Deseret News | Reader comments: Utah school districts face teacher shortage

Reader comments
Utah school districts face teacher shortage

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Anonymous | 1:01 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

What do you expect with one of the lowest paid professions? This has been a problem for years and years. With budget surpluses in the state, it appears that the state isn't interested in solving the problem. Probably because their kids are either a) out of school or b) go to private schools.

ray | 5:39 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

We have too much adminstrative expenses in our Public School System, or too many chiefs, with too much pay. Then you would have the funds to pay the teachers a decent wage.

Former Utahan | 7:04 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

I used to think Utah schools were the best. I got a great education and my teachers were creative and resourceful. You can see by the SAT and ACT scores that Utah teachers are doing their job. Our family moved out of state four years ago. My children now go to schools in a different state. The difference is shocking. There are so many more programs here that could never be offered in Utah because of lack of funds. More one on one contact from teachers has made a big difference in every class. There are not as many struggling students in title one type programs, the students are taught in class. Some of my friends used to be teachers in Utah and vowed to never teach there again (low pay and outrageously high expectations). We have to buy all the school supplies, pay for all field trips and send donations to help teachers; something not allowed in Utah, but it only adds up to about $150 per child per year. Money well spent! Every class has 2 full-time teachers and the class size is under 25 for all grades under 6th grade. In Utah, my son had 54 kids in his third grade class, with two teachers. It was an experiment his school tried for that year. What a nightmare. One teacher taught from a closet over a loud speaker and had no contact with students. The other teacher enforced the no talk, no noise policy. It was so chaotic that the teachers didn't finish the course studies for the year. So many kids failed their end of grade tests that the district told the school not to do it again, ever! I sympathize with everyone, both teachers and parents doing their best to teach our kids.

Comments continue below

Megan | 7:07 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

I know why there is a teacher shortage, and it's not just about the money. Teaching has gotten ridiculously demanding. There are so many laws and so much paperwork. I taught for a couple of years. All I wanted to do was teach kids, but the paperwork kept me in the classroom from 6:00 am until 9:00 or 10:00 pm my first few months - and in on Saturday (and I am not exaggerating). It got a little better after a while, but never great. I had to see a physician for stress-related problems. I know there is a big push for more quality education, but imposing more rules and "accountability" (i.e. paperwork) on teachers is not helping the shortage. Every day I was praying I wouldn't break some petty law such as missing a signature on one of the MANY papers at a SINGLE IEP meeting (big deal)! But if those auditors come in, it is a HUGE deal, and it's scary to teachers. If we want better education, we need to have fewer students per teacher, secretaries for the teachers, a more structured curriculum, and/or get parents more involved in the school. I loved my students, but I hated the profession.

Frank from Illinois | 7:14 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Teacher shortage? Utah has the lowest funding level in the country? Maybe these things are related. How about changing the public mentality and increasing tax rates for education? That would allow Utah to compete for the teachers. Why expect teachers to work for a pittance in Utah when they can go anywhere else in the country and have an actual living wage? My perspective: my wife is an Illinois teacher with about the same education & tenure as a relative in Utah, but our relative gets paid about 60% of my wife's salary. Think about it.

Mike | 7:29 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

My oldest son just graduated from the UofU with a Master's in Exercise Science with an emphasis on special needs students. They wouldn't even consider staying in Utah because of the pay. They looked at Wyoming first, and last week moved to Texas because of the financial advantages to them. Until Utah is attractive financially, these quality grads will go elsewhere.

Terri | 7:37 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

I am a teacher who graduated from USU with a Masters and a special ed credential. Once I graduated from school I went to CA and I now make twice as much as teachers in UT. Granted CA does cost a little more to live in than UT, but if I left here and went back to UT with UT pay I could barely survive.

Tyler | 8:03 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

I am a teacher here in Utah. The only reason I can afford to be a teacher here is because my husband makes good money as a computer programmer, and that allows me to do something I enjoy doing for very little money (I have compared my job to my friends' volunteering at the public library-it's more like a public service.). Our school just lost one of its best teachers because he simply couldn't afford to raise a family and continue to be a teacher in Utah public education. As housing costs continue to soar, this problem is only going to get worse, not better.

