We treat humans differently than other species because, as a species, we can be
arrogant and selfish and driven by needless wants. And unfortunately, we often
treat those humans who are different than us--whether in terms of sexual
orientation, physical appearance, or what have you--with a cold and blind lack
of compassion and brotherhood.
I suppose one might also say that since our tools and forms of writing are
geared toward people who are right-handed, then ALL human beings must be
naturally right-handed, and left-handedness is just an abnormality. But actually
just as being left-handed is a naturally-occurring variation of manual
dexterity, so being Gay a naturally-occurring variation of human sexuality.
Is Larsen's comment intended to show his expertise in biology, anatomy,
psychology or something else, perhaps religion? Looks to me he's in over his
head, though no one has told him so - until now.
The issue is not whether homosexuality is abnormal or not statistically - it
clearly is, but that's not what makes it bad for humanity. It is the
enormous physical and psychological damage done by homosexuality that makes it
something to be avoided, abandoned and cured wherever possible. Just
because something occurs for biological reasons does not make it OK. And just
because something brings physical pleasure does not make it OK.
Interesting thing is others who have commented use the same flawed logic to
repudiate this commentary, i.e. biology. No one has proven that homosexuality
is biological in origin. Identical twins exist in which one is hetero and the
other homosexual. If it cannot be proven to have a genetic or biological
component, then either argument may be valid.
Wow, Deseret News - would you do the same and publish KKK letters to the editor?
Think about that for a while. What kind of dialog are you trying to spread?
Heterosexual relationships sometimes result in
"enormous physical and psychological damage" (not always of course, but the same
can be said for homosexuality), so should we avoid, abandon, and cure those
types of "urges" too?
And don't you think that some of the
"physical and psychological damage" that homosexuality supposedly causes is
caused by a society that views homosexuality as a disease and something that
should be "cured" (through shock therapy, perhaps), and not necessarily an
inherent aspect of homosexuality?
I am so tempted to continue to argue on her how narrow and bigited some prople
are but A good friend reminded me that I can't change there ming Bigitory and
discrimination are so well ingrained in people that they just can't open up
their minds and hearts and to learn to love people for who and what they are so
I have decided to just let them live in their dream world thinking that they are
so right no matter how it effects others
P.S. people do not choose
ther sexuality yoo can not prove it or disprove it so quit trying and let people
live
People like Chuck are still bandying about this tired and disproven argument
that "since there exist pairs of identical twins where one member is gay and the
other is straight, that proves there's no genetic component to
homosexuality."
In fact, for more than 15 years, scientific,
peer-reviewed studies have shown again and again that, indeed, homosexuality has
a genetic component: In sets of identical male twins where one twin was gay,
there was a 53% likelihood that the brother was likewise gay. That compared to a
22% percent likelihood of fraternal twins, and 11% likelihood among adopted
brothers. (Archives of General Psychiatry, vol. 48:1089-1096, December 1991.)
Clearly this shows a marked genetic component for homosexuality.
Of course, now it will be time for the gay-haters to switch to their "it
doesn't matter whether it's genetic or not; gays should fight against their
nature and conform to our wishes because our God says so" argument.
The critical difference, TC,
is that the damage done by homosexuality is much greater than what damage may be
unique to heterosexuality, combined with the fact that heterosexuality
compensates for that damage by being able to bring children into the world -
homosexuality has no such compensation for the decreased life expectancy, higher
deah & disease rates, and higher rates of psychological complications it
brings.
And the myth that opposition to same-sex attraction is to
blame for higher gay depression and suicide rates is old and widespread, but
largely unfounded. In the gay-friendliest places in the world, depression &
suicide rates aren't lower - they are the same or higher. So something else
must be driving those higher rates besides people not approving of their
lifestyles.
Live and let live? Should we say the same about the child molester? Or the
outspoken members of NAMBLA? Or the rapist? All of whom use the same arguement
for their actions? They suffer from abnormal tendencies, and have difficulty
controlling their behavior. They will suffer from their 'attraction' their
whole life.
