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Hope wilts: Miners' families bitter at speculation 5th borehole won't detect signs of life

Shaun Williams - Phoenix,Az | 3:08 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

I am of course deeply saddened to think that all of the dear miners may have been lost, I do think however that the present reality is that the miners are no longer alive. I think that the bodies need to be recovered as soon as possible so that the families can hold services and move on with their lives.The safety of those who will carry out the recovery effort must be paramount, if the mine is found to be slowly collapsing as some have suggested,the bodies should be recoverd at a later date when the recovery can be done without loss of life.

Sad | 3:13 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

This story is so sad. My heart goes out to those families. But, what they are essentially demanding and the nature of their criticism is driven by emotion rather than rational (given the situation, it is hard to expect anything else). Even if mine officials had began drilling a 36 inch hole during the first week, for which the families claim to have asked, & even if MSHA would have approved such a dangerous feat, the chances of that hole hitting an area in which a rescuer could climb out of a capsul and move about the mine tunnels in search of the 6 without being obstructed by cave-ins and floods is VERY slim. I believe the rescue effort is doing the right thing with the small holes. They take about 2 days to drill (as opposed to 3 weeks with the 36 inch hole). "IF" any of the men survived the initial collapse (which registered 4.0, rumbled for about 4 min. and kicked out a gust of air that pushed one workers' truck nose down as he exited the mine), food, water, light and supplies can be sent down to the miners to sustain them while a hole large enough to bring them out is drilled. It's much safer to bring the men up than send men down (greater chance of the hole collapsing into itself going down). It is about all there is to do! I know Murray and various groups of miners have prayed together daily for signs of life, among other things. So far, nothing... nothing that could rationalize putting any more lives in danger. I continue to pray that these families will have closure- hopefully joyful. But, people should understand that their demands are emotionally driven, and be sensitive to this.

PJ | 4:18 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

The miners' families need to realize that pessimism is justified in this case. No sign of life (voices, banging, carbon dioxide) has ever been detected from inside the mine since the initial collapse. If there had ever been any indication that someone survived the Aug. 6 event two weeks ago, I'm sure that people would still be doing everything humanly possible to get to them. From what I understand, there is a vast amount of debris under which the men may be buried, enough to cover three football fields. If there is no way to remove that coal and rock safely without endangering rescuers' lives. Even if it were possible to get a 30-inch hole dug within a week, and send a volunteer with an air tank down to roam around the blocked off section, does anyone really believe he would actually be able to find the six miners? What if that rescuer perished during the attempt to locate the miners? Would everyone still want to keep sending down more people? If this had happened in the ocean and rescuers were looking for six men lost at sea, I think the Coast Guard would be "throwing in the towel" about now, if not sooner. Nobody would expect to be able find a missing person at sea after two weeks. I think the current situation is similar. I understand the families' anger and frustration, but it certainly hasn't been because of the lack of trying. As difficult as it may be to accept, the truth is the mine has likely become the final resting place for those honorable six souls, who hopefully didn't suffer at all as they slipped into the next world. May they rest in peace, and their families find solace in their grief.

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tiny | 4:35 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

After listening to the Press Conference from the families of these 6 trapped miners, I agree with them. After being told that it is still a "rescue operation and they will not stop until the miners are found" and then the very next morning be told that the miners will most likely never be found, I would also be very angry and frustrated with officials for not doing more in the beginning. My heart goes out to these families. And I feel Mr. Murray has alot to answer too for not listening to their requests from the beginning and thinking that only the "Pros" know what is best in the situation and then when things go bad - he deserted these families. These families have every right to be angry. May God be with them and step in to help find the answers on how to find these men and get them out of that mine so they can have some peace.

SLC Reader | 6:05 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

How good of Mr. Olsen and company to stir the pot --for a fee (like this reporter I googled Olsen, too, and immediately found his affiliation with a law firm). What am I missing here? Just what possible good does it do to take 20 days to drill a hole and lower a capsule into a cavity where there are no signs of life or breathable air? Mr. Olsen offered no explanation of how this plan would resolve the crisis. All I see here is an attorney positioning for future law suits. Meanwhile, the families are pushed from all directions.

