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Some BYU fans at crossroads after 3-loss season
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This | 3:25 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
Garrick guy from the article is an idiot!. Utah is fast becoming a football
state and has athletes that are just as talented as any other state. Utah and
BYU are perfect examples of the huge football power this state has. Though I am
BYU fan I root for all the teams from the state. Too bad Utah State isn't
too hot.
Re: Sick of Utah Fans | 3:26 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
Where are you from- Mars? Having lived back east and in another country, I know
that many people know where the U of U is and they know that it has an excellent
reputation for being a great school- both academically and in sports. Just
because your world is small doesn't mean that the U isn't respected in
other states and in other circles. I can say with some certainty that if our
situations were reversed, BYU and its fans would be making the same claims that
the U is claiming. (And yes, I am sure that people would still be bashing each
other right and left over this issue because BYU/Utah is a rivalry). We'll
see what happens next year. May the best team win!
Anonymous | 3:34 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
I hope fans from both schools realize that outside of the MWC no one respects
either school. They think of us like we think of Ball St. and Miami of Ohio.
I'm sure right now Utah has their respect because of their recent BCS wins.
But that will disappear after one season outside the top 20.
I laugh when BYU fans think they are a national power because of their 1984 title. No one remembers who won 5 years ago, let alone 20+. That's like the Army program claiming their a national power because of Glen Davis' success. I bet most football fans outside of Utah, and they can't be mormon, don't even know about 1984.
No one cares/respects the MWC.
BYU a national power. Please. Right up there with Syracuse.
I laugh when BYU fans think they are a national power because of their 1984 title. No one remembers who won 5 years ago, let alone 20+. That's like the Army program claiming their a national power because of Glen Davis' success. I bet most football fans outside of Utah, and they can't be mormon, don't even know about 1984.
No one cares/respects the MWC.
BYU a national power. Please. Right up there with Syracuse.
Comments continue below
"National following" | 3:46 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
Not outside of Utah County. Most byu fans I know couldn't name more than 2
starters on either the offense or the defense. They simply hope they win because
they feel it is their duty.
Utah has more knowledgable fans by far.
Utah has more knowledgable fans by far.
USCTrojanFan | 4:14 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
I congratulate Utah for their season and believe they're deserving of the
National Title. When the Utes beat Alabama and clinched an undefeated season,
the Oklahoma / Florida game became "just a game".
Now, as a Mormon I'm pretty surprised to see so many blatantly disregarding our faith over a game.
At the cost of sounding superior, I expect more from our brothers and sisters than I would from fans of a secular background. Let them talk trash - it means nothing other than the possession of a mind full of trash unable to control its tongue.
I don't live in Utah - never been there in fact, so I don't know what life is about for most. But I wouldn't think it's about complaining over a 10-3 season (look where that's taken Nebraska football) or refusing to acknowledge the accomplishments of your most hated rivals (love thy enemy).
As for U of Utah, I suspect your great school and football program is largely funded by the majority of taxpaying Mormon's who live in your state.
There is nothing wrong with competition in the interest of bringing out our best.
But is this your best?
Now, as a Mormon I'm pretty surprised to see so many blatantly disregarding our faith over a game.
At the cost of sounding superior, I expect more from our brothers and sisters than I would from fans of a secular background. Let them talk trash - it means nothing other than the possession of a mind full of trash unable to control its tongue.
I don't live in Utah - never been there in fact, so I don't know what life is about for most. But I wouldn't think it's about complaining over a 10-3 season (look where that's taken Nebraska football) or refusing to acknowledge the accomplishments of your most hated rivals (love thy enemy).
As for U of Utah, I suspect your great school and football program is largely funded by the majority of taxpaying Mormon's who live in your state.
There is nothing wrong with competition in the interest of bringing out our best.
But is this your best?
re: Arrongance | 4:21 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
"on behalf of BYU and MWC fans everywhere-Congratulations to a magnificent
once in a lifetime season."
Amazing how "once in a lifetime" has occured twice in 5 years.
