Deseret News | Reader comments: Y. student researches effects of video games

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Y. student researches effects of video games

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BYU research... | 6:20 a.m. Jan. 23, 2009

another video game study with a bias conclusion. Most of the people I know who play a lot video games were never social butterflies. I disagree with the claim video games made them that way. Video games, especially violent ones, are a favorite target for conservative types. They start with the supposition that there's something wrong with them, and it's their duty to prove it.

Neeneko | 7:29 a.m. Jan. 23, 2009

I am really glad that this study gave a nod to the question 'is this cause or effect'. I know many people who turned to games because they are already in a poor life situation and are seeking to improve their life... in which case the gaming is a very positive response to a negative situation.

Anonymous | 7:41 a.m. Jan. 23, 2009

Sorry, to broad of a brush, in my opinion. I play games, violent ones mostly, and enjoy a very rich and happy social life, married life, and relationship with my family.
I've enjoyed playing online games with friends, and coworkers and I think I've better established relationships with some co-workers due to our mutual enjoyment of video games.
Just one's opinion.

Comments continue below

Jack Thompson | 7:47 a.m. Jan. 23, 2009

A "bias conclusion?" The researcher plays video games so much that his wife objects. If anything, the bias would have gone the other way.

I was recently in Utah for the purpose of preparing new legislation to make game retailers stop selling adult games to kids. This study could not have come at a better time, and in Utah no less!

Jack Thompson

rick | 8:00 a.m. Jan. 23, 2009

and ome more thing. Video game violoence and all that legislation is a target of liberals. Not conservatives.

Peter | 8:07 a.m. Jan. 23, 2009

Mr Thompson, once again you attempt to twist the facts to suit your own prejudiced agenda, this research was done on people at an average of 20 years old, draconian legislation would have had no impact on these people whatsoever.

Also, I have great suspicions about the accuracy of this research, go to socially deprived areas, where drug taking is rife, and ask them whether it's Video Games or social/peer pressure that pushes them to drugs, and then compare the results, I think the authors of this research will be somewhat surprised.

Neeneko | 8:15 a.m. Jan. 23, 2009

@Peter

Since the study makes no claim of cause, I'm not sure that holds. I think a better thing to find out would be to ask drug users how they spend their time. I suspect that games (with all their fun sensory stuff) make a great activity while high and thus are a pass time of preference. Looking at the results that is how I read these numbers.

Now what that would mean is that playing games has no effect on drug use.

While this research can probably be twisted by the anti-game lobby, the actual research that was done seems pretty neutral.

glad | 8:23 a.m. Jan. 23, 2009

Glad someone spends money and time on studying the effects of video games on adolescence. As a mother and counselor I could have told you that without taking up much of your time or money. Just $65/hour.

Recovering WOW addict | 8:25 a.m. Jan. 23, 2009

I've always had a bad relationship with my parents. for me games like WOW and Final Fantasy were ways that I could forget about my crappy life and just for a moment enjoy myself. Now that I have a better relationship with my family I play for fun, but that doesn't change the fact that games "can" be addicting. In my opinion, it's very similar to sports addicts (except that playing sports is more healthy).

Before I started playing world of warcraft I was warned by several friends that it was a major part in the down fall of their marriage. I've played for the past two years and I've found that those who play daily usually end up with or already have failing relationships and the worse those relationships get the more they play.

When it all comes down to it I think that video games are a fun past time, but must be handled like alcohol, responsibly. Anyone play on Deathwing? Iï¿½ll be on ALL weekend.

Jim42 | 8:27 a.m. Jan. 23, 2009

Just another study that provides fodder to the sheep on both sides of the fence to argue over, instead of providing any conclusive facts for any type of prudent action or decision.

Peter | 8:29 a.m. Jan. 23, 2009

@Neenko, possibly, but I'm still highly dubious about what the research implies, and how it could be twisted by fanatics such as Thompson, it's like the findings about 'self esteem', are we really surprised that gamers suffer from esteem problems with the kind of attitude that much of society adopts towards them, they have become the latest scape-goat in a long line of scapegoats, back to the days where Rock'n'Roll promoted Violence and Elvis' gyrating hips promoted promiscuity, people can't even argue that it's the interactive element, since dancing is, if anything, more interactive than Video Games.

Even now, in other quarters, there is 'research' linking rock music with promiscuity, if censors had their way, children would grow up in sensory deprivation tanks. Personally, I'm sick of all this finger-pointing, as though turning a switch off will solve all of societies problems, it's a cheap get-out clause that too many people are trying to twist for the sake of their own personal agenda and it needs to be stopped.

