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Readers' forum: Obama no Marxist
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Corporate conmen | 1:53 p.m. June 29, 2009
Most government welfare goes to private corporations.
@ "1:15 p.m." poster | 2:18 p.m. June 29, 2009
Tax the poor to benefit wealthy | 1:15 p.m.
My point wasn't nearly as complex as you made it out to be. It's simple...
1. Taxes are necessary and needed.
2. It doesn't matter if I like the way they are used or not. That's NOT the criteria for them being considered "Redistribution of wealth" or not. When the government takes income from one person to give it to another... THAT'S redistribution of wealth (what Obama proudly proclaimed was going to be his policy if elected).
Bottom line... I'm not an anti-tax kinda guy. Just an anti-redistribution of wealth kinda guy.
I don't mind funding the government and it's critical programs. But I am against the Obama proposal to (as he put it on the campaign trail), "Take the income from some people and spread it around". That's NOT government's job.
My point wasn't nearly as complex as you made it out to be. It's simple...
1. Taxes are necessary and needed.
2. It doesn't matter if I like the way they are used or not. That's NOT the criteria for them being considered "Redistribution of wealth" or not. When the government takes income from one person to give it to another... THAT'S redistribution of wealth (what Obama proudly proclaimed was going to be his policy if elected).
Bottom line... I'm not an anti-tax kinda guy. Just an anti-redistribution of wealth kinda guy.
I don't mind funding the government and it's critical programs. But I am against the Obama proposal to (as he put it on the campaign trail), "Take the income from some people and spread it around". That's NOT government's job.
Comments continue below
Conservative treason? | 2:39 p.m. June 29, 2009
The suggestion that conservatives are treasonous for wanting Fuhrer Obama to
fail in remaking this country into a fascist dictatorship and selling our
national sovereignty to China through debt is laughable. The stench of liberal
hypocrisy overpowers anything you are trying to say, as RedShirt aptly shows.
@ "Anonymous | 1:42 p.m." | 4:01 p.m. June 29, 2009
Anonymous | 1:42 p.m.
It's NEVER "Too Late". There's always 2010 and 2012. That's the beauty of our system of government. People like YOU can't just say, "It's over now, we won the election so we're taking over and running ruoughshod crushing anyone who gets in our way". Because people and parties who rule like that don't last long in American politics.
Keep up your haughty high-and-mighty attitude and you will have plenty of crow to eat in 2010.
The boasting of the Obama-ites has resulted in very high expectations of this Congress and President. If they don't deliver, the cost could be quite dramatic in the comming years.
I'm just sayin... just beating your chest because you won the election, but then not achieving any positive results before the next election... is usually a recipe for disaster.
It's NEVER "Too Late". There's always 2010 and 2012. That's the beauty of our system of government. People like YOU can't just say, "It's over now, we won the election so we're taking over and running ruoughshod crushing anyone who gets in our way". Because people and parties who rule like that don't last long in American politics.
Keep up your haughty high-and-mighty attitude and you will have plenty of crow to eat in 2010.
The boasting of the Obama-ites has resulted in very high expectations of this Congress and President. If they don't deliver, the cost could be quite dramatic in the comming years.
I'm just sayin... just beating your chest because you won the election, but then not achieving any positive results before the next election... is usually a recipe for disaster.
Ha!!! | 5:04 p.m. June 29, 2009
Those claming that Obama isn't a Marxist OK, until he forcable begins
supression, I'll stipulate.
Those claming he isn't a socialist, like JEM, define it for me sweetheart, what is a the defenition of socialist? You claim we don't understand what it means. You claim that you're from a socialist country or that you were born there. How old were you when you came here? How long did you live there? How much did you understand in your youth? When did you live in East Germany?
A lot depends on when you lived there whether you were living under socialism, fascism, or communism. You might want to be sure of the time before you answer. Might I suggest reading a few books to enlighten your mind as to your hero's socialistic tendencies.
-Road To Serfdom
-Who Killed the Constitution
-Liberty and Tyranny
-A Politically Incorrect Guide to the Consitution
Or might you be affraid of truth like your secular progressive group. Do you believe the constitution needs to be interprated or ammended? Answer that question if you dare but then you true colors will be shown.
Those claming he isn't a socialist, like JEM, define it for me sweetheart, what is a the defenition of socialist? You claim we don't understand what it means. You claim that you're from a socialist country or that you were born there. How old were you when you came here? How long did you live there? How much did you understand in your youth? When did you live in East Germany?
