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Caught in language gap
33 comments | Read story
ray | 5:36 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007
That why we need school choice so those that can not speak English have the
opportunity to receive quality education.
thatknopsgirl | 6:25 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007
The problem is not the language barrier - the problem is that the largest
percentage of these people are ILLEGAL and if the government was doing their
job, they wouldn't be here in the first place. THIS IS AMERICA -- LEARN
ENGLISH!!. I am so sick and tired of going to public places and having to repeat
myself multiple times because i speak ENGLISH. When my grandparents came to this
country (legally, of course), they did not hesistate to learn English. Do the
same.
Comments continue below
One Voter | 6:42 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007
Gee, in all the years of immigration that has NEVER happened before. Get real.
It is the price you pay for living the American Dream. Suggested reading:
Hunger of Memory by Richard Rodriguez.
mom | 6:43 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007
They chose to come here and we do speak ENGLISH. Don't whine about it
now.
senora | 6:47 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007
we lived in a foreign country for 4 years. We took no lessons. We interacted
with the people and learned the language that way. It is better. These people
open businesses that cater only to hispanics so they can avoid speaking english.
It is their duty to learn the language on their own and fit in more with our
society as we did where we lived. it used to be called "do as the Romans
do."
WWJD | 8:22 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007
Give me a break. Do you really think your ancestors came to this country --
through Ellis Island -- with perfect English? Have you ever heard of Chinatowns
or Little Italys bustling with businesses catering to, heavens above, their own
ethnic groups? I pray this sad show of ignorance doesn't reflect the
general level of history knowledge of D-News readers.
This country has such a proud immigrant tradition -- though, strangely, we have always demonized them. (For example, the Irish, the Chinese, the Italians, etc.) It would appear that we can't let this wave of Hispanic immigration go without similar derision and hate.
God bless America, indeed.
This country has such a proud immigrant tradition -- though, strangely, we have always demonized them. (For example, the Irish, the Chinese, the Italians, etc.) It would appear that we can't let this wave of Hispanic immigration go without similar derision and hate.
God bless America, indeed.
nate | 8:42 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007
Thank you, WWJD. Finally somebody with some sense. We are all immigrants and I
would be surprised if our immigrant ancestors ever learned English any better
these people. Yet we revere them for their sacrifices.
The children are learning English and making something of their lives. Illegal or legal, the majority of these immigrants are hard-working individuals whose only desire is to give their children something a little better than they had. The problem is the "new" Republican mindset a la James Buchanan which hopes to put a bubble around our country and shut off everyone else to opportunities that brought our ancestors to this country. Make it easier for those that want to come here to work and have employers that want to hire them. Then--and only then--can we focus on the drug dealers and possible terrorists that truly want to hurt our country.
The children are learning English and making something of their lives. Illegal or legal, the majority of these immigrants are hard-working individuals whose only desire is to give their children something a little better than they had. The problem is the "new" Republican mindset a la James Buchanan which hopes to put a bubble around our country and shut off everyone else to opportunities that brought our ancestors to this country. Make it easier for those that want to come here to work and have employers that want to hire them. Then--and only then--can we focus on the drug dealers and possible terrorists that truly want to hurt our country.
nate | 8:44 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007
Correction. "James" should be "Pat."
marie | 9:06 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007
Thanks WWJD. The bubble is already here in Utah. Sometimes it makes me wonder if
the mayority of utahns have ever crossed the state border or if they ever
listened when taking the American History class in high school.
El Alacrane | 9:09 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007
Aprenda a decir el ingles o irse a casa!
Ty | 9:42 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007
I wonder if any of our ancestors ever took the time to learn to speak any of the
Indian Languages??
confused | 9:49 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007
Why are opposing views on immigration automatically classified as
"hate" speech or "derision?" This is a logical fallacy
intended to prevent or dissuade rational people from having a civilized
discussion about immigration. It does not garner support for your point of
view, nor does engaging in ad hominem attacks by calling people
"ignorant".
Why is it so difficult to accept that people are concerned about Hispanic isolationism? No one here has "demonized" Hispanics.
