Deseret News | Reader comments: Falling tax revenues keep state in a budget crunch

Reader comments
Falling tax revenues keep state in a budget crunch

Dave | 4:02 p.m. June 16, 2009

Yes its a challenge, and YES the taxpayers will be WATCHING!

NO NEW TAXES!

BTW: we taxpayers noticed that the legislature snuck in the INCREASED vehicle reg. fee late last legislative session, and I for one,am planning on voting AGAINST the incumbent in my district, strictly due to that increase!

Ditch the creativity on how to raise taxes without anyone noticing, and concentrate on REDUCING state spending!

How about taking a look at eliminating some of the ridiculously high salaries at the top of state govt.?

Maybe what this state REALLY needs is a whole change in ALL of the elected Reps.

falcon's beak | 4:08 p.m. June 16, 2009

I would not hold your breath hoping the stimulus bill will help anything. It will hurt the economy. This is a Keynesian stimulus always a failure in the past, but political elites as our liberals think they can micromanage the economy. When the economy struck our family we pulled our horns in. So likewise must the Federal government. We need reduced taxes and a dramatic reduction in government workers or preferably a cut in wages. Things could get much worse. Of course we all hope the economy will do well in spite of the stimulus. Without a rip roaring economy we can't handle health costs, SS, and Medicare a total of $75 trillion of future costs.

Restore Sales Tax on Food | 4:17 p.m. June 16, 2009

This is an easy one. Put a penny tax or two back on food. Is a painless way to collect revenue. And it has some equality. The guy who buys the steak pays more than the guy who buys the hot dog. And we all contribute.

Comments continue below

Richard W. | 4:34 p.m. June 16, 2009

Dave, most State employees make about a third of what it takes to run a household. State employees are a loyal bunch of people dedicated to their jobs, and serving the citizens of this state, including your tired butt. This recession will end. Ride it out....

Fellow Taxpayer: | 4:58 p.m. June 16, 2009

Our esteemed Utah Legislators will probably start "floating" all kinds of ways to raise MORE REVENUE!

Lets try not to buy into the "trap" of which group of taxpayers MUST pay more, instead, lets concentrate on letting the legislature know which CUTS we taxpayers might suggest!

Here's my suggestion: Drop the salaries of ALL EMPLOYEES earning over 125,000 per yr. by 10%. Over the years, the legislature hasn't paid enough attention to the salary increases that have occurred. MANY of the salaries have become WAY out of proportion to the actual duties!

Don't like that idea - fine - BUT DON'T RAISE TAXES!

Make different suggestions when you email, or talk to legislators, but at the same time don't let them start talking about RAISING ANY particular tax. They need to understand that a "budget" represents the total amount you have to spend, NOT a way to figure out ways to get extra taxes without we taxpayers noticing!

Why Hike Taxes? | 5:12 p.m. June 16, 2009

Why is it that during recessions businesses cover revenue shortfalls by cutting back and governments cover revenue shortfalls by raising taxes? I am out of work, so raising income tax won't increase state revenues, and raising sales taxes, vehicles fees (taxes), and other taxes will take what little I have left. Cut back on spending and reduce our taxes, please. We are hurting. We have no more to give.

Dave II | 5:15 p.m. June 16, 2009

Interesting statement in the article about the Democrats suggesting if the tax cuts had not been made law the state would have roughly $360 million more to help in these budget times. The response being that the legislature and state would be in the same position as the $360 M would have been used up in the annual budget.

Does this tell us anything? We need to keep taxes low to reduce the power, influence, size and spending of government. The same thing Reagan and Republicans preached in the '80s and '90s. Too bad Republican politicians became Democrats during the past decade with their poor spending, increased size of government, and increasing power of government. Now we have an administration that is literally uncontrolled in its power grab, spending, and increase of government.

More of our $s will be used by government as fees and taxes increase and we won't be in any better shape! I am speaking of state and federal government.

