Fumarase Deficiency afflicts 20, is linked to marriages of close kin
They should just let them die out. Removing yourself from the genepool is a
good thing if you think that marrying your niece or aunt is ok. Having children
with them is a more serious matter, something that is outlawed and should not
have endured for this long. The same goes for polygamy. It is not your
religious right to break laws, the laws against inbreeding are there for the
good of your children and the people they marry. If it was someones religious
right to break laws then all of the terrorists who blew up the Twin Towers were
just expressing their religious freedoms. Someone needs to stop this before it
escalates even further.
Why don't they do vasectomies on all the males? Or sterilize the females. I
realize that they are brainwashed in the two communities, but there has to be
someone that can stop this inhumane practice. The taxpayers of Utah and Arizona
are footing the bills for the medical care, plus the welfare that they are
receiving to survive. One man in the community, can father over 100 children,
and some do. I am very appalled by what I read of the two communities and
People living by a Celestial law . . . raising Celestial children. God blesses
people with children. He trust his special children to special parents. Keep
up the good work.
Huh? "he trusts special children with special parents"??? Is it also special
that the fathers rape there daughters? This has nothing to do with god and is
just sick.I grew up in an abusive religion called the Christian
Missionary Alliance. It wasn't nearly as bad as what these the Later Day Saints
kids are going through but it still gives me nightmares sometimes. I can only
imagine what these little girls go through.
We could sterilize all of them. While we're at it, we could sterilize everyone
who has more than 2 kids, to cut down on the exploding population. And then
let's sterilize everyone who is disabled or has a mental illness, in case they
pass on their traits to children who would be a burden on society. I'm sure we
could think of lots of reasons to sterilize people if we really tried. The only
problem with this approach is a silly little thing called CONSTITUTIONAL
RIGHTS.This is an incredibly sad situation, and government needs to
intervene to protect current and future victims. However, we need to be careful
how we respond to cases like this, to make sure we protect victims while
respecting the rights of all. Otherwise, we may end up making rules that will
come back to bite us in the behind. Some of you who are quick to take away
someone else's rights would have a coronary if anyone ever tried to deny your
rights in the same way.
The FLDS lost their way. And now the children are paying the price. There is a
reason polygamy was abandoned by the Saints in the 19th century, and the
continued FLDS practice of forcibly marrying underaged girls to their close male
relatives is a mockery of the true LDS gospel.If the FLDS has
abstained from underaged marriage, and had they managed to bring in a
sufficiently diverse (ergo, genetically diverse) number of adult females, it
would be much harder to argue that their religious choice does anyone any
harm.But the damage has been done, and the more it is revealed to
the general public, the more clear it becomes that the FLDS have failed to grasp
the spirit of doctrine, in addition to the letter of doctrine, and that this
failure will only continue to bring sorrow and pain to themselves, and their
First of all Huh? These are not LDS children. They are not connected to the LDS
church whatsoever. Second, since I work at the hospital here in ST.
George, I have seen some of these children first hand. It is a terrible
disease. These children have no real life to speak of. They are prone to other
illnesses like pnuemonia and require constant care. I actually pity these
children. There are reasons close relatives should not marry. Get a clue people
This syndrome is also a problem among Hutterite children in Alberta. The
Hutterites are a comunnal people who are followers of Jacob Hutter, a German
annabaptist sect. They also live in colonies where everyone is related. They do
not marry outside their religious group.
Where are all the FLDS defenders, I read on the other posts? Ignoring this one?
Polygamy is wrong! Nothing good has ever come from this practice. Only pain! I
do not believe in anyway that it was ever a revelation from God, perhaps though
the devil. Now we can all see how miserably both woman and children have
suffered the fate of this vile practice, because of a handful of over sexed
males who think they can get away with this insanity in the name of God.
I think it is rather hard to defend something that is so directly linked to the
practice on inbreeding.
The LDS church didnt abandon polygamy, they were forced to stop or they couldnt
become a state. The LDS church still believes in polygamy, they just dont
practice it because its against the laws of the land. After all, polygamy,
according to LDS belief, is the higher law.
Jeffs is a "fugitive" polygamist leader? I was sure he was in custody.
An estimated 80% of all of the marriages in history are said to have been first
cousin or closer. As a geneticist Ill tell you that the probability of a severe
birth defect among non-related individuals is 2-3%. The probability for related
individuals is 3-4%, not a whole lot higher. This particular genetic defect is
persistent among the FLDS because somebody who is a carrier of the recessive
gene has had it expressed to the degree that it is surfacing more and more in
the community. This would be the case in any small community, related or not.