Tom | 8:08 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Sounds like the UEA just put out a press release and it turned into the daily news. Maybe Utah teachers ought to get a clue and realize that their association/union does them a great disservice. Instead of blaming Utah, the Legislature, and a lack of taxes throw out the feminazi regime and get some decent people out to run the show.

Do the math | 8:19 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Without the efforts of the so-called unions to bring pay do 45th in the nation, the shortage would be even worse. However, Ray, who says that there are too many administrators needs to check his facts. Adminsitration costs in Utah are $53 per student and in the two large districts that some would like to split it is $35 -- the national average is $160. Average expenditure per student in the nation is $8,044; in Utah it is $4,838. The eprcent of the budget spent in the classroom in Utah is over 64 percent, the the U. S. it is 61 percent. Class size, is a joke.
So one enters teaching planning to get rich. But a little respect for those who teach our children is in order.

Jay | 8:31 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Holy cow! Whenever someone mentions that there is an actual teacher shortage and it might be tied to the fact that surrounding states pay more, much more, then it must be the "evil" UEA behind it? I didn't see one quote in the article from a UEA representative. They only quoted district human resource personnel. So I guess they are under the control of UEA as well?

In addition, even the governor has realized the seriousness of the situation and is recommending surplus funding to address it. Oh wait, is he just a minion of UEA as well?

I think that the personal stories speak for themselves. Read them and weep.

Marci | 8:38 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

I have taught school for over 20 years, most of those years in Utah, though I now live out of state. Not only do Utah teachers get paid less than their counterparts in every other state in the union but they use our own money to fund projects, increase classroom libraries, supply math and science materials. Utah owes a debt of gratitude to its dedicated teachers who make certain their students get what they need, even if they have to supply it for them. If Utahns pat themselves on the back and say, "Look how much we do with so little money" they need to take a hard look at the truth: Utah teachers are making it happen, often with great personal sacrifice--financial and otherwise.

Chuck Farley | 8:49 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Any state that worships George Bush will demonize school teachers and chase them away. What do you expect Utah? But wait, school vouchers will solve this problem right? As long as Utah continues to be a lemming to the Republican party, this will be a problem.

Neal | 8:55 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Teachers make very good money. If you include the cost of benefits, a self employed person would have to earn about $55 per hour to equal a teacher's pay after 15 years experience. And teachers have no risk of losing their jog (almost everyone else could lose his/her job any moment). In fact, teachers are actually one of the highest paid occupations per hour--exceeding nurses, engineers, lawyers and many doctors. These are FACTS folks. The shortage is due to artificial restrictions such as teacher certification, not pay.

Do the Math II | 8:57 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

According to the article, and posted teacher salaries, entry level teachers are now making $30,000 per year and advanced teachers are making $55,000 to $60,000 per year. Now letï¿½s see. $30,000 per year divided by 182 day by 8 hours per day is $20.60 per hour. $60,000 per year divided by 182 days by 8 hours per day is $41.20 per hour. Now this is with all extended holidays and other time off, sick leave and some personal days. Now the next thing you are going to read is how much time teachers put in after school and during their own time. So does everyone else and teachers are provided with at least one prep period per day and in some districts and schools two depending on the school format. An easy way to end the teacher shortage and increase pay is to extend teachers and schools to full year. This would put beginning teachers salaries at 20.60 times 8 times 250 is $41,200 and advanced teachers making $41.20 per hour time 8 times 250 $82,400. Kids would still do 9 month school but they would be spread across 12 months which would lower class sizes. I think that Parents and teachers like their summers too much. By the way, how much do those teachers who are making $30,000 per year make in the summer doing other jobs? I started teaching in another state in 1995 at 18,000 per year with no benefits. Utah teachers need to appreciate how good they have it. It may be better other places but it is also worse. When you live in a state where there are families of 5, 8, 10, 17 you are going to have lower spending per pupil and the tax base is not there to support more.

Granny T. | 8:57 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

So sad!! People use to want to stay in Utah even if they had to deliver mail, after getting a college degree, because it was a better environment for their families. There is sure more crime in Utah now and hey, there are some really nice communities out there in other states that do pay teachers well and do provide a good living for college grads. Wake up Utah, you get what you pay for. You had better start paying your teachers well or you will loose many more of them.

