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Smith descendant seeks end to familial Young-Smith enmity spanning 150 years
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mom | 10:23 a.m. Aug. 24, 2007
I had the pleasure of meeting this lovely lady this week. She has a beautiful
serenity. Tears flowed just thinking that she is a direct descendant of Joseph
and his lovely Emma.
Anonymous | 11:24 a.m. Aug. 24, 2007
This is the kind of thing that gangs and feuds are based on. "My
great-grandfather hated your great-grandmother, so therefore I hate you."
Get over it! It's nice that olive branches are being extended, but
honestly, what authority did Emma have to say who should lead the Church? None.
150 years later, if descendants are still upset about this, they need to get a
hobby.
PrayingForMiners | 12:06 p.m. Aug. 24, 2007
Wow, Mrs. Jones will definitely have a special place, a mansion of mansions,
reserved just for her in heaven for ending this feud. All is well, all is
well!!!
Comments continue below
Mk | 1:38 p.m. Aug. 24, 2007
It does not matter if Emma had authority or not to decide who should lead the
church. What should matter was that she was one of the most remarkable women to
ever live on this earth and she was human, with human emotions and feelings.In
life she had to share her husband and also in death. As church members we are
used to that now, she was not. If anyone had a right to "loose it" it
was Emma. The fact that she held it together as long as she did is a credit to
her. The church was a link for her to Joseph, of course she would feel it should
stay in her family, she was grieving for heavens sake. cut her some slack. Hurt
often takes time to go away and for those we love so dearly, it may take
generations, That these families are trying to deal with the hurt is admirable
and our prayers should be with them. Prophet or not, Brigham Young was very
insensitive, but he too was human, and he too, one of the most remarkable to
ever walk the earth.
Eutrepismus | 12:08 p.m. Aug. 25, 2007
There is great significance in the fact that it was a descendant of Joseph and
Emma Smith who initiated the contact and resolution, rather than one of Brigham
Young's more numerous descendants.
It's tragic that some people view this as a "my side has more authority than your side" issue. The social and yes political factors disrupting the church in the 1840s were complex. Simplistic views of who was right and who was wrong displays a grand ignorance of those factors and the many alternative possible solutions presented to solve the serious multi-directional rupture and diaspora that Mormons suffered following the deaths of both Joseph and Hyrum.
The Smiths mistrusted Brigham Young, and rightly so. Brigham Young disparaged and slandered the Smiths who refused to follow him. When he could have chosen Joseph's uncle or son or another Smith, he instead "ordained" his own immature son to be an apostle, simultaneously denying the principle of prophetic descent that everyone, including Young himself, accepted to that time.
The two families' social reunion is a great blessing to the families. For this to have any affect on any church must depend on sincere, official apologies and a very serious reexamination of the beliefs and lack of forgiveness that allowed this gruesome bitterness to fester for over a century and a half.
It's tragic that some people view this as a "my side has more authority than your side" issue. The social and yes political factors disrupting the church in the 1840s were complex. Simplistic views of who was right and who was wrong displays a grand ignorance of those factors and the many alternative possible solutions presented to solve the serious multi-directional rupture and diaspora that Mormons suffered following the deaths of both Joseph and Hyrum.
The Smiths mistrusted Brigham Young, and rightly so. Brigham Young disparaged and slandered the Smiths who refused to follow him. When he could have chosen Joseph's uncle or son or another Smith, he instead "ordained" his own immature son to be an apostle, simultaneously denying the principle of prophetic descent that everyone, including Young himself, accepted to that time.
The two families' social reunion is a great blessing to the families. For this to have any affect on any church must depend on sincere, official apologies and a very serious reexamination of the beliefs and lack of forgiveness that allowed this gruesome bitterness to fester for over a century and a half.
Aragon | 1:02 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007
I bet Joseph Smith and Brigham Young are looking at their decendants at this
very moment and said to each other, "our silly decendants."
