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Frustrating delays at Crandall Canyon — Miner's call came hour after collapse
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High Tech Comes Late | 2:31 a.m. Aug. 28, 2007
I always wondered when the sophisticated technological rescue equipment would
show up. A few weeks late so it happens. Somehow I had puzzled over the
obvious absence of something that was readily available for NASA, bomb squads
the world over, Iraq. Instead for the past several weeks, Utah mining tragedy
was relegated to outdated, cumbersome television monitors. Only now almost as
an afterthought is a robot being used to investigate the cave-in and the fate of
the trapped miners. So much for the putting all the resources of the federal
mining agency at the ready...it's now like how long it takes for the United
States to build-up a military strike force overseas.
L. M. Benson | 7:26 a.m. Aug. 28, 2007
Did the miner's call come minutes after the collapse or an hour afterward?
The first two paragraphs of this article give conflicting information. The
Loveland Reporter-Hearald (Loveland, Colorado) states the first call was made at
3:47 am and the second call was made at 3:51 am. The mine owner and the
families of the miner's are suffering enough grief as it is awaiting news
about their loved ones. The news media should not add to their grief by
printing incorrect information.
dot | 8:28 a.m. Aug. 28, 2007
LM Benson
The story states that the first call was from the U's seismograph station apx one hour after the cave-in. Mineworkers called 911 four minutes after the seismograph station employees call came in. I hope that helps.
The story states that the first call was from the U's seismograph station apx one hour after the cave-in. Mineworkers called 911 four minutes after the seismograph station employees call came in. I hope that helps.
Comments continue below
melanie in wv | 8:51 a.m. Aug. 28, 2007
If they would have brought this robot in 3 weeks ago instead of messing around
with these measley bore holes, the miners might already be found. Or why not
call in the National Guard they could have helped too. This is so pathetic and
sad. They need sued. Still praying for miners and their families.
N. Smith | 8:57 a.m. Aug. 28, 2007
Media histeria. I would expect the mine officials to be doing everything they
can to get the miners out right after a collapse, not worrying about calling the
media or families. We should give them a break about this one. They were trying
to do everything they could with the information they had immediately after the
collapse. Trying to save their men should be first on their minds, not reporting
the incident.
NICK | 9:14 a.m. Aug. 28, 2007
Call in the National Guard? Enough of our soldiers are dying already and enough
people have lost their lives in this tradegy, too.
Anonymous | 10:34 a.m. Aug. 28, 2007
dot
Thanks for the clarification. I realized my mistake after I had posted my comment. I agree with N Smith's comments. I am sure the mine officials were doing everything in their power to get the miners out.
Thanks for the clarification. I realized my mistake after I had posted my comment. I agree with N Smith's comments. I am sure the mine officials were doing everything in their power to get the miners out.
C | 11:00 a.m. Aug. 28, 2007
As strange as this sounds, I think all the rain maybe helping by dissolving the
limestone which may help to settle the after shock activity within the mine to
make search efforts more stable.
J. Pearson | 11:34 a.m. Aug. 28, 2007
It's a tragedy. And these men risk their lives daily to provide for their
families doing hard, dirty work under the worst conditions possible. They are
committed to their jobs and to one another and should be given all possible
support, manpower, technological and the sincere love and appreciation of the
world at large. They perform a necessary but hazardous calling to benefit our
society yet they are relegated to the lower echelons of the society that they
serve both in pay and in standing. They need a standing ovation and all the
help this nation has to back them. Not the dragging of feet and talk instead of
action. God bless them and their families.
Anonymous | 11:47 a.m. Aug. 28, 2007
I don't think it matters what time the call came in at this point, what
would the ambulance have done but sit around.
Lyn | 12:10 p.m. Aug. 28, 2007
Melanie in WV...Do you understand that like firefighters and police officers,
our miners take their lives into their own hands each and every time they go
underground. This is why they are the highest paid in our area. I wonder who the
mysterious 'they' are that you refer to? The mine operator? The
federally regulated MSHA? Are you going to sue the mountain? Do you really think
it would be fair to sacrifice more of our military personell by sending them
underground? Look what happened to the trained professionals who went in to save
their 'brothers'. How many more families will you rob of Dads,
brothers, uncles.... Please remember, that the best of the best have been
gathered: this is a circumstance that has never been encountered before. I
truely believe that they are doing all that they can to safely resolve the
situation.
Anonymous | 1:08 p.m. Aug. 28, 2007
Biggest non-issue that could have been talked about. It's been three weeks,
what good would a call one hour earlier be.
