Deseret News | Reader comments: Governor calls for underground rescue at Utah mine to cease immediately

Lori Ellen Sims | 4:17 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

Living Mountain

I wish I could say something to help you ease your suffering

But Iï¿½m not bigger than a mountain

I hear screaming. I hear shouting
I am here. You are over there
Come closer, why I should care?

6 more inside are scared.
Itï¿½s Murray Prayer
That they are safe
And they feel sound
They want to be on solid ground

Murray felt you shaking
Beneath his feet.
Everyone wanted to know
Do we move forward?
Are we beat?
Those not here want A/C
And electric heat.
You can;t shake forever
beneath their feet.

Still they want
What they want
When they want it.
Tell ï¿½em Murrayï¿½s Mountain
Kicked them out
No more mining,
No more doubt.

Until the sun goes round about
Each day we pray
The life we chose
Givesï¿½ us time to close with gratitude
for all that comes
And all that goes.

You and I are not the same.

I know
Your prayers are heard in different ways ---
You are Murrayï¿½s Mountain.
You gave us more than we expected
Itï¿½s time we reinspected
We cannot ever give you back
Every lump of solid black

So please forgive me

Only through tears and fears --
Mortal tools we use
Reminders for us
The Mountain Rules

So please forgive me

You hurt my friends.

Tecunalom

Lori Ellen Sims | 4:32 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

Last night we suffered a terrible loss. Leave Or Repair It?

The trade off between an entrance-based entry and the out-of-a-bigger-bore hole approach, could reduce additional risks associated with the bumps (seismic activity) as the rescue operation proceeds.

The 6 miners initially trapped, in what is presumably a safer-zone near the bore holes are weak or injured ï¿½ it is possible to wrap them on long-spine boards and raise them up vertically through the bore holes. Perhaps Navy-seal/mountain-climber types skilled in repelling up narrow vertical tunnels and using night vision (i.e., thermal imaging) equipment are suited for this type of approach

The position of the source of the sound (i.e. noise) relative to the position of the geophone (i.e., relative coordinates in a 3 dimensional space) may be calculated.

If a miner held two rocks and tapped them together at 1.5-second intervals, at whaat distance would the geophone detect the resultant vibrations I created?
If several miners successively dropped rocks on the ground at 1.5 second intervals; at what rock size and velocity would sufficient noise be made to create the kind of vibration picked up by the geophone?

Can an infrared camera recognize heat differentials (between a humanï¿½s body temperature and ambient air temperature) at a distance that is greater than the geophone can detect vibrations.

From the Ripplinger family | 5:25 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

We add our grief and prayers to those of other Utahans, the nation, the mining industries, and especially to the citizens and families who are so forcefully impacted.

We plead that the Father of us all will provide solace to the families of the deceased and injured, and most especially, to the loved ones of those still missing in the mountain.

May God guide federal mining officials, our governor, mine operators, and our nation to take best steps now and to secure the safety of all miners in the future.

Randy and Linda Ripplinger
Fruit Heights, Utah

Chris J. | 5:46 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

Don't give up Governor Huntsman. Show some spine and don't give up, there are still unaccounted for miners down there. Let the people who are the rescuers decide whether to nobly risk their lives or not, it isn't your decision. It is the decision of their family members. You can't let the miners down their rot due to a stupid '100% guarantee of safety' policy. YOU can't eliminate risk in life, so eliminate your lack of faith and don't exert undo pressure on the mine officials to halt operations.