Brandi | 8:33 a.m. Jan. 23, 2009

A study that involved only 813 college students around the nation? What a narrow sampling of subjects. Anything that takes too much of your attention can negatively affect your friend and family relationships. Video games are simply the subject du jour of this generation. I've been a gamer for most of my 35 years, and yes, I enjoy it greatly, but I find it much harder to stop reading a good book rather than stop playing a good video game. It's all subjective. Every generation is going to have something that takes up their attention to the exclusion of all other people. I could make the same argument about workaholics or artists; therefore, I find nothing conclusive about this study.

Not enough info | 8:34 a.m. Jan. 23, 2009

The article is quick and easy journalism. Take a conclusion, throw out a headline and never give us any real info about the study. How were social interactions measured? How were social interaction pre and post video game use measured? How did he find the test subjects? Stats? Results? Survey or observational? More info please!

Anon | 8:58 a.m. Jan. 23, 2009

It may not be that games cause the bad relationships. Asperger's and other autism spectrum sufferers cannot form or maintain relationships easily (or at all) and gravitate towards games as a surrogate for that essential human connection which they want but cannot have.

Neeneko | 9:11 a.m. Jan. 23, 2009

@glad

This study did not cover adolescents. Your response also makes me question your abilities as a counselor. Having seen the shallow understanding of psychology adolescent counselors often have, this does not surprise me.

@Peter

*nod* the issue of how this research will be interpreted and twisted by those who wish to cast blame on games for societies ills is another thing. In cases like this I try to remember who to view poorly and this time I think the researches did a good neutral job, even if the results are easily twisted.

Mother of sons | 9:27 a.m. Jan. 23, 2009

I've seen my previously social child become very non-social as he has become addicted to on-line gaming. On one level while he was in college I appreciated that he spent more time gaming than paryting/drinking. But, now, having graduated from college he seems stuck in a rut, not moving forward in his life. I understand gaming makes him feel very competent and boosts his self-esteem while he is playing, but outside of the game it seems to me it has the opposite affect. There needs to be more studies and media/public discussion of this issue.

Conservative Violence | 9:30 a.m. Jan. 23, 2009

"and ome more thing. Video game violoence and all that legislation is a target of liberals. Not conservatives."

No, it pretty much is almost entirely conservatives that are responsible for the legislation. I know you live in a world where everything bad has to be the fault of liberals, but, well, you're wrong.

Nice try though.

Madden | 9:34 a.m. Jan. 23, 2009

I see no bias in the study, though it is impossible to say video games CAUSE any of the ill effects. The study was not an experiment, but was observational only. We can never really know whether people who get hooked on games would have had social issues anyway (or possibly turned to other vices worse than gaming).

However an 813 sample size is more than sufficient.

-Matt the Statistician

Hatuletoh | 9:42 a.m. Jan. 23, 2009

We did something similar for a communications study a few years ago. We came up with the same basic results, but the failing of our study (and probably this one) was the old "chicken and the egg" causality issue. We didn't set the thing up with enough controls to decide whether video games hurt interpersonal relationships, or people with low interpersonal aptitudes are more likely to play video games. For example, people--especially girls--likely to be described as "popular" and "attractive" rarely played video games. But of course this is just intuitive: when was the last time you saw a bunch of hot girls hanging out with their girl buddies in their parents' basement, eating pizza and getting all worked up over Madden football? Maybe video games are just the favored passtime of the socially awkward? Kind of like Dungeons and Dragaons used to be?

Emily Jo | 9:50 a.m. Jan. 23, 2009

Ha ha...no offense, but I laugh at those who get defensive when they hear actual results of statistics such as this. Accept it and move on. The results of this study will not change. I think we all deep down inside (if you will admit it, or NOT) know that nothing truly ever comes of video games anyhow. Just think about it. Wasted time. A cheap escape when better, more enriching and wholesome activities can take place instead.

Peter | 10:09 a.m. Jan. 23, 2009

@Emily Joe:

Such as Drinking, or Bowling or Fishing?

Just because you yourself do not approve of something does not automatically make it a bad thing, I'm not a big fan of Video Games either to be honest, but that doesn't mean I can't respect the people who choose to use it as a past-time just like any other past-time. I am sure there were people who told Rembrandt that Painting was a pointless pastime, or told Beethoven that sitting indoors composing Music was a waste of time and that he should be doing something more 'wholesome' with his life.