Annonymous | 2:38 p.m. Aug. 28, 2007
With whatsoever ye judge, there ye shall be judged also. No man knoweth
another's heart. It seems to me that everyone and everything was done the
best they could for the best possible results. Peace.
wyo. miner | 2:48 p.m. Aug. 28, 2007
After Sago, MSHA made a rule that if you don't call within 15 minutes of
an accident they can fine you up to $60,000. As the readers have suggested,
there are normally other more pressing matters than notifying MSHA, like trying
to find out what happened.
Kyle | 2:49 p.m. Aug. 28, 2007
I like the way the Media has sensationalized this. Last night on the 10:00 news
they switched to a remote reporter who blurted out, "We have just learned
that the first call to 911 didn't come from the mine but from a
seismologist at the UofU"! She was all out of breath like she just
discovered this scoop and ran to the camera to report it.
1. I had read this same news this morning in the Des News (online). Why the news flash at 10:00?
2. Are they trying to make a big deal out of the 3 minute difference? Like the miners sat on their thumbs waiting for their friends to die or Mr Murray had all them tied up so they couldn't call 911?
What's the big deal? I think it's interesting that the guy at the U was mindefull enough to call in what he observed so I'm glad it was in the news, but don't try to sensationalize it and make it sound like those at the mine didn't do their best. Give them a break!
1. I had read this same news this morning in the Des News (online). Why the news flash at 10:00?
2. Are they trying to make a big deal out of the 3 minute difference? Like the miners sat on their thumbs waiting for their friends to die or Mr Murray had all them tied up so they couldn't call 911?
What's the big deal? I think it's interesting that the guy at the U was mindefull enough to call in what he observed so I'm glad it was in the news, but don't try to sensationalize it and make it sound like those at the mine didn't do their best. Give them a break!
C+ | 2:49 p.m. Aug. 28, 2007
Sorry, C - but the process you describe is measured in terms of
years/decades/centuries/millennia. A little bit of rain isn't going to
soften the limestone hundreds of feet below ground one bit.
Melanie in WV - your litigious attitude represents everything that is wrong in this country. You compound your offensive comments with abject ignorance of the procedures involved. Please pay attention: the "measley bore holes" is how they get the robot into the mine. Kinda hard to feed robots through bore holes, "measley" or not, that haven't been drilled.
Melanie in WV - your litigious attitude represents everything that is wrong in this country. You compound your offensive comments with abject ignorance of the procedures involved. Please pay attention: the "measley bore holes" is how they get the robot into the mine. Kinda hard to feed robots through bore holes, "measley" or not, that haven't been drilled.
annoyed | 2:52 p.m. Aug. 28, 2007
what earth quake? if there wasn't one why did they call at all? there
either was an earth quake or we need new peaple reading the eqipment in that
office? maybe msha was in charge of that too.
Anonymous | 3:12 p.m. Aug. 28, 2007
Its fifteen minutes from the time that the event is confirmed to surface
personel which can be a long time becouse men have to travel to the location and
then call the problem out in this case its a 30 minute drive by truck and
calling ems is not the first priority msha and mine rescue have to be called
first unless injured miners need to be taken to a hosp. even then its a 20 min.
drive from town and a 30 min. to get out of the mine.
Timing | 5:42 p.m. Aug. 28, 2007
As referenced...Time had to be taken to go thru the mine: (1)-Look to see if
& where there is any damage (multiple tunnels to check), (2)-If anybody is
missing (head-count after determining how many were supposed to be in that
section @ that particular time)...THEN call 9-1-1 b/c those will be questions
asked by 9-1-1---PLUS outside help still takes time to arrive...so an immediate
assessment NEEDS to be done...but it appears the mine did try the above but
still wasn't sure to they then did call 9-1-1. Do ppl realize how long it
takes to get down there AFTER you know "WHERE THERE IS" AND THEN back
up to phones? Given the circumstances...the time the call was made was pretty
good. Given the exact set of circumstances in this case there's Zero-chance
that a call made 45-minutes sooner would have prevented any of the 6 from
dieing.
I said when they made the "15-minute" rule that it was way too short for certain circumstances.
J.Pearson, I agree miners don't get respect from society they deserve but I still don't understand the misconception that miners are poorly paid...trust me I know better...it isn't Bill Gates or Pro-athlete $ but it sure isn't poverty wages either.
Melanie-in-WV, Folks may be able to sue the owner/co for the actual accident BUT not for the recovery efforts since the tactics were up to MSHA.
Also keep in mind that Murray was far-away in OH so he had nothing to do w/ the amt of time it took for the call to take place...that was the responsibility of the locals.
BTW, I find the pinata crap to be totally disrespectful/inappropriate/disgusting/revolting/appalling for someone who RISKED HIS LIFE in the rescue-attempts not to mention the $ being made from them. S-I-C-K.