Jethro | 6:38 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

"We feel that they've given up." Well, if that isn't as selfish of a comment that I've ever heard. They drilled 4 holes, are drilling a 5th. Not to mention, they sent in a rescue crew, two of which lost their lives. Go tell that to the families of the rescue miners that died.

Anonymous | 7:42 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Unforunately, the "rescue" effort has become a
recovery.

brett | 7:49 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Forgive me for being hopeful. But I know who knows where they are. I know that if they are to be found, they will be. Because I know who knows, and because I know that He is able to arrange and do all things, I have hope. We look too often through our own eyes and say things are impossible and we should be doubtful. If they are gone He took them, but if they are not which none of us know, we keep looking. There is alway, always hope. If it was not their time to go, and we really have the faith and hope so many claim, then we will see the miracle. Time will tell. Either way, hope should never be lost. If we lose hope, we are of all people most miserable. Hope drives us to accomplishment.

Greg | 8:28 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

I agree with Jethro's comments. I feel for the families of the trapped miners, but I don't think that it can be said that "We feel that they've given up." The families might have an opinion about the way things have been handled. It appears to me that they haven't given up they are now speaking what reality probably is. My hearts and prayers go to the families of the trapped miners and the families on the rescuers who lost their lives trying to find their friends.

Billy Mills | 8:37 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

I am trying hard to understand why the capsule idea wasn't brought to light on the second hole. At that time there was sufficient oxygen available. A man could have been lowered into the mine with a small oxygen cylinder and a microphone for communications with those on top. I've worked in the oilfields and know that to drill a hole large enough for a capsule, 2,000 ft deep would not take a week and to set a liner. You can stand too close to the forest and never see it. GOD BLESS ALL, Sincerely, Billy Mills

Carolyn | 9:01 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

This is such a sad, sad story. We feel such compassion for all the families involved. But I think we all know that those miners are underneath that pile of rubble and hopefully they never knew what happened. The rescuers have been heroic in their efforts. To me it would make more sense at this point to seal the mine, put in place a memorial and let the healing begin. It will take a long, long time. May God bless them all.

Barbara Ann Jelks Ogwu | 9:32 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Give Up..!I have seen so many survival documentaries on human beings who had to save themselves because it was thought that the said individuals were dead.On one survival documentary that I viewed, a man came from a mountain broken leg, frost bitten and lost fingers and toes but he endured it alone! His friends left him because they thought that he was dead.
Other survivors were part of the air plane crash depicted in the movie "Alive" . The members had to climb,walk and crawl through the mountains in order to save themselves because they were left for dead.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alive-True-Story-Andes-Survivors/dp/0099432498.
How dare Us! We let individuals slowly die and we return later to perhaps recover the corpse. Their just might be a miracle window of opportunity open for their lives as noted in survival documentaries. Searching for victims should not be halted until the people are retrieved, preferably alive.
As far as the miners are concerned....
They could suffocate if they did not die instantly from the fall. What if their are survivors waiting on rescue. They are in the thick blackness,minimal air, minimal space, no food, no water, no medicine, " Evidently, no Hope?" Lets turn our heads, close our eyes, and stop our ears until we are sure that they are dead?
We leave them because we can here no sound from down their. How much sound can be vibrated from a combination of coal,rock and dirt? Perhaps the scenario is that the victims and the rescuers can not hear each other. They might be screaming as loud as they can considering the lack of air, water, food. Since we a speculating that they are dead, what if their arms are pinned down? This is an absolute horrible situation.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=true+stories+of+survivors+who+were+left+for+dead&btnG=Search
Barbara Ann Jelks Ogwu
barbaraannjelksogwu

Jim | 9:49 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

If The accident hadn't had happened on Thursday, we would still hear how there is "every reason for hope" The miners might be Dead, but thats no reason to stop looking for them or to suspend operations. But the families have to face reality as well.

