Deseret News | Title IX is at it again with sand volleyball

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Title IX is at it again with sand volleyball

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Sport? | 6:24 p.m. May 6, 2009

Athletic ability doesn't make an activity a sport. Dance and drill are not sports, no matter how athletic the participants. That doesn't mean they aren't great and I am not praising them, they just aren't sports. Why is that such a problem?

Ballet isn't a sport | 6:25 p.m. May 6, 2009

It is terribly athletic, but it is an art.

Men's Volleyball | 6:36 p.m. May 6, 2009

Many in my community don't like wrestling. The junior high wrestling team can't possibly win a meet even if every athlete on the team wins their match. The high school team is close to the same.
On the other hand there are many young men who would love to play volleyball but there's no team because of title 9. And they can't get rid of wrestling because of all of the adults who wrestled and don't want to see it go away.
Let students play where there's interest. If you can't field a team in a certain sport so be it. If money is a problem, get more money from the community - they will step up.

Comments continue below

jane | 6:45 p.m. May 6, 2009

The original intent of Title IX was to add women's sports NOT cut men's team's if you look at U Texas they have never cut a men's team. It's the athletic departments being cheap and taking the easy way out when they cut men's programs. Football is one of the problems. Everything the poster Idaho said was correct. The posters on this site should stop taking their anger out on the girls teams that were created because of Title IX and should instead go after their cheap athletic departments for not having enough sports for all the boys.

Gretzky | 6:47 p.m. May 6, 2009

Title IX needs to be modified to essentially exclude football from the figures. since there is NO such thing as girls football, then just exclude football since the BSC and not the NCAA controls it, then things would become remarkably easier for schools to have the traditional sports and folks like BYU could make their men's hockey, lacrosse and soccer teams NCAA sanctioned etc...

Football IS the problem | 6:56 p.m. May 6, 2009

Football funds all the women's sports and most of the men's sports as well. I personally know girls who play high school sports of any kind being recruited by schools to play other sports because they can't fill a roster. Football takes a lot of athletes to play, all male, which creates an imbalance. Football teams that are financially self supporting should be exempt from Title IX numbers.

Idahoan | 11:09 p.m. May 6, 2009

Interesting that the NCAA is not sanctioning sand volleyball for a sport. The University of Washington just announced cutting the men's and women's swim teams. Oregon State is examining its athletics and nothing is safe from getting cut. Why does the NCAA add a sport when universities and colleges are struggling economically in the athletic departments, as well as the academic side? I just don't imagine any athletic director thinking, "We just laid off a few people and cut a program. Why don't we add sand volleyball?"

Who cares | 12:03 a.m. May 7, 2009

Volleyball is a good sport, why do we have to have beach volleyball...That's like saying we now need beach football, or beach soccer or beach track..STUPID!!!.

rower | 9:55 a.m. May 7, 2009

Why does everyone think that rowing teams did not exist prior to Title IX? The vast majority of the womens rowing programs that became varsity were already club programs at their respective universities...and Title IX was the thing that gave universities the shove to make them varsity...I would love to see the author (who obviously knows very little about the sport of rowing) do some research and see if he can find a varsity women's rowing program that was not a club prior to it's elevation to varsity status...

So if interest is a reason for making a sport varsity...it seems rowing meets that criteria.

Knowwhat | 10:25 a.m. May 7, 2009

I think BYU's ballroom dance team should be inclued in Title IX, they are much quicker and more athletic that anyone on BYU's football or basketball teams.

anotherRower | 10:42 a.m. May 7, 2009

Get a grip. Title IX doesn't make schools get rid of mens' sports, it makes them provide proportionate opportunities. If your schools choose to do that by axing wrestling, that's THEIR CHOICE, not a Title IX mandate. For a fine example of doing it right, look at UT-Austin.

As for relative interest in sports (girls vs boys) - if you cared about your sisters/daughters/girlfriends AT ALL, you would be asking WHY it is that young girls tend to not have the sports opportunities that you all have and so highly value, and thus end up not as primed for collegiate sports. But instead you begrudge efforts to provide those opportunities at the collegiate level, rather than working to find ways to have those opportunities for women (crew, field hockey, etc) not cost men (wrestling, swimming, etc).

Final crew note - some of the best rowers (men AND women) in the country, and thus the world, began rowing in college. That's how the sport works everywhere.

Joe | 10:45 a.m. May 7, 2009

If colleges sponsor "sand" volleyball will the participants wear two piece swimsuits? If they do, perhaps that will start to diminish the disparate interest between men's and women's sports.