I for one DO NOT want to waste tax dollars on bi-lingual education when it is the responsibility of the families involved to learn the language of the land. The article fails to mention that you can purchase courses on tape at any bookstore for less than $50. Or how about actually making the attempt to communicate with your neighbor who speaks English? The problem is that many (not all by any means) Hispanics move to locations and associate with people WHO ONLY SPEAK SPANISH!!!. Of course, they're not going to learn English, engaging in this kind of isolationism. I would like to see more (all) accountability placed on the individuals complaining and not bandied about as failed social policy. Thank you.
Why is it so difficult to accept that people are concerned about Hispanic isolationism? No one here has "demonized" Hispanics.
I for one DO NOT want to waste tax dollars on bi-lingual education when it is the responsibility of the families involved to learn the language of the land. The article fails to mention that you can purchase courses on tape at any bookstore for less than $50. Or how about actually making the attempt to communicate with your neighbor who speaks English? The problem is that many (not all by any means) Hispanics move to locations and associate with people WHO ONLY SPEAK SPANISH!!!. Of course, they're not going to learn English, engaging in this kind of isolationism. I would like to see more (all) accountability placed on the individuals complaining and not bandied about as failed social policy. Thank you.
In the middle | 9:55 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007
El Alacrane, your insensitive message might be understood better if you knew how
to write Spanish correctly. By the way this is as much their home as yours.
Yes, "they" need to learn English, but telling "them" to
"go home" is about as hypocritical as you can get unless you are an
American Indian.
WWJD | 10:16 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007
confused,
There are absolutely biases on all sides of this particular issue -- I would be most guilty if I didn't admit to my own. However, I would hope that you wouldn't deny the historical nature of the current immigration "debate." Throughout this country's short life the same problems have come up over and over again. I think it is important that all people appreciate that history.
Indeed, you are free to feel the way you do. However, at what point does your liberty to disagree impinge on the equally important liberty of another to make a better life for their family? I'm sure you would be appalled if Americans had refused to help or even recognition the difficulties of your ancestors when they arrived in this country. (Though, perhaps they were lucky and were white, Protestant, and English-speaking, which would have eased their transition.) Refusing to fund bi-lingual education -- which allows students to continue to progress while they learn English -- just creates an under-class of children that will surely cause an unquantifiable amount of hurt in the future to them and our country.
I also agree with you that our immigration laws are a failed social policy -- and I would take it one step further and submit to you that they are fundamentally immoral (a stance that is sure to draw fire!)
Finally, have you, or anyone you know, learned a foreign language as an adult? Even with the help of the tapes you mention? It is difficult! That is why nearly every wave of immigration has seen the adults struggle to communicate while their children go on to pick up the language easily -- and now we have returned to the topic of this story...
There are absolutely biases on all sides of this particular issue -- I would be most guilty if I didn't admit to my own. However, I would hope that you wouldn't deny the historical nature of the current immigration "debate." Throughout this country's short life the same problems have come up over and over again. I think it is important that all people appreciate that history.
Indeed, you are free to feel the way you do. However, at what point does your liberty to disagree impinge on the equally important liberty of another to make a better life for their family? I'm sure you would be appalled if Americans had refused to help or even recognition the difficulties of your ancestors when they arrived in this country. (Though, perhaps they were lucky and were white, Protestant, and English-speaking, which would have eased their transition.) Refusing to fund bi-lingual education -- which allows students to continue to progress while they learn English -- just creates an under-class of children that will surely cause an unquantifiable amount of hurt in the future to them and our country.
I also agree with you that our immigration laws are a failed social policy -- and I would take it one step further and submit to you that they are fundamentally immoral (a stance that is sure to draw fire!)
Finally, have you, or anyone you know, learned a foreign language as an adult? Even with the help of the tapes you mention? It is difficult! That is why nearly every wave of immigration has seen the adults struggle to communicate while their children go on to pick up the language easily -- and now we have returned to the topic of this story...
