Deseret News | Reader comments: Excerpts from "September Dawn" reviews

Reader comments
Excerpts from "September Dawn" reviews

september dawn | 8:45 p.m. Aug. 25, 2007

We loved the film, being well acquainted with the territory photography, the many books of the mormons and their prophet and his crimes in the midwest. So this was just a continuation with the succeeding prophet of the Mormons! Obviously, none of the commentators read Mark Twain who told the story well in his book, published 1890. Just because it is a shameful atrocity of a religiow zealot and his enforcers, Brother Brigham Young is a shameful chapter in the mormons and Americans History. Perhaps some of the commentators should read the "Utah War" by Bancroft and a few other REAL American History books instead of the flimsy history in public schools we wouldn't dare send our children to. Shame on the commentators and Hooray for Cain and his cast of Americans who dare to tell the truth of a blood bath in Utah in 1857 of a fine group from Arkansas in a 40 Wagon Train and over 100 herd of Prize cattle, gold, their own physician, buggys and everything to sustain them but water and grain for thier cattle. More movies like this one PLEASE.

yawn | 9:14 p.m. Aug. 25, 2007

I just couldn't get over the horrific acting of General Zod. If anything, this movie was so bad it made his Zod performance great!

September eve | 9:27 p.m. Aug. 25, 2007

I guess the first commentator loves rape, murder, arson, robbery, mobs, government corruption, and the breach of the Constitution of the United States. I guess he/she also loved the Holocaust. Because these are the documented things (in the annals of the States of Illinois, Missouri, Ohio, New York, and Congress) that happened to the Mormons in other places they lived. He/she must be "Christian" because they call themselves followers of Jesus Christ and then support the bashing out of the brains of little boys such as happened at Haun's Mill, Missouri, and the rapes of women and children such as happened all over the place to the Mormons by Christian ministers, teamed up with judges, soldiers, and county clerks.

This movie, and the comments of people like "September Dawn" will only generate more interest in the Mormons and their doctrine, because reasonable will only think "Gee. I need to learn for myself, and not learn from some Hollywood movie."

Comments continue below

Bot | 4:08 a.m. Aug. 26, 2007

The fact that Mr. Cain is a "born-again Christian" says it all. He's anxious to produce anything which might disparage Mormonism in an election year.

A little context (Brigham Young sent a message to allow the Arkansas settlers safe passage, Parley P. Pratt's assassination in Arkansas, the Haun's Mill Massacre, etc.) would have redeemed an otherwise film to be relegated to the trash bin.

Ensign | 8:43 a.m. Aug. 26, 2007

The latest Ensign explains what happened on SEPT 11, 1857. The movie is just out making up stuff to make money.

CJ | 9:09 a.m. Aug. 26, 2007

Yawn!

Emmaline | 10:48 a.m. Aug. 26, 2007

Who brought Cain (isn't that an appropriate name?) out of retirement to do this? During presidential campaigning time with a Mormon in the campaign? Why doesn't Cain balance this film with another about the persecution of the Mormons? Cain's film is fictionalization at its best.

Perilous | 10:50 a.m. Aug. 26, 2007

I think it is very interesting that a movie such as this would be released this year. Mormons get very little attention on the whole. I am sure that anything negative that can be dug up will be in this election year. Mitt for good or for bad is a Mormon and so will call attention by those wanting to control the electorate bye spreading lies and falsehoods. It would be telling to know who financed the film............REALLY. I'm sure that won't happen.

Anonymous | 1:12 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007

As I have loved you, love one another. This new commandment, love one another. By this shall men know, ye are my disciples. If ye have love one to another.
This is a song that we teach to our primary children and a lesson that we should keep in our hearts as adults, if we profess to be disciples of christ.
This movie is inaccurate, does not tell the whole story and from what we read by the critics is not well made. The attack was motivated by fear. It is funny that we live in a country founded on freedom and yet attack those who do not believe the same as we do. Learn from the past, love your neighbor, what is to be accomplished by acting like a bully.