Voice of Reason is right - it's just that it's
politically incorrect to discuss the ills that homosexuality brings to
society.
Yes, most people have to live their whole life not living
out their sexual fantacies and abnormal desires for intimacy, instead opting for
a life of morality. Many have shown it's possible. It's strange that political
correctness allows gays to throw up their hands and say "I was born this way, so
therefore I don't have to modify this behavior", and ignore all other behavior
that can be traced back to early origins
You know, the thing I find so funny about all this is that those with homosexual
tendencies always accuse the religious straight people of trying to force their
view upon the world. Yet you never hear of a straight person strutting around
with their heterosexuality as their sole source of identity. Not so with the
homosexuals.
Those with same sex tendencies are the ones who force
the world to conform and accept them for who they are when all along their
tendencies are the height of selfishness. You are solely interested in self
gratification and nothing or little more. In gay relationships, it seams that
relationships are more for convenience and easily dissolved when the attraction
is gone, and be darned with anybody else who may be harmed. Case in point, one
need only look to Elton John or any of the other gay celebs of the time to see
this height of selfishness. In the case with Elton John, he married, fathered
children and then came out to his wife and said he was fooling himself. No
consideration was given to his poor wife who must surely have wondered what was
inadequate with her to cause her husband to "go to the other side." No
consideration was given to his son and the damage this may have inflicted upon
him.
This is not a criticism focused just on the homosexuals,
however, we have become a society that is governed by sex. Everything is for
sex. Sex is the sole defining attribute for almost all of us. WE look for the
next sexual fix and only that. No longer are we interested in the perpetuation
of our species. WE just need that sex. Sadly, I see the homosexual crowd as
being the ones who are the most selfish as it seems the sex they are most
interested in is, once again, self gratification without the concern of
inadvertently bringing a child into the world.
IT is this fact that
I take issue with, not with the individual, be they gay or straight. If you want
to be gay, fine! More power to you!! But don't FORCE me to accept it or embrace
it. As a person I am sure you are great and I would likely befriend you, but
don't expect me to want to hear about your perverse sexual exploits. I wouldn't
want want to hear about them from a straight person. However, the homosexual
crowd seems to think that I should, as they flaunt it around and march in
protest when I don't.
There is far more things of greater purpose in
life than sex. Number one being that of bringing a child into this world, and
devoting your time and energy for THEM!!!! This being achieved through a BINDING
union between the parents to that end.
MEB your argument is old and tired. I have a friend who worked as a social
worker at the prison for several years. 90% of the peodphiles and child
molesters are hetrosexual so linking them that mental disease with a homosexual
just does not stand up.
In addition, if two consenting adults are
homosexual and get together it is no different than 2 consenting adults that are
hetrosexual getting together.
I agree that those who would prey
upon others such as a rapist or child molester have no good argument for their
behavior, but they do not fit in the same category as a homosexual.
If ONLY 90% of pedophiles and child rapists are heterosexual
then homosexuals are grossly over represented among such criminals. Homosexuals
only make up about 3% of the population. So, statistically, they should account
for no more than about 3% of all crimes, including sex crimes against
children.
However, if your assertion is correct that homosexuals
account for a full 10% of pedophiles and child molesters that would mean that
homosexuals are THREE TIMES more likely to molest than are heterosexuals.
Or did you want to revise you numbers by making up more statistics on
the spot?
Someday the old and tired arguments against same-sex marriage will be remembered
the same way we now look back at the laws that forbid a white and black person
from marring. That is really going to burn some of the people on this thread who
would probably defend those retarded and outdated laws. meb; I said live
and let live. Rapists and child molesters (mostly straight) are not doing the
let live part so they wouldn't qualify.
To clarify 90% are those in prison for child molestation and pedophilia are
identified as hetrosexual the other 10% indentify sexually in some other
category with LESS THAN 1/2% in the homosexual category. The 9.5% plus can't,
won't,or are unable indentify there sexuality. So the majority population of
those who committ sex crimes in prison are still hetrosexual.