Move Forward | 1:16 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007
Nice posts by Mk and Eutrepismus. This is great to see both families stepping
up to patch up a very old and unfortunate falling out. The years after
Joseph's death were hard on Emma and Brigham and everyone else, and
everyone is better off to just forgive Brigham and Emma for their mistakes and
move forward. People will never leave the relationship between these two alone
because it's interesting history, but it'd help if a dozen (or a
hundred) positive facts about Emma and Brigham could be mentioned alongside with
each mistake they made. They were both remarkable people and history should
recognize them as such.
It makes sense for both families and both faiths to forgive and forget -- in the end, that's the whole point of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. End the criticism of each other, forgive and forget, and move forward. I hope both families can accomplish this.
It makes sense for both families and both faiths to forgive and forget -- in the end, that's the whole point of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. End the criticism of each other, forgive and forget, and move forward. I hope both families can accomplish this.
Riley | 1:17 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007
I'm not sure I understand. Joseph Smith had about 40 wives. Are they saying
Gracia Jones is Smith's ONLY descendant to join the LDS Church, or that she
is the only descendant of the Jospeh/Emma marriage to join? Surely some of his
other descendant's made the journey west, no?
YareEupisstatme | 3:34 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007
OK then. Eutrepismus has proof that over 150 years no Young desendant tried to
reconcile with the Smiths, but failed. Whadda great historian.Not that I approve
of one side over the other, but as you are making your 'claims', why
not mention that there has only been one President of the LDS church with the
last name of Young. How many Smiths?
Rosella | 4:49 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007
The healing process had already started in 2005 during the bicentennial
celebrations of the birth of Joseph Smith, when both groups got together in
Sydney Australia. There was a great spirit of unity present.
Were you aware that approximately one third of Joseph Smith's direct descendants ( over 300 ) are Australians? Inez Smith daughter of Alexander Hale Smith, and grandaughter to the Prophet, married Sidney Wright of Australia. Sidney took his bride back to Australia where they had 10 children and were most prolific in helping to populate the country.
During our mission experience we had the pleasure of interviewing and photographing the great great grandson of Joseph Smith (Max Wright) in New South Wales, who bears a most striking resemblance to the Prophet. Although to our knowledge none of the Australian descendants are members of the Church they are great people --- most honest and trustworthy.
Were you aware that approximately one third of Joseph Smith's direct descendants ( over 300 ) are Australians? Inez Smith daughter of Alexander Hale Smith, and grandaughter to the Prophet, married Sidney Wright of Australia. Sidney took his bride back to Australia where they had 10 children and were most prolific in helping to populate the country.
During our mission experience we had the pleasure of interviewing and photographing the great great grandson of Joseph Smith (Max Wright) in New South Wales, who bears a most striking resemblance to the Prophet. Although to our knowledge none of the Australian descendants are members of the Church they are great people --- most honest and trustworthy.
Lightly | 7:08 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007
Dear Riley,
Joseph Smith only fathered children with Emma. All of his descendants come through Emma, and Gracia Jones was the very first descendant to be baptized after the Saints went west.
Gracia's children and grandchildren are members, but still there are relatively few members that are related to Joseph Smith.
Joseph Smith only fathered children with Emma. All of his descendants come through Emma, and Gracia Jones was the very first descendant to be baptized after the Saints went west.
Gracia's children and grandchildren are members, but still there are relatively few members that are related to Joseph Smith.
JCH | 7:10 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007
"Martrydom"? Is that what an objective reporter calls it?
JB | 7:26 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007
In response to Riley: Joseph Smith did have plural wives (about 34 is the
generally accepted number), but it has never been proved conclusively that he
had children with any of these. Smith only really started taking plural wives in
1841, just 3 yrs. before he died. Consequently, Joseph's only known
descendants, his children with Emma, were separated from the main body of the
Church until Gracia Jones was baptized. She is not the only Smith descendant who
has joined the Church, but she is the first descendant to come back to the
Church; other descendants of Joseph and Emma have since joined.
