Deseret News | Reader comments: Dinosaurs revisited at BYU museum

Reader comments
Dinosaurs revisited at BYU museum

Just The Facts | 7:57 a.m. May 16, 2009

Let me get this straight. Dinosaurs lived millions of years ago, yet somehow the earth is only six thousand years old? When I went to BYU, the church taught that these fossils were left over debris from another world. Talk about denial of reality. Small wonder I left the church. Small wonder no one considers BYU a real university.

SFC RET DENNIS | 9:15 a.m. May 16, 2009

TO: Just the Facts, The church never said the earth was only six thousand years old, we don't know how long Adam and Eve were in the garden before eating the forbidden fruit. Admiral life was her long before Adam and Eve and lets remember according to the bible for everyday in heaven 1,000 years passes on earth and if dinosaurs lived millions of years ago on world's that no longer exists then there you have your millions of years ago when they live. You sound like someone who needs to get his fact strait and you living the Church, if you were ever a member, has nothing to do with this issue, remember God is perfect man is not and we all make mistakes no matter what religion you are your leaders are prone to be wrong, it is arrogant to think that our church leaders, of any church, are perfect and don't make mistakes just look at history and you will see this and churches long before the restoration that we believe in.

Millions vs thousands | 9:30 a.m. May 16, 2009

We really don't know the correct age of the fossils vs the age of the earth. In same areas, decomposition has maintained a faster rate of breakdown than others.

This we do know - that the earth had "giants" roaming upon the land (who knows what those giants are - beast and/or man), their remains are interred within the earth's crust, and it's fascinating to see the old world revealed to the existing world. Personally - I'm enthralled with the hype about the entact baby woolly mammoth discovered near the Artic regions of Asia. Incredible!

Comments continue below

Playerpage | 10:20 a.m. May 16, 2009

Religion: This is what God did.

Science: This is how we THINK he did it. (A moving target as new info comes out).

Everything else is conjecture and it is foolish to try to align the two. My father was/is a Geologist AND a faithful member of the LDS Church and he never once had his faith shaken. Because, as has been pointed out, the Church has never had the Evangelical 6000-year position.

Peter's 1000-years equal's a day statement was, and always will be, an illustration to his readers of the fact that time does not exist with God. Hooray for Dinosaurs!

Anonymous | 11:32 a.m. May 16, 2009

i'm a jack mormon, but to me god is a master scientist in all fields and operates within physical law, which is eternal.

the 1,000 year thing to me is a representation illustrating that a great deal of time was necessary in an orderly scientific method to effect the creation. it was step by step guided by god in a deliberate scientific method. i believe god himself operates within physical law.

i see nothing that i said in conflict with mormon teachings.

No death prior to fall | 11:33 a.m. May 16, 2009

There is no way to get around the fact that the best theologians of the church have taught that there was no death of any kind on the earth, prior to the fall; that Adam was the "first flesh" of all living things, or in other words, the first to become mortal. See also, Bible Dictionary, Fall of Adam. I believe the Bible dictionary went through rigorous review by church leaders prior to publication.

And yet, we are taught that dinosaurs roamed the earth millions of years ago. It does appear to be a contradiction. I side with the church, though, I must admit, I don't know how to justify my position logically. Although it has occurred to me that we're not saying there was no life prior to the fall, only no death. Perhaps the two concepts are not incongruous after all.

anonymous | 12:19 p.m. May 16, 2009

to no death..., i see no conflict. the evolution of of man/woman happened gradually millions of years ago along with dinosaurs. who really knows what the apple represented, or the garden of eden, etc. it's allegory in my opinion, part of sacred canon. i just believe everything was created scientifically, no waving of a wand over 6,000 years, in an orderly fashion and that this doesn't conflict with mormonism. maybe i'm missing something.

SFC RET DENNIS | 12:57 p.m. May 16, 2009

To No death prior to fall, The Bible teaches that god put animals on earth before man, beast of every kind.

An Atheist says | 1:15 p.m. May 16, 2009

It's funny to watch all the theologians wrestle together scientific fact and what the bible says... My personal favorite is that the devil put the Dinos bones here to lead us astray... Priceless!!!

Anonymous | 1:22 p.m. May 16, 2009

The Bible was written by people who believed illness was caused by god's wrath and who would see striking a match as miraculous.

Mormons thought the Leonids meteor shower of 1833 as a sign of Christs imminent return.

I don't put much in organized superstitions.

KM | 1:50 p.m. May 16, 2009

@ anon and atheist, keep on with your sceptisism and your wanderings. When you are humble enough to realize that somebody created this earth and this universe, and that it has order and purpose, then you will begin to be on the path toward true enlightnement. As long as you maintain your arrogant veiw of something from nothing, you will remain in a spiritual fog. What are you so afraid of? That their is a God and that he knows and cares about you? Stop being so closed minded and have a little faith.

Playerpage | 2:28 p.m. May 16, 2009

To: No death prior

Again, the whole "Theologians teach us there was no death" coupled with "and yet we are taught dinos were millions of years ago" leaves out that there are two different sets of individuals doing the teaching.

There is no contradiction here. Scientists come up with their best guess on a subject that God has gotten as detailed on so far as to say, "Here's what I did; ain't it cool?" The "Theologians" of which you speak were never prophets. The only certainty is that "Adam fell that men might be," bringing mortality to MAN.

