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A whole new ballgame: Utah summer leagues have evolved

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awsomeron | 4:56 a.m. July 7, 2009

Get a Job, Go to work. Move on with your life.

Several Things | 8:28 a.m. July 7, 2009

Don't listen to awsomeron! You will be working your ENTIRE LIFE!! If you have the chance to play ball, even just one last summer, DO IT!!

2ndly, I totally understand that the best players and coaches and programs want to compete against the best and keep getting better. But I hope there is always a place for those ball players that aren't the best, but still love the game and to compete, to play and get better themselves. Baseball is a game.

Kickbacks | 8:31 a.m. July 7, 2009

My problem with the new leagues is money. It's costly for the kids, and I think some coaches joined these new leagues for the kickbacks from the organizers.

Comments continue below

Motives | 8:39 a.m. July 7, 2009

I question the motives of these coaches. Is it really about the kids? Or about having power in the baseball circles and having the say on who is good or not? Take that Gates All-Star game for example. Look at how many kids connected to Shepherd made that team.

Not good baseball | 8:41 a.m. July 7, 2009

All the pundits for the Baseball Academy and the other various "super leagues" say that they are about improving baseball. They aren't succeeding. Youth baseball in the Salt Lake area has taken a big hit. These supposed elite leagues are not doing anything for anyone but those who run them. It is all about the money, and they make a lot of it. If the Baseball Academy is so good and the players so good, why then didn't any Salt Lake area teams win the high school state championships this year?

It is all about power. Sato wants power and control and the Legion folks wouldn't give it to him. Frankly, his Bingham teams haven't been that good. I wouldn't put Bingham's high school program in the "elite".

George Sluga lost his job at Bingham partially because he ran and supervised workouts in the off season with his basketball teams in violation of the USHAA rules. It seems that these high school baseball coaches are doing the same thing, even though these games are not sanctioned by the USHAA. They have found a loophole.

Save baseball in Salt Lake. Lose the Baseball Academy.

Irony | 9:08 a.m. July 7, 2009

Would the UHSAA let Football teams start their own "AAU" league for football in the spring? No way! And that might actually be a good thing for kids. It is amazing what baseball gets away with. This is a major loop hole, designed to make money for baseball coaches, and create unfair advantages for the so called baseball elite.

an Opinion | 9:21 a.m. July 7, 2009

I am not sure why boys can't play on both teams. The Legion teams and the Elite teams. When you look back on it parents, look at the money you are throwing towards what? A college education? Have you looked at what a college education will cost you and if you think there is a bunch of money given to baseball players in college please go look again. These are things that all these coaches don't explain to you. Boys you will look back and if you can win a team championship and play in the regionals of the American Legion, you will face the likes of Bishop Gorman and others. Some how they make it work, why can't we make it work. For one the Legion program is much better organized and it is all done by volunteers, no paid coaches, just coaches that want to give something back to their communities and thier teams.

Come On | 9:57 a.m. July 7, 2009

First of all you have no idea what you are talking about.. The Baseball Academy does not pay coaches to coach their teams, they give them a break on the cost of the team fees for the coaches and in return the coaches usually pass that back to their teams. If it is to buy equipment or whatever and it usually is only about $600 per coach (oh wow that is really paying a coach) 600 hundred little dollars for all the time they put into their team. Why do all you people have to bad mouth other coaches and the academy when they are trying to do good for Utah and baseball. I get so sick of reading these negative comments when you should be finding the positive in what the Baseball Academy and Coaches do for your kids. Come on people grow up how hard is it to find the positive in what people do instead always the negative.
I am a mom that totally supports my coaches and the Baseball Academy for all their hard work and you should too.

Baseball | 9:58 a.m. July 7, 2009

Unfortunatly baseball in Utah is becoming a joke.If you are not tied into the academy or The Gates foundation you get left behind.We need to remember the academy is a business and it is there to support and put food on someones table.The Gates foundation does some great things,but it seems like not a whole lot of research has gone into picking some of their local talent.Over exagerated stats and parents willing to stroke someones ego seem to go a long way.What do some of these elite kids do when their playing days are over and they have to pay their own way in the real world?I dont think we are doing these kids any favors by giving them a free ride and overblown egos.Too bad the good old days of Automotive and Legion baseball are gone for good.