Jack | 10:28 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Murray played the hope card to give him time to establish a better defense. Today, the air samples show there isn't enough oxygen. People bought in to Murray's hopeful song. We are taught that there's is always hope. Only a fool would change the human desire to hope against all odds. When you deal with risk, you must figure the ability to rescue people. You don't use mining practices, like retreat mining if can conduct safe rescues. This may be solved by more prayers. Is god more moved by the quality or quantity of prayers? Can you pray to a stacked deck were god won't be swayed to intervene? Praying may be interfering with god's faith test for these people.

RPP | 10:54 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

THE MINE OWNERS, FELLOW WORKERS , STATE/FEDERAL OFFICICIALS ALL HAVE PERFORMED WITH ALL THEY HAVE. GRATITUDE AND APPRECIATION IS IN ORDER BY THE FAMILYS. ALL THAT IS ISSUED BY FAMILIES ARE SOUR GRAPES OF IN GRATITUDE. PLEASE BE MORE GREATFUL AND NOT CRITICAL. THE FAMILIES CRITICAL ATTITTUDE WILL NOT BRING THEM BACK OR SOLVE MINE PROBLEMS IN THE FUTURE!

Jethro | 11:05 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

4th story down, 3 people die in a car crash. Point being, this mining story is tragic, it is sad. But while we sit and mourn over those 6 miners and whether they are alive and whether they are dead, hundreds others are dying everyday from just as tragic situations. Seriously, how many died from that earthquake in Peru last week? Hundreds! How about this Hurricane about to hit the East coast? Most likely several.........

Whitney | 11:29 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

This whole thing is an extremely terrible story. I can't help but to read into the expressions of this guy who claims it was a "mother nature" related accident. He is lying through his teeth. From his first press conference he made the comment "Turn that down! I can wait. No hurry here." how wrong that is! These miners could very well be a miracle. We need to have and keep hope. Give us something to pray for. These families are hurting and deserve hope and faith. Lets live our lives and pray for the best. These miners will be found. If they are alive or if they are only found in spirit. we will still have hope.

Anonymous | 11:31 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

GOD BLESS ALL THE WORLD

pat in mt sterling ky | 12:24 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

this is such a tragetyim relly sorry for the famlies my husband worked in a coal mines for 25 years and ther wasnt a day went by that i wasnt afraid for his life but he relly enjoyed his job he said once you work in a coal mines you wont do any thing else my thoughts are wit you all and i hope the verry best i have been praying for you all just pray they are in gods hands that is all we can do now .

Kyle | 12:57 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

I think the families need to reign in their ambulance chasing attorney before they loose all public support.

They need to decide if they will line up behind... The man promising them money (Sonny Olsen) or the man promising them as much hope as possible at this point (Rob Murray). I haven't seen Olsen enter the mine once or lift a finger to return their loved ones to them (all he promises is anger, money and vengence). On the other hand Murray has been in the mine daily, meeting with all the mining experts he can find and doing everything in his power to find their loved ones. To turn on Murray and line up behind your lawyer before all the facts are in is reprehensible and low class.

From TN | 12:58 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

I am deeply saddened by the tragedy in Utah. My grandpa and great grandpa worked in the coal mines and were injured several times due to seismic activity. We should all keep hope and pray for the families during this difficult time. Even if the men are not found alive, it is only humane that the bodies be retrieved for proper burial. The families will not receive any closure unless they know beyond a shadow of doubt that they are gone. I have to agree with Brett above. If it was not their time to go, someone will see that they can breathe until they are found.

LA | 3:12 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Mining is dangerous work. This is a very tragic situation. Lives have been lost trying to rescue the trapped miners. It's beyond any reason to think these men are still alive. Everything that can be done, has been done. The comments from the families are sounding pretty bitter..and that's understandable....but it's unreasonable to continue risking lives to recover the bodies. May they rest in peace.