"An estimated 80% of all of the marriages in history are said to have been first
cousin or closer."Whose estimate, yours? How was this "fact"
To Tanner: Have you ever read the Bible? Some of the most revered prophets by
Christians were polygamists. Have you ever heard of Jacob? Moses? Abraham?
They all had multiple wives. To say nothing good has come from polygamy is
using a pretty broad stroke.
Where do you get your facts? You should really stop using Wikipedia as your only
source of information. You are wrong both about the church being forced to stop
polygamy and about the church believing that polygamy is the higher law. Both of
these items are simply not true.
These people ARE ABSOLUTELY connected to the LDS Church!They have
ancestors more directly than most LDS Church members, going back to the early
"Brethren" who were "commanded" to practice polygamy along with Joseph Smith,
Brigham Young, and others.Get your facts straight!These
are DEFINITELY an offshoot of the LDS Church, genetically as well as
Why have the police been ignoring this for so long? Everyone knows these people
have been blatantly breaking the law for years. Are they so powerful that
they're above the law?
I think you meant your title to say, "I'm Not LDS" because you obviously have
never been to an LDS church meeting in your life. I've been a member for 30
years and I've ALWAYS been taught that anyone who practices or practiced
polygamy after the church disbanded it has been or will be excommunicated.
Besides the regular church meetings, our highest leaders have continued to teach
that polygamy is wrong during the semi-annual general conferences.Where's your source?
I grew up in the church and served a mission. I know what I am talking about.
Polygamy is the higher (Celestial) law. Why do you think they practiced it to
begin with? Was it just a mistake? Its not practiced now because its against the
law. Do a little research.
From an LDS perspective, I have often heard and de believe that "special"
children are angels sent here to protect us. They are fast-tracked to the
celestial kingdom, if you will. Don't be surprised if these angels in the FLDS
community may end up bringing salvation to their members.
Ask any woman if she would like to have more than one husband -No way she'll
say. This is bad news and should have been dealt with years ago. Perhaps by
listening to a higher voice they decided to move to Texas and then the legal
authorities down there got the word from God to go in and bust up this bunch
disgusting adult men.My great grandfather had 4 wives and my
husband's grandfather had 2 wives, but we both think in today's world it is
nuts. We both stopped going to church years and years ago but not because of
Polygamy, we just decided long before we know each other that wasn't of interest
I wonder why so many comments are coming on this article two years after the
publication of this article. Was it a slow news day for the Deseret News to
republish, or repost, this article 26 months after the original publication
My first husband died of a genetic recessive disease, we had one child, that
was all we got, but wanted more. With this disease 1 in 40,000 are carriers of
it, I would have had to also be a carrier, so the chances were half for her to
get the disease 1 in 20,000. I do not know what the chances are for this
disease in this small community, of where there are some of the 6,000-10,000
still living. But if there are 20 known cases and both parents had to be
carriers, I think that makes it about a chance of 1 in 200 or 250, pretty low
numbers for such a debilitating disease. The disease my husband had ended his
life at the age of 37. I also dealt with a couple of the families with these
children, one being about 16, that was 7 years ago, all the medical equipment
they received was covered by medicaid. I have not heard if any of the children
in Texas had this disease, I have been wondering if they only took the "elite"
Very simple:Most comments are made on articles people are currently
reading. Someone remembered the article from two years ago, looked it up, posted
a comment about it, and, more people starting reading the article. Soon the
article started appearing in the "Most Popular" articles list and even more
people started reading and commenting on it.The DMN didn't have to
republish or repost the article.Thank you DMN for providing an
archive a past articles!
Ugh!!! What more can the LDS church and it's members say about not practicing
polygamy before people actually believe that they really don't practice it, and
that we are not connected to the FLDS and what used to be the RLDS. There are
many religions that have off-shoots from the original one and they practice
different things as well, they choose to practice what they want and disregard
what they don't want. Get Over It!!