Knowwhat | 11:10 a.m. May 7, 2009

Face the facts, most sports are discriminating. Most sports are not played by the average human, but are freaks on display. That is why it is more entertaining. I know someone will come up with a sport that has average humans playing it, but the vast majority are being played by abnormal people, they are stronger, jump higher, run faster or are taller. Gymnastics for example usually has smaller height participants, which are better suited physically for that sport. Take volleyball, beach, indoor, whatever. Probably 95% of male college or professional volleyball teams are 6'4" or taller. That already discriminates against 98% of the US population from playing that sport. The same is true with womens, their players are 98% taller than all the women in the US. If you want to watch the best, you have to let the freaks play or make laws that you must have someone on every team representing each height group or sub group in the population. Title IX is a farse, it has ruined college athletics. Let schools have equal amounts of mens and womens sports, but throw out the scholarship rule.

COACH | 11:19 a.m. May 7, 2009

Rather than knock Title IX, or the NCAA, or Women's sports in general, why don't we take a look at the elephant in the room. Why does Division 1 football require 85 full scholarships. There are full scholarship football players who NEVER PLAY! Student athletes who are recruited, given a full scholarship, go to school for free for four or five years, maybe graduate, and NEVER PLAY A SNAP. NFL rosters are half the size of the collegiate counterpart.

Before you argue that revenue from football pays for other sports, realize that less than half of collegiate football programs are revenue producers. Most lose money.

Women's rowing offers 20 scholarships. The squad size of a women's rowing team at the NCAA's is 23. The average size of a women's rowing team? 45 athletes. That means that 25 athletes are PAYING TO GO TO SCHOOL. Now that, is a revenue producing sport.

Do you want to talk about graduation rates or the true meaning of student athlete?

Coach

Solution 101 | 1:40 p.m. May 7, 2009

A soultion has already been offered to this problem many times. Take football out of the equation and title IX will work much better. Jane, anotherRower,and coach can you support this?

The article states that there are more scholarships for females in soccer, basketball, volleyball, and track and field. I suspect there are more scholarships for females across the board in all the other sports. After football girls have the advantage over boys.

Jane and anotherRower argues that we should blame the administrators for not putting the money up to keep male sports. Easy for them to say since they do not have to come up with the money. Perhaps they are right and some administrators could be doing more, but I believe this perception helps them avoid the responsibility that title IX should take for the situation. It helps them to avoid looking at what changes could be made to make it more fair.

AnotherRower thinks those of us who think title IX needs to be changed are uncaring of females. From my view I think she lacks concern for boys who are at a disadvantage in most all other sports. Keep title IX, but it needs change.

rowing coach | 1:48 p.m. May 7, 2009

Title IX is fantastic - women do not have access to the same opportunities in high school as men and there is a need to correct that at the college level until society as a whole let's women know that it is OK to like sports and be athletic.

I competed for an underfunded, non-NCAA DIII men's program for four years alongside a number of women as a rower. Not for a single moment do I resent their access to additional resources - I made my sport what I wanted it to be. If athletes, male or female, wish to participate in sport, something that they love, no amount of interference by administrators can stop them.

There are club sports teams out there that are well funded thanks to the hard work of their athletes and alumni, teams that can go toe-to-toe with the best varsity programs.

Please don't trash the support of those who learn to row in college either - nearly half of the Olympic team this year learned to row their first year of higher education.

Troy | 2:03 p.m. May 7, 2009

Bottom line--football is the issue. It takes several male scholarships to build a football team.

Lost | 3:33 p.m. May 7, 2009

I lost my full-ride wrestling scholarship at Utah when I was on my mission because of Title IX. Let's make it totally equal in college sports. One basketball team with men and women both allowed to try out for the one team, the same with volleyball, soccer, etc. Men and women trying out equally for the same team...now you can be truely equal:)

JD | 4:52 p.m. May 7, 2009

Men's varsity particiopation has been growing during the expansion of women's athletics. The problem is, it's almost all in football. As a former coach and educator, I know that this isn't about men's vs. women, it's about haves vs have nots, the minor and Olympic sports vs. huge revenue sports. Wrestling and women's rowing have been on the same side, just under the same heel at different times.

D1 football is the tail that wags the dog and as has no place in the university system. All sports should be non-scholarship and coaches should get paid teacher salaries. Do that and you can have wrestling and everything else. No wonder our education system is so whacked. Universities are known more for heir mascots than for learning. AD's and presidents are now ceos of major sports franchises. Football and basketball coaches are pop celebrities, and few of their athletes are functioning students. Get these goons off campus!

Tom | 5:02 p.m. May 7, 2009

I am sick of title IX. Yes, women should have the right to play the sports they want. But to deny men the right to play because of some stupid "equality" law is absurd. It used to be be good, but now is very discriminatory. It no longer helps women, it just brings down men.

