Reader comments
Families, MSHA identify 3 miners killed in Utah coal mine cave-in
61 comments | Read story
Mike | 1:28 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007
These are all amazing people. We are blessed having their example of self
sacrifice as a example of courage, commitment and perseverance to contrast the
selfishness and greed at is too common today. These rescuers not not die in
vain. Their deaths were noble. The passing of such great people leaves earth a
more morally impoverished place. To those who know these people, your grief is
not alone. It is shared tonight in every corner of our nation.
Tragedy | 1:53 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007
Thank God for the well trained mine rescue teams. Without them there could of
been 9 deaths.
Mike Ridgway | 3:09 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007
What an awful compound tragedy for these workers, rescuers and their families.
Please know that millions of us are praying on behalf of the injured and their
families and especially for the families of those who remain trapped and those
who died in such selfless and heroic efforts to free them. May God yet bless
and comfort you all in your time of anxiety and sorrow.
Comments continue below
Shaun Williams - Phoenix,Az | 3:15 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007
I was deeply saddened to have learned along with the rest of the nation of the 3
people who lost their lives on Thursday in the ongoing heroic effort to rescue
the trapped miners. I extend my condolences to the families of the men who lost
their lives in the Crandall Mine. I pray that God will be with those who
suffered this terrible loss and will comfort and sustain them through this
difficult and trying time.
Shaun L. Williams
Shaun L. Williams
Kris South Dakota | 5:12 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007
Please except our prayers and love. These men are what true hero's really
are. Thanks to the familes for sharing your hubbies, sons and dads. They will
always be hero's in my eyes.
okieland | 6:47 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007
God bless you Utah. Oklahoma is praying for your Miners, and their famiilies.
Frances WIlde Round Mountain NV | 7:14 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007
WE ARE PRAYING FOR YOU ALL.
MAY GOD HOLD YOU IN HIS ARMS AND COMFORT YOU IN THIS YOUR MOST TRYING TIMES.
GOD BLESS YOU ALL.
MAY GOD HOLD YOU IN HIS ARMS AND COMFORT YOU IN THIS YOUR MOST TRYING TIMES.
GOD BLESS YOU ALL.
Steve | 7:51 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007
THESE RESCUE CREWS are Americas TRUE HEREOS, NOT michael jordans or Barry Bonds
etc. Moms and dads out there, share the greatest of these 'selfless'
brave men with your children, show them what a REAL heroe is...May God Bless and
touch each of the familys involved.
Gaby Herrera | 8:42 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends
(John 15: 13)
Hope | 8:58 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007
God bless the miners and their families!
anonymous | 9:04 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007
I live in Huntington. Last night, I feared for members of my family, who
remained missing for hours. Luckily, they are fine. But in those hours our
whole family felt an emense fear. Althought my family was fine, my friends were
not, many people that I knew were affected by this. We mostly greive now for the
death of Dale. He was a great person with a great heart. This is a horrible
tradgedy, and I hate for what I am about to say, but we should not sacrifice the
lives of 134, for the lives of 6.
Darthfrogass | 9:31 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007
This just sucks. What a terrible thing to happen! Hope is fading for those lost,
but our prayers and thoughts are still with them.
cds | 10:05 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007
The selfishness of Michael Vick and Pacman Jones etc. pales in response to the
heroics we've witnessed over the last 11 days. Although I now believe the
rescue efforts probably should stop, what we have witnessed has been equal to
the heroics of the Fire and Police men/women of 9/11 and most of our troops
since. America haters can say what they want . . . but, we are still a strong,
wonderful nation when it counts.
cindy | 10:17 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007
I live in California but I grew up in this part of Utah and watched miners go to
work every day. My uncles both worked in the mines as did so many of my
neighbors and it was just part of living in this part of Utah. These communities
are tight and really care about one another. For those who are not familiar with
this kind of life, these men died doing what they knew would be done for them
had they been in the same situation. These are good people and my love and
prayers go out to them and their families.
tough question | 10:19 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007
Why did these men have to wait for an ambulance to be sent? In a situation as
dangerous as this has been, there should have been medical personnel and
ambulances on site at all times. There is no excuse for stupidity.