AH if it were just that simple
We treat humans differently than other species because, as a species, we can be arrogant and selfish and driven by needless wants. And unfortunately, we often treat those humans who are different than us--whether in terms of sexual orientation, physical appearance, or what have you--with a cold and blind lack of compassion and brotherhood.
I suppose one might also say that since our tools and forms of writing are geared toward people who are right-handed, then ALL human beings must be naturally right-handed, and left-handedness is just an abnormality. But actually just as being left-handed is a naturally-occurring variation of manual dexterity, so being Gay a naturally-occurring variation of human sexuality.
Is Larsen's comment intended to show his expertise in biology, anatomy, psychology or something else, perhaps religion? Looks to me he's in over his head, though no one has told him so - until now.
It must be a very slow news day for Mr. Larsen. Good grief.
More Utah-brand bigotry from Mr. Larsen.
The issue is not whether homosexuality is abnormal or not statistically - it clearly is, but that's not what makes it bad for humanity.
It is the enormous physical and psychological damage done by homosexuality that makes it something to be avoided, abandoned and cured wherever possible.
Just because something occurs for biological reasons does not make it OK. And just because something brings physical pleasure does not make it OK.
Interesting thing is others who have commented use the same flawed logic to repudiate this commentary, i.e. biology. No one has proven that homosexuality is biological in origin. Identical twins exist in which one is hetero and the other homosexual. If it cannot be proven to have a genetic or biological component, then either argument may be valid.
Wow, Deseret News - would you do the same and publish KKK letters to the editor? Think about that for a while. What kind of dialog are you trying to spread?
How about this; Live and let live.
Voice of Reason?
Heterosexual relationships sometimes result in "enormous physical and psychological damage" (not always of course, but the same can be said for homosexuality), so should we avoid, abandon, and cure those types of "urges" too?
And don't you think that some of the "physical and psychological damage" that homosexuality supposedly causes is caused by a society that views homosexuality as a disease and something that should be "cured" (through shock therapy, perhaps), and not necessarily an inherent aspect of homosexuality?
I am so tempted to continue to argue on her how narrow and bigited some prople are but A good friend reminded me that I can't change there ming Bigitory and discrimination are so well ingrained in people that they just can't open up their minds and hearts and to learn to love people for who and what they are so I have decided to just let them live in their dream world thinking that they are so right no matter how it effects others
P.S. people do not choose ther sexuality yoo can not prove it or disprove it so quit trying and let people live
People like Chuck are still bandying about this tired and disproven argument that "since there exist pairs of identical twins where one member is gay and the other is straight, that proves there's no genetic component to homosexuality."
In fact, for more than 15 years, scientific, peer-reviewed studies have shown again and again that, indeed, homosexuality has a genetic component: In sets of identical male twins where one twin was gay, there was a 53% likelihood that the brother was likewise gay. That compared to a 22% percent likelihood of fraternal twins, and 11% likelihood among adopted brothers. (Archives of General Psychiatry, vol. 48:1089-1096, December 1991.)
Clearly this shows a marked genetic component for homosexuality.
Of course, now it will be time for the gay-haters to switch to their "it doesn't matter whether it's genetic or not; gays should fight against their nature and conform to our wishes because our God says so" argument.
Yeah - hi, Sparky. It has been awhile.
The critical difference, TC, is that the damage done by homosexuality is much greater than what damage may be unique to heterosexuality, combined with the fact that heterosexuality compensates for that damage by being able to bring children into the world - homosexuality has no such compensation for the decreased life expectancy, higher deah & disease rates, and higher rates of psychological complications it brings.
And the myth that opposition to same-sex attraction is to blame for higher gay depression and suicide rates is old and widespread, but largely unfounded. In the gay-friendliest places in the world, depression & suicide rates aren't lower - they are the same or higher. So something else must be driving those higher rates besides people not approving of their lifestyles.
Live and let live? Should we say the same about the child molester? Or the outspoken members of NAMBLA? Or the rapist? All of whom use the same arguement for their actions? They suffer from abnormal tendencies, and have difficulty controlling their behavior. They will suffer from their 'attraction' their whole life.