Anonymous | 5:59 p.m. May 7, 2009

The whole Title IX makes me sick. I have 2 daughters and love them very much. One hates sports and the other one was a very good athlete in high school and was actually offered a full ride to row in college. My son who rows, 2nd in the nation in a 4+ in high school, was recruited by all of the top 10 programs in the country to row. None could offer him a scholarship because the women were getting them - UNBELIVABLE AND AN OFFENSE TO ANY FAIR MINDED PERSON.

Brandon | 7:59 p.m. May 7, 2009

If anyone is reading this. I wrestled at BYU. I came back from my mission and the team was gone. I guarantee that I worked harder than any other athlete outside of wrestling. The funny thing is, was BYU at the time was having a hard time finding scholarships for the girls softball team. I should have played girls softball.

Bottom line is we shouldn't have men's or women's sports. It should be whoever makes the team regardless of sex. This would be fair because the ladies and the men would both tryout, and the better athlete should make the team. If it is a women, then it should be a women. If it is a man, then it should be a man. This way no athlete is robbed of a scholarship who rightfully should be playing the sport they worked hard at.

outsider looking in | 8:08 p.m. May 7, 2009

I think it is great that they added sand volleyball but it shold have been for both men & women. There are still so many students that would welcome boys indoor volleyball but find it is too difficult financially.
Yes, football does bring in the biggest crowds but even as a professional sport it does as well.
I just wish guys who have the idea that volleyball is a girls only sport would take the time to watch a few college level games before making up thier minds. Now this idea will be deeper seeded now that they only recognize for sand volleyball only for women in the NCAA arenas.

Get on Board | 11:11 p.m. May 7, 2009

Wow lets get realistic!
If you take football out of the title IX equation--just imagine the HUGE explosion of spending by schools. Those few schools with profitable programs would spend more and become that much better. The rest of the country would fall by the wayside. That would RUIN college football nationwide.

Lost and Brandon: really now? Coed varsity tryouts? I really hope that my computer is screening out your sarcasm or something, because that suggestion is incredibly unrealistic.

Equality | 8:16 p.m. May 9, 2009

Then let's have one team per sport. No more gender based teams if the Title IX lovers want true equality. Can anyone tell me a problem with that?

awesomeron | 6:14 p.m. May 10, 2009

Re: Awesomeron: Not that much I admit, but I am learning more and more everyday. I have in reality read the whole Honor Code.

I would have loved to have attended as an 18 year old, however my situation directed me more towards the Armed Services, so I was in the Army and Stationed in Germany, when I was 18 sorry about that. Not.

I did not obtain a Degree till I was in my late 50's, May father had a Degree and he Waxed Floors and Tended Bar at Kennedys Country Club. Money was good and I got hand me downs. In the Winter my Blue Jeans where Lined, and I had Lug Shoes and a real Warm Jacket. My father became a L.A. County Social Worker in later life and helped to start a Union.

I became interested in BYU when they started to hire Blacks to Play Basketball. I have always been a fan because BYU is a good clean uplifting school. I have always sought the best.

I think you meant that BYU, does not play all NCAA Sports. They pick and choose like everyone else. So no Nude Bowling oh well.

Cry Babies! | 10:42 a.m. May 11, 2009

I realize I am biased because I was a female college athlete; however, the author's overstatements are part of the issue. By stating that there are 4,000 some 'scholarships' for women in Division 1, the uneducated reader will likely assume that BAM - every scholarship is a full scholarship and the student-athlete has it made. This is not the case. In fact, very few sports are fully funded to the extent of fielding an entire team of full-ride athletes.
Also, important to note to the author, sand volleyball has yet to be named a full NCAA sport and will not have financial aid for several years - if ever. There is a process to this. As it is one of the very few sports that female athletes may further their careers in a professional rank, we should see this as opportunity rather than bash title xi.
So basically, quit crying about more opportunities for women in the NCAA - and how men are put at a disadvantage because of it or how it has adversely affected your scholarship abilities - did it occur to you that maybe you just weren't THAT good? :)

John | 5:23 p.m. May 13, 2009

I love how most proponents of Title IX are so quick to point out how X% of college football programs do not turn a profit. Well, according to figures given by the school to the Department of Education, Tennessee's women's basketball program, one of the top in the nation, ran in the red for roughly $100,000.00 for the 2007-2008 year. My question is this; how many women's sports turn a profit? How many women's sports ARE supported by big time football programs? Perhaps all throughout College, football programs are not the overall cash cows some make them out to be.....but I would bet there is a vastly higher percentage of men's sports that are self-sufficient than there are of women's programs.

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