I said when they made the "15-minute" rule that it was way too short for certain circumstances.
J.Pearson, I agree miners don't get respect from society they deserve but I still don't understand the misconception that miners are poorly paid...trust me I know better...it isn't Bill Gates or Pro-athlete $ but it sure isn't poverty wages either.
Melanie-in-WV, Folks may be able to sue the owner/co for the actual accident BUT not for the recovery efforts since the tactics were up to MSHA.
Also keep in mind that Murray was far-away in OH so he had nothing to do w/ the amt of time it took for the call to take place...that was the responsibility of the locals.
BTW, I find the pinata crap to be totally disrespectful/inappropriate/disgusting/revolting/appalling for someone who RISKED HIS LIFE in the rescue-attempts not to mention the $ being made from them. S-I-C-K.
Doug Barber | 6:02 p.m. Aug. 28, 2007
I've watched this story very closely from day one, and I have not seen any
neglect of effort to rescue the miners. I've criticized Mr. Murray's
tendency to always look on the bright side of life as it pertains to the way he
ran his mine *before* the accident. I have since been favorably impressed by his
decision to temporarily close his deepest Utah mine, though my favorable
impression was tempered by his previous effort to make that closure look like
a slap at Utah's governor.
As far as the robot goes, it's an experimental technology which would not have been first on the "do list" of anyone I've heard from. I would bet that the United Mine Workers of America, whom I support wholeheartedly, would be willing to stipulate that the robot wasn't something they had in mind. Its deployment is a last effort, not a sign that something which should have been tried on day one was neglected for three weeks.
As far as the robot goes, it's an experimental technology which would not have been first on the "do list" of anyone I've heard from. I would bet that the United Mine Workers of America, whom I support wholeheartedly, would be willing to stipulate that the robot wasn't something they had in mind. Its deployment is a last effort, not a sign that something which should have been tried on day one was neglected for three weeks.
A | 10:00 p.m. Aug. 28, 2007
melanie in wv,
Your frustration is understandable, and I'm sure is shared more than you know by the families of the trapped men. This is not a time to blurt out raw ideas of what you think should have been done. The National Guard does not include mine rescue in Basic Training last I checked, so they would have been under the command of MSHA just like everyone else.
If anyone has a plausable idea of how to get to 6 men that are trapped 1500-2000 feet beneath the mountain's surface, and approx. 3.4 miles from the mine entrance, I'm sure the officials in Crandall Canyon are all ears. Otherwise I believe the rescue methods are best left to the mining and geological experts. This mountain is obviously still "alive" as evidenced by the three rescuers it has taken already. This rescue effort does need to proceed very cautiously.
Congress will get to the bottom of what happened here, and Bob Murray and the heads of MSHA will get what's coming to them in the end. There's no need for the media to sensationalize this any more than they already have. It is a credible news story that we all need to pay attention to, but picking apart 911 records in the hours after the collapse accomplishes nothing, unless someone thinks the Emery County Fire Department would have been able to single-handedly dig these guys out in a matter of minutes. I really hope nobody thinks that.
Your frustration is understandable, and I'm sure is shared more than you know by the families of the trapped men. This is not a time to blurt out raw ideas of what you think should have been done. The National Guard does not include mine rescue in Basic Training last I checked, so they would have been under the command of MSHA just like everyone else.
If anyone has a plausable idea of how to get to 6 men that are trapped 1500-2000 feet beneath the mountain's surface, and approx. 3.4 miles from the mine entrance, I'm sure the officials in Crandall Canyon are all ears. Otherwise I believe the rescue methods are best left to the mining and geological experts. This mountain is obviously still "alive" as evidenced by the three rescuers it has taken already. This rescue effort does need to proceed very cautiously.
Congress will get to the bottom of what happened here, and Bob Murray and the heads of MSHA will get what's coming to them in the end. There's no need for the media to sensationalize this any more than they already have. It is a credible news story that we all need to pay attention to, but picking apart 911 records in the hours after the collapse accomplishes nothing, unless someone thinks the Emery County Fire Department would have been able to single-handedly dig these guys out in a matter of minutes. I really hope nobody thinks that.
Heros daughter | 3:43 p.m. Sept. 14, 2007
MSHA Is always going to give fines because they just want money but they never
go back and see if problems have been fixed. It was up to them to make sure the
mine was safe befor the first cave in, and their duty to reconize unsafe
conditions, after as well. If they had done their job The Three Would Be Alive.
Dont worry about when they called worry about the activity that showed up at the
University. Please see what is in front of you. Bless my dad and the others
miners may they be with god.
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Attorney Colin King talks to Martha Sanchez, wife of missing miner Manual Sanchez, after a briefing on Monday.
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