Jerri | 5:24 p.m. June 16, 2009

Wow, fellow taxpayer! I would gladly take a 10% pay cut if my salary were in excess of $125,000. Take a look at Utahrights.com (I believe that's the correct website). It lists state employees' salaries. Most are well below the $60,000 mark.

Another thought | 5:27 p.m. June 16, 2009

State employees will actually take home less commencing July, 2009, because the medical insurance premiums have increased and no raises are being given.

Charles | 5:53 p.m. June 16, 2009

One of the largest costs in education is the ridiculous duplication of administrative bureaucracy in the larger school districts, coupled with the excessive salaries paid to administrators. You often find 3,4, or even 5 people filling positions that realisticly could be staffed by a single competent person. End the administrative bloat and taxpayors will be more sympathetic to the legitimate needs of education.

Ken Goddard | 7:40 p.m. June 16, 2009

The solution: raise the ridiculously low taxes on houses and real property so that education can be decently funded. That is the only avenue left of the 3 big tax (sales and income) generators. We are the Mississippi west of the Mississippi.

Also, I eat out sparingly due to the 7.7% tax. Only a dummy would pay that when considering the meager return on savings. Bad enough to have to pay 6.6% on everything else.

J | 8:18 p.m. June 16, 2009

Dear Ken Goddard:

Rather than suggesting an increase in tax to raise govt revenues (treating it like a business) why not reduce the cost of govt. by eliminating programs (treating the matter like the govt. has a responsibility to spend wisely the money collected from the tax payers-a practice which the taxpayers are forced to implement in times like this)

Dave II | 10:40 p.m. June 16, 2009

Re: J 8:18 p.m.

Exactly. Decrease government spending! Government will spend everything it takes. No amount will ever be enough. We the taxpayers must put a limit on government power, growth, and spending.

Charles | 11:07 p.m. June 16, 2009

Looks like it is time to cut the excess out of government once and for all!

On the Other Hand | 6:48 a.m. June 17, 2009

These comments illustrate the selfishness of our day, gimme, gimme, gimme. Demanding services while refusing to pay taxes can only go so far.

Cut the fat out of government means no meals for the shut-in elderly, no dental for the indigent and less education for children. We live in a sick world where million dollar homes sprout up everywhere, yet we cannot give a hand-up to those in need. Raising tuition at state universities which we did this year, means the working poor will never get out while the wealthy will continue to educate their children, thus reinforcing society's inequity.

Government is what we make of it, it is not good or bad unless we make it so. We are in a very sad state, we considers ourselves Christian, yet believe it is OK for Millionaires to live in opulence while children a few miles away go hungry. I got to have five cars, a new boat for a week at Lake Powell, jet skis, a motorhome and cabin, but let the children get less money for education than any state in the nation. It is madness. Stop and look at what you are saying!

Government Monster | 7:18 a.m. June 17, 2009

never cuts back. They only grow. Expect fees to increase everywhere they can figure out to jack them up.

Predictable | 7:24 a.m. June 17, 2009

Utah government is so predictable and corrupt its inevitable that taxes will skyrocket again. Instead of cutting spending they want to tax the fewer working people on smaller incomes to compensate for government mismanagement and fraud. What part of cut, cut, cut, don't they understand? Not only are the workers facing outrageous inflation and income and job losses our government is being irresponsible and unreasonable to keep raising and adding taxes.

Instead of helping the economy, they are driving us deeper in to the recession and depression. All the stimulus funds the state received have not been used to help the economy. It has been irresponsibly transfered to government operations and budget shortfalls for the next 2 years. This state is starting to push the buttons of rebellion and anarchy in their refusal to cut what is not necessary for government.