Kay, Gilbert Arizona | 10:46 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his
friends. - John 15:13
God bless and be with the family and friends of all those working in or associated with the mine.
God bless and be with the family and friends of all those working in or associated with the mine.
Family ties | 10:52 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007
My father and grandfather were both miners in Utah. My grandfather spent more
than 23 years in the mines, my father, spent 6. My grandfather died in his bed,
my dad, still living, is pacing through this ordeal. He watches the news, reads,
makes phone calls, and I watch in wonder as he suffers over something "that
could have happened to him" more than 40 years ago. He doesn't know
any of the miners nor rescue workers, but it hardly matters to him. A Veteran of
the Korean conflict, he said, "As in war, you would do anything (in the
moment) to save your brothers in arms...the miners are no different, they are
brothers whether they share the same blood or not. There will be many who will
be angry when told that they can dig no longer."
A Paradox and a Thought | 11:19 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007
I just had this thought for what it is worth:
Mine: a hole in the ground where we harvest resources.
Mine: It is MINE and not yours.
Miners: People who say it is mine and not yours.
These men are anything but the definition of miner that I just posted above. They gave their all to try and save their fallen / lost brothers.
God bless their souls, and may they rest in peace. My thoughts, prayers, and condolences to those that are left behing in sorrow.
Las Vegas, NV
Mine: a hole in the ground where we harvest resources.
Mine: It is MINE and not yours.
Miners: People who say it is mine and not yours.
These men are anything but the definition of miner that I just posted above. They gave their all to try and save their fallen / lost brothers.
God bless their souls, and may they rest in peace. My thoughts, prayers, and condolences to those that are left behing in sorrow.
Las Vegas, NV
Native Texan | 11:31 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007
My thoughts and prayers are the miners, the people trying to rescuse them and
their families. What a tragic turn of events.
I have to agree with a previous poster. Why wern't there ambulances and medical personnel standing by at the site? I heard it took at least 25-30 minutes for the ambulances to arrive.
I have to agree with a previous poster. Why wern't there ambulances and medical personnel standing by at the site? I heard it took at least 25-30 minutes for the ambulances to arrive.
Florida girl | 11:49 a.m. Aug. 17, 2007
Although I have no idea what it is to be a miner or part of a mining family...we
don't have those on this side of the country...my heart deeply goes out to
all of those involved in this tragedy. Thanks for your great love and sacrifice
to make my simple, humble life in Florida richer and more lavish because of the
work you do. We need all types of people to make a society function...miners
are on the top of my list.
Tough Answer | 12:00 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007
To answer the posting by Tough Question...
They had 2 ambulances at the mine at all times during the operation (that was mentioned several times by all media coverage I saw). So they had to call for reinforements. Do you expect them to have 11 ambulances parked at the mine at all times just in case they have the unimaginable mass casualties they experienced last night?
There may be no excuse for stupidity but there's also no excuse for blaming people because you are uninformed.
They had 2 ambulances at the mine at all times during the operation (that was mentioned several times by all media coverage I saw). So they had to call for reinforements. Do you expect them to have 11 ambulances parked at the mine at all times just in case they have the unimaginable mass casualties they experienced last night?
There may be no excuse for stupidity but there's also no excuse for blaming people because you are uninformed.
Anonymous | 12:03 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007
The time spent after the latest cave in, was the people on site, rescuing the
rescurers. They were better prepared to take care of the injured than the
EMT's and others. The emergency personal were not as far away as you
believe, but they had to wait to know their services were needed - by that I
mean it took time to stabilize the injured and bring them out of the mine. We
would like things to happen in an instant, but as in any emergency; it takes
time to get everything taken care of. The best was done, and will continue to
be done.
Tempe, Arizona | 12:57 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007
Love and many many prayers from Arizona. We are one of the most powerful
nations on the earth. Why can't someone get some help with machinery and
personnel from our own military, before anyone else gets hurt? We can launch a
ship to go millions of miles up in the sky and we can't even help our own
country men one and a half miles away.