Amazing how "once in a lifetime" has occured twice in 5 years.
UTES | 4:22 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
fOR ALL YOU byu fans claiming superiority in all athletics ask yourself whats
the next biggest sport in college. yeah thats basketball. where your tradition
cant touch ours. win once in the tournement and we will talk. football tradition
is equal. basketball we are was ahead. everything else abosutely no one cares
sorry zoobs
RE: Dutchman | 2:01 p.m. | 4:24 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
Uh, Dutchman--this from the Pac-10--it's been said several times that there
are NO plans to expand the conference right now. And much as the U has had some
recent success--and I personally loved the 'Bama win, too--what on earth
makes you think the Pac-10 would EVER beg the Utes or anyone else to join?
I'd suspect it's the other way around.
Furthermore, it seems you're judging mainly from the U/BYU/TCU recent success in football. What about the other sports? What would the U or ANY other MWC school add to the Pac-10 in terms of basketball? (The MWC isn't exactly known as a hoops power conference.) Baseball? Softball? Volleyball? Track and field?
The U has a superb women's gymnastics tradition, but in what other sports are they beating down everyone else's doors? Don't think in terms of just wins--think SHEER DOMINATION. That's what it'd take in MULTIPLE sports, including hoops, FOR SEVERAL YEARS to get the U into the Pac-10.
BYU, Utah, TCU, and the others are better off trying to build the MWC into a power conference. They actually have a much better chance of that than of EVER being admitted into the Pac-10. Case closed.
Furthermore, it seems you're judging mainly from the U/BYU/TCU recent success in football. What about the other sports? What would the U or ANY other MWC school add to the Pac-10 in terms of basketball? (The MWC isn't exactly known as a hoops power conference.) Baseball? Softball? Volleyball? Track and field?
The U has a superb women's gymnastics tradition, but in what other sports are they beating down everyone else's doors? Don't think in terms of just wins--think SHEER DOMINATION. That's what it'd take in MULTIPLE sports, including hoops, FOR SEVERAL YEARS to get the U into the Pac-10.
BYU, Utah, TCU, and the others are better off trying to build the MWC into a power conference. They actually have a much better chance of that than of EVER being admitted into the Pac-10. Case closed.
Honor Code | 4:30 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
Kudo's to Utah 2004 and 2008 were super, unforgetable years. But with all
due respect, the in-between seasons of 6, 5 and 4 losses were undistinguished.
This next year will tell a lot. They have an easy non-conference schedule, but will have a difficult MWC schedule because this is their rotation year to Ft Worth, Ft Collins, Las Vegas, and Provo. A much harder conference schedule than they had this year. They may also have a weaker team to face that schedule.
You could very well see 2009 Utah fans reacting like the BYU fans did this year. The bar was raised very high for BYU and a 10-3 season, a delight for some teams, was unacceptable. Utah's bar will be even higher. Yet, they could also have a 10-3 season next year. Time will tell.
Remember that in 2006 and 2007 many Utah fans wanted a head, usually Ludwig's but sometimes Whittingham's. After Harline is still open and 4th and 18, the outcry was ugly. That is all forgotten now. 13-0 seasons do that.
One thing you can bank on though, is that in all their advertising Utah will use the AP poll not the USA Today/ESPN poll.
This next year will tell a lot. They have an easy non-conference schedule, but will have a difficult MWC schedule because this is their rotation year to Ft Worth, Ft Collins, Las Vegas, and Provo. A much harder conference schedule than they had this year. They may also have a weaker team to face that schedule.
You could very well see 2009 Utah fans reacting like the BYU fans did this year. The bar was raised very high for BYU and a 10-3 season, a delight for some teams, was unacceptable. Utah's bar will be even higher. Yet, they could also have a 10-3 season next year. Time will tell.
Remember that in 2006 and 2007 many Utah fans wanted a head, usually Ludwig's but sometimes Whittingham's. After Harline is still open and 4th and 18, the outcry was ugly. That is all forgotten now. 13-0 seasons do that.