Its too bad | 10:09 a.m. July 7, 2009

The baseball academy has ruined summer baseball. Half the time umpires don't show and then it's usually only 1. The leagues are poor at best. Legion ball and automotive were much better organized and the games were much better. Academy leagues are over priced for the value you received and the collegiate league is the biggest joke of all.

RE: Opinion | 10:13 a.m. July 7, 2009

they can't play both because the elite teams play every single day.

Anonymous | 10:51 a.m. July 7, 2009

Summer baseball is not breaking any UHSAA rules. Baseball has a 12 week moritorium just like everyother sport including football. The moritorium begins when the summer season ends. Summer baseball is no different than the passing leagues and spring drills that football participates in. Believe me the high school coaches that commit to their program and coach both summer ball and high school ball are not in it for the money. All that teams needed to do that were in the legion and split off was tell the players that once they graduated they were no longer apart of the the team and that they had their time. There are a lot of teams up north that are apart of the american legion that do this exact thing. Other teams have formed (Smithfield Aztecs is one of them) with graduated seniors that still meet the age criteria for American Legion Baseball.

LEGION IS THE | 12:18 p.m. July 7, 2009

WAY TO GO FORGET SUPPORTING THE ACADEMY, SATO SAYS THE GRADUATED PLAYERS AND HIS INCOMING SENIORS OR JUNIORS ARE THE ONES SITTING THEN USE TWO TEAMS WHILE ONE TEAM PLAYS OUT THERE LAST HURRAH THE OTHER TEAM IS WORKING ON THE NEXT SEASON FOR THERE RESPECTIVE VARSITY.

Northern Utah | 12:31 p.m. July 7, 2009

The Blacksmith Fork Trappers is actually Mountain Crest. The school district made them change their name a colors for the summer. They are in American Legion but have no graduated seniors play with them. They use American Legion for a chance to develope their players fore the upcoming high school season. Blacksmith Smith Fork (MC) has 4 teams playing in 3 different American Legion Divisions. Northern Utah still plays American Legion but is organized by the high school coaches in the area. It is nice to have a state tournament at the end of the year and a chance to go to the regionals.

Opportunity | 12:54 p.m. July 7, 2009

I just hate how all of these type of leagues have limited the kids who have the opportunity to play. Face it, if you're a teen who has a summer job or comes from a family that is not rich, you don't have a place in baseball because these leagues and coaches want money and want all of your time. It's sad that the days of just showing up for high school tryouts are over. Now days you have to devote your life to the sport and the coach. Very sad, especially when considering that 99 percent of these kids never play past high school, yet can't get those years back when it's all done. Only a teen once.

Anonymous | 1:00 p.m. July 7, 2009

Wow, your kid who is actually a sub-par player gets the perks because daddy has the coin to get him there. Sure, there is talent wherever you go and whatever league you play in, Get rid of the politics? yeah right! As a former college baseball player I must say American Legion play is a much better competitive edge. Money at times can't by talent but it sure can make a team look good. Bring back Legion and get rid of bonnet ball.

Utah Baseball Fan | 1:05 p.m. July 7, 2009

There is not a right or wrong way to go here. Every high school has it's own philosophy and hopefully tries to do what's best for their programs and players. Don't blame the Academy for "ruining" baseball in Utah. Some coaches actually approached them and asked them to form this new league - for insurance and association purposes. Yes, they are a business but also offer opportunities for kids who want to do more. Parents are not forced to participate - don't do it if you don't want to. As a parent whose son plays Legion and also participates with the Academy, I think you can do as much or as little as you'd like to. Anyone who watched the high school state baseball tournament watched some fun games and some great players. Going out of state and playing in tournaments, Utah players can hold their own - we have a lot of talent here. Maybe look for the positives instead of searching for the negative?

Anonymous | 1:19 p.m. July 7, 2009

As mentioned above, players and coaches are frustrated with the Utah Baseball Academy because there are not enough umpires to cover all of the games. Games that are suppose to have two umpires only have one and the games with one umpire are lucky if a umpire shows up at all.

baseball fan | 1:49 p.m. July 7, 2009

The Baseball Acedamy is all about the $. The owners of the academy depend on the parents of hopeful ball players to exist. No surprise to hear that the academy league has poor leadership and not very organized. Heck, ever talk to Keyes he looks right thru with that distant stare, probably too distracted on how to get the $ out of your wallet. I wonder is he really that much of better baseball mind then others or is he a really good $alesman. I know he is connected and all that but come on. Think about it..........