Ameerican | 11:19 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007
This article is a blatant, biased FARCE. I have been to
Tio�s many times. Tio�s Restaurant,
at 600 W. 5300 S. has been there for 20 years � they all
speak English just fine. English classes are easily available for FREE, just
check at your nearest meeting house. Latino families communicate just fine at
home. Probably Generation gap is a much worse problem than language gap. This
article is just another volley in the Cannon�s
Pro-illegal-immigrant campaign. If the Deseret Morning News Editors would like
to print an article about a �real�
�terrible problem�, how about
uncovering some of the overwhelming problems American citizens face when and
illegal immigrant steals their identity.
experienced | 11:26 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007
We lived on the central coast of California for eight years where we were in the
midst of many Mexican immigrants. Most of them were isolated, like Confused
says, so that they only spoke Mexi-Spanish. Many of them were illiterate in
their own language. That's what happens with illegal immigration -- there
are no standards. These people watched only Spanish TV and had Spanish
translation in church. I, who learned Spanish in South America, where I lived
for 2-1/2 years, knew Spanish better than they did.
On the other hand, my wife, who immigrated here legally from Europe, learned English by being immersed in English in school, listening to the radio in English, watching TV in English, etc. When I met her at the U, I thought she was from the East Coast from some high class school. English immersion works if the people are motivated to learn and want to fit in.
Bi-lingual education, on the other hand, is a DISASTER! DON'T GO THERE! We saw it first hand in California. The cost is enormous and the result is that the students do not learn English because they have the Spanish crutch. Their parents don't learn English either, so they have that anchor holding them back.
I have no sympathy for anyone who comes to a country illegally, is being educated by those whose laws they broke to come here, and then whines because it is HARD!
On the other hand, my wife, who immigrated here legally from Europe, learned English by being immersed in English in school, listening to the radio in English, watching TV in English, etc. When I met her at the U, I thought she was from the East Coast from some high class school. English immersion works if the people are motivated to learn and want to fit in.
Bi-lingual education, on the other hand, is a DISASTER! DON'T GO THERE! We saw it first hand in California. The cost is enormous and the result is that the students do not learn English because they have the Spanish crutch. Their parents don't learn English either, so they have that anchor holding them back.
I have no sympathy for anyone who comes to a country illegally, is being educated by those whose laws they broke to come here, and then whines because it is HARD!
WWJD | 12:21 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007
experienced,
Your lack of sympathy is disheartening. With that attitude we might as well melt the Statue of Liberty for scrap. You clearly came from a wholly different situation than those other immigrants you speak of. Clearly, you can't expect people coming from a desperate situation with little formal education to be able to adjust in the same manner you did.
I can't comment on the education system in California, so what you say may well be true. However, here in the Salt Lake Valley there are schools that have excellent dual-language programs (Midvale Elementary springs to mind.) In this age when our schools literally live and die by testing, keeping immigrants students -- of any language group, Bantu, Serb, Bosnian, you name it we have some here in SLC -- from progressing in their studies in order to become fully fluent in English causes real problems.
You constitute a very special form of immigrant that is in some respects atypical from the American experience. In earlier centuries this country was flooded with immigrants who neither spoke the language nor knew the customs of this land. However, with time they adapted (congregating in ethnic enclaves for support, for example Little Italy or Chinatown) and even flourished (check out Asian-American socio-economic stats!) Hispanic immigrants will also, with time, integrate, but just as throughout our history (which you now are a co-owner of), it will be a challenge.
Illegal? Perhaps. But what if the law is unjust? I suppose that is a conversation for another time.
Welcome to America.
Your lack of sympathy is disheartening. With that attitude we might as well melt the Statue of Liberty for scrap. You clearly came from a wholly different situation than those other immigrants you speak of. Clearly, you can't expect people coming from a desperate situation with little formal education to be able to adjust in the same manner you did.
I can't comment on the education system in California, so what you say may well be true. However, here in the Salt Lake Valley there are schools that have excellent dual-language programs (Midvale Elementary springs to mind.) In this age when our schools literally live and die by testing, keeping immigrants students -- of any language group, Bantu, Serb, Bosnian, you name it we have some here in SLC -- from progressing in their studies in order to become fully fluent in English causes real problems.
You constitute a very special form of immigrant that is in some respects atypical from the American experience. In earlier centuries this country was flooded with immigrants who neither spoke the language nor knew the customs of this land. However, with time they adapted (congregating in ethnic enclaves for support, for example Little Italy or Chinatown) and even flourished (check out Asian-American socio-economic stats!) Hispanic immigrants will also, with time, integrate, but just as throughout our history (which you now are a co-owner of), it will be a challenge.