FLDS is an offshoot of the LDS church with the divisive point being the practice
of polygamy. There are obviously some connections today (temples, scriptures,
history, etc...) but the same could be said for many religious groups. Jews and
Christians have a similar history, scriptures, etc...with the big dividing point
being Jesus Christ. Muslims also beleive in Adam, Abraham, etc...from the Old
Testament but Islam of today is quite different from Judaism. If you take a
step back, all major world religions are connected at the roots and each
branched off at some point from the other. However, this happened thousands of
years ago and FLDS and LDS divide has only been within the past 100 years. My
point is that blaming the LDS church for what goes on in FLDS santuaries is
shortsided and is similar to blaming catholics for all protestestants
(lutherans, methodists, baptists, etc...).
Deseret News:I suggest treating verbage regarding people with disabilities
with a little more care. Please keep in mind you are talking about real people.
"Intellectual Disability" is much better than "retarded." Also, instead of
saying "Fumarase child," it is more respectful to refer to the person first.
"Child with Fumarase syndrome" for example. This allows people to better
understand that the child is first and foremost a person, and they happen to
have a disability.
Well, dude, you are the one who is wrong, and has apparently come up with some
very inacturate "sources" for your "research." It is not the "higher law." In
fact, we just recently had that Sunday School lesson... I think you maybe should
go back and read those scriptures and the Gospel Doctrine handbook. It is
clearly stated by the Lord himself that it is "abominable" in His sight and is
only to be used in extremely unusual circumstances, at His request. So how is
it the "higher law" if it's "abominable" in His sight???? You are wrong dude!
To Simple Genetics: The incidence of some genetic birth defects among Jews due
to interbreeding are 20 to 200 times the rate among non-Jews. Some simple math
on this particular Fumarase Deficiency is demonstrative. If only 13 cases of
this disease were known in the world until 1988, that would indicate an
extremely low incidence among the general populace. Even assuming that none of
the cases before 20 years ago was among the polygamists and assuming that
scientists knew of only 10% of the victims of this disorder, that would place
the incidence of the disease at no more than 1 per 37 million people. Let's now
assume there are 100,000 polygamists rather than the much lower estimates
commonly given today and that the 20 cases of Fumarese Deficiency represent 100%
of the cases present among the polygamists, that would mean the incidence is
about 1 in 5,000. That means at the very least that a polygamist's child is
more than 7,000 times as likely to get this one particular genetic disease. It
stands to reason that interbreeding polygamists would have a far higher
incidence of other genetic disorders as well.
Why does everyone in the LDS church point fingers when you do something wrong at
another religions constantly; WELL THE JEWS DID THIS, THE BAPTIST DO THAT! THE
J-DUBS DO IT THIS WAY. THE CATHOLICS HAVE DONE WORSE! The Mormons are constantly
pointing their fingers at other religions who do something comparisons to
themselves that was wrong. You guys need to take a deep look into the nearest
mirror. You and your judgmental, arrogant, backbiting behavior is going to put
you all in hell soon or later. Is this part of your birth defect or what? You
guys all believe in polygamy. So go point the finger for once and for all in
your own faces!
"People living by a Celestial law . . . raising Celestial children"Maybe they should practice this law in the "Celestial Kingdom". Not here on
Earth.Apparently you have two copies of that same recessive gene
Remember Abraham? As I recall the story, when Sarah failed to conceive a child
she gave her maidservant Hagar to Abraham for that purpose. Thus Ishmael
arrived on the scene. Then, surprise, Sarah was able to deliver Isaac. A
squabble ensued and Ishmael was ousted. If you will turn on the evening news,
I'm sure that there will be at least one story confirming that the fight is
still going on 5000 years later. Isn't that proof enough that polygamy just
You all speak gibberish! You polygamist are very sick people. You need mental
well what a suprise.
This has nothing to do with polygamy its got everything to do with pedophilia
and the abuse of women and children. PERIOD>
Give the News credit for reporting on this dirty little secret. I had heard or
read about this problem but did not realize how extensive it was.
I'm troubled by the disrespectful comments toward polygamists I see on this
website. God teaches us to love all people. For those of us who are LDS, we
should have an extra degree of compassion for these good people. After all, they
come from us. They come from the same heritage we do. Like it or not plural
marriage used to be a tenet of the mainstream LDS Church. Thus we should have an
extra degree of empathy for these people who continue the practice. Of course I do not condone illegal abuse under any circumstance, but I'd guess
that the vast majority of polygamists live honorable lives. So let us embrace
these people, show them compassion, and treat them as children of God who for
whatever reason believe differently than we do.