WV Mountaineer | 1:48 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007
I'm in West Virginia, and those of us in this state truly understand what
the family and friends of those lost are going through. My thoughts and prayers
are with all of those who are suffering at this terrible time. Those who work
in and around the mines are truly special people, and are our everyday heroes.
I'm so sorry for your loss.
Please Edit! | 1:54 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007
This has indeed been a terrible tragedy. My heart goes out to those who have
sacrificed and their families.
I was frustrated reading this article by some very poor writing / editing. At one point a woman is quoted as saying: "It's really hard," she said. "My dad is crushed.". As far as I can tell, her father is not among the injured. In any case, it was a shockingly poor choice of words. Can't blame the woman for her usage, but I would hope a thoughtful editor could have been a little more sensitive in what they put in the article.
A second MAJOR mistake: "A rescuer who was taken to University Hospital in Salt Lake City is listed this morning in fair condition, hospital spokeswoman Chantelle Turner said.A devastating blow
The turn of events has left the mining communities reeling." (spacing is exactly as it was in article)
Are we supposed to feel that the rescuer being in fair condition is a devastating blow and the mining communities are reeling?
Particularly in such tragic events I would like to see more careful writing. I understand that this second cave-in was indeed a devastating blow. It must not be part of the same paragraph as the miraculous condition of one of the survivors!
Please, be sensitive to the feelings and pains those affected. It would be fantastic if the original 6 missing miners can be rescued, but it is hard to watch more people suffer and even die trying to rescue people who may or may not ever be rescued.
I was frustrated reading this article by some very poor writing / editing. At one point a woman is quoted as saying: "It's really hard," she said. "My dad is crushed.". As far as I can tell, her father is not among the injured. In any case, it was a shockingly poor choice of words. Can't blame the woman for her usage, but I would hope a thoughtful editor could have been a little more sensitive in what they put in the article.
A second MAJOR mistake: "A rescuer who was taken to University Hospital in Salt Lake City is listed this morning in fair condition, hospital spokeswoman Chantelle Turner said.A devastating blow
The turn of events has left the mining communities reeling." (spacing is exactly as it was in article)
Are we supposed to feel that the rescuer being in fair condition is a devastating blow and the mining communities are reeling?
Particularly in such tragic events I would like to see more careful writing. I understand that this second cave-in was indeed a devastating blow. It must not be part of the same paragraph as the miraculous condition of one of the survivors!
Please, be sensitive to the feelings and pains those affected. It would be fantastic if the original 6 missing miners can be rescued, but it is hard to watch more people suffer and even die trying to rescue people who may or may not ever be rescued.
Taylorsville, UT | 2:09 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007
This tragedy is news worthy, but the news media are making me sick!! Why do
they ask so many stupid questions? Mayor Joe Piccolo, and hospital
Administrator Jeff Manley were bombarded with the most insensitive, moronic
questions I have ever heard. Like... "How did you feel when you heard the
news?" Isn't it rather obvious this is a TRAGEDY, how should one
feel?? Come on media people, report the news and quit being so stupid, nobody
wants to hear that!
tough answers | 2:15 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007
In a situation as unstable as this, there is no excuse not to have been better
prepared. I have relatives who are coal miners and believe me I know what I
speak of when I say there is no excuse for stupidity. I'm not uninformed.
I'm not blaming any one person becuase I don't know who is
responsible, but there needs to be answers to these tough questions.
Yonkers, NY | 2:20 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007
God Bless all of those in Utah affected by this tragedy. Our thoughts and
prayers are with them.Our hopes continue...
The members of the rescue team are the true heroes of our world.May God keep them safe.
The members of the rescue team are the true heroes of our world.May God keep them safe.