One thing you can bank on though, is that in all their advertising Utah will use the AP poll not the USA Today/ESPN poll.
TheHailstorm | 4:33 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
Supporters of BYU that live vicariously through their foot ball team they may
want to win more than two bowl games in a row.. like the 8 that Utah has done.
This Banty rooster chest thumping from the Cougars is getting real lame.
84 was 29 years ago , older than some of the dads that write here. Face reality boys and girls BYU was overrated early and then proceeded to prove the assumption correct. Have you noticed how many recruits are jumping on the Utah band wagon , and Bronco ? at the depot steps with his hat in his hand planning group that had been ranked # 1 another fireside hope that group prayer will bring about another miracle, last second victory.
CLEARLY FOR THOSE OF US DEALING IN THE REAL WORLD TODAY UTAH IS THE BETTER TEAM AND REAP THE BENEFITS IN RECRUITING.
Cry all you want about would , should, and could of but facts are facts, Utah went undefeated and beat up on a tough Alabama group in front of a national audience while BYU gave a black eye to the conference by losing handily to a non-ranked Arizona team.
84 was 29 years ago , older than some of the dads that write here. Face reality boys and girls BYU was overrated early and then proceeded to prove the assumption correct. Have you noticed how many recruits are jumping on the Utah band wagon , and Bronco ? at the depot steps with his hat in his hand planning group that had been ranked # 1 another fireside hope that group prayer will bring about another miracle, last second victory.
CLEARLY FOR THOSE OF US DEALING IN THE REAL WORLD TODAY UTAH IS THE BETTER TEAM AND REAP THE BENEFITS IN RECRUITING.
Cry all you want about would , should, and could of but facts are facts, Utah went undefeated and beat up on a tough Alabama group in front of a national audience while BYU gave a black eye to the conference by losing handily to a non-ranked Arizona team.
Dick Harmon | 4:41 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
To the person who wrote: Buy a dictionary and commented about
"apologist." I did not write that word in my column. It was
substituted for another word I used to describe extreme fans at BYU. An editor
replaced my word for that one, which does not correctly represent the point I
was trying to address. Wish I'd been consulted. Thanks for reading the
Deseret News.
re: Re Arrongance | 4:49 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
(btw Arrogance has only one "N" not two).
Yes sir friend, 2008 is indeed a "once in a lifetime" season. 2004 was certainly a great season with arguably a better team, but did not include one win over a ranked team.
2008, on the other hand, included victories over 4 ranked teams (two of them top ten caliber) and 6 bowl teams. A magnificent season for the ages.
And as soon as the Utes are able to put up two consecutive ten-win seasons-that too will be a once in a lifetime occasion.
Even as a devoted BYU fan, I truly hope that both Utah and BYU programs become perennial Top Ten powerhouses. No doubt the foundation has been laid.
Yes sir friend, 2008 is indeed a "once in a lifetime" season. 2004 was certainly a great season with arguably a better team, but did not include one win over a ranked team.
2008, on the other hand, included victories over 4 ranked teams (two of them top ten caliber) and 6 bowl teams. A magnificent season for the ages.
And as soon as the Utes are able to put up two consecutive ten-win seasons-that too will be a once in a lifetime occasion.
Even as a devoted BYU fan, I truly hope that both Utah and BYU programs become perennial Top Ten powerhouses. No doubt the foundation has been laid.
re: re: Irony | 4:51 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
I have many good friends who are BYU fans, and have a healthy respect for BYU
and its athletics. I do not hate BYU, and never have. I made my comment
because some BYU fans comments on this and other boards are so over-reaching
that it makes me as angry as my comment obviously made you.
My main point was that mutual respect is okay, and even beneficial. In the heat of the moment, I was guilty of hyperbole in making the point (the same thing that disturbs me).
I agree with the comments that success at both schools is good for both schools and the state.
My main point was that mutual respect is okay, and even beneficial. In the heat of the moment, I was guilty of hyperbole in making the point (the same thing that disturbs me).
I agree with the comments that success at both schools is good for both schools and the state.