I am always amazed at how much emotion and how little rational thought appears
in many of these commentaries. A few observations:I took an
anthropology class from a professor who was an atheist, and in particular hated
Mormons. Nevertheless, he was honest enough in cultural anthropological
discussions to point out that throughout history over 80% of ALL cultures were
polygamist --as the result of caring for women who survived warfare, as a
product of wealth or status, disproportionate female numbers, etc. What about such people as the Chinese, Japanese, Thai, Polynesians, Africans,
American Indians, pre-Roman Europeans? All were polygamists. Monogamy and
celibacy were pagan Roman practices that were imposed on the world via the Roman
Catholic church.All those railing against polygamy, if they traced
their roots back far enough, would find that their ancestors came from
polygamist cultures.The issue here is not polygamy, but
inter-marriage and in this case, the polygamy simply resulted in the real
problem, a lack of genetic diversity through intermarriage.
I don't care about the Polygamy or the incestas long as they are adultsand it is consensual.what does bother me is they are getting
welfare, if we were to end the welfareto the whole FLDS comunitymaybe they would change there ways.
Well, geez, Matt. We didn't all come from just polygamists. It started with
Adam and Eve. But, according to your reasoning, we should "love" and "embrace"
everyone. So, I will now run up to the first pedophile I see and give him a big
hug. I hope I can find a list of those who are into child pornography so I can
E-mail my love to them. Would it not just be wonderful if a child-sex offender
moved in next door so my children and I could take over some cookies? Thanks
for your enlightenment.
I feel very sorry for these children and those who have to take care of them.
That said, the FLDS broke off from the main body of the church about a century
ago, maybe less. They certainly have nothing whatsoever to do with the modern
LDS church. The problem isn't polygamy. Frankly, what consenting, non-related
adults do in their bedroom is none of my business. However, anyone who has the
time for more than one partner, be they polygamists, swingers, or cheaters,
really needs a hobby because they clearly have too much time on their hands. The
problem is abuse and inbreeding, and this is what led to Warren Jeffs being
placed, rightfully, on the FBI's 10 Most Wanted List.
Please, don't blame your ignorance on God. Come out of your spiritual slumber
educate me. Am I understanding this that they collect WELFARE? Are MY tax
dollars paying for this??!!
If polygamy is against the law, how then are they legally able to draw welfare?
Massgirl, you didn't think they were being supported by fast offerings and
tithing, did you?There's no industry in Hilldale/Colorado City. and
I'm betting none in the Texas community. They don't speak with outsiders, and
none of the women work outside the home. What other way do they have to support
huge families, with disabled children, except that you and I pay for it with tax
dollars. That's what got Tom Green in trouble - public aid fraud. Of course
they collect welfare!
massgirl - Unfortunately you are correct. There are quite a bit of articles
available on the internet, which explain how this works. Since these marriages
are not legal, the women are able to claim to be single mothers to NUMEROUS
children and get quite a lot of welfare. I won't acuse them of getting rich off
it, but many of the articles say they are.I find it interesting and
very enlightening that in this way they show their true colors. They don't
respect the government and claim not to be bound by the same laws as everyone
else, but they are more than willing to 'play the system' when it is to their
advantage.Personally I view this as an extreme level of hypocrisy.
That's just me though.
stop the weldare--i would think this is within the law if you do not chose to
educate your children properly-no access to books or even a library never mind
state testing for school aged children. The welfare cycle will never end
without an education to support yourself.
"Please keep in mind you are talking about real people. 'Intellectual
Disability' is much better than 'retarded.'"However, the official
diagnosis is "Mental Retardation." "Intellectual Disability" is just a
politically-correct term and not a diagnosis. Mental Retardation is the correct
term to use (and it is the term psychologists use when they diagnose someone
with mental retardation).
No child deserves to be born with such disabilities.I understand
that even in the mainstream LDS culture there is so much in-breeding that it has
given rise to trends in birth defects that are higher among LDS than other
populations.All the more reason why missionary work is SO
IMPORTANT!If that is so, then why do Church leaders focus so much on
marrying within the religion? Genetically, it would make more sense to encourage
members to marry non-members so that the problems of in-breeding are no
isolated like that, these things tend to happen.
Rape can have punishment results...Thorns, if you will. Do we not punish our
children if they are wrong....there are consequences...many natural ones. I
believe God will punish those responsible. If not today...JUDGEMENT DAY!
The reason people will not get over it's because the man you call a true PROPHET
stated all of this. If he was a life right now, he would belong to the FLDS
church. They are a true mirror of the church he stated. I think it's about time
you go back and research a little deeper. LDS stop the practice for now until
the next life.