Study your Gospel. It is Truth. Study your Science. It is truth, but with a small "t" because it is continually being refined and updated as Father in Heaven allows His most intelligent thinkers to uncover new mysteries. As I said before, trying to reconcile the two will usually be an exercise in futility.

The Lord has promised that all Truth fits into One Eternal Round; eventually we'll get to see where the two (Sci & Rel) go together. My guess is it will be on the Other Side when they are all laid out for us.

SFC RET DENNIS | 2:55 p.m. May 16, 2009

To Anonymous Where do you get your information there is nothing in the teachings of the LDS faith that the "Leonids meteor shower of 1833 as a sign of Christs imminent return." The scripture tell us how he will return a meteor shower was never in the scriptures tells us a different story.

Alverne | 2:59 p.m. May 16, 2009

I have lived for many years in a place where large forests, lakes,rivers, Northern lights, ect. exist.
Standing in a beautiful part of nature tells me that Heavenly Father does exist and has created all things. This I believed before I joined the LDS church and now more than ever. As a teacher I learned much about animal life and nature and I know that all of these wonders did not just happen. As for the dinosaurs, well, I may not understand everything about them, but what does it really matter? Does knowing affect my life and spiritual growth? No. I just trust that all things are here for some reason. I lived without faith for many years and always felt alone. Now as a member of Heavenly Father's church I am never alone. Sometimes we question things to death. As human beings we give out ideas, sometimes they are right and sometimes wrong. Only Heavenly Father and Jesus have all the answers. In time we will know too.

WeeScotsman | 3:01 p.m. May 16, 2009

There are several points that have been raised here that have been clarified by faithful LDS scientists and The First Presidency.(See BYU Students Package on Evolution)
1)The Bible-We beleive it to be true-AS FAR AS IT IS TRANSLATED CORRECTLY. Check out the several meanings of translated. It just does'nt mean from one language to another. (Go on search for it!)
2. Evolution check out these books by LDS scientists!: Relics of Eden Daniel J Fairbanks,Evolution and Mormonism Trent Stephens & D J Meldrum, Of Heaven and Earth Editor David L Clark,Evolution What the fossils Say Donald R Prothero (Non LDS)These are CURRENT publications

WeeScotsman | 4:13 p.m. May 16, 2009

RE Bible translation this info is found on fairlds.org
Josph Smith said "I beleive the Bible as it read when it came from the pen of the ORIGINAL writers. Ignorant translators, careless transcribers, OR designing and corrupt priests have committed MANY errors" JS often used the words translated and translation not in the narrow sense of rendering the text from one language to another but in THE WIDER SENSE of:Transmission, having reference to COPYING,EDITING,ADDING TO,TAKING FROM,REPHRASING AND INTERPRETING. This is substantially beyond the usual meaning of translation.So the Bible has suffered at the hands of editors,copyists and revisionists through centuries of transmission. This especially true of the Old Testament which includes Genesis and Exodus.
Article by John F Hall 5 Star Rating
Talmage believed in death before Adam as did BH Roberts. Joseph F Smiths book Man His origin and Destiny was criticised by David O McKay as was McKonckies Mormon Doctrine as both were these men's own opinions... Statements made at Gen Conf. have also been clarified as personal opinions. The Church takes no official stance on Organic Evolution!!!They leave it to scientists and spiritual matters to themselves

No death prior to fall | 4:18 p.m. May 16, 2009

To Wee Scotsman:
Your comments and references are appreciated. I have done and will do as you've suggested. I once took the position of Bruce R. McConkie and Joseph Fielding Smith on evolutionary matters and in my own HP group meeting, I felt as though I was generally disbelieved, even though I was only quoting. I opined that the measuing device of scientists may be off considerably, wrt bodies found that apparently died (lived) thousands of years ago. Are you aware of anything that has been said on that particualr subject. WRT "Translate, go on look it up." Do you have reference to something other than a standard dictionary?

RJ Huckaby | 4:32 p.m. May 16, 2009

You'd think people would have more to do than play games about what God did! After all he is God almighty. The creater of all things. Even small minded people.

Cognitive Dissonance | 6:09 p.m. May 16, 2009

If this is the kind of scholarship that comes out of BYU, and represents the theology put forth by the Mormon church, then "Just The Facts" was smart to get out of there! You folks will justify ANYTHING!

You don't even understand the definition of science OR religion!

Anonymous | 9:36 p.m. May 16, 2009

PAC 10 here we come. I just think we won them over.

SFC RET DENNIS | 10:14 p.m. May 16, 2009

To Cognitive Dissonance like everyone ells who likes, loves to ditch on the LDS church you have missed the point. Just because we be differently does not mean we don't understand I find people like you are the ones who don't understand the definition of religion because if you did you would not say the things you do. However that is your problem not mine, it is people like you who are narrow-minded, we believe everyone has the right to believe in God are not believe in God and no one has the right to condemn you for it. If any LDS person does then they are not following what the church teaches on the subject. It dont matter what you believe God will decide who will go to heaven and who won't he will looking at how we lived, how we treated each other and did we try our best to live the way he wonted based on our understanding. I know of no other church that teaches this.

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