The Smiths that made the journey west were descendants of Hyrum Smith and John Smith, the Prophet's uncle. For more info on Joseph Smith's plural wives see Bushman's "Rough Stone Rolling" and Todd Compton's "In Sacred Loneliness."
The Smiths that made the journey west were descendants of Hyrum Smith and John Smith, the Prophet's uncle. For more info on Joseph Smith's plural wives see Bushman's "Rough Stone Rolling" and Todd Compton's "In Sacred Loneliness."
David Smith | 7:35 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007
I was once asked by a historian who knew very well the enmity between Brigham
and Emma and how Brigham had treated her boys, "So what is it like being a
Smith in a church run by the Youngs?"
I replied that back in the day when there was a drug store lunch counter across the street from Temple Square I could have gone in there and mentioned my Smith name and gotten a cup of coffee for 25 cents. I suppose now, after this reconciliation, the same would hold true at any SLC Starbucks, except that it would cost $4.25.
I replied that back in the day when there was a drug store lunch counter across the street from Temple Square I could have gone in there and mentioned my Smith name and gotten a cup of coffee for 25 cents. I suppose now, after this reconciliation, the same would hold true at any SLC Starbucks, except that it would cost $4.25.
ATL | 7:40 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007
YareEupisstatme, Joseph F. Smith, George Alber Smith, and Joseph Fielding Smith
are descendents of Hyrum, not Joseph.
JCH, what do you know about reporting? And what do you know about "martyrdom"?
JCH, what do you know about reporting? And what do you know about "martyrdom"?
David | 7:43 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007
Yes Martrydom, JCH that is objective!
Brad | 7:57 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007
I think Joseph and Brigham are looking down and chuckling! As for the martyrdom
comment... the state of Illinois lists his death as a Murder.
Ragnar Engebretsen | 8:14 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007
The Gospel is either true, or it is not. The animosty add nothing to the
matter. Pray and ask the Holy Ghost to tell you. Live in peace with your
conscience.
JST | 8:21 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007
Lightly (3 posts above):
You say Joseph Smith did not father children with anyone except Emma. Are you sure? How have you concluded that? I am curious because of an ancestor of my wife who appears to come from a plural wife of Joseph Smith.
You say Joseph Smith did not father children with anyone except Emma. Are you sure? How have you concluded that? I am curious because of an ancestor of my wife who appears to come from a plural wife of Joseph Smith.
Lynn H. | 8:30 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007
I've always felt it sad and ironic that President Joseph Smith for so long
was without family in the Church. I read with interest of any and all small
steps toward gathering them to him and Sister Smith.
Shauna | 9:10 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007
I think this is great. I got to listen to her the first time she did the
presentation at education week. I still love the memory of meeting her and
learning something I didn't know about her. I think we could all learn
something from this and forgive everybody that has hurt us by words or other
means. I will never forget that lessson.
utahkeith | 9:41 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007
First off, I would love to know where JST gets his info that he didn't?
Secondly, I think this is marvelous, and I have a couple of books about Emma
which mention her longing to be with the saints the rest of her life. True,
Brigham and She didn't always see eye to eye, but the differences where
"Church" differences mostly, they both love the Prophet very much.
Joseph the III asked some very pointed and deliberate questions to her trying to
prove his father a "fallen prophet" as an attourney, which he failed
to do. Emma was encouraged almost her whole life to come to the Valley of the
Great Salt Lake, but she refused while Brigham still lived because of their
differences and "pride" issues. Although he promised she would want
for nothing. Lucy Mack Smith stayed behind because she would not leave her
son's widow. She maintained contact with the church her entire life.
Emma's 2nd marriage to an alcoholic really made her appreciate what she had
in the prophet, and when he died, she still chose to remain in Nauvoo. In spite
of what LDS people may know or not know about her, she was an "elect
lady" as we are told in the D&C! Anyone who thinks differently, or less
of her, needs to get the whole story of her life. It was hard and rough, being
the wife of the prophet was not an easy thing for her, and she suffered greatly
as well.
marty | 9:51 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007
ATL, George Albert Smith is not a descendent of Hyrum. He was the son of John
Henry Smith (counselor to Joseph F. Smith) who was the son of George A. Smith,
cousin to the Prophet and counselor to Brigham. George A.'s father was the
firt patriarch, John Smith, Joseph sr.'s brother.