RE: MizzouBlue | 3:12 p.m. | 4:53 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
Watch out, MizzouBlue, you're actually talking sense! That's when they
come after you. I'm afraid good sense is not tolerated on this board or in
this rivalry. This Us vs. Them crapola has a good number of "BYU fans"
acting just like Utah fans.
I'd love to see the two teams cheering for each other when they don't play, and I'd love to see fans of the two schools actually act their age instead of all this "neener-neener" garbage. But class and decency is a sad casualty of this rivalry. Fans of both schools now think ripping on the other team is the same as cheering for their own side.
As a BYU graduate, it makes me sick. The BYU I attended taught me that respecting your opponent was a key part of playing the game, that taunting and trash-talk was unacceptable, that ripping on your own coaches and players was counterproductive (though TRUE constructive criticism has its place), and that human decency and sportsmanship were even more important than winning the game.
I wonder what they teach at BYU now? Either not the same stuff, or modern "BYU fans" just don't care.
I'd love to see the two teams cheering for each other when they don't play, and I'd love to see fans of the two schools actually act their age instead of all this "neener-neener" garbage. But class and decency is a sad casualty of this rivalry. Fans of both schools now think ripping on the other team is the same as cheering for their own side.
As a BYU graduate, it makes me sick. The BYU I attended taught me that respecting your opponent was a key part of playing the game, that taunting and trash-talk was unacceptable, that ripping on your own coaches and players was counterproductive (though TRUE constructive criticism has its place), and that human decency and sportsmanship were even more important than winning the game.
I wonder what they teach at BYU now? Either not the same stuff, or modern "BYU fans" just don't care.
Utah is Top Dog | 4:56 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
Cougars are cats.
FinalWordUte | 5:10 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
Just like BYU fans at games, (there were more Mormons persecuted at Sam Boyd
stadium by conspiring officials in Las Vegas on Dec. 23rd 2008 than in all of
Missouri and Illinios combined in the 1800's but I digress), the BYU homers
have lost touch with reality....since 2000 BYU is 68 and 39 with 3 bowl losses
and 2 bowl wins. Utah is 69 - 33 with 8 straight bowl wins longest current
streak in the country. Utah has won more games (while playing fewer), has a
higher winning percentage and has faired far better in bowl games. Utah has
broken the BCS twice and finished in the top 10 twice. The nine years of 2000 -
2008 accounts for two complete recruiting cycles and allows for 7 missionary
cycles. In that time Utah has placed more total players in the NFL, more
impactfull players in the NFL, and has had more all-americans.
Byu holds the head to head advantage, and has recruited more slow defensive backs than any school in the MWC, so they have those two things going for them. BYU fans, the facts are indesputable Utah is the new MWC Kingpin.
Byu holds the head to head advantage, and has recruited more slow defensive backs than any school in the MWC, so they have those two things going for them. BYU fans, the facts are indesputable Utah is the new MWC Kingpin.
Tarheel Ute | 5:22 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
No-doubt it's BYU and Notre Dame's football tradition that is known
and respected, not their respective team prowess on the field. And I suspect
the next year MWC teams may only be worried about Utah's defense as
BYU's offense period, not their teams as whole, and that clouded with the
defections of Collie, Kruger and Smith. Both will be good, but no opposing team
is shaking in their boots - yet.
I heard that TCU put BYU on their tackling dummies, probably because the reigning champ was BYU. By itself hardly a comprehensive endorsement and to no good. This next year - I doubt TCU will make the same mistake twice - with Utah or BYU.
Living in Colorado, large with Nebraska fans, most don�t care one way about Utah or BYU. And no one is looking hard at BYU or Utah, assured in their dominance, for any number of good or bad reasons � take your pick.
Next year cannot come soon enough, but this year is Utahs.
But after reading this article and the insuing ill-natured Utah and BYU blog-base, both could use some humble pie.
I heard that TCU put BYU on their tackling dummies, probably because the reigning champ was BYU. By itself hardly a comprehensive endorsement and to no good. This next year - I doubt TCU will make the same mistake twice - with Utah or BYU.