Neal | 8:58 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Teachers make very good money. If you include the cost of benefits, a self employed person would have to earn about $55 per hour to equal a teacher's pay after 15 years experience. And teachers have no risk of losing their jobs (almost everyone else could lose his/her job any moment). In fact, teachers are actually one of the highest paid occupations per hour--exceeding nurses, engineers, lawyers and many doctors. These are FACTS folks. The shortage is due to artificial restrictions such as teacher certification, not pay.

L | 9:16 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

I recognize the difficulity of getting current and accurate information in some cases. I think the use of a 2004-2005 graphic by the Deseret Morning News in this article is poor journalism! The article would have been better without it since so many changes have been made since that date. Seven phone calls might have given readers more accurate information.

A more informative graphic might have been the one shown plus a similar one with current salaries would help us to understand if the recent salary adjustments are making progress or not.

I know several teachers who are making more money than I do and they have benifits that I don't BUT I couldn't do their job and I appreciate their dedication. I also know others who I feel do important jobs that are proabably under compensated as well.

I also have misgivings about some, which in my opinion are greatly over compensated. Perhaps I just don't understand the need and the value of corporate executives or a sports stars etc. getting millions in salary and other benefits based on their long term contributions to our society.

School teachers and most public employees will proabably never be in the million dollar class and shouldn't be. Retirees or those who only have Social Security are hit especially hard including any raises for school teachers and others as salaries seem to be skyrocketing. The average teacher salary shown is the top salary for many people after many years of service.

The use of the outdated graphic only adds to my confusion !

Rich | 9:20 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Oh please folks. As a former Utahn with a daughter teaching in Utah, the salary level in Utah is pathetic. I live in Ohio, with a cost of living pretty equal to Utah, and teachers are paid about 40% more here. And as for "Do the MathII", you need to do your homework. No dedicated teacher works only 182 days and 8 hour days. Add to that money out of their pockets to pay for classroom supplies, books, posters, etc. This is not a problem that is going to go away by ignoring it.

Taxes | 9:46 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Every Utahn beleives that teachers should make more money until we tell them how much we will have to raise taxes to do so. In this state we still have larger families so the cost to educate these kids is more per family. This is the reality that politicians in this state all know but have refused to deal with for generations. We have to find a better way to fund education.

Robert Oliver | 9:49 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

To Do The Math II: My wife teaches in St. George. 8 hours per day and 182 days per year? Are you woefully informed! More like 10 to 12 hours per day and 190+ days per year. Plus she spends hundreds of dollars of her own money to supplement classroom supplies including school shirts and pictures for kids whose parents don't see fit to provide them. And it isn't just the money. What a regulatory pain. Teach? She does very little of that. To all of you people who think like Do the Math, find some reality before you spout off.

out of work teacher | 9:50 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Having been looking for a teaching job all summer in Jordan I question the whole shortage issue. I did get twenty-four interviews, nearly every school that had positions open, but around half were taken by transferring teachers. I was at the top of the list for interview score, three years of teaching experience and excellent letters of recommend. Still I get the feeling that like several friends unable to find teaching work, my career as a teacher is at its end. Jordan currently has around fifteen elementary and three secondary jobs posted, though I know most of the elementary jobs were long since filled.

I'd recommend to anyone going into teaching to do internships to secure a position or to leave the state. But understand even out of state teachers have to still deal with politics, parents and overcrowded classrooms.

Anonymous | 9:54 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

R E S P E C T for teachers is what is really needed in Utah. High school students also see how their teachers are treated by their parents and by the governing bodies of the state. Why would they be willing to enter a profession that is not only not paid but is denigrated at every turn?

marion christensen | 9:57 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Hours a teacher works depend upon the subject taught, class size, and teacher dedication. As an English teacher I spent 60 hours per week minimum and often 80 to 90 hours per week working, and it was not all done at school. However my time at school was over 8 hours per day. I easily put in farmore working hours in the acadeic year than workers in other jobs put in during a full year.
And, yes, I also spent several hundred dollars of my own money every year on supplies for the students. As for substitute teaching (which I did before regular teaching and after retirement), I would never encourage anybody I liked to do that. In the district where is did most of my subbing, the subs were treated very poorly by most site administrations and even some district personnel.
It's not just salary that causes the teacher shortage, but that is a huge contributor. I loved teaching and most teenagers, but the disrespect and downright abuse was something I was glad to leave behind.