Daniel S. | 1:21 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007

Historical accuracy is always difficult when it comes to religion. No matter what evidence is available, it can be ignored or twisted because of the strong passions on either side. Some scholars claim, for example, that the letter from Brigham Young specifically ordering safe passage for all wagon trains contained "covert orders" for the exact opposite. Whether President Young knew of the massacre beforehand must, officially, remain a "maybe" because of compelling arguments for either side, and that is something that LDS members are just going to have to accept.

I'm actually glad for the Church that such movies are being made; too many LDS refuse to learn about any negative events connected with the Church, which only reinforces the idea of the LDS Church as a cult. We should learn about these events from the PoV of both sides so we can make intelligent conversation whenever the subject is raised instead of just replying, "I don't know anything about it, but it didn't happen that way!"

Judging from the reviews, however, this movie doesn't seem to qualify as intelligent conversation. Try Wikipedia or something instead.

Sue | 6:31 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007

How about producing a movie about the horrible things that were done to the mormons?That's okay because you're just hurting yourself. God will deal with you in his own way. We cannot help what happened in the past.Mormons are the most christ-
like people I have ever met.

Yul S. | 12:18 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007

This movie and other anti mormon propagandas are evidences that Satan is so desperate in trying to destroy the church of LDS, their leaders, and their values. They will do everything in their power to create hatred against people who are living decent lives, non smokers, non drinkers, chaste, who fast and pray and help people of all races, religion and creeds in their times of need. The only truth shown in the movie September Dawn is the massacre of 120 men, women and children, by a few mormons. But I do not believe that Brigham Young ever ordered the massacre or at least instigated it. I know that the leaders of the LDS church from Joseph Smith to Gordon B Hinkley are all men of righteousness. If you don't believe me go see the present LDS prophet. Just by looking at him from a distant, you can tell he is a righteos man and a prophet, and much more when he speaks and advises all men to live better and righteos lives. So what is Cain's real agenda, being an evangelical Christian? I don't wonder about it.. because a lot of professed Christian religions have anti mormon stuff in their gospel teaching. they ran out of their own doctrines, so let's bash the "bad mormons".

Bob Powelson | 3:05 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007

The Evangelicals who produce such drivel over-reached on this one. The Mountain Meadows Massacre is not one of the sining moments in LDS history, nor is this cheap polemic a shining moment of movie production.

It will give the haters of few moments of self gratification and solidify their deepest fears about Mormons amd thier church. It does leave me with the question: "Are Evangelicals Christian?" By thier fruits ye shall know them, and by the fruits produced by this movie it would appear that many of them are not Christian.

TLW | 7:08 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007

It's sad and unfortunate, but nontheless true. No matter what anyone says or does, no matter what documented history shows, there will always be people who have strong negative feelings toward The Church of Jesus Chirst of Latter-day Saints [also known as LDS or mormons] because people in general don't really understand the doctrine and beliefs of the church. And histoy bears record time and again that people fear what they don't understand.

Additionally, most people who claim to supposedly "know the truth" about the LDS church are usually people who themselves have been members who either had a bad experience with another person who is simply human and made a mistake, or they made choices contrary to the gospel, and as a result they spend their time and efforts trying to bring down the LDS church as a means of vengence.

Barry | 7:32 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007

When the Lord walked the earth He was heavily persecuted and so is His church today. Let Him decide who Christains are.

Craig | 8:09 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007

I like movies like this. There's an old saying that goes like this: "I don't care what you say about me as long as you mention my name." Movies like this are so ridiculous and stupid it is actually a paid for advertisement for the Mormons and Mitt Romney. Romney's popularity will increase and more people will join the Mormon church. Now that's the truth!

hurbie | 9:21 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007

What a joke,
I can't say what I think, because reading below this comment box, it ststes I must not send anything
that is abusive, offensive, your reader comments
must be to your liking or not at all. wise up.....

John B | 10:48 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007

As a member of the LDS Church, I'm not really bothered by this film. In some ways, I have come to expect it. Why is it such a shock that a few isolated, misguided and fear-filled members of my church lost their minds and committed murder given the cruel and bitter persecution they had suffered in the recent past? There were rumors at the time that people would come from back east to drive us from our homes again or rape and murder us as they had in Missouri and Illinois. One of our leaders had recently been murdered in Arkansas and the federal government was bearing down on us too (So much for giving us your tired and your poor). Despite the persecution, we remained loyal to the Constitution of the United States and even served in the military during the Mexican-American War.