Living in Colorado, large with Nebraska fans, most don�t care one way about Utah or BYU. And no one is looking hard at BYU or Utah, assured in their dominance, for any number of good or bad reasons � take your pick.
Next year cannot come soon enough, but this year is Utahs.
But after reading this article and the insuing ill-natured Utah and BYU blog-base, both could use some humble pie.
Byu is better... | 5:20 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
(At least their band).
Observer | 5:47 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
Why is Utah's success dependent on putting BYU down?
Why can't Utah enjoy thier success without mentioning BYU?
Why can't Utah enjoy thier success without mentioning BYU?
TED | 6:28 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
WE ALL LIVE IN THE SAME NUT SHELL SO TO SPEAK. WHY CAN'T WE SUPPORT ONE
ANOTHER? OUR BACKS ARE AGAINST THE WALL ANYWAY WITH THIS BCS SITUATION. GO UTES!
GO COUGARS! GO TO THIS LITTLE PIECE OF THE USA CALLED THE STATE OF UTAH!!!
California Utah grad | 6:26 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
Utah is basically a commuter school for young people living in SLC area who live
at home and drive to the campus. Many go away graduate schools in other parts
of the country and then "God" leads them back to SLC. There they have
children and the story repeats itself. Good for Utah winning the Sugar Bowl.
BYU and Utah fans alike should be proud of Utah.
Re: Dutchman | 9:06 a.m. | 6:44 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
I'm bringing this one forward, it's worth another look...
"A comment was made in the article to the effect that BYU is stronger academically than Utah...BYU has fewer graduate programs, no medical school, and probably half the research facilities when compared to Utah. Plus, a member of the Utah faculty recently won the Nobel Prize for medicine. I believe BYU is a fine academic institution but superior to Utah? Show me."
I have worked with many (I mean MANY) BYU grads as peers and as direct reports to me. Without exception, like BYU fans, they talk a good fight but not one has ever made a contribution I have learned from. BYU Superior? NO WAY!!
The University of Utah is by far the superior institution. Utah proves it by research, publications, medical and scientific breakthroughs, and by putting well prepared students in the work place. In short, Utah proves it on the field.
BYU people prove it by running their mouths at church and the BYU populace buys into the non-sense.
As stated above, the onus to prove it is on you, Mr. BYU. Show Me.
"A comment was made in the article to the effect that BYU is stronger academically than Utah...BYU has fewer graduate programs, no medical school, and probably half the research facilities when compared to Utah. Plus, a member of the Utah faculty recently won the Nobel Prize for medicine. I believe BYU is a fine academic institution but superior to Utah? Show me."
I have worked with many (I mean MANY) BYU grads as peers and as direct reports to me. Without exception, like BYU fans, they talk a good fight but not one has ever made a contribution I have learned from. BYU Superior? NO WAY!!
The University of Utah is by far the superior institution. Utah proves it by research, publications, medical and scientific breakthroughs, and by putting well prepared students in the work place. In short, Utah proves it on the field.
BYU people prove it by running their mouths at church and the BYU populace buys into the non-sense.
As stated above, the onus to prove it is on you, Mr. BYU. Show Me.
Re:Re: Just the facts | 10:36 a. | 6:52 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
This isn't much of an argument. Take the "marriage and family
life" related majors out of BYU and you are not left with much. Health
Sciences at BYU are a literal joke.
Here is one area where BYU totally excels...the graduation rate of women is 50%. Why would any female sincerely desiring an education go to a school where the odds of her graduating are decidedly against her?
Answer: one who would rather get married than earn a degree!
Here is one area where BYU totally excels...the graduation rate of women is 50%. Why would any female sincerely desiring an education go to a school where the odds of her graduating are decidedly against her?
Answer: one who would rather get married than earn a degree!
desperate | 6:52 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
How come no article was written like this for the past two years? One good
season doesn't put you on top. Sorry. As long as U fans keep trashed Y fans
AFTER a great year, they will always be the inferior little bro. Hey Harmon,
newsflash, U fans pose as Y fans and write negative blogs. Do better research.