Vance from NY | 10:03 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

We moved from Utah almost 10 years ago and have lived in four different states from the Mid-West to the East Coast. I know it's not popular; but, the income revenue is a major problem. We have paid approximatedly 2.5% - 3% in property/school tax on our homes. It's not uncommon to pay over $12000.00 per year on a $500,000 house. If Utahns want to fix the problem, they are going to have to put their money where their mouth is and pay like most of the country. It's unfortunate; but, it's a reality. Most people don't believe me when I share how little property tax we paid when we lived in Utah. Having said that, I would like to add that it appears that Utah schools have much more parental volunteers which does help defray some costs while keeping standards high. How much investment are our chidren worth?

Mary | 10:03 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

I taught for 17 years in Utah. I spent hundreds of dollars every year for materials for my classroom. I now work for the government and make more after only three years. Yeah, if you look at the per hour rate it looks great but I NEVER worked only eight hours a day. I lived off my credit cards, I could not afford a nice house my car was beat to death. I loved the kids, they were great, but I hated the job.

Former Utahan living in Alabmam | 10:12 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

I believe that teaching is one of the most demanding and least paid profession out there. As Americans we are more willing to let our professional athletes sign million dollar contracts to entertain us than pay our teachers more to educate our children. Utah is not the only state that doesn't pay well and is experiencing a shortage. My husband is leaving the military after 11 years and at a recent job transition meeting a recruiter for "Soldiers to Teachers" came trying to entice these men and women to become teachers offering only $35,000 a year. As an officer my husband made twice that amount. I think it is outrageous that we don't pay teachers in this country more. In Alabama I spent just under $200 getting supplies for my children. I also helped provide some needed supplies for their teachers, our school has at least 4 huge fundraisers a year and we also have a teacher appreciation day where we donate supplies to the teachers. This doesn't take away all of the expenses the teachers have for their classrooms, but it does help some. Maybe if Utah schools had more fund raisers and asked parents to help with supplies teachers might get a small break.

Mke | 10:18 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

This has been a problem a long time coming. The unfortunate thing is that Utah law makers and the Utah education system have done nothing to combat this until it becomes a crisis. I have noticed this to be a typical Utah trend (do nothing until you have too). I think we need to mix up the political parties more if we want to see change. All power in one party never seems to work well long term.

Matt | 10:28 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

It was with disappointment that I was not hired to teach after having received my Elementary Ed credential in the mid 1990s (no shortage back then). I found work in the tech sector and now make more than 3 times what I would be making if I'd taught the past 10 years. I wish there were a way for me to get into the classroom, but I cannot afford to take the paycut, which would cause my wife to have to go to work. It's a shame that the $$ came into play and refused to allow me to work in the profession I love. Hopefully the legislature will continue to improve the situation so there are fewer casualties like me.

As for the quality of education I completely believe that Utah students achieve as well as they do because of the involvement of their parents. Many children come from a 2 parent household. Many children receive attention and care at home. Many children are read to daily. Other states make up that difference by providing the $$ to the schools so they can provide that training; Utah still values families and those families care for and contribute to the overall high quality of education and achievement.

SNG | 10:31 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Davis district might actually get job applicants if they would post their jobs sooner than two weeks before school starts.
My sister graduated this past spring and we have been watching the job postings for all districts since last April. According to the information Davis School District posts, they didn't have any jobs to apply for. Now that everyone has a job, they are claiming desperation.

Shannon | 10:37 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

I am part of the teacher shortage statistic. I graduated between 2000 and 2004 and was no longer teaching in Utah schools by 2004-05. I left to get a graduate degree (ended up spending two years as a high school counselor in another state) and pursue other interests. You could not pay me enough to teach in the Utah public school system. The lack of support for teachers from parents is outrageous. And within the high school where I taught - the teachers did not even support one another. The teacher named our department head only looked out for himself to try to make his load as light as possible despite the consequences on new or less experienced teachers. Any time I tried to use the wonderful things I learned in college by creating exceptionally detailed or creative lesson plans I was shot down by my colleagues for wasting time or making assignments too hard for the students.

I now work for a private university out of state where my talents are appreciated and encouraged - and I get paid over 50000/year.

Remember its not just about the money - its also about working conditions.