The UBA and other summer | 2:49 p.m. July 7, 2009

leagues (such as the one started in Utah County) are about the high school coaches, not the players. The one in Utah County is much cheaper than the UBA, that must be said.

However, the quality of ball is horrible and not serious. I seen one team hit 16 players, "open" substitution rules etc. that are there to supposedly develop players. Except both team generally put out players that aren't motivated because they take the league as seriously as it takes itself.

It is ironic that the three, if there are that many, players Utah has produced that are playing in "the show" graduated in the 1990's, way before the UBA and all these youth super leagues. Where are the pro and college players that these leagues are supposedly producing? At least with American Legion in its heyday and the former Automotive League, the quality of play was much better, the coaches and players cared because the media covered the games, it was real baseball with real baseball rules, etc. Now it's about the high school coaches developing their own talent except the real irony is that the quality of play and players just gets worse.

American Legion and Automotive | 3:02 p.m. July 7, 2009

was the way to go.

Their games actually looked like real baseball games with)

--real substitution rules
--two umpires umpiring every game
no time limit
--players that hustled and cared about the results
--results reported by the coaches and tracked by the media
--a state tournament that brought together the best teams from all over the state
--A state and national organization that had rules which they followed and were uniform everywhere you went.

I am a high school coach that has coached in the UBA, coached American Legion and now coaches in the Utah County League (Utah's Perfect Game). The latter is much cheaper than the UBA and for the most part two umpires have showed up each game unlike the the UBA which was a crapshoot but the best ball and the best player development came from American Legion and Automotive.

Former coach | 3:38 p.m. July 7, 2009

Legion was the best. All of these new leagues have created a watered down state. The baseball I've been watching lately is so bad.

The Academy pays coaches $600?

That is a joke. Either volunteer your time or have a real volunteer coach the boys.

Change? | 3:43 p.m. July 7, 2009

Is there any way we can change the mentality of summer ball? The 90's and American Legion and Automotive made a stronger, more competitive league and I believe was a better solution for players. True about the "Super League" mentality - just because you pay more money, it doesn't mean better baseball. The uniforms may be more fancy, travel more extensive, but the leagues are watered down. Anyone can start a super league team and parents (and coaches) get a false sense of entitlement and superiority. Once they get to high school kids who didn't play super league may actually make the team and succeed? Amazing and shocking to those who played super league all the way through. What needs to happen for change to happen and is it realistic? Probably high school coaches would have to commit to it and put in the time. Can parents have input and/or make a difference? Curious...

I vote for American Legion | 4:13 p.m. July 7, 2009

Take last years American Legion winners. Bishop Gorman (Southern Nevada Titans) has a summer team competing in the American Legion League. They also compete in summer showcase tournaments to "showcase" their players. In July they compete for the Nevada State title. They then go to the Western Regionals and win which sends them to the World Series in Michigan. They then compete and win the world series title for last year. The American Legion League provides a competetive path for teams to play and advance. This is a much diferent mindset for the boys than a series of weekend tournaments with no goal in site. After July is over, then games are over, and what can you show for it. Utah has had a few very good state Legion champs that played in the Western Regionals but did not make it past there. I think this is a much better competetive way to spend the summer than a series of useless showcase events. I know there are recruiters at these events, but if a kid is good, they will find you anyways. I vote for a league with a purpose that sends a state winner to a meaningful title.

Baseball is Business | 4:50 p.m. July 7, 2009

The reason the academy exists it to make money. There are great players in the academy but it comes at a price. The reason there is only 1 umpire at the games is because they only pay them once a month and then often short them game fees even though the teams have paid for two umpires. Legion always has two umpires at every game because they pay on the field. The new 16 team utah county league also pays on th field and follows high school rules. Their are kickbacks to the coaches and they are told that their kids won't make certain teams if they do not participate in the league. But they do play in great tournaments and are seen by many scouts and therefore probably get more scholarships. I think though that overall the best baseball and best organized is legion or the upper babe ruth league. If everyone would stay legion just think what a great end of the year tournament that would be.