I can't believe we are facing this in this time in the world- Have they not
learned anything? How can thy think marring and forcing a girl of 13 or 14 to
have a baby is good for any one? What kind of messed up people are they? God
help these poor people who think this is good. Satan has truly blinded the eyes
of these people.
Any reason to intermarry, whether it is for royalty, or religion or geographic
has the ability to create physical problems.While we're at it, however,
any reason to be separate from the general populace has the ability to create
physical problems. Royalty: different diet, different problems than the general
populace. (think 600 - 1800s). Religious: possibility of skewed metabolisms
due to fasting. (Ramadan, perhaps?) Geographic: Smog in Big Cities, anyone?
On the argument 'they're children' do you know how many children die or
are crippled in car accidents daily? Way, way more than any little
genetic disorder could do in a century.
Perhaps in the hillbilly clan you come from 80% of all of the marriages are
first cousin or closer, but in the real world your figure is painfully off.
Perhaps you can get a refund on that genetics degree.
Native Americans identify themselves by a clan system (one from each parent).
Natives know that intermarriage between close family members will cause a host
of problems. Mainly birth defects. We are a warrior society and our wars
introduced new genes into each nation i.e. capture of children and females (men
were killed) diversified the native gene pool. Thought I would tell you our
The "highest Law" we live by is continuing revelation and direction from the
Lord. There have been times when the Lord commanded polygamy to be practiced,
most of the time not. When the President of the Church instructs that polygamy
will not be practiced and individuals continue it is not "higher law"; it is
ADULTERY. Polygamy has always been a readily abused and misinterpreted doctrine
and now is no different. Read Jacob.Perhaps family history leaves
some with mixed emotions or clouded judgement on the subject when confronted by
a horror show like Jeffs/FLDS. Rest assured that from a thousand miles away
there is no confusion about the fact that FLDS is and has been monstrously
wrong. The only confusion is over why Utah authorities have allowed the
situation to continue for YEARS.It is a blessing to the pitiful
victims of FLDS that they were finally taken to a state where that confusion
doesn't exist and authorities are willing to take action.
Don't these white people and their religions make you laugh sometimes.Through polygamy, rape and incest the young children become unknown victims.
And to think we use to let the white churches take our native children away to
learn and become like them! Our shame is deep now.Mother earth has a
cruel sense of humor.Don't call me a lamanite, that ship has sailed
already my friends. I am a Cree man.eksay!-Cree-man.
They preach to "Bleed the Beast", in other words, to take as much from society
as possible.Those seriously ill children have no legal father, their
moms dont work... who the heck do you think pays for their high medical
bills?Yeah you, look in the mirror! You support this atrocity!
Fumarase deficiency is extremely rare. Until a few years ago scientists knew of
only thirteen cases worldwide. However, recently twenty additional cases have
been documented in the border towns of Colorado City, Arizona, and Hildale,
Utah. These two towns constitute a closed and controlled community, and were
settled in the 1930s by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day
Saints, which is a breakaway sect COMPLETELY unaffiliated with The Church of
Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. As such, many of the surrounding communities
refer to this disease as "Polygamist's Down's"The fumarase
deficiency gene has become very common in this community, due to the practice of
INBREEDING. It is believed that either Joseph Smith Jessop, one of the founders
of the communities, or his wife carried the gene and passed it on to their
descendants.The populations of Colorado City and Hildale are
examples of the founder effect.SO SAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just want to say I agree with Texas responding to this situation as well as the
comment about abuse being claimed as a religion, therefore being 'okay'. Abuse
is wrong...using children, women with no means of other support, into a type of
'sex business' is abominable. If these people are playing like they are married
and yet claiming the women are single & using children to collect welfare...that
is fraud. Polygomy is not allowed in our country...that is illegal. We see
programs about other countries in the plight of trafficing young males & females
in a sex trade, as well as children and are asked to support programs to help,
yet here in our own country there is a mess similar to this going on. The
legalities of this whole situation needs to be addressed and acted upon. If you
could chose a life for your child, would you chose a physical or mental
handicap? Think not. The children with these handicaps deserve better and it
is a shame that prenataly they are not being protected by loving parents...that
is called neglect. So much prenatal education available. These people know
they are breaking the laws...act.
it kind of makes me sad that these FLDS members don't realize what they're doing
is wrong. that may be a personal opinion, but i think it's just about everyone's
personal opinion. I sure wouldn't want to put my children through the pain of
having the mental issues many of these children are getting. In a way, its a
form of abuse. These problems could be prevented if these people would just
marry outside of their family.