If Utah is on top why were they last year calling for Whits head. Fickle group that is blown around by hot air.
If Utah is on top why were they last year calling for Whits head. Fickle group that is blown around by hot air.
Anonymous | 6:59 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
There's no crossroads. The way U fans have acted after having a big season,
it's become obvious they are obsessed with BYU. It's not enough to win
the sugar bowl, they still go home and fixate on the Y. The ONLY thing they are
doing is driving fans into the Y not attracting fans to the U.
Great blog re:advantage utes- "They [utah] don't have an honor code." That's true and becoming more apparent year after year. Thanks for smuggling all the beer into the stadium, who cares, after all you don't have an honor code. Well said. Advantage BYU!
Great blog re:advantage utes- "They [utah] don't have an honor code." That's true and becoming more apparent year after year. Thanks for smuggling all the beer into the stadium, who cares, after all you don't have an honor code. Well said. Advantage BYU!
My USC Trojans #3 | 7:08 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
Congratulations Utah!!! I liked my USC Trojans win over Penn St, but after
watching the Sugar Bowl game and the Utah Utes DESTROY Alabama, I was shocked
and VERY impressed with the DOMINATING win. Utah didn't go undefeated for
no reason in '04 and '08. I could careless about the other BCS games
including my Trojans win at the Rose Bowl over Penn St. You proved it, end of
story! I like do see a "2-time" underdog program crash the BCS party
again and make those sports writers and NCAA football presidents eat crow
again!!! Utah and Boise St belong AMONGST the college football elite! May not
go undefeated every year, but definitely belong with MY Trojans, Florida,
Oklahoma, Alabama, LSU, and Texas. I would love to see a Utah-USC match up,
sorry I'll be routing for my Trojans but Utah has MY RESPECT!!! Congrats
13-0 Utes! The original BCS Bulldogs/Party Crashers! Sense a lot of anamosity
here, can't we all just get along!?!?! I grew up in Utah when I was little
and moved before the 5th grade back to Cali. There are some serious hostilities
here...
Steve | 7:26 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
I've said it before and I'll say it again. BYU should be able to beat
Utah except for the coaching. They're too soft on defense and too
predictable on offense.
With all their talent they can beat Utah if they play more agressively!
With all their talent they can beat Utah if they play more agressively!
too many lies | 7:40 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
BYUs academics might not be better, but the admission requirements are certainly
higher. That tells me the students should be better. At least they performed
better in high school.
Also BYU has a higher percentage of graduates going on to graduate school than any other school in the nation.
Another interesting fact is that BYU's students, outside of ivy league schools, have the highest percentage of parents who make more than $100,000 a year. (which probably explains why so many are stuck up and think the world revolves around them)
Oh and Utes please stop talking about your "great" basketball program. You make fun of us for talking about our past success in football but as far as i'm concerned you talking about how great your basketball program is far more embarrasing. At least our football program can sill win conference championships!
Also BYU has a higher percentage of graduates going on to graduate school than any other school in the nation.
Another interesting fact is that BYU's students, outside of ivy league schools, have the highest percentage of parents who make more than $100,000 a year. (which probably explains why so many are stuck up and think the world revolves around them)
Oh and Utes please stop talking about your "great" basketball program. You make fun of us for talking about our past success in football but as far as i'm concerned you talking about how great your basketball program is far more embarrasing. At least our football program can sill win conference championships!
Pee Wee | 7:46 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
Glen has a good suggestion. Utah's success offers BYU has a wonderful
opportunity to demonstate sportsmanship and class.
When BYU had its undefeated season in 1984 the University of Utah took out a full page ad in the newspaper congratulating them on their accomplishment. (It's a fact)
Do you think BYU as an institution will have the class to publicly congratulate their rival's success and accomplishment?
I doubt it.