JEFF FROM PRICE UTAH | 2:24 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007
AS I READ THESE COMMENTS, I HAVE SEVERAL FRIENDS IN THERE AND IT TRULY IS
HEARTINING TO KNOW THAT YOU ARE ALL THINKING ABOUT ALL OF US IN THIS SAD TIME
.PLEASE KEEP US IN YOUR THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS AS THIS IS LOOKS AS IT WILL BE A
LONG AND TRYING WEEKEND.PERSONELLY, YES, I BELIVE THAT MY FRIENDS ARE ALIVE AND
WAITING FOR US AS I WOULD WAIT FOR THEM IF IT WERE ME IN THAT SITUATION.AGAIN ,
THANK ALL OF YOU AND STAY WITH US. MY NAME IS JEFF FROM CARBON COUNTY UTAH.
Doug Barber | 2:44 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007
Here is a quote from "Drilling under way for fourth hole to reach Utah
miners", Deseret Morning News, 12:12 PM MDT August 16 2007:
"More questions are being raised about the safety of the mine, both prior to the collapse and now as rescuers work frantically.
"Murray confirmed that a dozen workers who had helped dig the main tunnel underground asked to be switched to another assignment. He strongly denied that the men asked to be reassigned because they had concerns about the mine's safety. Instead, he said, the men felt "uncomfortable" and their situation "was not sitting well with them." He did not elaborate."
'Nuff said.
"More questions are being raised about the safety of the mine, both prior to the collapse and now as rescuers work frantically.
"Murray confirmed that a dozen workers who had helped dig the main tunnel underground asked to be switched to another assignment. He strongly denied that the men asked to be reassigned because they had concerns about the mine's safety. Instead, he said, the men felt "uncomfortable" and their situation "was not sitting well with them." He did not elaborate."
'Nuff said.
lifer | 3:09 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007
Doug Barber, that same story hit me as soon as I heard about the latest tragedy.
First things first, and the miners and their families come first.
However, when the immediate crisis is dealt with, Mr. Murray must answer some pretty tough questions, and must be held accountable for those he can't properly answer.
First things first, and the miners and their families come first.
However, when the immediate crisis is dealt with, Mr. Murray must answer some pretty tough questions, and must be held accountable for those he can't properly answer.
Jerry - Texas | 3:09 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007
There are many questions about the safety of the mine that need to be answered.
But that will happen after the rescue/recovery operations have conculded.
God Bless the all the miners and their families at this time of sorrow
God Bless the all the miners and their families at this time of sorrow
deedee56 You Are In Our Prayers | 3:17 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007
To the families of the missing miners and to the families of the miners who gave
their lives, I would like to say that you are all in our thoughts and prayers.
I cannot imagine your pain, and sorrow, but know that the people of Utah are
grieveing and hoping with you. I hope you will feel the comfort of the Holy
Spirit, and feel the love and concern of a grateful state. The men and women
who keep our country going strong are truly the real HEROS. The people of Price
can be fiercely proud of the calber of their citizens. God bless them all.
G & S, TX | 3:27 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007
We cannot imagine the horror and uncertainty of this mine situation. Our
thoughts and prayers are for ALL who have suffered losses in mining
accidents.
May God bless everyone with extra comfort and peace
and love in the difficult days ahead.
May God bless everyone with extra comfort and peace
and love in the difficult days ahead.
SLC Reader | 3:34 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007
I was devastated by the news of the latest tragedy. My heart goes out to the
hurting men and their families. I know it's not enough. I'm not sure
what to do. I hope to find some way to offer meaningful help.
I would like to echo the comments above about how ANNOYING the media is in these circumstances. First, one news station is blasting the mine owner for allowing another news station's reporter in the mine for a look. A reporter asks a hospital administrator to remark on mine rescue operations. Oh, and and my favorite - the mine owner wasn't at the press conference and "it doesn't look good," so let's speculate!
There will be thorough investigations of this mining disaster in due time. How about if we all (especially politicians and media) focus on the facts as they unfold and quit trying getting ahead of ourselves in the blame game.