Like the way it is now | 5:19 p.m. July 7, 2009

Utah Baseball is great now. The Baseball Academy has done a great job - much better than the old American Legion way. As it stands now, the high school coaching staff is in complete control all year long which is great. Usually the varsity coach works with the younger kids in the summer and JV coach works with the older kids. The summer allows for younger kids to play up and get experience as well as get a good look from the varsity coach. Kids get to play together from 9th grade on which forms a great bond over the next 4 years. The old American Legion way (which I played in) you had some group of dad's that coached the teams and you really didn't develop fundamentals during the summer like you can now. Legion was fun but things are much better now.

Anonymous | 10:22 p.m. July 7, 2009

The reason coaches stay with UBA is because there players can play in prospect games and fall showcases. If your team plays legion then your players can't play in the showcases with UBA. I think its important to give my players the opporunity to play in the showcases. I do not like the fact that some of the coaches coach these summer and fall teams and use them as a recuiting tool. I know they get paid too but its used as a recuiting tool. Plan and simple. I wish the utah athlethic commission do something about it.

former player now a coach | 10:44 p.m. July 7, 2009

I played automotive and american legion growing up and I loved every minute of it. It was very organized and the tournament was awesome, in my opinion was better then the state tourney during the baseball year. I know a lot has happened with legion. I was an assistant that coached in the UBA and I did not like it one bit. We always had just one umpire and the coaches were not in uniform. Now that I am a head coach I put my team in American Legion because I think it is ran better and I always have two umpires. I have no graduated seniors. Legion is for my team for next year, so what if other teams have graduated seniors on it. This is for my team to get better and play. I just wish it was like the good old days, like it was in the 90's. As long as I am a coach we will play american legion. I also think that every head coach should coach there summer teams, not these dads who can't even coach in rec ball.

The Utah County League | 12:08 a.m. July 8, 2009

does pay for the umpires at the field site but suffers from the same mentality as the UBA in regards to the seriousness of their games such as batting more than nine players (I've seen a team hit 15 or 16 players) and very liberal substitution rules on defense. American Legion is much, much closer to real baseball in regards to the rules. The Utah County League is better than the UBA as it is cheaper and two umpires show up (every game except one I've seen) but let's face it, the American Legion of the 1990's blows this league and the UBA away for quality of play and meaningful competitive experiences. What the UBA and Utah County League are about is the high school coaches get to kick their graduated seniors to the curb, perhaps get some kickbacks though as a coach that has done both these leagues, never really saw that, and use supposedly very liberal sub and batting order rules that supposedly used to develop players, though it is likely it doesn't really work because the quality of play is so poor and the motivation of the players is lacking.

Anonymous | 12:57 a.m. July 8, 2009

Does anyone know if there is a league for people in their 20's that never played in high school, or college, that just want to play baseball (not softball) recreationally?

face it | 8:14 a.m. July 8, 2009

When you can't control it you start something else where you will benefit. I believe there are very good coaches in summer ball and I believe High School coaches could easily support and chose these coaches that would develope players. All coaches need to get away from the game just for relaxing and motivation. It can't be 24-7 for the coaches or the boys. It is still a game that maybe many coaches still feel they should be playing.

Northern Utah | 10:26 a.m. July 8, 2009

High school coaches are not kicking the graduated seniors to the curb. This seniors know when they graduate it is time to move on. There is plenty of baseball leagues and teams that they can join up with if they still want to play after they graduate. You don't see graduated seniors traveling around with the football prgrams to passing leagues all summer or graduated seniors playing basketball with their high school basketball teams all summer so why do people think this should happen in baseball? Anybody can start up an American Legion team so if it is important for these graduated seniors to keep playing baseball then start up a team.

Re: Northern Utah | 12:21 p.m. July 8, 2009

Let's be real about something. The UBA was created to make people money. It was also created so that high school coaches could have more control. With that control, graduated seniors who once played American Legion now must scramble to find their own competitive experiences. I'm not sure there is one Legion program in Utah County. I think there are only around 13 or so statewide.

Though playing time for juniors to be seniors might have been lessened, the quality of their experience is much greater. I can't see how anyone in their right mind can argue this. Even if the best or better programs do the UBA thing, the quality of play and seriousness of it is lacking. If you compared summer baseball compared to summer or club volleyball in regards to quality of play, overall commitment of the players (and parents) you would be shocked. It is no wonder to me why no graduate of this decade from Utah has made the show while volleyball athletes in Utah are excelling at the highest levels even making Olympic teams. Plus American Legion programs represented in many cases their communities which I think is great.