"Bleed the Beast," is what the polygamist say when they steal from federal,
state or local taxpayers. They have little choice but to marry within the cult,
because they don't trust outsiders, especially men. They fully intend to breed
their own future believers. It doesn't look like from this article that this
tactic is going to work over the long run.The problem could affect
the future for our descendants. As this cult fails and members spread themselves
through the general population, they will take this gene that they have
carefully bred through the past century and pass it on to the innocent. It
seems a lot like AIDS where the guilty were protected because they wanted to
continue their practices at all cost. Because of their own perversion, they care
nothing about the rest of the population.
The government needs to move in on these FLDS and their immoral polygamy
practices. Slavery was abolished long ago. These people make me darn right sick!
This is America, and this stuff has been going on for far too many decades. It's
time to clean up America, and put some lusty fellows into the slammer.
is the least of the defects the males in FLDS harbor
I find it laughable that anyone would say that these communities are "taking
good care" of these handicapped children. I know for a fact that the majority
of these children are left in rooms and forgotten, or given "cupboard" cures
which they feel will heal the child: making bigger problems than before. Child
abuse runs rampant in the FLDS community and will continue to do so because
there is no clear cut way to expose it completely. I expect it is easier to be
neglectful and abusive to a mentally challenged child who is incapable of crying
out for help. Why does everyone try to pin rainbows and roses on a situation
that continues to foster damaged people?
To Ill 12:14Ask any woman if she would kike multiple husbands...While I do not go around asking that question, my observations over a period
of years in several locations make me believe the answer must be YES by some.I have observed married women "sleeping with" or maybe it is called
"swinging", "haveing a night out" or one of a numer of other terms used to
indiciate having sex with multiple guys, some of them legally their husbands,
some not. Pologamy (which I do not support any more than the others) at least on
the surface calles it what it is, sex with multiple partners. Would any woman
admit wanting more than one husband- Yes, I think they have demonstrated that
answer contrary to your opinion.Maybe I will have to start asking an
appropriate question to all the ladies I meet in the airport.
This is a topic people are very passionate about. I am not a member of the LDS
Church but am close with many who are. Mainstream LDS members denounce Polygomy.
No question. What the FLDS community essentionally does is allow a man to
legally marry one woman AND have several mistresses. This is morally repugnant,
but not illegal. The only issue that can be prosecuted is child abuse. The
investigation is being hampered by members lying about relationships and ages.
This opens the door to prosecute obstruction. Everything else is beyond
legal reach. Even the circumstances that have led to this terrible birth defect.
I have a child with Autism so I am not being ignorant or hurtful to those
effected. I can only pray that God will guide law enforcement to find any and
all forms of child abuse AND have the wisdom to help these children heal. This
is a phenomenal task. I hope the nation can focus it's energy on what can be
done here, which is guarantee the safty of the children. Everything else is just
noise at this point.
Does anyone know if the children and women that are getting DNA testing, have
any possibility of getting tested also for fumarase deficiency disease..the gene
pool disease? All that is required is a simple urine sample test BUT the testers
must know what they are looking for. If not who may we contact?????
The sins of the father are visited upon the sons. So sad.God bless
I also don't care what consenting adults do, but they should be ashamed to call
this christianity. They should all be arrested for sexual abuse of a child.
Make their compound a prison. The men are clearly pediphiles. The mothers are
just as guilty and the men. Has anybody seen any teenage males in all this?
Where are they???
I am not associated with either church. However, I have worked with homeless
youth for many years and have found that the numbers of LDS kids who are thrown
out of their homes and into the streets because they took part in the usual
rebellious activities that teenagers partake in is EXTREME!!! I don't care who
you are, if your religion dictates that you should only love your children when
they obey, then you should not be having children. You should definitely not be
having LOTS of children as both FLDS and LDS families do. Both religions are
disgusting to me because of the neglect and abuse their children suffer. I knew
one girl from an LDS family whose parents tied her to her bed for over a week to
keep her from seeing her boyfriend, and many others who were cast off for being
gay. The FLDS may be more extreme, but both religions are sick in that they
don't allow parents to LOVE their children for who they are.
Obviously you have a pretty narrow field of vision. People are people and raise
their children how they feel appropriate no matter what religion they come from.