Illegal? Perhaps. But what if the law is unjust? I suppose that is a conversation for another time.
Welcome to America.
Katherine | 12:23 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007
The solution is simple - LEARN TO SPEAK ENGLISH. I'm getting tired of
getting messages in Spanish when I make a phone call and get an automated
answering system. I'll bet if I went to a country (and it wouldn't
have to be a Spanish speaking country) whose native language was not English, I
would either learn the language or not communicate. If they live in the United
States they speak English. It should be our national language.
Bill | 12:24 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007
This is much to do about nothing! Both sets of grandparents immagrated from the
Netherlands in 1915. Grandparents spoke dutch to the kids and the kids spoke
dutch back to them.
The kids learned english because that is what all the kids in the neighborhood and at school spoke. My dad's mom never really learned english because she kept to the dutch community in the avenues of SLC. My grandfather learned english because he had to if he wanted to be successful as a contractor.
I have no problem with anyone wanting to keep their traditions and honor their heritage, but why do we need to waste limited resources to help individuals stay fluent in a language that is not going to help you be successful in your english, math, history, and civics classes?
Learning english is what will help anyone get ahead in this country.
The kids learned english because that is what all the kids in the neighborhood and at school spoke. My dad's mom never really learned english because she kept to the dutch community in the avenues of SLC. My grandfather learned english because he had to if he wanted to be successful as a contractor.
I have no problem with anyone wanting to keep their traditions and honor their heritage, but why do we need to waste limited resources to help individuals stay fluent in a language that is not going to help you be successful in your english, math, history, and civics classes?
Learning english is what will help anyone get ahead in this country.
Dave | 12:36 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007
I learned spanish when I went on a mission to Colombia. I was the only white boy
in the whole geographic area. I tried to learn to speak Spanish so well as not
to have an accent. I loved the people and the country and still do.
I also learned first hand what a huge difference there is, and to appreciate even more the United States of America. The more countries I have traveled to the more that has been validated. Even coming back from our good neighbor country in England several years ago everyone on the airplane clapped when we touched down on American soil.
When I was a teenager I remember coming with friends back across the border from Tijuana Mexico to the US and instantly crossing the border there was a very different and wonderful feeling of peace and being at home. Many of you have experienced exactly what I am talking about.
There is something very great about this country and its heritage. It seems to me though there are more and more people who dont know anything about it or want to know about it.
Non-assimilation is being encouraged through government policy, the court system, and the media. It creates division and segregation. It is exacerbating the decay of traditional American culture--I am not talking about perversions that have always been in our society, but a culture established by the pilgrims, Founding Fathers, and others on liberty, responsibility, truth telling, etc., with our legal system founded on the ten commandments.
I know I have taken a broad stroke here, but there are a lot of interrelated issues with multiple languages in society.
Being bilingual for an individual is good, for society its bad. All speaking the same language (English) is key!
I also learned first hand what a huge difference there is, and to appreciate even more the United States of America. The more countries I have traveled to the more that has been validated. Even coming back from our good neighbor country in England several years ago everyone on the airplane clapped when we touched down on American soil.
When I was a teenager I remember coming with friends back across the border from Tijuana Mexico to the US and instantly crossing the border there was a very different and wonderful feeling of peace and being at home. Many of you have experienced exactly what I am talking about.
There is something very great about this country and its heritage. It seems to me though there are more and more people who dont know anything about it or want to know about it.
Non-assimilation is being encouraged through government policy, the court system, and the media. It creates division and segregation. It is exacerbating the decay of traditional American culture--I am not talking about perversions that have always been in our society, but a culture established by the pilgrims, Founding Fathers, and others on liberty, responsibility, truth telling, etc., with our legal system founded on the ten commandments.
I know I have taken a broad stroke here, but there are a lot of interrelated issues with multiple languages in society.
Being bilingual for an individual is good, for society its bad. All speaking the same language (English) is key!
curious | 12:41 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007
Ameerican,
Correct me if I'm wrong but the Gutierrez's have not always run Tio's. I worked with the owners and their daughter 2 1/2 years ago painting a mural and I know that wasn't their last name. One of the owner's then (who's name is escaping me) did speak perfect English but for the owner's now, I can't say.