John Smith and George A. Smith and their families followed Brigham to the valley. George A. entered the valley with the vanguard company on July 22.
John Smith and George A. Smith and their families followed Brigham to the valley. George A. entered the valley with the vanguard company on July 22.
Dean | 10:05 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007
I think that some of you should leave the "expert advice" and
"accurate history" to experts and historians. You shouldn't say
things unless you KNOW them to be true, otherwise you may give someone false
views about something that could change their lives. As for this article, I
think it's wonderful that somebody has finally tried to make amends. I
think that their ancestors are both very relieved and happy about these steps
that are being taken.
Mike | 10:07 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007
Now if we can somehow reconcile the rift between descendants of Jacob and Esau,
the whole world will be a better place.
Raymond Takashi Swenson | 10:15 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007
George Albert Smith, President of the LDS Church from 1945-52, was grandson of
George A. Smith, a cousin of prophet Joseph Smith Jr. and apostle who followed
Brigham Young and the Latter-day Saints to Utah.
Hyrum Smith, Joseph's brother, co-president, and fellow martyr, left a widow, Mary Fielding Smith, and son Joseph Fielding, about age 5. They traveled west as pioneers. Joseph F. was ordained an apostle by Brigham Young, counselor to Brigham Young and his successors, and President of the LDS Church from 1901 to his death in 1918. He purchased the Smith farm, Sacred Grove and Hill Cumorah and built a monument to his uncle, the Prophet, at his birthplace on his 100th birthday in 1905. His son Joseph Fielding Smith became president in 1971 after many decades as an apostle.
Joseph Smith Jr.'s uncle John Smith was ordained as the Church Patriarch, and his grandson Hyrum G. Smith (still living) was the last person to serve in that position.
Thus, there are many members of the LDS Church today who are descendants of Joseph Smith Sr. and his brothers. Their ancestors sustained Brigham Young as successor to Joseph Smith Jr. and were among the pioneers of Utah.
The church that J. Smith III led has changed its name to "Community of Christ" and abandoned not only descent from Smith as a qualification for leadership but also abandoned belief in Smith as a prophet and the Book of Mormon as scripture as requirements for its members. Ironically, Joseph Smith Jr. is far more honored in the LDS Church than he is by the church once led by his sons and grandsons.
If Emma Smith had chosen to emigrate west, she and her children would doubtless have been honored like the rest of the Smith family.
Hyrum Smith, Joseph's brother, co-president, and fellow martyr, left a widow, Mary Fielding Smith, and son Joseph Fielding, about age 5. They traveled west as pioneers. Joseph F. was ordained an apostle by Brigham Young, counselor to Brigham Young and his successors, and President of the LDS Church from 1901 to his death in 1918. He purchased the Smith farm, Sacred Grove and Hill Cumorah and built a monument to his uncle, the Prophet, at his birthplace on his 100th birthday in 1905. His son Joseph Fielding Smith became president in 1971 after many decades as an apostle.
Joseph Smith Jr.'s uncle John Smith was ordained as the Church Patriarch, and his grandson Hyrum G. Smith (still living) was the last person to serve in that position.
Thus, there are many members of the LDS Church today who are descendants of Joseph Smith Sr. and his brothers. Their ancestors sustained Brigham Young as successor to Joseph Smith Jr. and were among the pioneers of Utah.
The church that J. Smith III led has changed its name to "Community of Christ" and abandoned not only descent from Smith as a qualification for leadership but also abandoned belief in Smith as a prophet and the Book of Mormon as scripture as requirements for its members. Ironically, Joseph Smith Jr. is far more honored in the LDS Church than he is by the church once led by his sons and grandsons.
If Emma Smith had chosen to emigrate west, she and her children would doubtless have been honored like the rest of the Smith family.