I would like to echo the comments above about how ANNOYING the media is in these circumstances. First, one news station is blasting the mine owner for allowing another news station's reporter in the mine for a look. A reporter asks a hospital administrator to remark on mine rescue operations. Oh, and and my favorite - the mine owner wasn't at the press conference and "it doesn't look good," so let's speculate!
There will be thorough investigations of this mining disaster in due time. How about if we all (especially politicians and media) focus on the facts as they unfold and quit trying getting ahead of ourselves in the blame game.
Anonymous | 3:42 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007
To: Please Edit!
I felt the same way about both articles. What is wrong with these news editors that they don't catch such awful sounding articles. C'mon folks- proof read before you print!!
I felt the same way about both articles. What is wrong with these news editors that they don't catch such awful sounding articles. C'mon folks- proof read before you print!!
Ryan, Orem, UT | 4:12 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007
I knew one of the rescue workers that died last night. He was a great man and
raised a great family. I grew up with one of his sons. What these men did is
the purest form of selflessness. They risked their lives to save others. This
is a great tragedy. I hope that we all keep the families of those effected by
the past 12 days in our prayers.
Doug Barber | 4:35 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007
A wise Christian from antiquity said, "Pray as though everything depended
on God. Work as though everything depended on you."
I would think that "work", at this point, involves getting Mr. Murray with his remarkable capacity for self-delsion as far from that mine, or any other place where human lives are at risk, as possible.
I would think that "work", at this point, involves getting Mr. Murray with his remarkable capacity for self-delsion as far from that mine, or any other place where human lives are at risk, as possible.
Connie Butler | 4:41 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007
We are all praying 4 u..........Your in our prayers and Thoughts all the
time,God Be With All of You.....
Connie
Connie
matt | 4:46 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007
As for the ambulances, these are really small towns. 6 or 7 ambulances probably
represented all of the ambulances in the area including neighboring towns. It
would be unreasonable to expect all the ambulances from the entire area to be
parked at the mine. What if someone else had an emergency?
Kay Lynn | 5:18 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007
Ditto on John 15:13. This is when we need to pull together not only as a state,
but a community as well. Even though it happened in a different part of the
state, we need to continue with our prayers and, most of all, optimism, hope,
and faith in this major tragedy. My dad was a gypsum miner west of Las Vegas
(Blue Diamond Mine) for almost 20 years with other mining jobs before that
because he loved what he did. It was a risky job, but he did it anyways. When
you get right down to it, anything is risky. Look at what just happened in
Minnesota! It could happen to you, and it could happen to me. You never know.
God bless the miners, rescuers, their families and all the communities involved
in this heartbreaking event.
Lowell | 5:29 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007
I have immense respect for Mr. Murray. He has obviously been working almost
around the clock doing everything within his power to do his best under the most
tragic of circumstances. Mr. Murray is a wonderful example of the best that
America has in such responsible ownership positions. May God also bless and
comfort him in this hour(s) of trial, in addition to the others who have
sacrificed so much.
Debbie | 5:35 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007
As a daughter of a Kentucky coal miner who died in a mine accident over 35 yrs
ago, my heart is breaking for the families, those known to be lost and those
feared lost. No matter how many years pass, I will always share the hurt.
lady from newengland | 5:59 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007
MY HEART GOES OUT TO ALL OF THE FAMILY MEMBERS OF THE UTAH MINERS, I COULD NOT
EVEN THINK OF HOW I WOULD FEEL IF A MEMBER OF MINE WERE THERE AS WELL ..I PRAY
EVERY NIGHT THAT THE MEN ARE FOUND SAFE AND ALIVE, GOD BE WITH EACH AND EVERY
ONE OF YOU AND AS FOR THE MEN THAT TRYED TO GET TO THESE MEN THAT WAS THE
BRAVES THING ANY ONE COULD DO ,IT SHOWS THAT PEOPLE DO CARE ,AND THAT LOVE WILL
GO A LONG WAY .. MY HEART GOES OUT TO THEIR FAMILYS AS WELL
GOD BLESS AND KEEP PRAYING
LADY IN NEW ENGLAND
GOD BLESS AND KEEP PRAYING
LADY IN NEW ENGLAND
Robert Jones | 6:06 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007
My prayers are with all of the families of those wonderful men, who died while
living out a dream. Also to those valiant men of God; who gave their lives in an
effort to save another. God be with you my friends. -Robert
Doug Barber | 6:23 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007
Statements like this are not really helpful to anyone I know or can imagine
knowing:
"Mr. Murray is a wonderful example of the best that America has in such responsible ownership positions."