Judging people by our own standards and opinions is one of the most restricting and selfish things we can do, yet people seem incredibly eager to do it.

As mentioned earlier, does that still mean that the studies that found Elvis promoted promiscuity in teens are valid, and that we should, therefore, put restrictions on who is 'capable' of listening to them?

Of course the results of studies change with time, that's what science is all about.

Sally Sue | 10:15 a.m. Jan. 23, 2009

This is the first time I have added a comment on any
subject. It seems that the point of the study was to see what effect video games had on 813 students. The conclusion was that games have a negative affect on relationships. The same could be said for TV and movies.

Is it just one more thing to study. In my opinion any type of medium whether it be music, the spoken word, or video, if it puts out negative information then that is what the brain will take in and one will naturally react to it negatively.

Next time you watch or listen to something negative listen to the self-talk that goes on after. The brain will let you know how it feels about what has just been viewed. It is a universal law.

E. Zachary Knight | 10:19 a.m. Jan. 23, 2009

Emily,

You mean like watching tv or reading a book. Neither of those activities are any more social than playing a video game.

Aaron | 10:32 a.m. Jan. 23, 2009

The results in this study could just as well be applied to any recreational activity that demands one's full time and attention.
Perhaps it is the sedate nature of gaming that gives it such a bad wrap.
The question is, can a video gamer have healthy relationships with friends and family?
Of course they can! Some may have to cut back on their playing time, but why target the video game itself?
That's like blaming guns for killing people.
(maybe that's not the appropriate analogy in this case.)

statistics 101 | 10:39 a.m. Jan. 23, 2009

correlation is not causation

Bill Jenkins | 10:40 a.m. Jan. 23, 2009

I know many young people who have terrible relationships with their family and there isn't a video game system in the house. Well, there was a PS2 that was used to play DVD's but these people had no games. They also did not have cable TV and rarely watched the DVD player.

It is about how you make it work. And comparing it to cult-like mormon behavior that is designed to brainwash the youth is probably going to show video games to be terrible.

Video games are the devil. Right? Beat feet.

Sar Casam | 10:44 a.m. Jan. 23, 2009

Sure I can accept the results, video games and marajuana are related therefore video games cause drug use. Hey! Marajuana and munchies are related too, therefore Dorittos, cheetos and mini pizzas cause drug use!!!! I love the new scientific method.

Sortableturnip | 11:24 a.m. Jan. 23, 2009

Why were only unmarried people used in the study???

Duh | 1:32 p.m. Jan. 23, 2009

In my opinion, the effect of excessive video-game exposure is obvious. Society has come to accept that they and those around them are checked-out to the point that most people don't even think twice about playing violent video games. It's a sad thing and I feel bad for all of the previous commentators who find nothing wrong with violent video games or even non-violent games in excess.

JediToby | 1:49 p.m. Jan. 23, 2009

With all deference to the study, as has been noted, causation and correlation are different. My experience suggests that video games are an escape mechanism, symptomatic of a poor social environment. I would encourage another study to determine whether playing multiplayer games, with their artificially-created social environment helps players to adjust to real-world environments better than their peers playing solitary games, or no games at all. But that would require at least six groups, several years, and good deal of funding.

Amen to "Mother of Sons" | 2:41 p.m. Jan. 23, 2009

I've seen the exact same thing with my brother. I would never say this to him, but he is a loser. He hasn't gotten anywhere in his 33 years (except for beating games) I think he is FINALLY beginning to understand this, but he has already wasted so much time.

I know gamers love to defend their addiction, but the truth is they are missing out on real life because so much of their free time is WASTED on video games.

(Cue gamers to defend their addiction and try to convince us that "wonderful" things come from gaming.)

Anonymus | 3:12 p.m. Jan. 23, 2009

I'm so ashamed at everyone at the comments section It is stupid to play Video games 24 Hrs a day but you people (both non-gamers and gamers) are LOSERS, You people treat video games like the Civil war (I'm sorry to the author of this article) but I'm fed up with the video game war (Non gamers better grow up here your're acting like children)

Russell Carroll | 3:12 p.m. Jan. 23, 2009

I'm curious at how the defense "other things are just as bad" is a good defense. Doesn't that indicate an agreement of the problem.

Regardless I think of it in terms of influence. Some things are more positive influences than others. Influences do exactly that. They influence. They don't choose someone's actions, but they can impact what actions happen.

It's sad that video games haven't worked to make themselves a more positive influence. There are movies and books that influence people to do things that positively impact the world around them. Until the same is routinely said of video games, video games deserve additional scrutiny. How are they influencing society is a very valid question regardless of what it is aimed at.