MurraysKillerRepublicanMoneyMine | 7:16 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

(To ï¿½Canary in a coalmineï¿½ by The Police)

First to claim an earthquake when his safety recordï¿½s less than perfect
He says things to reporters later found to be quite suspect
You can get very wealthy when you own a coalmine
Donate your money, politicians form a straight line

Republicans collect his lavish contributions
But weï¿½re supposed to believe there is no collusion
You can get very wealthy when you own a coalmine
Donate your money, politicians form a straight line

Bob Murray owns a coalmine
Murray owns a coalmine
Murray owns a coalmine

Mineworkers unions do their best to organize there
They say that Robert Murray doesnï¿½t always play fair
You can get very wealthy when you own a coalmine
Donate your money, politicians form a straight line

Bob Murray owns a coalmine
Murray owns a coalmine
Murray owns a coalmine

Because the GOP gets Murrayï¿½s contributions
If you want liberty then seek out new solutions
You can get very wealthy when you own a coalmine
Donate your money, politicians form a straight line

Bob Murray owns a coalmineï¿½.

MIchael Forsyth | 7:33 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

Could they have drilled the four vertical holes simultaneosly? I'm wondering if two drills would've moved things aong twice as fast? The fourth hole, 12 days later seems a little late to me...

Boy... | 7:47 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

It's great to see that people who haven't left their computers since this whole thing started now know the way things should have been done, and they're excited to tell us!

Terry B. | 8:03 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

I wonder if Governor Huntsman would be so quick to call off the rescue if one of his family members were one of the six still trapped? And since when does the Govenor have the authority to call off the search? Let the miners make that decision, not someone sitting behind a desk. God bless the coal miners families, it is in God that we trust not man!

K. Findlay | 8:11 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

This has been a tragic event over most of the month of August. Sometimes we have to stop and think it through, and decide as did Governor Huntsman, that enough sacrifice has been made, and it is time to leave things in the hand of a higher power. We can't always fix everything, be we can trust in someone who can.

Miguel | 8:16 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

Governor Huntsman stop using this terrible tragedy as a PR event. The miners are the heros, they know what they are doing and the risks they are taking. They risked all they had to save their brothers. You don't have a clue what they do everyday of their lives. Let the experts make decisions - you are not in charge here! Just because you and California's Governor are against coal don't wreck the coal mining economy as you pursue your personal green agenda.

oldfadedrose | 8:19 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

With all due respect Governor, leave the decision whether to carry on or leave the 6 miners abdondoned to the experts. You nor Congress have the expertise to make that decision. There is risk in every sort of rescue, should all rescue attempts be aborted? Life Flight Helicopters crash, Firemen are killed during fires. The bodies being recovered by divers from the Mississippi are not without risk, should they just leave those bodies in the river? One of those divers just might be killed.

New Yorker | 8:19 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

Aw, shucks. I say send poor, tired Bob back down there. "It's the only thing he knows."

Richard C. Shipp | 8:19 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

We have been praying for the miners and their families. I agree that mining safety needs to be and can be increased significantly. I hope new and improved safety measures will be found and implemented.

God bless the families of the fallen miners.

faith b | 8:19 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

if you do a little research you will find Mr. Bush's hand behind this,in his effort to erase all things Clinton, he allowed the government to relax rules and laws that the Clinton adm. had inacted to protect miners,thus helping the mine owners.it is
big business over the public and workers once again! Don't believe it! get on line and look it up for yourself. This isn't the only disaster waiting to happen that Mr. has created.

Justin D. | 8:23 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

I thought republican's favored smaller government and less intrusion of government into private affairs. Never a better time for that policy to be honored by our REPUBLICAN governor.

JJ | 8:37 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

Come on people (oldfadedrose & Miguel and others), if you actually READ the article it DID say that Governor Huntsman is ultimately leaving the decision to the professionals.
And, the safety of the citizens of Utah is and should be his concern.
Let's not turn the tragedy of others into something political. I hate it when anyone, on either side of the aisle does that.

Nate | 8:51 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

People who say that Governor Huntsman has "no spine" to call off the rescue efforts are flat out wrong. If anything it takes more spine to make such a decision and inform the families of the trapped miners that their loved ones will not be rescued. Calling off the rescue mission is the more difficult choice. To say that the effort will continue is the more popular policy and the one that would receive almost unwavering support. I say to Governor Huntsman, thank you for showing leadership.