Teacher's Sister | 10:53 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

It is interesting to read the ideas of what a teacher's pay is or isn't. The fact is, you would have MORE people willing to teach if you gave the teachers the respect they deserve. My sister is a single mother of three and didn't get her contract renewed simply for the fact that her principal did not like her personally. Her students test scores were equal to or higher then those in the same grade, the parents loved her, and the other teachers were ready to walk out because she was let go. My sister gladly gives money for her students, spends most Saturdays (with her children) at the school and loves what she does. But when the principals or administrators decide that you don't fit the "teacher mold" they do everything that they can to drive one out of the business. They demean you, humiliate you, treat you as though you are nothing. Yet, if you love teaching, you put up with it. I would be HAPPY to have a teacher like my sister who does NOTHING but talk about how excited she is when one of her students gets a new concept or passes a test. Teaching is a difficult and demanding profession, and we should give all the teachers the respect and support they deserve. Maybe the pay isn't as great as other places, but the teachers in Utah are! It isn't always the students and the politicians that cause the problems, rather, look at the politics of the individual schools, and their districts. That is why so many leave Utah or the profession.

McD | 11:02 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

I received my teaching degree from SUU in Cedar City and I could not afford to stay in Utah. I moved to Texas where I made 1/3 more and the cost of living is 1/3 less.
My district here in Texas pays starting teachers, right out of college, $41000.00 a year. Ive been here for ten years now and I make almost twice as much as teachers in utah at the same step rate. And the benifits here are great: every teacher gets a district paid laptop, computer projector, and training to stay on the cutting edge and these items are replaced every three years.
Yes I miss the mountains and the cool summers, but hey I can come and visit. I do enjoy the mild Texas winters though.
All I can say to Utah legislators is to take care of your teachers.

AJ | 11:18 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

First off, if your a teacher and go by the postings on the district web sites . . . . don't. First, you need to apply at the district offices and then you need to find out which schools are looking for your qualifications. If you don't have a job, sub. Subbing gives you insights into schools and lets you listen to teachers in the lounge to determine if how the school runs works for you. Finally, get to know people when your subbing. Keep their names, build a relationship. As you "network" you'll find something. I know as a staff, if we go to our principal and say we want you to interview blank for this job, he/she will do it, especially if we list why we think this person will fit into our department or grade level. At that point you have more than one voice supporting you. Easy? No. Can it be done? Yes. Also, realize that people with experience (transfers) will usually be welcomed over new graduates.
As far as the shortage . . . yes it exists and it will continue to do so as more teachers leave, less who retire return, and less come out of school. If conditions worsen then it will only make it harder to recruit.

M. Dicksen | 11:18 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

It's not just teachers that are underpaid in Utah; nearly every job pays more in other states.

Max | 11:26 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Highly qualified teachers want good management. My wife has taught in Virginia and overseas in the Shanghai International schools -- now, she teaches in the Granite school district (Master of Special Ed from UVA & 10 years of teaching experience). I've often encouraged her to consider better paying opportunities, but she loves her work and she spends a lot of her own money and additional time doing her work.

Summer? She works several days working then too (along with many other teachers that flooded the offices this summer doing prep work) -- just trying to keep up with the incredible work load that she gets in Utah (2 to 3 times the case loads of other states). Retention is a problem because we just don't respect or manage teachers that are high performers. Instead, we treat them poorly - and not just in low salary.

FYI: My wife makes much less than the "advanced" teacher salaries quoted in this article. Indeed, with her credentials / work experience, she could make more in several other jobs, but she loves what she does . . . and it isn't for the money. She loves the school she teaches at because the Principal is a wonderful leader that allows her to do her job -- PERIOD. Other offers came, but she didn't like the management / culture. Teaching is tough enough already, why can't the schools figure out how to just treat the teachers with more respect (i.e. protecting them from aggressive/abusive parents, acknowledging the professional credentials of teachers, and treating them as real professionals)?

Scartissue | 11:37 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

For those teachers who put in all the effort they say they do, my hat is off to you and I hope that my children become your students, and you deserve every penny you get.
But the fact remains that there are just as many teachers who mail it in and look forward to the summer break more than their 11 year old students. As others have stated, the math shows that teachers are very well paid compared with the average salaries in Utah (granted, compared with teaching salaries from other states, it may still be low). The problem many people have is hearing teachers complain about their pay. The points that you bring up concerning money out of your pocket for supplies and you putting in more than 40 hours a week...NEWSFLASH...So does the rest of society. Teachers do not own those arguements.

out of work teacher | 11:50 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Not only did I have three years experience, but I did as you AJ suggested---subbing. I subbed three years in Jordan. I have had half the principals recognize me the moment I walked through the door. One or two said my name was familiar to them as well. But what can you do if the job you are interviewing for is already promised to someone else?