...and when the influence is negative (like smoking for example) the public should be made aware of that fact.

I make video games for a living and I really think the industry needs to take a more serious look at the influence video games have instead of categorically dismissing it.

Vince | 3:40 p.m. Jan. 23, 2009

First, surveys are the least reliable of all research methods. I'll take quantitative analysis over qualitative any day of the week.

That people with low self-esteem, and poor relationships would be drawn to the escapism of video games is common sense, not brilliant scientific research. People who don't like their life are more likely to want to escape from it than those who are already happy.

Chicken and the egg my friends.

And poor, poor Jack T...still tilting at windmills I see...

Anonymous | 4:04 p.m. Jan. 23, 2009

The same exact opinions here can be said about doing too much of anything excessively. This "researcher" (and I use that term lightly considering how narrow the study was) has an agenda, just like Jack Thompson and all those others who criticized comic books, rock n roll, TV, and rap music. Stop giving these people attention.

Tarosan | 4:44 p.m. Jan. 23, 2009

If J.D Thompson uses this to his advantage, we all know it's doomed to fail.

Anonymous | 6:46 p.m. Jan. 23, 2009

@Amen 2:41pm

Why would I bother defending myself to you, you've already got us tagged and bagged as far as you are concerned, arguing my point with you would be like talking to a brick wall, and just as pointless.

If people want to debate the facts, fine, if people are going to regurgitate their own prejudices, one way or the other, then there's no point starting a dialogue, is there?

Though, I will point out that even clinics that are dedicated to gaming addiction are admitting that it is rarely gaming alone that is the problem, there are usually underlying social factors. Take a look at Keith Bakker, founder of the Video Game Addiction Clinic, and see what he has to say, I cannot post a link because of posting rules.

Ben | 7:15 p.m. Jan. 23, 2009

First of all Amen, lots of wonderful things can come from gaming.You seem to assume that because we play video games, were automatically wasting out time.However, many of us are capable of gaming in moderation and not succumb to addiction.

Grow up,and get your head out of your but.Video games give people entertainment and fond memories, in the exact same way that a book or a movie can. You need to get over your prejudice and realize that gamers are everywere, and can be just as successful as those who condemn our hobby.

Jamie A. | 8:24 p.m. Jan. 23, 2009

Although the topic of video games stimulates much debate (as seen through nearly every comment), the point is that this research supports previous evidence concerning the negative effects of video games. Those who have questions or criticisms are typically those who are uneducated as to the full research that has been performed. Don't be so quick to judge when you don't know all the details. The students and the teachers are both educated and extremely knowledgeable about this area of specialty. I know both the teacher and Alex, and this research took much time and effort from a college student. Why not praise someone for their accomplishments instead of being so critical? If you are so upset about the study, go work on your own research and prove us all wrong.

Anonymous | 9:41 p.m. Jan. 23, 2009

@Jamie A.
The studies linking "the negative effects of video games" are flimsy and limited at best; if you'd ever played something like DDR or Rock Band, you'd know that video games can be fun AND physically demanding, and with GTA and Gears of War, you'd know that games aren't just for kids anymore.

Anonymous | 6:03 a.m. Jan. 24, 2009

@Jamie A

1: Because Science that is not questioned is Dogma, as any scientist would know.

2: Because there is already research that disagrees with this result, it's just that censors choose to ignore it because it doesn't suit their agenda.

Peter | 6:23 a.m. Jan. 24, 2009

The funniest part is the fact that all these people shouting 'I told you so! Games are Evil!' obviously haven't read the report, which, all by itself states that a the numbers are in no way indicative of a Causal relationship, that's the researchers saying that, not the gamers. They also stated that the social impact was minimal.

Personally, I have my doubts about the 'self esteem' research, 10 questions is nowhere near enough for a proper psychometric evaluation, but then, seeing some of the assumptions made about Video Gamers, I wouldn't be all that surprised.

Whatever Works? | 8:38 a.m. Jan. 24, 2009

I really Disagree with the article that i watched on the news lastnight , I think if a kid wants to play Video Game that should be his right he dosen't need to have someone tell them that to do and what not to do Get with it,

Peter | 10:23 a.m. Jan. 24, 2009

Well, in all honesty, it is a parents job to tell their child what they can and cannot do, but I guess that is the whole crux of the matter, it is the *parents* job to do so, not the governments.

If legislation is introduced, it starts with Games, but where does it end? Music? TV? Books?