Our persecution and suffering doesn't make what those people at Mountain Meadows did justifiable, but it should make it understandable when you put it in context. It represented a low point in our history, but I don't judge an entire people by the actions of a few, whether my own or someone else's. Mr. Cain and his cast have unwittingly demonstrated the very fear and bigotry that they proclaim to be against. Thankfully, it was expressed with such low quality movie-making and in such poor taste that people can see it coming a mile away.

Jay | 11:46 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007

I recommend those who review and criticise the "September Dawn" movie to check out the documentary DVD "Burying the Past" by Brian Patrick on this subject.

No organisation or faith should hide away the past, at the end of the day Only ONE PERSON will Judge!

Steve | 1:26 p.m. Aug. 27, 2007

I get so tired of hearing this argument: ï¿½Anyone who has left the LDS Church must have made choices contrary to the gospel and therefore they hate the church.ï¿½ That is so trite and hackneyed. Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps some people who have left the church have done it for legitimate reasons? I am not an anti-Mormon, but Iï¿½m certainly not an anti-Thinker, either...

Rui Ruz Caputi -SP/Brasil | 4:56 p.m. Aug. 27, 2007

Lamentamos profundamente que pessoas de nossa fï¿½, tenham cometido tamanhas atrocidades. Temos que analisar todo o ocorrido pelo contexto da guerra de Utah, o mï¿½rtirio do profeta, de Parley P. Prat, e todo o boato que corria em torno da caravana de Arkansas. A mais completa verdade dos fatos jamais iremos descobrir aqui.

AmazingGrace | 1:03 p.m. Aug. 28, 2007

Bravo, Steve! It's not a matter of people leaving the Mormon church because of one bad experience or a mistake made or even making choices outside of the "gospel"....it's a matter of waking up out of a Mormon-fed comatose state, due to the beautiful grace of God, and TRULY understanding what it means to be a Christian. Although the acts presented, and somewhat embellished upon, in the movie "September Dawn" are not a representation of the modern day Mormon, the point still stands that the teachings and doctrines of the Mormon faith are widely considered "cult" activities. Why? A quick synopsis: elitist mentality (ONLY Mormons will go to heaven), mind-controlling (church leadership dictates every aspect of members' lives), isolation (not allowing members to be educated about other faiths), secret temple rituals (the house of God should never be denied to anyone). I, as a true Christian, pray for all Mormons that they will truly see the beautiful light and love of God...and I also believe that God will forgive them for being led astray.

Poncho | 7:14 p.m. Aug. 28, 2007

Wow...glad I don't go to one of those cult Mormon churches that AmazingGrace knows all about. Out here in California, Mormons are actually taught that all good people will receive their reward (our Gospel Doctrine teacher is going down!). And my bishop doesn't show up on Sunday "dictating" to make sure I'm not watching TV or listening to the Allman Brothers Band (I'd be ex'd for sure!). I even get to read and learn about other religions if I want...although I'm probably being spied on by my home teacher. I did read somewhere (likeï¿½the Bible!) that sacred areas of the temple have restrictions to the general public. But there are no longer any ï¿½secretsï¿½. Many have done much to make sure the ï¿½secretsï¿½ of the temple are made public. It must be a secret elsewhere that you can go through Mormon temples prior to dedication if interestedï¿½but I guess itï¿½s no fun unless you can tease people as they worship, or better yet, by their choice of attire.

Iï¿½m comforted knowing that there are humble "true Christians" like AG praying for me as they simultaneously belittle and disrespect my beliefs (THAT is quite a talentï¿½love and hate in the same breath!)...please pray that I'll come out of this "coma" I'm in that has fooled me into being happy after many years of trying to destroy myself. Iï¿½m just dying to be miserable again.