A lot depends on when you lived there whether you were living under socialism, fascism, or communism. You might want to be sure of the time before you answer. Might I suggest reading a few books to enlighten your mind as to your hero's socialistic tendencies.
-Road To Serfdom
-Who Killed the Constitution
-Liberty and Tyranny
-A Politically Incorrect Guide to the Consitution
Or might you be affraid of truth like your secular progressive group. Do you believe the constitution needs to be interprated or ammended? Answer that question if you dare but then you true colors will be shown.
bye-bye Limbaughites | 5:10 p.m. June 29, 2009
Reading some of the above postings from some obviously unhappy conservatives
(aren't they all?)
it must truly be dark times for these sad and lonely people (what would you expect when they force-feed themselves on Rush O'Hannity 24/7?)
And they can't understand that even though these are tough economic times, the majority of America is full of hope and joy and rapidly leaving them behind in the dust.
it must truly be dark times for these sad and lonely people (what would you expect when they force-feed themselves on Rush O'Hannity 24/7?)
And they can't understand that even though these are tough economic times, the majority of America is full of hope and joy and rapidly leaving them behind in the dust.
RE: bye-bye Limbaughites | 5:50 p.m. June 29, 2009
Clearly you only read and get your information from one source,
Isn't that the definition of biased, indoctrinated, etc?
And NOT well rounded?
Perhaps you should do a little self-examination, and a some reading and more listening.
Isn't that the definition of biased, indoctrinated, etc?
And NOT well rounded?
Perhaps you should do a little self-examination, and a some reading and more listening.
impossible to do | 6:02 p.m. June 29, 2009
I try hard to find something good to say about the modern American conservative
movement as displayed by the postings above - but ...
Hope Obama fails! | 6:04 p.m. June 29, 2009
I don't care if you call Obama's policies Marxist or socialist.
Whatever they are, they are destroying our economy and our freedom and forcing
everyone onto the government welfare plantation.
I hope Obama fails!
I hope Obama fails!
Anonymous | 6:10 p.m. June 29, 2009
Nobody cares about what the modern American conservative movement is up to
trying to sway American voters (except for perhaps Utah or Idaho).
I thought EVERYBODY knew that by now.
I thought EVERYBODY knew that by now.
Obama IS | 7:51 p.m. June 29, 2009
. . . a marxist socialist. OK. It's not illegal. So why does he, and why
do Paleolibs spend so much time running and hiding from the appelation? If they
think to fool us Neocons [I love that term, by the way, it makes me sound as hip
as Carl Rove, and maybe, just a little dangerous!], it won't work.
Maybe it will work on the obliviots, though.
Note that all presidents since FDR have foolishly adopted one or more socialist principles. Call it "New Deal," or "New Frontier," or "War on Poverty," or even "Compassionate Conservative." All amount to financing handouts for a coveted constituency by stealing from others.
That's what socialists do best.
And that's precisely what the Obama crowd intends to do -- finance one or another scheme calculated to maintain allegiance of some constituency by stealing from another.
It's called politics. And it stinks. Always has. Always will.
All we can do is resist as best we can and pray for an end to politics.
Maybe it will work on the obliviots, though.
Note that all presidents since FDR have foolishly adopted one or more socialist principles. Call it "New Deal," or "New Frontier," or "War on Poverty," or even "Compassionate Conservative." All amount to financing handouts for a coveted constituency by stealing from others.
That's what socialists do best.
And that's precisely what the Obama crowd intends to do -- finance one or another scheme calculated to maintain allegiance of some constituency by stealing from another.
It's called politics. And it stinks. Always has. Always will.
All we can do is resist as best we can and pray for an end to politics.
Capitalism in action! | 12:39 a.m. June 30, 2009
The near-nationalization of banks, the take over of GM and handing it over to
the unions, the current efforts to take over health care, the ridiculous power
grab that is cap and tax, trying to "spread the wealth around." Oh
yeah, that's capitalism in action.
The writer obviously doesn't know his definitions either, because Fuhrer Obama is proceeding down the same path as Castro, Chavez and his other marxist buddies. He is doing it with greater stealth and more lies, but he is doing it all the same.
The writer obviously doesn't know his definitions either, because Fuhrer Obama is proceeding down the same path as Castro, Chavez and his other marxist buddies. He is doing it with greater stealth and more lies, but he is doing it all the same.