Finding excellent subs is harder than finding quality teachers. For that reason Jordan doesn't hire many subs on. I found out that I was not on the interview list even though I had been told four times I was. A principal showed me the list. I stopped subbing and took an excellent "job" at an underpaying Charter school for two years.

Districts are careers, which is why I opted to leave. While I am still hopeful for employment, I am also realistic. We are in the last stage of hiring and I may need to move on to another profession. I only wish that I had done an internship where I could have got my foot in the door and proven myself. Coming from a Charter school has scared a few off from hiring me.

mindee | 12:47 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Teaching is one of the most important issue we can spend money on. I currently live outside of utah in Iowa. I grew up in utah and recieved an excellant education and had a lot of wonderful teachers,which helped me to have a great love to want to teach myself. I'am right now working on my teaching degree. I will say it is a lot different outside of utah. You do pay more, you pay a fee every year for each child and pay for all school supplies. I have a daughter in second grade and a son going into kindergarten. The schools here are excellent. It took a little bit to get used to, but I would gladly pay for supplies and a fee every year if that meant my child gets a better education and a teacher who is apperciated and loved. My daughter came from utah shcool district and was behind when we got here in everything including reading and math. We moved in the middle of the school year to Iowa and within 5 months she was reading on her level and a little higher. The teachers held a special meeting with 5 other teachers to help her reach her goals. It was great, the teachers really helped her succeed, but more importantly they had the resources to do it. Her class only had 23 students in it and in her reading class 3 kids. Wow! the level of one on one help was incerdible! I love utah I think the schools are great and their are a lot of great teachers, but I think utahns need to realize they will just have to start paying more if they want to keep their teachers and keep them happy.

Charles H | 12:52 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Lots of comments about needing to pay teachers more. But how to pay for it? The surplus is a temporary condition and it isn't like we don't have a surplus of other also very worthy needs in the State from transportation to taking care of the poor.

Utah has the highest "dependency ratio" in the nation. Large families, coupled with lower than average salaries for nearly everyone in Utah means we will ALWAYS have less money, per child, than most other States. While we are perennially at or near the bottom of the nation in terms of per pupil funding, we are always FIRST in the nation in percentage of State budget spent on education.

So what do people propose? Too many parents oppose any kind of fee increases or reductions in the per child deduction on State income tax. Most of the childless (and those who home or private school) justifiably feel like they are already bearing a very heavy burden to educate someone else's children.

So while complaints are easy, what real solutions does anyone propose? Endlessly raising taxes on everyone is NOT a real solution, IMO.

Mom of teacher | 12:57 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

My daughter was a teacher of a kindergarten class for autistic children in the Alpine School District. She had to put out less money in her classroom because she had a marvelous business sponsor, Alpine Credit Union. I would encourage more businesses to step up and support classrooms and schools so that teachers don't have to spend as much of their own money. My daughter appreciated the support (and it wasn't just financial) of the credit union very much. She often spoke of how they would sponsor various activities during the year. My daughter died this summer, but loved her profession very much, and worked very hard to gain each step and each raise. But she also worked very hard to teach each child to grow and learn and advance as much as they could during the year. She loved her profession.

NateC | 1:04 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

I am from Utah but I live and teach in Virginia. If I moved back to UT to teach, I would have to take a $20,000/year cut in pay. No kidding. In Virginia, teachers are treated as professionals, in UT they are treated as glorified fast food employees. There are a lot of great teachers in Utah that deserve better. If Utah intends to hire and keep quality teachers, they need to respect the profession by providing them with the pay and resources necessary. This starts with the legislature. Most school districts and school do the best they can and there are some fantastic administators at both levels. The higher powers need to toe the line and stop pursuing their own agenda of privatizing education.

Anonymous | 1:11 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

This demonstrates the low priority Utah places on its CHILDREN--the low pay and respect for teachers on all levels, as well as child care givers. They
also shoulder a tremendous load of responsibility and liability. I am a teacher, but I do not encourage anyone to enter the field anymore because of the situation. I work at the school from 7:15 a.m. until 6:00 or 7:00 p.m., daily--when the custodian kicks me out. Then, I bring home papers to grade, must go shopping for the food supplies for my Foods Classes, all with no compensation.
Utah is very fortunate to have teachers, like me,
who are willing to give their all to the students!