Also, Gov. Huntsman never said that he will shut the rescue efforts down, but rather that he would push for that end and try to use his influence to end the rescue attempts. MSHA is the one who will legally make that decision. Gov. Huntsman is giving his opinion on the matter much like everyone on this board appears to be doing.

please | 8:54 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

Please stop using this tragedy as a political statement. I don't believe Pr. Bush has anything to do with the events and our Gov. is trying to what is best for the people he has stewardship over. I think instead of making political statements we should continue to pray for the miners and their families and support them in every way we can. Please keep your political opinions for next year when a bit of time has passed over these tragic events of the past couple of weeks. It is very disrespectful to those who have lost their lives and their families. Please show some heart! Can you imagine your spouse being 3 miles buried under a mountain? Please treat the people as family, you wouldn't try to drag this through the dirt was it your loved one.
Our prayers are with the miners and their families. May they find peace amidst this tragedy and never run into any of you trying to politicize these events.

utahgirl | 9:00 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

And in six months, when Bob Murray starts mining coal there again, where will Governor Huntsman be then?

Where was Governor Huntsman when Bob Murray was getting mine inspectors demoted? And where was Governor Huntsman when the administration made a recess appointment for Richard Stickler?

Mariel | 9:06 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

Unions, such as the mine union, used to be considered good things. But propaganda and corruption has made union membership smaller and smaller.

Time to start honoring unions again? Who else will protect workers?

T. Paine | 9:07 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

"let's focus on workplace safety like never before"- I thought the Sago mine tragedy in W. Va. was supposed to focus us like never before- Oh well. Let's deregulate! It's just the poor folks who die anyway.

Mary | 9:12 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

I understand that the Governor is concerned about the safety about the rescuers. If he wasn't he would be a terrible person. We all are worried about them, aswell as for the missing miners and their families. However, I beleive that decision of the rescue mission should probably be left to the families of the missing persons and to the rescuers. They are the ones who have family members missing and the ones who will have to pay the consequences one way or another.
Concerning the seismic actvity, at this point I am not sure what causes what. With all this drilling and digging going on all at once right now, I wouldn't be suprise if it contributed to some of the rumbling below...
All this to say it is a sad situation and I hope that the very best will come out of it now, because we had enough tragedy. We need good good news!!!

Chris F | 9:20 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

Gov. Huntsman,
Never Leave a man behind.. You Know That!!!!! Hoo Rah! God Be With These Families In This Time Of Need.

slovoice | 9:29 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

Meanwhile President Bush continues on vacation. Anyone notice that bad things happen everytime he goes to Crawford? Perhaps he should take less vacation time.

Cincinnatus | 9:49 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

Why risk further injury and death to recover corpses when they can go in at a slower and safer pace to get the bodies.

pityduhfoo | 9:56 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

That's a great idea, let's have a congressional investigation into the event since that's always sooo productive. Do politicians think that there's some sort of solace in that statement?

Richard | 10:28 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

Regarding the Bush administration's "contribution" to the this situation:

Since taking office in 2001, the Bush administration has cut funding and staff at the Mine Safety and Health Administration (MSHA), the federal agency in charge of enforcing the nationï¿½s mine safety laws. The Bush administration has eliminated 170 jobs at MSHA and proposed to cut the MSHA budget in fiscal year 2006 by some $4.9 million in real dollar terms.
http://www.aflcio.org/issues/safety/ns01052006.cfm

St. George | 10:37 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

I agree with Governor Huntsman. Letï¿½s call off the rescue. In fact the next time a hiker is stranded on a mountain top or a snowmobiler is missing we just canï¿½t take a chance on anyone getting hurt. We need a 100% guarantee of safety. Governor, I also suggest you contact the Secretary of Defense and let them know the next time an American is killed in combat just leave the body behind; we just canï¿½t risk the safety of the courageous and willing.

Cincinnatus | 10:39 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

Gov. Huntsman is not using this for a PR opportunity. He is doing his job.

A Utah Family | 10:40 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

So why do we bother to send firefighters and police officers (or SWAT teams) into dangerous situations?