On another point, I don't think it's fair to classify these people with the illegal immigrants, save that for another story. At the same time I do believe it is up to immigrants to learn the language of the country they are immigrating to, and yet, why not help where we can?
Correct me if I'm wrong but the Gutierrez's have not always run Tio's. I worked with the owners and their daughter 2 1/2 years ago painting a mural and I know that wasn't their last name. One of the owner's then (who's name is escaping me) did speak perfect English but for the owner's now, I can't say.
On another point, I don't think it's fair to classify these people with the illegal immigrants, save that for another story. At the same time I do believe it is up to immigrants to learn the language of the country they are immigrating to, and yet, why not help where we can?
Dee | 12:51 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007
Thank heavens for immigrants!! If it wasn't for immigrants we would be in
real trouble. That's as much true now with Latin American immigrants as it
was in the past with european and asian immigrants.
The birth rate in the U.S. is about 2.1 children per woman of child bearing age. That is about enough to replace the population death rate. Much of that is from immigrant births. Contrast that with Europe where the average birth rate is just 1.5 children per woman of child bearing age. If it wasn't for the new immigrants, our birth rates in the U.S. would likely be similiar to Europes.
When a nation's people become more interested in the fruits of their wealth than in the fruits of their loins, they are in a downward spiral.
For more background on this subject read the article at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/14/AR2005061401340.html
The birth rate in the U.S. is about 2.1 children per woman of child bearing age. That is about enough to replace the population death rate. Much of that is from immigrant births. Contrast that with Europe where the average birth rate is just 1.5 children per woman of child bearing age. If it wasn't for the new immigrants, our birth rates in the U.S. would likely be similiar to Europes.
When a nation's people become more interested in the fruits of their wealth than in the fruits of their loins, they are in a downward spiral.
For more background on this subject read the article at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/14/AR2005061401340.html
fed up with liberals | 2:45 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007
WWJD, yes, what would he do? He would tell them to OBEY the laws of the
land.
This would mean, no ILLEGAL immigration.
Isn't part of LEGAL immigration requirements the ability to read, write and speak English?
This would mean, no ILLEGAL immigration.
Isn't part of LEGAL immigration requirements the ability to read, write and speak English?
Junthor | 3:32 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007
It doesn't matter whether they are illegal or not, They need to learn
English to have a successful life in the US. They also need to learn English to
stop inconveniencing people who Don't speak Spanish.
reyn | 3:40 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007
Unless you have moved to a foreign country as an adult and tried to learn a new
language, you CANNOT say "just learn the language", that only reveals
your ignorance of languages. I also suspect that "experienced's"
wife had alot of english instruction in Europe before she came to the states.
And finally, if you've ever tried to apply for a work visa, or see someone
try for years to obtain citizenship..legally, you would quickly see why so many
give up and come across illegally. Our system is corrupt and cruel when it comes
to being fair with those who try to do it honestly. And didn't our
forefathers come here for many of the same reasons, to get away from a country
that oppressed and limited their chances for a fair and happy life?
If you have a Christian bone in your body, you'll have to deny alot to sit here and critisize those who simply want to come here and do work that many of us are too lazy or too good to do.
If you have a Christian bone in your body, you'll have to deny alot to sit here and critisize those who simply want to come here and do work that many of us are too lazy or too good to do.
WWJD | 3:46 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007
fed up with liberals,
I have a hard time believing that Jesus would be bothered by artificial lines in the dirt. There is a nice parable that describes this... You may already know it?
Simply put, sometimes laws are immoral and should be fought -- a lesson well learned during the Civil Rights era in this very country. While it is easy, and convenient, to shout "illegal" at the top of ones lungs, that will never address the issues at hand or, better, how to solve them.
Clearly, the system is broken -- I think everyone agrees. Moving forward is the hard part. I don't claim to have any answers. My only concern is that the debate be framed honestly and fairly, and a full consideration of the needs of all parties are appreciated.
Slightly off-topic: in response to another comment above about hearing everything in English and Spanish. How do you feel about our military actively recruiting in Spanish? There is a very interesting ad played on Univision where a Spanish youth talks to his family about joining the U.S. Army -- serving you and me. If that solider dies in Iraq or Afghanistan would his/or her sacrifice for this country be any less? Hispanics -- yes, even recent immigrants -- are making up a large portion of new recruits.