Oh yeahï¿½the Mountain Meadows Massacre. The God Iï¿½ve learned to know will judge everyone perfectly, and he doesnï¿½t even need to speculate on Brighamï¿½s role (Iï¿½m sure He heard the whole thing!). The actual guilty will actually be punishedï¿½what a thought! Just hope He doesnï¿½t get slowed down too much by the HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of deaths from the hands of ï¿½Christian Crusadersï¿½ throughout history.

average viewer | 7:42 p.m. Aug. 28, 2007

Powerful performances by well-knowns and newcomers propel the story of this horrible, tragic event. The damage that results when religious delusion meets blind obedience is starkly laid out on the screen, under the tight direction of Christopher Cain. This is a movie that doesn't end in the theater, and invites further personal investigation. Telling a story many don't want told is a courageous undertaking, particularly with the solid writing and effective location ambiance in this movie. 4 stars out of 5mrdogted

Tom Wall | 1:49 p.m. Aug. 29, 2007

He said the militia would safely escort them past the Indians and back to Cedar City, but they must leave their possessions behind and give up their weapons, signaling their peaceful intentions to the Indians. The emigrants debated what to do but in the end accepted the terms, seeing no better alternative. The procession marched for a mile or so until, at a prearranged signal, each militiaman turned and shot the emigrant next to him, while Indians rushed from their hiding place to attack the terrified women and children. Militiamen with the two front-running wagons murdered the wounded.Communicationï¿½Too LatePresident Youngï¿½s express message of reply to Haight, dated September 10, arrived in Cedar City two days after the massacre. His letter reported recent news that no U.S. troops would be able to reach the territory before winter. ï¿½So you see that the Lord has answered our prayers and again averted the blow designed for our heads,ï¿½ he wrote.ï¿½In regard to emigration trains passing through our settlements,ï¿½ Young continued, ï¿½we must not interfere with them untill they are first notified to keep away. You must not meddle with them. The Indians we expect will do as they please but you should try and preserve good feelings with them. There are no other trains going south that I know of[.] [I]f those who are there will leave let them go in peace. While we should be on the alert, on hand and always ready we should also possess ourselves in patience, preserving ourselves and property ever remembering that God rules.When Haight read Youngï¿½s words, he sobbed like a child and could manage only the words, ï¿½Too late, too late.

Tony | 12:09 p.m. Aug. 30, 2007

For history, "September Dawn" is a waste of time. For entertainment, better to stay away. For calculated and biased outrage, it is the pick of the year. Some Evangelicals and others have a burr in their trousers for the Mormons. Curious the film chooses to criticize the Mormons for judging the Fancher party's "sins" (motes and beams, etc.) when the film is guilty of its own judgments and lies.

Non-Mormon Christian tradition has its own shady moments as it was not the Mormons who burned witches at Salem, nor justified slavery, nor murdered and burned whole Indian villages, nor hunted down and exterminated a whole religion from the State of Missouri. We all have much in our past to reckon with and Mountain Meadows and what happened there is a Mormon burden. Fortunately, one has to go 150 years back to find anything like it in Mormon history, if only it was true of others.

Tom | 1:10 a.m. Aug. 31, 2007

Touche Tony. Touche!!!

September Afternoon | 8:31 a.m. Aug. 31, 2007

Thanks Poncho for giving Amazing Grace a taste of her/his own hateful anti-LDS rhetoric.

Hard to believe that our loving God has appointed such hate-filled and spiteful evangelical "Christians" as His spokesmen and judges here on earth. Or have they in their arrogance simply assumed this role unto themselves?

Shame on you Amazing Grace. Put away that WWJD bracelet you wear-as your hypocrisy is blinding.

Hope you soon can find the repentance and grace of God that we all so desperately seek

September Afternoon | 11:20 a.m. Aug. 31, 2007

Anonymous | 1:39 p.m. Aug. 31, 2007

All of this controversy would go away if the LDS Church would just stand up and take responsibility for this horrible tragedy! We all know that today's Mormons did not have anything to do with this atrocity, but they know, that their early church leaders were responsible for this horrific event!

I am a Catholic, and am finally happy to see the Catholic Church STAND UP and take responsibility for all the harm done by the clergy to children for hundreds of years.

I saw the movie and loved it! It should be seen by EVERYONE!