MJ | 10:27 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007
I have always wondered if maybe none of Joesphs decendents came west becuase it
was very improtant that the Church did not become The Smith family church.
Everything happens for a reason. One thing for sure is that he will have his
family.
kT | 10:31 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007
From Merriam-Webster's Dictionary:
martyrdom: the suffering of death on account of adherence to a cause and especially to one's religious faith
By this objective definition, the death of the Prophet was a martyrdom.
martyrdom: the suffering of death on account of adherence to a cause and especially to one's religious faith
By this objective definition, the death of the Prophet was a martyrdom.
Christopher Estep | 10:48 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007
Um...wasn't Joseph Smith Sr. the first Patriarch?
utahatheist | 11:55 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007
Interesting debate. Does it really matter in the big picture of the LDS faith?
Just curious...
Lorenzo | 12:28 p.m. Aug. 27, 2007
Historians wrote that Bringham Young agreed with Emma Smith that she should
stay behind in Nauvoo so that she could prepare a time to travel with a latter
group of saints west.
Her youngest child was ill at the time of the first crossing into Iowa.
Years latter Emmas two sons David and Alexander traveled to utah to meet Bringham Young to ask for assistance to meet up with the saint in utah.
For some personal reason Young refused to assist Emma and her family with any means of assistance as he promised many years before.
Emmas sons retured back to Nauvoo and reported back to Emma. This is just a few examples why there is a grevience between the two families.
I have a testimony that Brigham Young was called as a prophet but as history teaches that all men have faults even prophets.
This church is TRUE! People are not PERFECT!
I can live with that.
Her youngest child was ill at the time of the first crossing into Iowa.
Years latter Emmas two sons David and Alexander traveled to utah to meet Bringham Young to ask for assistance to meet up with the saint in utah.
For some personal reason Young refused to assist Emma and her family with any means of assistance as he promised many years before.
Emmas sons retured back to Nauvoo and reported back to Emma. This is just a few examples why there is a grevience between the two families.
I have a testimony that Brigham Young was called as a prophet but as history teaches that all men have faults even prophets.
This church is TRUE! People are not PERFECT!
I can live with that.
Anonymous | 12:36 p.m. Aug. 27, 2007
Yes, Christopher...Joseph Smith Sr. WAS the first Patriarch.
HowWouldJesusBehave | 1:15 p.m. Aug. 27, 2007
None of us are in a position to Judge -- either Emma or Brigham.
This song helps our family understand and appreciate Emma even more...
"Emma"
Never had an ordinary day
Never lived your life in an ordinary way
For everything you loved you paid a price
But you couldn�t let the world see you cry
Never had a moment of peace
Never felt the sunlight when the worries set you free
Every time your life turned a page
It seemed like your heart might break
With the world on your shoulders
When the nights had grown colder
You seemed to weather every storm
With a queen�s grace
When you lost your husband
When you buried your children
I�m sure the angels stood in reverence as you prayed
How much can one heart take
Never had a day to call your own
When so many needed your warm heart as a home
Whispering a mother�s lullaby
As you sat alone by the fire
With the world on your shoulders
When the nights had grown colder
You seemed to weather every storm
With a queen�s grace
When you lost your husband
When you buried your children
I�m sure the angels stood in reverence as you prayed
How much can one heart take
And I�m sure your heart breaks
When some people still say
That somewhere down the line you lost your faith
How much can one heart take
(Written by Jason Deere, sung by Mindy Gledhill on the album "Joseph, a Nashville Tribute to the Prophet")
This song helps our family understand and appreciate Emma even more...