There are plenty of parents who are abussive to their children whom are NOT of
the LDS or FLDS faith. I happen to know for a FACT that members of the LDS faith
are taught from birth to be loving of everyone, especially their own children.
As for having many children, I grew up in a family with 5 children and would not
want it any other way. In my oppinion, large families are more fun, and I plan
on having 5 children at least. It it not a commandment in the LDS church to have
many children, they simply preffer it that way. People have agency in all
things. We are made aware of the consiquences and are free to choose for
ourselves to make that choice anyway, and should not be suprised or react
bitterly when that consiquence follows. Polygamy is illegal, bottom line. And
yet these people still practice it in this country. They are seperate from the
LDS faith and should not be associated with them at all.
I find it somewhat unsettling that your plan to have at least 5 children of your
own is based on your memory of a fun childhood in a big family. having kids is a
huge responsibility, and your first priority should be wether you have enough
resources (financial, time, patience etc) to raise a well-adjusted child. One
child requires alot of sacrifice, i dont think you should think of something so
important in terms of the amount of fun you perceive it to be, that kind of
mindset indicates egocentrism, which you cannot afford as a parent. I do not support/agree with the teachings of LDS or FLDS at all but i think we
could all benefit from taking a step back and bearing in mind that group
influence/processes sometimes operate at a higher level than individual
thinking. there is lots of fundamental attribution error going on here and it
would be myopic to condemn any member of the religion, after all they probably
do not know any better. please have a look at the zimbardo study or asch study
on conformity to have a better understanding of situational influences.
Polygamy is not the cause of any disease. Inbreeding is the cause of many
genetic diseases. You get a group of people paranoid about everyone around them
and what you get inbreeding. Same thing happened ( and still happening)to some
germans that immigrated to south america and lived there in isolated
The reason LDS people get blamed for FLDS behavior is that LDS politicians - and
the LDS community as a whole - have done NOTHING to put a stop to this. Utah
and Arizona's law enforcement structure protects interstate trafficking of women
and girls for forced marriage, rape, and forced breeding. Utah &
Arizona do nothing to prosecute or at least discipline the FLDS nurses who see
the child abuse and fail to report it. Utah & Arizona have done nothing to
increase the MISDEMEANOR penalty for abandoning male children as young as 12 -
the "lost boys." Utah & Arizona have done nothing to investigate or prosecute
the high rate of infant and child deaths, some without death certificates and in
unmarked graves, which may be a result of genetic disease or of neglect of
disabled children or unwanted boys. The welfare fraud gets everyone
excited. Where's the excitement about the trafficking, rape, abandonment, and
neglect of the children? How dare any law enforcement official claim they don't
have the resources to look into this? The LDS community - all voters - should
stop being passive and embarrassed and start being enraged and active. Clean
I do want everyone to know that this is not just a disease that is from
imbreeding like a lot of these articles make it sound. My child has fumarase
deficiency and my husband and I are no where related. I carry one mutated gene
and he carries a completely different one. Had we known this ahead of time, we
probably would not of had children. However, these children in these
communities did not do anything to deserve what they are going through and do
deserve adequate health care. We have private insurance for my daughter, but I
don't think taking away support for these other children will solve the problem.
Religion has nothing to do with this. This is a matter between right and wrong.
A child of 15 yr old should not be forced to have sex with a man of any age. The
world will be harsh with realities soon enough. This brings to mind the puppy
mills that just keep breeding until birth defects arise. The reason it is
against the law is because it is sick. All you defenders think about it... would
you allow this if it were your little girl???
There have been many women and men run away from/come out of the LDS or FLDS
Church. The one in Utah, and the community in Kansas are polygamists and they
do abuse thier children. One man often has 4 or 10 wives and 8-20 children.
Since they are a small community they are all related now and so they are having
birth defects. They have to have a different cemetery just to bury the children
because they die so often from the birth defects. Google Flora Jessup, and look
at the synopsis of the episodes for Secret Lives of Women (on WE tv). Look for
I had the thought that now that Warren Jeffs has 'apparently' decreed
(from prison) that only 15 men are approved to father any children at YFZ that
this is only going to increase the incidence of Fumarase Deficiency. The same
article also said that there must now be 2 male 'witnesses' to any
sexual act. This isn't religion, it's perversion and these misguided
people have bought into it. I suspect that many would like to leave but
aren't able to. No, I'm NOT a Mormon.