Poncho | 4:57 p.m. Aug. 31, 2007

The Catholic Church never stood up...they were forced to stand up. There is little if any comparison between the two. LDS leaders for years have acknowledged the horrifying roles of the local leaders in Southern Utah...who were appropriately excommunicated or punished by lawï¿½BEFORE they died. What everyone wants is a ï¿½confessionï¿½ that Brigham Young "ordered" the massacre like September Dawn FULLY portrays as historical fact. I can't tell you what LDS leaders would do even if he had, however the facts are there doesn't exist one shred of evidence that he did. Not a shred...only very stretched and speculative opinion. Itï¿½s like saying the Pope ordered a full scale cover up of young men being victimized by pedophile priests. I personally donï¿½t believe that either! Both churches (or their leaders) are responsible of trying to keep these events out of ï¿½the pressï¿½. (Sounds like the White Houseï¿½no matter the administration)

This will never go away...just like the supposed gold digging, salamander visions, accusations of rape, and con-artistry of Joseph Smith never will. Unfortunately, the Catholic Church will answer for years what a small minority of priest caused. All of it may be unfair...but those who desire to hang on the past will always have plenty of Mountain Meadows massacres to exploit.

David King | 10:11 a.m. Sept. 3, 2007

Does Tom Wall have a source for Young's letter?

Looks like a neutral third party should really make a film exploring both sides of the actual history of this event.

No amount of finger pointing or revisionism can remove the horror of 120 people dying but a sincere exploration of WHY it happened would be valueable.

Too bad September Dawn was not that.

Jay | 11:46 a.m. Sept. 6, 2007

Poncho - I'm glad that you don't go to a Cult Mormon Church and that your Bishop does not dictate to you. Many of my Best Friends are members of The LDS Church and I respect them also.

But your Church does claim! to be the only True Church Today as a committed Anglican Christian with a strong faith I find that most Offensive!

I hope out of the movie with come reconciliation from Parties concerned over the Land that The Mountain Meadows Massacre took place on. It is owned by the LDS Church and I admire that it has been cared for more these last few years with work on the site, but the time is now right for it to be shared equally with the Official Descendants and the bodies that represent them.

BJ | 9:25 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

In response to the individual who references Mark Twain's book as being a source of facts:

Mark Twain, when trying to drum up some needed resources, wrote a number of "revealing" things about Mormons. In one story, he tells of a young woman supposedly jumping from the top of the Salt Lake Temple into the Great Salt Lake to preserve her virtue. A remarkable accomplishment, considering the Great Salt Lake was several miles away from the temple! When asked why he was writing articles about Mormons that were obviously fictional be replied, "Because it sells!" Be careful where you look for the truth.

Joann | 2:49 p.m. Sept. 17, 2007

Everyone has a different opinion about this movie. especially the mormans. But the wierdest thing is... Why did this movie dissappear off the screen after only being in the theaters for only 2 weeks. If it isn't true why would the mormans make it disappear? That is the question we should be asking.

Steve | 1:20 a.m. Sept. 19, 2007

Joann, it "disappeared" because nobody was going to see it. Please. Do you think the Mormons have the power to make things disappear and appear depending on their wishes? It's amazing this movie didn't go direct to DVD. It is awful.

Rosie | 7:15 p.m. Oct. 14, 2007

I am very disappointed with this film. It is one of the worst films that I have ever seen in a very long time. It's completely a one sided view of Mormonism from an anti-Mormon view. I kept waiting for some real historical events to show up besides the creepy MMM...which I had read about in books. I had a problem with the reversed roles of the people in the movie. The Arkansas group looked more like the Mormons and the Mormons looked more like Hillbillies. How did Mr Cain come about this? Where did he get his information? To tell you the truth, I saw nothing in this movie that reminded me in any way shape or form of the Mormon people. I love history, but this movie is not history. Perhaps next time there is a movie about Mormons, the producers will get their information from Mormons, and not from anti-Mormon haters. I give this movie less than 3- 000. I feel sad that the MMM ever happened. I also feel sad for the descendants of both sides. It must be hard for the Mormons of today who descend down from these Mormons. I'm sorry for all!

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