The bottom line | 8:29 p.m. July 8, 2009

the bottom line for utah baseball is that it is about money. If you have it you can play even if you are average. If you don't have it your baseball is limited. Coaches want all of your time. If you need to work summers then forget summer ball. Thats just the way it is. Parents save your money and put it towards your sons education.

re: botton line | 9:29 p.m. July 8, 2009

I agree Parents put the money you put into these programs for something that will benefit them in their lives not just for now and the big let down they will get after they graduate, lets face it unless your son is special and I am yet to see any special ball players out there they are not going to go anywhere but to work after the HS years and thats because you spent their college money on putting food on somebody elses table at 50/ half hour for a lesson you could get off of a video for 10 bucks and actually watch it over and over again.

Re: Like the way it is now | 9:15 a.m. July 9, 2009

To - Like the way it is now | 5:19 p.m. July 7, 2009
I have a son that plays in the Bingham program - one of the founding programs in the UBA. Our high school coaching staff has nothing to do with the summer program except to water the field in the morning. Our "Varsity" team is coached by a dad and his son who is a former player. The "Varsity Prep" team is coached by 2 dads - one is a former player for the high school and the other is a there so his son will get playing time. The baseball is a joke. Sad part is - the players get NO instruction and part of the very expensive fee to play goes to the hs coach who is only there long enough to water the field and then travels with the UBA travel teams (Junior Olympic, etc). Does anyone else smell something fishy?

uninformed | 10:50 a.m. July 9, 2009

Coaches do get paid from the baseball academy. 70.00 per game. I was told this personally by one of the coaches. As for coach Sato's arguement. It doesn't wash. My son played 4 years of summer ball for Bingham (through the Baseball academy) and I saw coach Sato maybe at two or three games all summer. Ex players and dads coached the teams. There were never any pratices (whih is were players get better) and he games were a joke! The academy is a JOKE and there leagues are a mess. They should be ashamed of themselves for what summer ball has become in this state!

Coach | 12:28 p.m. July 9, 2009

After reading the comments the last few days I think I will comment. I know Copper Hills did the UBA league for several years and stopped in 2006 because of rising cost, poor organization, a no umps(my own personal experience). There summer program went a different direcetion, they decided to do tournaments over the summer instead of a league. I didnt like the decesion since they dont play regularly or practice. This year the 16 and under team went to the Varsity Prep league that I believe Coach Fratto organized from Cyprus. That has been the best league we have participated in. Two umps every game, we play good teams but do have average ones also. But we play 3 to 4 games a week and practice in between. It enables the coaches to teach during the game and work on things in between games with practice. I do believe the UAB is about money and not enhancing the states talent. I personally never played legion but my brother is right now and that has proven a lot better option for teams that will be upcoming seniors then the UAB.

Whatever.... | 2:45 p.m. July 9, 2009

to the "parents" of the kids at re:like the way it is know and "uninformed"...

Maybe if you would man up and talk to Coach Sato, things might be changed. Until then, spreading lies and grumblings throughout the program will do nothing except undermine what we are trying to do at Bingham. Remember last year? Not so much fun because of a few disgruntled parents of players. What you are doing by hiding behind the ANONYMOUS posts here does nothing except prove that you are a coward and gutless, and unwilling to do anything except cause problems in the program. It is too bad that parents like you have a part in ruining programs and coaches reputation because of gossip you may hear during church or because you are mad that your son does not play as much as you think. While I am not advocating you leaving the program, if you do not like the summer ball situation then why don't you bring that up with the coaches? The funny part of this is that your kid is probably having a great time and is embarrassed that you are causing problems.....

UBA summer $ | 2:49 p.m. July 9, 2009

The coaches who take care of the summer baseball DO NOT get paid..they are volunteers who try to do what is best for the kids...Many of the coaches do not cover the summer games because they are also teachers and work to MAKE MONEY, regardless if that means they can't be at every game.

"Coaches do get paid from the baseball academy. 70.00 per game. I was told this personally by one of the coaches"

Who told you this? The person that I am guessing told you this has nothing to do with summer baseball, unless he has a stake in it...

fun vs skill development | 2:55 p.m. July 9, 2009

American Legion is fun but the coaches don't teach squat as far as fundamentals simply because they are usually a bunch of dad's of some of the players and don't have the expertise. At least with the UBA leagues you get your high school coaches involved. My son was a pitcher and really developed in to his eventual All-State form because of the experience and tutoring he got during the summer from his pitching coach. He also got to play with his age group plus play-up which was great experience. American Legion is fun and very organized (especially the tournaments) but if you want your son to develop and improve Legion doesn't cut it.