Oliver | 4:38 a.m. June 30, 2009
@Marxist=socialist (previous page) and in general--
The problem with your statement is, that most poor people are NOT lazy, irresponsible or ineffective. They are poor, because they grew up in less fortunate circumstances. Further, you point out the difference between Obama and communists in your very own statement: The fact, that nobody is supposed to advance in communism, only the leading elite.
It is a puzzle, how especially members of the church resent the idea of giving to the less fortunate. Isn't that what Christ has taught? Joseph Smith's idea of living together was actually very close to socialism--The united order. Like you say, it was very much about "From each according to their ability and to each according to their need".
Social medicine e.g. has nothing whatsoever to do with socialsim or communism. It is a way of taking care of our brothers and sisters.
The problem with your statement is, that most poor people are NOT lazy, irresponsible or ineffective. They are poor, because they grew up in less fortunate circumstances. Further, you point out the difference between Obama and communists in your very own statement: The fact, that nobody is supposed to advance in communism, only the leading elite.
It is a puzzle, how especially members of the church resent the idea of giving to the less fortunate. Isn't that what Christ has taught? Joseph Smith's idea of living together was actually very close to socialism--The united order. Like you say, it was very much about "From each according to their ability and to each according to their need".
Social medicine e.g. has nothing whatsoever to do with socialsim or communism. It is a way of taking care of our brothers and sisters.
Oliver | 6:04 a.m. June 30, 2009
To Ha!!!!!
I am not JEM, nor did I grow up in East Germany, but I know enough about it to say, that your precious life under Barack Obama is so much better compared to that of former East Germans.
Here are some examples:
- The "Planwirtschaft" (planned economy) meant that econmy was heavily regulated by the government in such a way, that government decided what was produced and how much of it was to be produced.
- Freedom of choice concerning education and career was limited by government. (Today in America it is limited through poverty)
- Critics of the system were imprisoned or shot
- People who wanted to leave the country were imprisoned or shot
- The Stasi was a secret police that kept a watchful eye on your every move. Your neighbor could have been a Stasi agent, ready to betray you to the government if you were not in line.
Those among other things make America a free, not socialistic country, even under Barack Obama. Reaching out to less fortunate is a good thing.
I am not JEM, nor did I grow up in East Germany, but I know enough about it to say, that your precious life under Barack Obama is so much better compared to that of former East Germans.
Here are some examples:
- The "Planwirtschaft" (planned economy) meant that econmy was heavily regulated by the government in such a way, that government decided what was produced and how much of it was to be produced.
- Freedom of choice concerning education and career was limited by government. (Today in America it is limited through poverty)
- Critics of the system were imprisoned or shot
- People who wanted to leave the country were imprisoned or shot
- The Stasi was a secret police that kept a watchful eye on your every move. Your neighbor could have been a Stasi agent, ready to betray you to the government if you were not in line.
Those among other things make America a free, not socialistic country, even under Barack Obama. Reaching out to less fortunate is a good thing.
Thomas Jefferson | 6:05 a.m. June 30, 2009
The depth and breadth of people's ignorance and lack of understanding never
ceases to amaze me.
As long as the majority insists on voting Republican or Democrat, nothing will change.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Albert Einstein
As long as the majority insists on voting Republican or Democrat, nothing will change.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Albert Einstein
Robin Hood & Obama | 9:27 a.m. June 30, 2009
President Obama's mantra of taxing "the rich" to fund his
government programs sounds an awful lot like Robin Hood: robbing the rich to
give to the poor.
Unfortunately for Messrs. Hood and Obama, capitalism is based on the idea of equal opportunity for all, as opposed to Marxism/communism/socialism, which is based on the idea of equal results for all.
Unfortunately for Messrs. Hood and Obama, capitalism is based on the idea of equal opportunity for all, as opposed to Marxism/communism/socialism, which is based on the idea of equal results for all.
re: To 9:04 am | 11:34 a.m. June 30, 2009
"the reason President Obama won is because the last administration nearly
drove our economy and democracy into the ground.
People finally woke up."
i fail to see the logic of that argument. the last adminstration was over. no matter who won, the last administration would still be over. you keep blaming bush for obama's victory but that is not the fact. his campaign was basicly "vote for me and the rich will lose their money and i will give it to you." is there really still doubt that this is what happened? there is other politically logical explination.
People finally woke up."
i fail to see the logic of that argument. the last adminstration was over. no matter who won, the last administration would still be over. you keep blaming bush for obama's victory but that is not the fact. his campaign was basicly "vote for me and the rich will lose their money and i will give it to you." is there really still doubt that this is what happened? there is other politically logical explination.