Voice of Reason is right - it's just that it's politically incorrect to discuss the ills that homosexuality brings to society.
Yes, most people have to live their whole life not living out their sexual fantacies and abnormal desires for intimacy, instead opting for a life of morality. Many have shown it's possible. It's strange that political correctness allows gays to throw up their hands and say "I was born this way, so therefore I don't have to modify this behavior", and ignore all other behavior that can be traced back to early origins
You know, the thing I find so funny about all this is that those with homosexual tendencies always accuse the religious straight people of trying to force their view upon the world. Yet you never hear of a straight person strutting around with their heterosexuality as their sole source of identity. Not so with the homosexuals.
Those with same sex tendencies are the ones who force the world to conform and accept them for who they are when all along their tendencies are the height of selfishness. You are solely interested in self gratification and nothing or little more. In gay relationships, it seams that relationships are more for convenience and easily dissolved when the attraction is gone, and be darned with anybody else who may be harmed. Case in point, one need only look to Elton John or any of the other gay celebs of the time to see this height of selfishness. In the case with Elton John, he married, fathered children and then came out to his wife and said he was fooling himself. No consideration was given to his poor wife who must surely have wondered what was inadequate with her to cause her husband to "go to the other side." No consideration was given to his son and the damage this may have inflicted upon him.
This is not a criticism focused just on the homosexuals, however, we have become a society that is governed by sex. Everything is for sex. Sex is the sole defining attribute for almost all of us. WE look for the next sexual fix and only that. No longer are we interested in the perpetuation of our species. WE just need that sex. Sadly, I see the homosexual crowd as being the ones who are the most selfish as it seems the sex they are most interested in is, once again, self gratification without the concern of inadvertently bringing a child into the world.
IT is this fact that I take issue with, not with the individual, be they gay or straight. If you want to be gay, fine! More power to you!! But don't FORCE me to accept it or embrace it. As a person I am sure you are great and I would likely befriend you, but don't expect me to want to hear about your perverse sexual exploits. I wouldn't want want to hear about them from a straight person. However, the homosexual crowd seems to think that I should, as they flaunt it around and march in protest when I don't.
There is far more things of greater purpose in life than sex. Number one being that of bringing a child into this world, and devoting your time and energy for THEM!!!! This being achieved through a BINDING union between the parents to that end.
MEB your argument is old and tired. I have a friend who worked as a social worker at the prison for several years. 90% of the peodphiles and child molesters are hetrosexual so linking them that mental disease with a homosexual just does not stand up.
In addition, if two consenting adults are homosexual and get together it is no different than 2 consenting adults that are hetrosexual getting together.
I agree that those who would prey upon others such as a rapist or child molester have no good argument for their behavior, but they do not fit in the same category as a homosexual.
Joe H,
If ONLY 90% of pedophiles and child rapists are heterosexual then homosexuals are grossly over represented among such criminals. Homosexuals only make up about 3% of the population. So, statistically, they should account for no more than about 3% of all crimes, including sex crimes against children.
However, if your assertion is correct that homosexuals account for a full 10% of pedophiles and child molesters that would mean that homosexuals are THREE TIMES more likely to molest than are heterosexuals.
Or did you want to revise you numbers by making up more statistics on the spot?
Someday the old and tired arguments against same-sex marriage will be remembered the same way we now look back at the laws that forbid a white and black person from marring. That is really going to burn some of the people on this thread who would probably defend those retarded and outdated laws.
meb; I said live and let live. Rapists and child molesters (mostly straight) are not doing the let live part so they wouldn't qualify.
To clarify 90% are those in prison for child molestation and pedophilia are identified as hetrosexual the other 10% indentify sexually in some other category with LESS THAN 1/2% in the homosexual category. The 9.5% plus can't, won't,or are unable indentify there sexuality. So the majority population of those who committ sex crimes in prison are still hetrosexual.
DeseretNews.com encourages a civil dialogue among its readers. We welcome your thoughtful comments.
— About comments