"Emma"
Never had an ordinary day
Never lived your life in an ordinary way
For everything you loved you paid a price
But you couldn�t let the world see you cry
Never had a moment of peace
Never felt the sunlight when the worries set you free
Every time your life turned a page
It seemed like your heart might break
With the world on your shoulders
When the nights had grown colder
You seemed to weather every storm
With a queen�s grace
When you lost your husband
When you buried your children
I�m sure the angels stood in reverence as you prayed
How much can one heart take
Never had a day to call your own
When so many needed your warm heart as a home
Whispering a mother�s lullaby
As you sat alone by the fire
With the world on your shoulders
When the nights had grown colder
You seemed to weather every storm
With a queen�s grace
When you lost your husband
When you buried your children
I�m sure the angels stood in reverence as you prayed
How much can one heart take
And I�m sure your heart breaks
When some people still say
That somewhere down the line you lost your faith
How much can one heart take
(Written by Jason Deere, sung by Mindy Gledhill on the album "Joseph, a Nashville Tribute to the Prophet")
A fan of Porter Rockwell | 1:28 p.m. Aug. 27, 2007
Can't we all just get along?
Hoskins, Lish, Howell, Hall | 2:13 p.m. Aug. 27, 2007
This is a great start. Some of us are from families split by this problem. We
need to step up and do the same.
East-coaster | 2:38 p.m. Aug. 27, 2007
It is humerous to hear so many people with so many facts...it's a typical
for the "mormon" population to have facts and answers (right or wrong)
about everything. Dean, you hit the nail on the head...quit spitting out facts
unless you KNOW what your saying is factual. Besides all the
"factual" comments, it was a pretty good/interesting article.
Rich | 4:04 p.m. Aug. 27, 2007
East-coaster and a few of you others, both LDS and non-LDS, your
mean-spiritedness is not appreciated. Some of you have done a good job of
discussing this topic in the spirit of love and forgiveness. I appreciate that.
workinglate | 4:38 p.m. Aug. 27, 2007
To Utahatheist - yes, it does matter because part of the "big picture"
is understanding human behavior and how events like this impact people's
faith (some weaken, some strengthen). Right, wrong, or indifferent, generations
of people have been impacted by largely the interaction between Emma and BY 150
years ago.
Roundman | 5:22 p.m. Aug. 27, 2007
Facts are important but they change as we learn more so its good for us to spit
out facts and then be corrected by the likes of Dean. The learning process is
fun except when condescension arises from Professors like Dean.
I met Gracia Jones years ago as a youth and she is a great lady. She was names Gracia for a reason.
I met Gracia Jones years ago as a youth and she is a great lady. She was names Gracia for a reason.
Lightly | 5:34 p.m. Aug. 27, 2007
In response to JST,
I've read a lot about Joseph Smith and his plural marriages. For a long time, many believed that he did father one child in one of his plural marriages, but DNA testing has since proved otherwise.
I've read a lot about Joseph Smith and his plural marriages. For a long time, many believed that he did father one child in one of his plural marriages, but DNA testing has since proved otherwise.
jdf | 6:26 p.m. Aug. 27, 2007
This is good. I think that any feuds are hurtful and accomplish nothing but
making people feel bad.
Emma went through a very hard time and she will be rewarded for that I am sure. None of us can really say much by way of judgement beyond that. She was an amazing lady to whom I am deeply indebted for her early service to the church.
Emma went through a very hard time and she will be rewarded for that I am sure. None of us can really say much by way of judgement beyond that. She was an amazing lady to whom I am deeply indebted for her early service to the church.
MEE | 6:43 p.m. Aug. 27, 2007
As the descendent of Brigham Young who attended the Joseph Smith Jr. reunion and
offered the "healing statement," I appreciate greatly those of you who
have offered positive comments, and who are careful of your facts. Most of all I
am grateful for those who stand ready to embrace the descendents of Emma Smith
whether or not they have come into the Church.
The invitation was extended by Michael Kennedy who is the president of the Joseph Smith Jr. family organization, and we jumped at the chance to join them in Nauvoo and respond with all our hearts. Brigham and others on the other side of the veil orchestrated this event, and they are rejoicing with us. Those of us who have participated know this to be true. We hope the whole Church will join us in building this very important bridge to our beloved Emma Smith and her descendents.