Obama Republican | 12:17 p.m. June 30, 2009
@Marxist=socialist, let me understand, Obama is a Marxist because he confiscates
peoples money. Are you alluding to taxation? So you are saying Republicans do
not tax and spend, are you sure you want to go down that road? Conservatives
confiscated my $$ for the last 8 years, or did I miss the tax loop holes?
"From each according to their ability and to each according to their need", funny u use a quote that sounds just like King Ben in Mosiah. (like many LDS you might not live as KB suggested)
Last time I checked it was a Communist China that was buying our debt to bail out bad judgment by the Noble Capitalist who sold our country for profit.
I am sure in your Capitalist country we would be so well off. Maybe we should just shut down Public Schools, Public Colleges, Public Libraries, Public Highways, Public Parks, Public everything else and return to a country where there is no middle class just rich and poor.
The end result of un checked capitalism is slave type labor for sheer Profit! Where do you think calls for social justice came from?
"From each according to their ability and to each according to their need", funny u use a quote that sounds just like King Ben in Mosiah. (like many LDS you might not live as KB suggested)
Last time I checked it was a Communist China that was buying our debt to bail out bad judgment by the Noble Capitalist who sold our country for profit.
I am sure in your Capitalist country we would be so well off. Maybe we should just shut down Public Schools, Public Colleges, Public Libraries, Public Highways, Public Parks, Public everything else and return to a country where there is no middle class just rich and poor.
The end result of un checked capitalism is slave type labor for sheer Profit! Where do you think calls for social justice came from?
To Anon | 1:42 | 5:40 p.m. June 30, 2009
Maybe it is too late for Neocons to save the country. The Paleolibs counted
'til they won in Minnesota, just like in Washington State four years
ago.
That's the new Paleolib/ACORN agenda -- keep counting 'til Democrats win.
Kinda reminds me of Iran.
That's the new Paleolib/ACORN agenda -- keep counting 'til Democrats win.
Kinda reminds me of Iran.
Karl Marx | 11:04 a.m. July 1, 2009
Obama is not Marxist--he is a fascist.
What other political system allows publice ownership of business yet the government retains control of their actions....??
Things that make you go....
What other political system allows publice ownership of business yet the government retains control of their actions....??
Things that make you go....
To Anonymous @ 1:42 pm | 12:19 p.m. July 1, 2009
Can't you come up with anything other than empty fallacies to support your
position? Name-calling is childish and adds nothing to the discussion.
You're right. | 12:46 p.m. July 1, 2009
Obama is NOT a Marxist.
However, he is unquestionably a socialist--like Hitler.
However, he is unquestionably a socialist--like Hitler.
LOL | 7:33 a.m. July 2, 2009
Obama "forced no auto manufacturer to take the bailout" is like
stating "nobody forced the starving in Africa to take the rice." We
are moving TOWARDS more government controlled businesses under Obama. And that
is defined by what word?
-Recovering LIberal
-Recovering LIberal
sad day | 7:42 a.m. July 2, 2009
The government is doing a poor job in handling Medicare, so what does Obama
intend to do? Create a national healthcare system that will mimic medicare and
cost individuals enough to make the poor more poor but with equally poor medical
care while the wealthy, likely including Obama, will maintain private healthcare
superior to the government run program. Canada has a two tiered program in
which a person can wait 8 months for an mri or use private coverage and receive
the same mri in 2 days. When I got sick with strep in Germany, I used my
cousin's private doctor for immediate treatment.
Wow | 6:22 p.m. July 2, 2009
Lot's of emotion out there. How about some well-reasoned arguments? Typical
DesNews readers.
re: to 9:04 | 2:41 p.m. July 3, 2009
exactly. that's what i said. "economy was bad and he talked the sweet
talk" regardless of who's fault it is. you can blame obama for the
economy just as much as bush because not only were the dems in control of both
houses of congress when this mess started, but obama was serving in the senate.
the point is, he won because he capitalized on the economy.