When BYU had its undefeated season in 1984 the University of Utah took out a full page ad in the newspaper congratulating them on their accomplishment. (It's a fact)
Do you think BYU as an institution will have the class to publicly congratulate their rival's success and accomplishment?
I doubt it.
CBT | 7:49 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
During the Bronco-Whit era, BYU and Utah sit 2-2 against each other. BYU is 2-2
against TCU as well. Utah is 3-1 vs. TCU. n the last 5 years, BYU has 2
outright Conference titles, Utah has 2 and TCU has 1 and the team that won
conference ran the table.
To be honest, I am not seeing whole lot of daylight between the teams over the last 5 years. All 3 are pretty equal in many regards, especially wins/losses. The sole difference has been that in Utah's 2 great years, they ran the table and hit BCS gold. I wish BYU had done it, but they could not. So props to Utah for making the most out of your 2 great years. But really, the teams are very competitive are both are excelling, which makes this rivalry even better. The game is always better when 2 10 win+ teams square off than when 1 or both teams stink.
To be honest, I am not seeing whole lot of daylight between the teams over the last 5 years. All 3 are pretty equal in many regards, especially wins/losses. The sole difference has been that in Utah's 2 great years, they ran the table and hit BCS gold. I wish BYU had done it, but they could not. So props to Utah for making the most out of your 2 great years. But really, the teams are very competitive are both are excelling, which makes this rivalry even better. The game is always better when 2 10 win+ teams square off than when 1 or both teams stink.
johny lingo | 7:55 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
I'm an obsessed BYU fan but felt like cheering "for a utah fan am I,
Go Utes" during the sugar bowl. GO BYU. Utah bring in more money yahoo.
BYU has always lacked recruting defense and that is why they have not gone to
the BCS.
Hey Rober Garrick.... | 8:01 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
Over the past 5, 10, and 15 years Utah has a 60% winning percentage over BYU in
football.
Utah has four victories over ranked teams this year alone. BYU has one victory over ranked teams in the last 25 tries. Utah is the undisputed BCS buster with an indefeated record in BCS bowls. BYU has yet qualify for a single BCS invitation.
Utah has been the national MWC flagship for football since the inception of the conference.
Facts are facts, Robert and they just don't support your perceptions or your delusions.
Utah has four victories over ranked teams this year alone. BYU has one victory over ranked teams in the last 25 tries. Utah is the undisputed BCS buster with an indefeated record in BCS bowls. BYU has yet qualify for a single BCS invitation.
Utah has been the national MWC flagship for football since the inception of the conference.
Facts are facts, Robert and they just don't support your perceptions or your delusions.
order of teams... | 8:22 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
1. Utah
2.Utah State
3.WSU
4.SUU
5.Snow CC
6.Dixie CC
7.SLCC
9.Alta H.S
10.BYU
Hey cougar lovers!...on a national stage, yes! Its not for your football program or Byu atheletics for that matter!...its for "the church" that's it!...the only thing they mention about BYU football is how much older their players are to the rest of the country.
2.Utah State
3.WSU
4.SUU
5.Snow CC
6.Dixie CC
7.SLCC
9.Alta H.S
10.BYU
Hey cougar lovers!...on a national stage, yes! Its not for your football program or Byu atheletics for that matter!...its for "the church" that's it!...the only thing they mention about BYU football is how much older their players are to the rest of the country.
So, Cougar fans.... | 8:25 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
If BYU has a better fan base, recruiting base, facilities and more money, why do
the Cougs only have a 40% winning record against Utah for the last 5, 10, and 15
years?
Charlie | 8:23 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
Goodness...
We just heard how much better Alabama is because of history from the 70s and such. Didn�t count for much, did it? It is like someone from Egypt claiming that they were once the greatest nation on earth. Got it. Both are not relevant if you live in the here and now and I suggest some Y fans get a hold on the brutal facts of their current reality.
As a suggestion, big wins, big seasons lose about 5% per year so as to allow you to compare events from different years. Sadly, the Ute final four experience is now 50% gone. 1984 has fallen off the radar going the way of the Utah final fours in the 1040s.