The invitation was extended by Michael Kennedy who is the president of the Joseph Smith Jr. family organization, and we jumped at the chance to join them in Nauvoo and respond with all our hearts. Brigham and others on the other side of the veil orchestrated this event, and they are rejoicing with us. Those of us who have participated know this to be true. We hope the whole Church will join us in building this very important bridge to our beloved Emma Smith and her descendents.
Scott | 6:55 p.m. Aug. 27, 2007
It certainly is true that no one knows Emma's eternal judgement, but when
she made the decision to leave the Church, she forfeited her status as elect
lady. The true elect lady is Hyrum's wife, Mary Fielding Smith, who unlike
Emma, dispite similar hardships, endured to the end and stayed true to the
faith. Because of Emma, all of Joseph Smith's five children left the
church. Because of Mary Fielding, all of Hyrum Smith's children remained
in the Church.
laguna | 7:29 p.m. Aug. 27, 2007
I find it curious to read what members think are facts about church history.
Most of the opinions given on this thread are incorrect. Many members dont even
know about Josephs multiple wives, since the church down-plays this aspect.
It is impossible to believe that since Joseph was the most important man to God, in this dispensation and yet his own family was not guided by inspiration to stay with God's true church. Not much of a family oriented plan by the Diety.
It is impossible to believe that since Joseph was the most important man to God, in this dispensation and yet his own family was not guided by inspiration to stay with God's true church. Not much of a family oriented plan by the Diety.
Clinical Psychologist | 8:18 p.m. Aug. 27, 2007
Oh Laguna, think about it. God's plan gives every person the agency to
choose for themselves regardless of who they are related to. In the eternal
scheme of things none of us get Paris Hilton perks just for being born to
someone great. We all have to work out our own salvation.
laguna | 10:42 p.m. Aug. 27, 2007
Oh Clinical, I have thought about it alot! Would you want me to believe that
Emma and family, after living with a true prophet of God, couldnt figure out
which group was the correct one? I think that they were in a better position to
know that Brigham was the pretender. Think about that. Why do you assume that
the Utah group was the correct one? Today they appear to have been more
successful, better marketing is what they have had. Not that successful in the
overall market for religion.
Lori Ellen Sims | 1:11 a.m. Aug. 28, 2007
Why has everyone forgotten that all of these religous splinterings started with
two DNA strands: "Adam and Eve" or was that "Atom and
Electron." I think both! In turn, the hand of God, would be a photon
(i.e., light).
Perle | 1:27 a.m. Aug. 28, 2007
I join others in expressing my delight in the fact that SLC and Nauvoo
(figuratively speaking) are getting to know and appreciate one another.
In my 60 years as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day-Saints, I do not remember ever hearing an unkind word spoken of Emma as we studied Church History. She is revered and remains so in my heart and mind.
In my 60 years as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day-Saints, I do not remember ever hearing an unkind word spoken of Emma as we studied Church History. She is revered and remains so in my heart and mind.
leatherneck | 8:21 a.m. Aug. 28, 2007
Joseph and Emma and their children will certainly be together in eternity, as
will Hyrum and his children, and Brigham and his children. Kudos to those who
are reaching out to others while yet in mortality.
Lori B. | 10:03 a.m. Aug. 28, 2007
To Scott...
Emma IS an elect lady. Perhaps you are in a better position to judge her, but I would prefer to err on the side of caution--being that I'm not omnicient. We are foolish to look back on history and render absolute judgment when there is SO much we don't know. All I need to know is that the Prophet Joseph and Lucy Mack loved Emma and never failed in their devotion to her (and vice versa). Our time is better spent in judging about our own salvation.
Kudos to everyone involved in putting bitter feelings in the past. That is surely the best place for them.
Emma IS an elect lady. Perhaps you are in a better position to judge her, but I would prefer to err on the side of caution--being that I'm not omnicient. We are foolish to look back on history and render absolute judgment when there is SO much we don't know. All I need to know is that the Prophet Joseph and Lucy Mack loved Emma and never failed in their devotion to her (and vice versa). Our time is better spent in judging about our own salvation.
Kudos to everyone involved in putting bitter feelings in the past. That is surely the best place for them.
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