I believe it is very shortsighted for Huntsman to be calling an end to the rescue effort unless he also calls for an end for firefighters to not rescue people from fires ("Sorry ma'am, we don't send firefighters into burning houses anymore to save your family because the firefighter might get hurt.") or SWAT teams to end hostage situations...after all a police officer "might" get shot. We need these heroes and the 6 miners, dead or alive, and their families need these heroes. (I'd bet miners are already lined up to be part of the rescue team to reach the 6.)

No one, even Gov. Huntsman, knows for sure if any of the 6 trapped miners are alive or dead. Maybe the survivors, if any, have broken bones and can't move to the bore holes for food or to communicate. How are you going to lift the injured 1,800 feet in a 30" diameter hole? Are you going to have them hop into the stretcher and tie themselves in?

True, MSHA needs to find a way to the 6 miners and also develop a way to more quickly implement future mine safety such as 2-way communication throughout all mines (as passed by Congress after Sago.)

Finally, may God bless and comfort the 6 miners and their families and also all the rescue miners and their families. We should remember all the heroes we call police officers, firefighters, soldiers and miners...All of them are heroes of the highest caliber willing to sacrifice their life for each of us.

Gentile | 10:56 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

I know it's not politically correct to even consider that the "trapped miners" are dead. But who does it serve to keep on pretending?

These three newest casualties didn't give there lives to save people. They died trying to locate their remains.

Tom95134 | 10:59 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

As one who lives in earthquake country I understand the need to have people that are willing to go into harms way to rescue other people. Whoever, at some point you have yto say enough. That is what the governor is saying. It's been 12 days and it's clear from the way they are poking drill holes they have no idea of where those miners might be buried.

Also, I heard this morning that the U.S.G.S. (I think) in saying that the mountian is essentially collapsing in slow motion. This is to be expected when you are working at these depths and doing retreat mining. Read the NY Times article from yesterday (not Sunday). It discusses the hazards when working in coal at these depths. You just can't depend on being able to support the overlay and it results in sidewall explosions and collapse.

Jason Smith | 11:14 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

Again, Governor Hunstsman is leaving the decision up to the officials in charge. The decision is left up to the federal officials on site. It makes me sick when a tragedy is used by people to make cheap shots at a person with whom they disagree. It is easy to make judgements when you are on the outside. We do not know the specifics of the damage in the mine, the oxygen levels of the trapped miners, or the resources available. We need to be certain that the rescue workers will be safe if they continue. I think even the families of the trapped miners would agree with ending the resuce operation if they knew it was likely that more rescue workers could die. Let us all hope for the best and trust that the people making decisions know more than us.

Annie | 11:41 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

Is the decision up to the Governor? I would think it's up tp MSHA and the mine owner. How dare they talk about leaving those men underground. Mining is dangerous. The miners knew that. Doesn't make it ok but that's how it is. We in the mining community live with this everyday. It took a month to recover the body from the Newmont mine in Northern Nevada but they did it so the family could have some sort of closure. Don't give up on these men!

PSU FAMILY | 11:59 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007

I just want to tell all the family members they're in our thoughts and prayers during this difficult time. I hope Utah soon gets some positive news.
Keep up the faith.

B.D. | 12:08 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007

When the President ONLY appoints Political cronies to high gov't post, not based on their related experience or expertise but ONLY based on their loyality to the President (note: not loyality to the Constition or the American people, only to him) THAT's what makes all these things POLITICAL. And when the good people of America point that out, the Republicans and Conseratives only can say - as their defense? - 'Hey, let's not make this politcal - ya know like how WE made Clintons' marriage a polical issuse. It is only fair and right when we do it, it is wrong and hurtful when you do it'. Just more proof of the empty moral, ethical and family value(less) ALL Republicans and Conseratives have. Republicans only run on these things - morals, family valuse and the such, not on what they would do on the real issues facing all Americans - that WHY we will always bring it back home to you - Thats whay all things are really Political. The bridge collapse in Mpls, Sago and now this -- all becuase of Bush polical appointed cronies and ALL Republicans fear of taxes (which they love to ignore: jesus actually said to Pay Taxes, if they would only read that Bible they have laying around in the car). I ask: How can America be great, when we run it on the Cheap? You would not call a cheap sports team Great, duh it works both ways.