This means major cuts in welfare and social services and education, especially to non american citizens and illegal foreign nationals. Face the facts, Utah government is in the recession as much as its citizens and nothing is normal or as usual. If state government does not make major cuts, all government will collapse.

david jay | 7:25 a.m. June 17, 2009

I can't believe I read this sentence. ...Utah's budget is ONLY 10.5 Billion.... Somehow being able to write or even think ONLY 10.5 billion is a stretch. My personal budget is much smaller. I am making less money and every entity is talking about raising taxes. My budget is ONLY 82 thousand. I wish I could raise my salary like government raises taxes whenever I wish.

Sam | 10:16 a.m. June 17, 2009

Education needs to take a haircut - people need to stop focusing on how much we spend per pupil (because we have so many more kids and lower incomes) and realize that 62% of the budget is spent on education. The national average for education spending as a percentage of the states' total budget is 46%.

Education only got a 2-3% cut this past year where the state average was 15%, so other vital services got HUGE cuts...some close to 20%.

Fewer school days, close schools in areas in more mature neighborhoods where enrollments are falling (like Provo), etc.

I support education, but when we don't have the money we don't have the money.

TO: Sam | 10:45 a.m. June 17, 2009

There are no good alternatives for cutting education. Class sizes are already in the high 20's. And there are no more easy cuts. Further cuts will be more teachers cut. You will be approaching 30 kids per student with more cuts. Go visit a class. Try teaching 30 4th graders. Keeping the class size at 25 is worth an extra cent or two of tax on food.

anon | 11:01 a.m. June 17, 2009

We need to eliminate the per dependant tax exemption. We can not afford to fund our education correctly yet we reward people for having large families and using more services by charging them less. Thats like taking your family of 10 to diner and being charged 5$ a plate when a family of 3 is charged 8$. It kills me how so many of the conservative people in this state blather on about personal responsibility but then dont bat an eye when someone else is paying to support their brood.

Are you serious? | 11:06 a.m. June 17, 2009

re. Sam. Did you really say "but when we don't have the money we don't have the money"?! So your suggestion is to jeopardize the education of the next generation who will be making decisions for you and I in 20 years? Are you serious?! Listen to what you're saying. That does not sound very supportive of education. All of us are feeling the pinch. The old, the young, and everyone in-between. Have you thought about why we spend 62% in comparison to 46%? The more kids you have the more of a tax break you get. Other states do not do that to the extent that Utah does. We, in education, are looking at ways to further pinch our pennies. And still try to meet state and national standards. On top of dealing with increased community, family, and personal crisis our students come to school with. So please, don't think for a minute that educators are sitting by enjoying the ride of this recession. We have become an easy target by people like you because we have a large sum of the states budget....this is sad!

Anonymous | 11:13 a.m. June 17, 2009

It's government "mismanagement?" The economy is in a depression so fewer taxes are being paid in while the state can't reduce the length of roads or the number of the population they must serve.

In a depression, the number requiring government help increases.

You can whine, believe there are hidden pots of gold and that there are evil government employees conspiring to take you money.

Conservative are amazing. They think believing makes it so. They have never took accounting but they are accountants. They have never studied economics but they believe the economics of scale is a false assertion.

Is there anything an uneducated conservative isn't a expert on?

Government is faced with two realities. They must keep aging infrastructure working while building more to met pollution increases.

Government faces higher costs, just like you face.

Conservatives have child like minds. They think once a freeway, building or school is build the expense stops. You have freeways that are 40 years old. You have old buildings. Things wear out. The public demands more roads schools and police.

Why let your fantasy be interrupted by facts?

C.W. | 11:37 a.m. June 17, 2009

Here's a suggestion: Yes, I know the issue has come up before - but - How about making it MANDATORY that the various cities arrest illegals? They GREATLY INCREASE class sizes, pay NO TAXES (except sales tax),they use MANY free state services, etc. If the legislature would begin withholding sales tax revenues from the cities who refuse to enforce the law, it MIGHT make a difference in cities' efforts towards immigration enforcement!
I get a little frustrated with the legislature trying to raise more taxes, while at the same time the illegals are tapping the state for all they can get, without putting ANY taxes back in! Why doesn't UEA step forward on this issue?

no new taxes - no tax raises | 11:44 a.m. June 17, 2009

anon communicates his/her ignorance by raising the per dependent tax exemption. This won't help Utah financially and is a tired cliche from anti-mormon and anti-family types.