Interloper | 4:05 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

The people who are still defending Robert Murrary and the bad decisions he has made have a very deep need to kowtow to authority figures. That can be the only explanation since the evidence shows that he has been negligent from beginning retreat mining in Crandall Canyon to having unsafe rescue procedures that failed twice. To claim that his bumbling and lies are acceptable is inane. It is time everyone saw right through this manipulative 'authority figure.'

The families' desire that a rescue capsule be tried now may not be reasonable. But, they say they requested such an attempt much earlier, which might have made sense. Murray's partly responsible for the public not knowing about what the families wanted sooner, as well. He kept them confined and would only allow them to speak with him, not the media or lawyers.

Carl | 4:11 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

I've not had time to watch or read a lot about this story, so one of you commenters might know the answer to this: Do miners go into the mine with walkie talkies or some other communication devices? If they don't, it would seem a mind-boggling oversight. It might even be useful to hook up homing devices to miners. It might appear very expensive, but if something like this was used, it would be much more likely that the miners' location would be known. It would also likely have saved the lives of the three rescue workers who were searching for pins in haystacks.

DO in Louisiana | 9:12 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

I came here from that very area of Utah a little over a year ago. Most of my family is located there in Huntington, and it is so hard to sit here and watch this awful tragedy. I hope that the families can get some kind of closure and that there is some way to recover the men if they can. Also it is so sad to think that others have lost their lives trying to get to them, what is wrong with the owners? they should be more considerate to the feelings of all of the people concerned. I just hope that someone will bring the horrible tragedy to some kind of closure for all of those envolved and those of us who care about our loving family and dear friends back there. GOD BLESS ALL THE MINERS AND THEIR FAMILIES WHO WAIT AND CARE.

kp | 10:29 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

I think that we should stay positive. The miners knew that the job comes with a certian risk. It is a very dangerous career. The rescuers acted with the passion of our Service Men. Knowing that they were risking their lives for a good cause. Finding their friends. Bless them for their dedication and devotion. Nothing will bring them back. We can help them finish what they thought was the right by continuing with the effort. They had no guarantee that their friends were still alive. They still wanted to save them. Who cares who to blame? They probably already blame themselves and who'd want to live with that pain. No one can control Mother Nature. Some things just happen and they are out of our control. People just have to accept that fact.

LJP | 11:17 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

I am the daughter of one of the mine rescue workers. I just have to say I am so EXTREMELY PROUD of my dad and all of the other rescue workers efforts to help get these men out of this mine. THEY ARE DOING ALL THEY CAN. They have put their blood, sweat and tears into this rescue effort.
My heart goes out to all the trapped miners families. I can't even begin to imagine what they are going through, but please keep in mind we cannot risk anymore lives. These rescue workers deserve more than "its not been enough," they deserve the utmost GRATITUDE.

bob | 12:57 a.m. Aug. 21, 2007

this is a sad time for many people,trying to place blame will not produce anything but more sadness, we should all stay positive and support one another,lets hope and pray for a good outcome, if the miners did not survive, then all is well with god and we all should have faith that the lord has taken care of these fine men, they knew the risk of there work, and its a risk they took, the families of these men knew the risk,if there were unsafe methods used, it will come out in the investigative process, in the mean time, just support the good efforts being taken and don't let hate and bad feelings be the driving influence, understanding and love ,have faith in god, he knows what we don't know, and See's what we do not see....

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Jennifer Ackerman, Deseret Morning News

Amanda Romero, right, daughter of miner Don Erickson, hugs a friend at the candlelight vigil Sunday at Peace Gardens in Price.

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Hope wilts: Miners' families bitter at speculation 5th borehole won't detect signs of life

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Reader comments Hope wilts: Miners' families bitter at speculation 5th borehole won't detect signs of life

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Hope wilts: Miners' families bitter at speculation 5th borehole won't detect signs of life