PCB | 1:02 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007

It is amazing that anytime there is a tragedy blame is placed on one of the political parties or leaders. It is really too bad that the real issues of why things happen are set to the side while everybody is too busy placing blame.
Are Family Values and Morals not real issues facing America? One could argue that the moral decay of the nation is leading to all of these tragedies if you want to place blame... Or we can just blame it on President Bush, that would be the easier thing to do.

Proud to be American | 1:07 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007

Why is it when we have just lost three great Miners and possibly six more, do people sit and bicker and blame it on President George W. Bush and Governor Huntsman. Lets all help in the cause, comfort those who suffer, and have faith that something positive can come of this! So should we blame President Bush and Governor Huntsman for everything that goes wrong in America?....ie car wrecks, bridge collapses, you being fired etc... They are only human...I bet you couldn't do any better! If you hate America and the people running it then move out! Lets move past the blame game and help keep the faith and hope for the best in the search for the Miners!

American 2 | 1:55 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007

Bravo Proud to be an American. The people who point fingers are the ones always sitting at home doing nothing. Try voting, and being a active member of what you are pleading for and your cause anyone can arm chair quaterback. Leaders are active. It may not always be what you want but at least be active.

Davis | 3:00 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007

Unless state funds are being used for the rescue operation this isn't really something that Gov. Huntsman should be focusing on right now.

deedee56 Proud of our Miners | 3:04 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007

This is not a political arena folks. This is a gut wrenching, sad, tragic situation! Don't be so quick to blame the President , the Govenor, or whoever, for it does absolutely no good! Focus on the issue here, which as far as I can see, is rescuing or recovering the six. Ultimately the final decision will be made by MSHA, as it should. The remaining miners will not stand for a halt to find those still missing. I agree that safety is the big issue as well, but I believe their desire to find those deep in the ground was their main concern. Who can know if the ground is going to shift? Even in highly safe circumstances there are accidents. This is exactly what it is........an accident. Let's give our support, and quit wrangling about WHO is to blame! Where does that get us?

Anonymous | 3:46 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007

Gov Huntsman doesn't want to send more rescuers in to the six trapped miners (who could still be alive- we just don't know) which seems strange to me seeing as how he had people who "rescued" (medical personnel who responded to the scene) his son when he was in a motor bike accident. Should we get rid of all trained, professional rescuers??

Jan | 3:57 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007

Politics are laws and visa versa. Mining laws were weakened and that,in part, allowed the Crandall Mine to operate. It sounds like many infractions occurred at that mine whether resolved/fixed or not. I agree with someone several comments ago, if the mining unions had been allowed to operate at this site, working conditions would have been part of the contract negotiations. "Outside" eyes would have played a safety role. Sadly, we have what we have here. If the Crandall Mine is ever to operate again, let it be with the protection of the MINE WORKERS AND THEIR FAMILIES as a major goal. Let the unions do what they were designed to do - Function for the good of the workers doing this dangerous job.

inspired14u | 4:35 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007

Those who say stop talking about the "politics" are not living in this world. There are causes and effects as well as chance, so wise and caring humans do whatever possible to reduce risks.

When a tragedy strikes, you do what you can to save what you can. Part of that is to understand what happened, how it might have been avoided, and who might be responsible in the chain of events.

Saying to forget all that because it was an act of God alone is to put your head in the sand -- or worse. It is to threaten others in the future. What could be less honorable thatn that? Shame on those Who hide behind prayer without responsibility.