Something's wrong there, and I doubt that the opinion expressed there represents the opinion of even a tiny sliver of readers of the Deseret News.
"Mr. Murray is a wonderful example of the best that America has in such responsible ownership positions."
Something's wrong there, and I doubt that the opinion expressed there represents the opinion of even a tiny sliver of readers of the Deseret News.
MaryLou Harper | 7:43 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007
Amen to Doug Barber. Something is very wrong with comments that praise Bob
Murray. We all mourn for the brave rescuers and victimized miners who lost their
lives in Murray's mine. But now we need to turn our attention to the living
miners working in essentially unregulated, dangerous conditions across the
nation. Murray's isn't the only killer mine and his will not be the
last massacre perpetrated on honest, hard working "blue collar"
miners. More will die if we fail to demand the safety federal regulators refuse
to impose on people like Bob Murray.
Mesa, AZ | 8:01 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007
Please pass on to Mr. Murray our prayers and support in this horrendous time.
Of course we all share the pain of the miner families, but dear Mr. Murray is
carrying a burden beyond belief and must remember he is no less important a
person, looked to by many, for answers that may never come. Many of us watching
this unfold wish we could give him a hug and help him through this most
unbearable trial. I hope he is getting the care and attention he needs as he
gives his all to his mining families.
Love in Las Vegas | 8:17 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007
In defense of those attacking Mr Murray-blame won't undo this tragedy and
according to the MSHA stats on the violations--the fines and violations are well
below the
average.(http://www.msha.gov/Genwal/CrandallCanyonQ&A's08092007.pdf)
Lets focus on the heroes and pray for the families who have lost loved ones
rather than place judgement on a man for being successful. He deserves support
also.
Colorado | 8:24 p.m. Aug. 17, 2007
My thoughts and prayers go out to my neighbors in Huntington and Price.
Add your comment
Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.
Words Remaining
E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.
Related content
- Budget 2010: Transportation 11:45 p.m.
- Budget 2010: Higher education 11:45 p.m.
- Budget 2010: Public education 11:45 p.m.
- Budget 2010: Public safety 11:45 p.m.
- Budget 2010: Corrections 11:45 p.m.
- Budget 2010: Public health 11:45 p.m.
- Big shots help Lone Peak edge Lehi 11:42 p.m.
- Choir, guests unwrap musical magic 11:41 p.m.
- Budget hinges on economic growth 11:35 p.m.
- Council members to say goodbye 11:30 p.m.
- Letters: Global warming a lie
277 - BYU football: Bronco weighs in on Hall195
- Palin signs books, chats with fans169
- Andersen apologizes for Jordan hoax143
- Nude bathers cited for lewdness138
- Max Hall wants to look ahead130
- Jazz fall apart late at L.A.110
- LDS to emphasize helping needy107
- Revive full food tax?106
- Panel passes BCS playoff bill105
David Rankin, one of Utah's youngest and ablest astrophotographers has...
There was a time when free shipping was rare. This holiday season, you...
Can you tell I just got out of a budget meeting with Gov Gary Herbert?
Latest comments
...has had a home invasion. None. I know several people who've died by...
Thanks Mom.
D O U B T!
I alaways make sure to rush out and buy the Christmas concert DVD as soon as...
Priesthood Authority: So many people today fail to recognize the Power of...
I just realized thia is on Verus... Looks like I am going to the HC tomorrow!!
It was a rather difficult experience, not so much for me, as for the...
That's it? That's the whole story? I can't believe that with the tenacity...
they can start in West Valley
No one has yet mentioned the obvious choice, clearly showing the ignorance...
Advertisements