So What? | 11:43 a.m. July 28, 2009
Socialism and Communism take away our freedoms. They maybe different but they
accomplish the same goal.
hear no evil see no evil | 12:22 p.m. July 28, 2009
After reading Erik's comments I am reminded of the monkey with his ears and
eyes covered - hear no evil see no evil. Liberals are finding it more and more
difficult to distance their great Zeus teleprompter king from socialism. Obama
is MOST CERTAINLY a socialist Erik - sorry man. Obama was inspired by the
writings of Karl Marx (from Obama's biography). You never read of Obama
being influenced by Washington or Madison - just Marx. Obama's
understanding of American history is sadly lacking as evidence from many of his
statements over the past several months and it seems like he carries a BIG chip
on his shoulder regarding what he does know of our history and has made it his
personal mission to change America into what he deems to be a more reasonable,
socialist state. Obama is all about BIG GOVERNMENT and having government be in
total control of every aspect of our lives from health care to the banking
industry. Our founders had the exact OPPOSITE view of democracy (see John Adams)
and viewed big government as the enemy to freedom. Finally, the Obama facade is
beginning to fade nation wide - thankfully!!!
John | 12:30 p.m. July 28, 2009
This whole discussion is so silly. How long have we had the public school
system around? I got my property tax bill the other day and I have to pay $2K
to send other people's kids to school. How is that not socialist? So is
public school evil?
How about the library? The freeway? Parks? Are all these "government owned/taxpayer subsidized" properties bad? If so, how?
If Obama is a socialist for taxing to redistribute the wealth, then Bush was a tyrant for taxing to send our money overseas to fight a silly war to redeem his father's good name.
How about the library? The freeway? Parks? Are all these "government owned/taxpayer subsidized" properties bad? If so, how?
If Obama is a socialist for taxing to redistribute the wealth, then Bush was a tyrant for taxing to send our money overseas to fight a silly war to redeem his father's good name.
re:John | 12:58 p.m. July 28, 2009
your comment is silly John. Obama has taken BIG GOVERNMENT in America to an
entirely new level never before seen or even dreamed of ... and there is more to
come. Every democratic government provides basic services to its people at a
reasonable level. Every democratic government also provides for its basic
defense against foreign aggression. Obama however has changed the game and is
attempting to FORCE a government control of every aspect of our lives which is
completely contrary to the beliefs of our founding fathers (see John Adams views
on big government). Obama socialized health care plan is a perfect example which
forces ALL AMERICANS onto government "rationed" health care while
eliminating the healthy competition of private providers. The same thing has
happened in Canada and Great Britain and their advise to America - DON'T DO
IT!!!!! Obama is a socialist with his inspiration admittedly coming from Karl
Marx of all people!!! Which other president can you name in US history who was
"inspired" by the founder of communism???? Fortunately the Obama
facade is beginning to fade nation wide as more and more Americans see this man
for the fraud that he is!!
S2 | 4:19 a.m. Aug. 5, 2009
Socialism features a planned economy distributing the work and guaranteeing an
equal and just livelihood to everyone. Re-education forces a sense of community
in place of the glorification of power and success of capitalism.
In Italy and Germany fascism merged the self-interests of despotic, single-party rulers with large corporations for whom war offered big profits.
Obama’s direction for the banking and automobile industries sure quacks like socialism, as Ford looks to become the last free-enterprise American car company.
So there is our truly happy home brought to us by the czars of the federal government who know just what we need. Enlightened public servants will do our consumption planning for us, to include telling us when we are sick, and when we should die.
In Italy and Germany fascism merged the self-interests of despotic, single-party rulers with large corporations for whom war offered big profits.
Obama’s direction for the banking and automobile industries sure quacks like socialism, as Ford looks to become the last free-enterprise American car company.
So there is our truly happy home brought to us by the czars of the federal government who know just what we need. Enlightened public servants will do our consumption planning for us, to include telling us when we are sick, and when we should die.
S2 | 4:20 a.m. Aug. 5, 2009
(continued)
Obama is incrementally using the worst elements from the two greatest economic catastrophes of the 20th Century: fascism and socialism. Consequently, we're moving further away from the most successful economic system in the history of humankind: capitalism.
The dumbed-down population, complacent via the affluence of capitalism, ignorant of history, is instead ‘ga-ga’ over idealism of ‘change.’ Failing to see the real direction of ‘change,’ it will be a fait accompli by the time when choice is gone.
Obama is incrementally using the worst elements from the two greatest economic catastrophes of the 20th Century: fascism and socialism. Consequently, we're moving further away from the most successful economic system in the history of humankind: capitalism.
The dumbed-down population, complacent via the affluence of capitalism, ignorant of history, is instead ‘ga-ga’ over idealism of ‘change.’ Failing to see the real direction of ‘change,’ it will be a fait accompli by the time when choice is gone.
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