These are weighty times for this wonderful, powerful, and -- yes, sometimes -- maddening country of ours.
I have a hard time believing that Jesus would be bothered by artificial lines in the dirt. There is a nice parable that describes this... You may already know it?
Simply put, sometimes laws are immoral and should be fought -- a lesson well learned during the Civil Rights era in this very country. While it is easy, and convenient, to shout "illegal" at the top of ones lungs, that will never address the issues at hand or, better, how to solve them.
Clearly, the system is broken -- I think everyone agrees. Moving forward is the hard part. I don't claim to have any answers. My only concern is that the debate be framed honestly and fairly, and a full consideration of the needs of all parties are appreciated.
Slightly off-topic: in response to another comment above about hearing everything in English and Spanish. How do you feel about our military actively recruiting in Spanish? There is a very interesting ad played on Univision where a Spanish youth talks to his family about joining the U.S. Army -- serving you and me. If that solider dies in Iraq or Afghanistan would his/or her sacrifice for this country be any less? Hispanics -- yes, even recent immigrants -- are making up a large portion of new recruits.
These are weighty times for this wonderful, powerful, and -- yes, sometimes -- maddening country of ours.
Non-Immigrant | 3:55 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007
Nate said, "We are all immigrants." By definition I am not an
immigrant, nor are over 250 million other Americans that were born in the USA,
even to illegal parents. (Definition: a person who comes to a country to take
up permanent residence. Merriam-Webster Dictionary) I worked in Peru for a year
(not a missionary) and by that time I was able to communicate fairly well. My
Peruvian co-workers were tolerant of me but they expected me to use Spanish, and
I understand that. Those who say, "Thank Heavens for immigrants,"
must be those whose wages aren't depressed by cheap labor or because they
hire and benefit from it.
wait | 4:33 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007
My ancestor's never had to learn the native american language. My family
immigrated here in the late 50s and they learned english. So south of the
boarder they can learn the language too.
Patriot | 4:37 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007
WWJD,
Enough of your Self-Righteousness,
Who are you to lecture those of us who disagree with your fundamental premese that our immigration laws are immoral. You don't even have your facts correct on half of what your lecturing on. Your moralizing to the point of insulting. Millions of us in this country regardless of ethnic background have said enough is enough. This is why we have representatives in congress. This is why the most recent immigration bill in the Senate was killed off. "We the people" have said enforce the laws on the books and stop the invasion. Since you seem to think you know history so well, you should tell everyone that in the 1920's "We the people" decided that enough was enough and we stopped the great wave that had flooded this nation for several decades of the first half of the 20th century. Everyone in the world does not have a right to violate our sovereignty or to even come here leaglly. We the people have the right to decide who comes into our sovereign nation. We also have a right to decide our laws and language and what culture we want. "We the people" have a right to our own Borders, Language and Culture. What your advocating is anarchy. That is what is immoral. BTW there is not a moral equivalancy between the civil rights movement and people who invade our nation. I'm tired of your ilk using this straw man argument to advocate open borders and appeasement of law breakers. Just becasuse someone wants a better life does not endow them with a morally supperior right. We all want a better life.
Enough of your Self-Righteousness,
Who are you to lecture those of us who disagree with your fundamental premese that our immigration laws are immoral. You don't even have your facts correct on half of what your lecturing on. Your moralizing to the point of insulting. Millions of us in this country regardless of ethnic background have said enough is enough. This is why we have representatives in congress. This is why the most recent immigration bill in the Senate was killed off. "We the people" have said enforce the laws on the books and stop the invasion. Since you seem to think you know history so well, you should tell everyone that in the 1920's "We the people" decided that enough was enough and we stopped the great wave that had flooded this nation for several decades of the first half of the 20th century. Everyone in the world does not have a right to violate our sovereignty or to even come here leaglly. We the people have the right to decide who comes into our sovereign nation. We also have a right to decide our laws and language and what culture we want. "We the people" have a right to our own Borders, Language and Culture. What your advocating is anarchy. That is what is immoral. BTW there is not a moral equivalancy between the civil rights movement and people who invade our nation. I'm tired of your ilk using this straw man argument to advocate open borders and appeasement of law breakers. Just becasuse someone wants a better life does not endow them with a morally supperior right. We all want a better life.