JB | 1:21 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

The bottom line is the almighty dollar. We need more spending on education in Utah. If parents have more kids, they need to take responsibility and pay more toward their kids' education. We need to attract talented and intelligent teachers with higher salaries, plain and simple. I would gladly go into teaching if it didn't pay 20-30% of my current salary in the technology industry. I didn't get a bachelor's degree in college to be paid the same as an uneducated manual laborer, yet that's what teachers make, and they're all college-educated, and some even have graduate degrees! C'mon people! No wonder we can't find good smart teachers for our schools! All the smart people realize that they can't make a living on a teacher's salary.

cpsandman | 2:49 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Don't believe it. The numbers may say one thing but I have spent the last 2 months applying for teaching positions. Most have been kind enough to interview me but I always lose out to someone who is licensed. I am one of the crazy ones that wants to take a pay cut and follow my dream of teaching. I'm trying to get into the ARL program but can't get into the program until I get a teaching job. I was told the districts are "desparate" for qualified professionals willing to teach and enter into the ARL program but here I sit. I just don't get it. They say one thing but do another. Can someone tell me the truth?

lynn | 3:13 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

ditto to "neal" and "do the math II" - Most people check out the pay before they put in the college time. You thought it was good enough before the education time, why not after. Truth is in many cases you liked the ideas of summers off and same holidays as your children than disliked the salery which I'll add is more than we have lived on for 25 years raising 5 children. I'll agree the paperwork and social problems, "parents" much be a pain but if you can't stand the heat in the kitchen, get out.

Tom | 3:25 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

A quick search of the web gave me this document. It should shed light on the pay that teachers get.

http://www.jordandistrict.org/hr/pdf/07_08teachersalaryschedule.pdf

There is a list of benefits on the site as well.

I am a teacher, I love my job, and I think that we get paid a decent amount, but with a masters degree and five years experience I think it would be nice to make more than $35,000 a year. The problem is that there are too many of me out there who are willing to work for this amount of money. If everyone who complained about the pay would leave the system, then the pay would go up. But we (I include myself)like living here. I knew what I was getting into when I took a job in Utah.
On another note, the legislature does give us about 150 dollars for supplies each year. If you are digging into your own pocket I respect you, but I think that you should move to a school with better administration. I have never been turned down on a supply request.

Complaining is easy, action is difficult.

The truth..... | 3:26 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Everybody wants sympathy. Everyone wants to feel as if they are doing the best they can and sacrificing.

Down here in AZ, it is not much better. Our schools have already started, and several classrooms in my child's school are being taught by subs. I don't know about the pay, but what everyone else says about ANY job in UT being less than elsewhere is TRUE. We'd love to be closer to family but the pay cut would be too drastic. My husband interviewed for a job in the area at the very top of my list of where we'd like to live, but declined because not only was the pay lower (knowing this would be the case) but sacrificing the benefits, the lack of support for training and CE conferences, dealing with the working conditions, and so on, was simply not worth it.

Retired Teacher | 3:36 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Wages are like any product or service, they are determined by supply and demand, unless they are distorted by either price control, subsidies, or by flooding the labor market with immigrants. Teachers' wages/benefits are actually below almost any profession. For example a new Navy ensign(with better benefits) right of of college is paid $40,716 while a new Jordan District teacher is paid $28,207. ATK (the rocket makers) start a production engineers right of of college at $48,200. I once had two pay two plumbers $800 for two hours work, because I didn't want my apartment building to be without water for the weekend. There is only one way to deal with a shortage of skilled workers and that is to increase the wages(or bring in immigrants from Mexico like the Governor wants to do). If wages aren't increased then quality will very soon suffer.

Utah Native...Texas Educator | 4:17 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

I'm a product of Utah Public Schools. I even attended Weber State University. However, I did not stay and teach in Utah because of the salaries that teachers receive. I moved to Texas for two reasons more opportunity and salary. I seen more opportunity for my students to get a much better education than I do in Utah. I will return to work in Utah as a teacher one day but the opportunities I have had in Texas was the reason I choose not to teach in Utah.

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