I am happy to see so many on this posting stick to the "no new taxes" idea. This has been the only thing proven to work in our economic history - EVERYONE including families and government - needs to tighten the belt, make careful decisions and avoid debt. As we all do this, including government, things will begin to right themselves.

Even in terms of basic services - we as a people have shown that we will step in and help our neighbor when needed. If my elderly neighbor needs me to drive her to the senior center instead of taking the free bus, I'd be happy to. Neighborhood watches do a better job of policing neighborhoods and would increase if services were diminished from the police force.

If we can live by the principles we know to work - frugality, saving, helping our neighbors, reuse, recycle, etc. things will naturally improve. If we tax and spend, they will continue to worsen.

WWJD? | 12:01 p.m. June 17, 2009

RE: On the Other Hand

Yes, we are mostly Christians. However, I don't remember Jesus telling us to give more to Ceasar so that he could take care of the poor. It is our responsibility to care for the poor, not government's. Seriously, why is government always the answer to every social problem?

Re:no new taxes-no new taxes | 12:41 p.m. June 17, 2009

I am an active Mormon with 4 children, all of whom have attended Utah public schools. I am neither anti-Mormon nor anti-family.

I believe now is not the time to "raise" taxes.

But, the idea that reducing the number of dependent tax exemptions "won't help Utah financially" is simply wrong. It will help Utah financially to cut the number of children who can be claimed as dependants--for state tax purposes, at least (Utah can do nothing about federal taxes).

Sorry, but this seems fair to me. I suggest the legislature dispassionately consider it.

Isn't part of provident living "paying your own way?" We all do this with taxes, of course. And, it benefits society to have an educated population. Thus, I don't suggest we eliminate dependant exemptions completely.

But, to strike a balance where, say, after claiming an exemption for 3 children parents, in effect, pay more for a 4th, 5th, or 10th child by not claiming an exemption for them seems appropriate to me.

I certainly wouldn't have declined to have my fourth child because I could not claim a tax exemption for her.

You can raise my taxes | 1:40 p.m. June 17, 2009

If the alternative is cutting the education budget in the state you can raise my taxes! I am willing to pay 5% more in state income tax to improve the funding to K-12 and higher education in the state. Cutting education funding would be the dumbest thing to do during our current economic times.

New Tax Line | 2:00 p.m. June 17, 2009

For everyone that wants to raise taxes as the solution to the problem, let's try this: Why not put a new line on the tax form that says "Voluntary Tax Donation". You could even put "Voluntary Education Donation" and have it go directly to education. This would allow everyone that wants to donate an additional portion of their income and add to the tax revenue. I guarantee you that none of you that are so "willing" to pay extra taxes would contribute to this line item. When push comes to shove, no one wants to pay extra taxes, not even the bleeding-heart liberals.

Rick | 5:19 p.m. June 17, 2009

There is some silliness going on here by those suggesting raising taxes. Raising taxes does not always raise the money one expects. For example, raise taxes on gas or car registration and a car is taken off the road. Raise income taxes and not adjust the AMT for inflation and a spouse switches to part-time work. Or more is contributed to a 401K to shelter money from the the tax man. Raise property taxes and a person decides not to buy that larger home after all.

All of these actions I have personally taken to reduce taxes. One is not entirely helpless. A tax increase will not always bring in the expected revenue, especially in times like these when people are saving all they can before they too are unemployed.

RE: Rick | 5:39 p.m. June 17, 2009

You are right but most people are not as educated on tax issues as you are, so they end up paying more taxes when the rates are raised.

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