TIRED | 7:02 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007
Perhaps WWJD would care to compare point by point the way Mexican authorities
treat illegal immigrants into Mexico on Mexico's southern border with the
way the US treats illegal Mexican immigrants into the US. Do illegal immigrants
into Mexico get free emergency medical care from hospitals that can't turn
them away? Are their children given free schooling? I could go on.
On a related issue, if an illegal immigrant steals my social security number and racks up bad debts, who has to fight (for years) to get creditors off his back? ---ME! On the other hand just behold the legal wailing if I try to keep all the income credited to my social security number towards my retirement.
On a related issue, if an illegal immigrant steals my social security number and racks up bad debts, who has to fight (for years) to get creditors off his back? ---ME! On the other hand just behold the legal wailing if I try to keep all the income credited to my social security number towards my retirement.
Atilio R. | 10:32 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007
Believe it or not Arnold Schwarzenegger was right, people need to turn their
spanish speaking tv shows off and switch them to english speaking ones. When I
came to this country I figured that if I do not learn how to speak the
country's language I will be washing dishes for the rest of my life, and to
be quiet honest that was not the reason why I came to America. I am tired of
hearing politicians and social activists trying to justify their jobs while
trying to excuse people for not trying to learn english. Remember, you will
appreciate things more when you achieve things in life on your own and not
asking someone else (i.e taxpayers)to pay for it. I hope people don't take
this message in a wrong way, but I'm telling what I did, and it works.
ESL Teacher | 11:12 a.m. Aug. 22, 2007
I guess you could argue that there are two issues to this debate. One is
language; the other is immigration/illegal immigration.
As far as the immigration issue goes, those of you who are angry about the current situation, you really need to voice your opinions (orally and in writing) to both your local and national leaders. They are the ones who both make and enforce or do not enforce laws related to illegal immigration.
As far as the language goes, People need to learn English. We have made it way to easy for people not to learn English. It is an huge advantage to them here in the U.S.
Now having said that, I am curious to know how many of you have the patience and are willing to take the time to help people learn? English is not an easy language to teach, I can only imagine how hard it is to learn.
I know many people who would love to practice and improve their English by speaking with native speakers. However, many I know are scared to try, because of the bad experiences they have had in the past.
I could ramble about this issue for hours, but it basically comes down to this. People need to learn English. We (native speakers) can help them not only be willing, but enthusiastic about learning English. It takes a little time and a little patience with those who are willing, but I think it is worth it.
Now for those of you, who do not speak a second language, let me tell you it is not easy and it takes time. So be patient with people, open up, engage them in conversation and you could make a new friend.
Sincerely,
a white, 30-year-old, bilingual English/Spanish, male ESL Teacher.
As far as the immigration issue goes, those of you who are angry about the current situation, you really need to voice your opinions (orally and in writing) to both your local and national leaders. They are the ones who both make and enforce or do not enforce laws related to illegal immigration.
As far as the language goes, People need to learn English. We have made it way to easy for people not to learn English. It is an huge advantage to them here in the U.S.
Now having said that, I am curious to know how many of you have the patience and are willing to take the time to help people learn? English is not an easy language to teach, I can only imagine how hard it is to learn.
I know many people who would love to practice and improve their English by speaking with native speakers. However, many I know are scared to try, because of the bad experiences they have had in the past.
I could ramble about this issue for hours, but it basically comes down to this. People need to learn English. We (native speakers) can help them not only be willing, but enthusiastic about learning English. It takes a little time and a little patience with those who are willing, but I think it is worth it.
Now for those of you, who do not speak a second language, let me tell you it is not easy and it takes time. So be patient with people, open up, engage them in conversation and you could make a new friend.
Sincerely,
a white, 30-year-old, bilingual English/Spanish, male ESL Teacher.
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Oddly enough immigrants in the 19th century figured out how to learn the language. It's hard, but it's the price you pay for immigration. If I immigrated to Mexico I doubt I'd get any help learning Spanish -- and I bet the rampant bilingual literature you find here would be available there.