Never Satisfied | 3:00 p.m. July 9, 2009

Regardless of how things are, there is never going to be a time where people are totally satisfied with how summer baseball is run. There will always be dissenters within the ranks, usually parents who don't like the fees or that their son doesn't play. As a coach, it has been my experience that you just have to keep plugging along and trying to do what's best for the kids. If they do not want to play summer baseball, they do not have to. As for UBA summer baseball, if the umpires do not show up, blame them not the program. It is up to them to show up to games that they are assigned to.

UBA vs MGF | 4:06 p.m. July 9, 2009

Hey, did anyone see the game between UBA Highlanders team that was stacked with Duke, Giron, Webster, Campbell, Medina, Huber, etc get worked by the Utah Bucks 19 to O. The Utah Bucks are the junior team to the Utah Marshalls and they worked the supposed studs from the UBA. If you are going to look at any advanced program for your son - DO NOT CHOSE THE UBA. Oh, did I mentioned that it cost them a lot of money to get their fannies handed to them. Nice team Keyes and Norris - is that the best you can do? Or did you split the talent - like in JO's to get more teams and make more money. UBA is a joke.

Player | 6:40 p.m. July 9, 2009

American Legion has some great talent, dont take anything away from them because its the "northern" schools who play it. Mountain Crest just won the state championship for heavens sakes. American Legion is VERY good

Where's my $70 | 9:29 p.m. July 9, 2009

per game? I must have coached several hundred games and didn't get paid a red cent by the UBA. It's not the greatest league in the world but I think this is a big myth or I need to meet this coach and find out what happened to my cash.

On American Legion, the proponents for it are not talking about how it exists right now but how it did until this decade. It was a great league as was Automotive. Summer baseball has fractionalized and it has hurt the quality of baseball in the state. Not only did American Legion lose its luster and the Automotive league disband, the quality of summer ball lessened greatly. The graduating seniors were hurt the most. Only those who could afford it could land on these college prep teams and the American Legion teams evaporated like a puddle on a hot summer day. Legion teams represented schools and communities and put out a quality product, in fact superior to high school baseball. Whether its' the UBA, the Varsity Prep League, the Utah's Perfect Game (the new league with Utah County teams and Hillcrest/Wasatch), summer baseball has gone downhill.

Summer ball | 10:25 p.m. July 9, 2009

what is a kid who wants to try and walk on to a 2 yr college to do ? Many can't afford the fees (better spent towards tution) for the UBA collegiate league and now don't have the option of legion. Their chances of walking on are zero without the benefit of summer ball. The uba has hurt kids from lower income families and that is a fact.

sorry | 9:35 a.m. July 10, 2009

Sorry but if your kid does not know where he will be playing next year he most likely will not be playing at all.You dont need to go through the UBA to find a kid a place to play.You as a parent and your kid should have been contacting coaches long ago.There are a couple thousand college programs out there that all need rosters filled.If your kid is willing to go out of state and play at a small program,and has talent(that is the part most parents dont understand)He should be able to find a place to play.

re:UBA vs.MGF | 10:41 a.m. July 10, 2009

And did anyone see the game between the bucks and the U17 team from T-ville..1-0 through 5 innings. T-ville plays with 13 boys that will all be in high school...granted they did not have the depth in pitching that the bucks had but out hit them...so you can still be together and play good competition..plus play in Legion...it all works if you want it to...and there are baseball players out there that are equal or better in other programs than the Marshalls, Bucks and UBA..

re re:UBA vs. MGF | 11:47 a.m. July 10, 2009

I totally agree.. There are so many great players who play in all the leagues. Unfortunately UBA and the marshalls are the only ones who are looked at as having those great players.

Re: sorry | 1:24 p.m. July 10, 2009

I agree for the most part except if a kid can afford to go out of state to college he probably could have afforded the UBA. Any kid with an ounce of talent played high school ball and at least several college coaches know who they are and if they can can be a part of their program. I pity the kid with talent who couldn't afford the UBA during high school or the collegiate program after with no legion options. They will never play and might as well join a softball rec league.

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