If parents don't like their children playing video games, it is their responsibility to put their foot down, if the 'child' is a 20 year old adult, then they have to make their own decisions, it's up to parents to teach them moderation when they are young.

Do any of the posters on here *really* want the Government to start to dictate to your children what is Right or Wrong? Do you want to hand that power over to them, because, if you do, you will never, ever get it back.

Hate Video Games if you like, but if you value your right to be a parent, fight Legislation every step of the way.

Agree or Disagree? | 10:49 a.m. Jan. 24, 2009

I am not disagreeing with the news but with the lady that they interviewed last night on the news from BYU, I really disagree with her Big time

Kiptin | 10:57 a.m. Jan. 24, 2009

813 College students is not a proper study size. 813 people of varied ethnic, social, economic, & age would be a proper study.

Anyone who lays the blame for the social ills of the world on any one topic (today video games, yesterday rap, before then rock music, before then cowboys & indians, before then not attending church, before then literacy...) is a fool.

How much time do people waste reading trashy novels, or non-educational materials? Watching TV? Bolwing? Fishing? Knitting? Not intervening to help loved ones who are addicted to something?

Water is good for us; so why does it kill us if we drink a lot of it? Because ANYTHING is bad for someone if one uses it too much.

This story fails to observe the benefits of what they are researching, it fails in being non-biased (the researcher began with the presumption that 'games are bad m'kay'), fails to investigate what the cause & effect is, & fails to study a broader audience to provide a proper result.

Also, BYU found physical disabilities makes married people happier in another study, easily found on their own December 2008 archives.

Yeah.

Anonymouse | 12:56 p.m. Jan. 24, 2009

Russell Carroll: I'm curious. You made a rather blanket statement about how sad it is that video games do not strive to become a more positive influence. What games from what genres have you played that gave you this opinion, or which studies did you read?

The Pew Internet & American Life Project in October of 2008 found "...that avid gamers are just as likely to be civically and socially active as occasional gamers." amongst 12-17 year olds.

"The study also found that certain types of video games can have a positive effect on a playerï¿½s participation in civic activities. Most kids who were civically or politically active played games that involved social, moral or ethical issues, or played games that involve helping others or forming groups."

Not all games involve blowing something up. Many are very inspirational in their story-telling and artistry. Many games too promote verbal communication skills, teamwork, critical-thinking, judgement, and strategy, mathematics, athleticism...the list could go well past the 200 word limit.

But like anything, games should be played in moderation, just like eating, drinking (non-alcoholic drinks included), or any other activity whether day-to-day or for recreation.

Agree | 5:29 p.m. Jan. 24, 2009

I wrote a report in college just about 4 years ago about video games and how they affect teenagers. I could only use scholarly peer review material and could not insert any of my own opinions. The peer review literature was quite similar to this article - that teenagers are less cooperative and harder to get to work, etc. when they have been playing video games. However, it affects some kids more than others. The teenagers who spend lots of time on video games (addicts) have lower grades in school and less social skills. The violence in the games contribute to a desensitization to other people's feelings and a violent psyche. In the games, they view themselves as the perpetrators of the violence. There was nothing in scholarly peer review material that had anything supportive or psoitive.

For those of you who don't know what scholarly peer review material is - it is research done largely by university professors that has been accepted by their peer community as accurate.

Anonymous | 6:19 p.m. Jan. 24, 2009

@Agree

4 Years is a long time in research, you may want to check over some of the more recent scholarly reviews on the subject, many of which disagree with elements of the original findings. Yes, 4 years ago Games were found to have many negative effects, however, nowadays, even the concept of Video Game addiction is somewhat debated, since Keith Bakker, founder of the Video Game Addiction Centre has stated that 90% of the people who were originally though to have Video Game addiction were usually sinking themselves into games in order to escape social and familial problems, and that the solution may lay more firmly with communication and interaction skills.

You may also be interested by work by people such as Bavilier and Green, Kutner and Olson and Professor Arthur Kramer all of whom state that there are definite beneficial effects to moderate and sensible Video Game playing.

Jason | 1:47 p.m. Jan. 26, 2009

The "bias" that is the problem here isn't that of the researchers themselves but their methods. Anybody who has studied econometrics/statistics in the most basic sense knows what an omitted variables bias is. I would love to know how the researchers determined causation in the sense that increased video game playing causes a bad relationship. How did they determine it wasn't that a bad relationship that causes undergraduates to play more video games. What they are not including in the model (study) is most certainly correlated with what is included and therefore causes any conclusions to be biased (useless).

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