Anonymous | 5:37 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007

Inspired said it well. We need to trace the causality for these tragedies. Based on what we know already from the media (some of whom are doing good investigative reporting) retreat mining, shifting from one side of the mine to another after the first had collapses, and, sending rescuers into a dangerous situation all are causes of the tragedies. People who want to hide behind 'just pray about it' are ignoring the reality that there are discoverable, empirical reasons why these disasters happened. And, yes, one of them is cronyism between Bob Murray and the GOP. (He only contributes to Republicans or I would be saying Democrats, too.) We saw the very same problem with FEMA and Republican pols regarding Hurricane Katrina. Grow up, folks. It is time to face the facts.

Interloper | 5:39 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007

Inspired said it well. We need to trace the causality for these tragedies. Based on what we know already from the media (some of whom are doing good investigative reporting) retreat mining, shifting from one side of the mine to another after the first had collapses, and, sending rescuers into a dangerous situation all are causes of the tragedies. People who want to hide behind 'just pray about it' are ignoring the reality that there are discoverable, empirical reasons why these disasters happened. And, yes, one of them is cronyism between Bob Murray and the GOP. (He only contributes to Republicans or I would be saying Democrats, too.) We saw the very same problem with FEMA and Republican pols regarding Hurricane Katrina. Grow up, folks. It is time to face the facts.

J.R. | 6:49 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007

Hey faith b. Why is it all you liberal's have to start pointing finger's as soon as something happen's? There will be plenty of time to play the blame game you people so love to play after the rescue/recovery is complete. How about we focus on the mission at hand and leave biased political views out of this for now, whatta ya say to that? Oh I'm sorry, something else terrible has happened in our great country so let's blame Bush, isn't that what you liberal's do best. Have some damn respect for the victim's and their families aswell as the rescuers and save your political jargon for an appropriate time later down the road. This is America and I respect everyones right to free speech, but everything has it's time and place and right now isn't the time for political bashing or agenda pushing. Grow up and let it be. The trapped miner's and the rescue crew that lost three lives and had three injured need our prayer's and support not our contention and bickering.

faith b | 9:03 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007

you think i have not seen the pain in the picture of the little girl who looks so much like the native americans that i hold close to my heart.i know what heartache and pain look like i see it in patients faces all the time. the easy way is to ignore the reason this all happened and it isn't a natural disaster, it's a man made one. i could say i am sorry and i am. but the best way to help the miners is to make sure it does not happen again. and that means placing the blame where it lays.

James Hill | 9:14 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007

I pray that all who have lost loved ones can feel peace and an assurance they will see them again. We suffered the tragic death of our sixteen year old son 4 years ago. I can attest that you can feel at peace, knowing your loved one is all right, at the same time you suffer more grief than you think you can bear. Seek the peace because it makes the grief bearable. Remember the only way to take the sorrow out of death is to take the love out of life (Anonymous).

Let us stand together in support of the aggrieved families and not turn this into a political forum. Please, only post comments that give support to these families. A year from now there will be enough time to review and discuss the why of it all. Proctor of these comments: thank you for the opportunity, but you have let very offensive comments through. Think of the families.

Some wise counsel we received when our son died, to the family members: when you are worn down and feel you cannot talk to a single other person about this tragedy, close the door and tell the people that you need privacy and rest. The sooner you do this, the better for your health and strength. Love, the Hill family Alaska & Provo.

J.R. | 5:57 p.m. Aug. 18, 2007

faith b. I appreciate your remarks, I can sense that you are a good compassionate person. I just feel you are being too narrow on the blame spectrum. Retreat mining is a federal mandate put upon such mining operations as are the ones used here in Ut. It has been in practice for quite some time and is used in most all mines that I am aware of according to family members and friends who are coal miners in and around the central Utah area. So if you want to blame the government go ahead, but dont' single out one man or individual, blame all who are involved, including the environmental organizations who demand such practices and lobby in Washington to force such government regulations. And such organizations are and were a machine of the Clinton's.

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Governor calls for underground rescue at Utah mine to cease immediately

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Reader comments Governor calls for underground rescue at Utah mine to cease immediately

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Governor calls for underground rescue at Utah mine to cease immediately