Conference championships only mean something locally. Believe me, out of state, talking to a nationally ranked teams fan base, MWC championships don�t even get noticed. Beating ranked teams in big games is what it is all about.
Now, when did each of these two teams notch wins against ranked teams? You just answered Dick�s question.
We just heard how much better Alabama is because of history from the 70s and such. Didn�t count for much, did it? It is like someone from Egypt claiming that they were once the greatest nation on earth. Got it. Both are not relevant if you live in the here and now and I suggest some Y fans get a hold on the brutal facts of their current reality.
As a suggestion, big wins, big seasons lose about 5% per year so as to allow you to compare events from different years. Sadly, the Ute final four experience is now 50% gone. 1984 has fallen off the radar going the way of the Utah final fours in the 1040s.
Conference championships only mean something locally. Believe me, out of state, talking to a nationally ranked teams fan base, MWC championships don�t even get noticed. Beating ranked teams in big games is what it is all about.
Now, when did each of these two teams notch wins against ranked teams? You just answered Dick�s question.
Re: Too Many Lies | 8:29 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
Utah won two NCAA basketball tournament games in 2005.
BYU has accomplished that feat once in its history -- 18 years ago.
Utah last won a Final Four tournament game in 1998.
BYU is still seeking such a win, actually has been seeking any tournament win for more than 15 years.
Your point about why so many BYU students are "stuck up" is an interesting one, however.
BYU has accomplished that feat once in its history -- 18 years ago.
Utah last won a Final Four tournament game in 1998.
BYU is still seeking such a win, actually has been seeking any tournament win for more than 15 years.
Your point about why so many BYU students are "stuck up" is an interesting one, however.
Hey CBT,,, | 8:42 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
How can BYU fans realistically claim to be close to Utah and TCU in the MWC when
they aren't even the big dog in the state of Utah. The Utes have a 60%
winning percentage over BYU for the the past 5, 10, and 15 years.
On a national scale the Utes have achieved a level of success far greater than any other MWC team including BYU. Utah has, by far, delivered more money and prestige to the conference than any other team. Utah has done more to demonstrate the flaws of the BCS cartel than any other non-BCS team.
Utah is the big dog in the state, in the MWC, and among non-BCS teams, and it isn't even close.
On a national scale the Utes have achieved a level of success far greater than any other MWC team including BYU. Utah has, by far, delivered more money and prestige to the conference than any other team. Utah has done more to demonstrate the flaws of the BCS cartel than any other non-BCS team.
Utah is the big dog in the state, in the MWC, and among non-BCS teams, and it isn't even close.
Seattleview | 9:01 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
How small is the difference between average and greatness?
Utah is one field goal away from only being a conference champion playing in Vegas. BYU was there for two years in a row.
The most important difference is that Utah wins big games (including the one with BYU), and seems more interested in playing good football rather than talking about it and telling everyone what good people you are. That is what bothers people the most.
Mr Harmon, you are the chief instigator of BYU hype. Talk in terms of conference championships and leave the BCS and national championship retoric for when BYU has proven they have a winner.
Utah is one field goal away from only being a conference champion playing in Vegas. BYU was there for two years in a row.
The most important difference is that Utah wins big games (including the one with BYU), and seems more interested in playing good football rather than talking about it and telling everyone what good people you are. That is what bothers people the most.
Mr Harmon, you are the chief instigator of BYU hype. Talk in terms of conference championships and leave the BCS and national championship retoric for when BYU has proven they have a winner.
Hey Seattleview.... | 9:39 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
I agree that Cougars and fans talk a better game than they deliver.
However I disagree that Dick Harmon is an instigator of BYU hype. With the likes of Bronco Mendenhall and Austin Collie blathering on about their relevance in the world of college football, I don't think he needs to instigate as much as he simply reflects the dilusions of an irratonal athletic department and fanbase.
He doesn't have to instigate hype, he has just found a niche that he is well suited to, and an audience that isn't very well connected with reality.
However I disagree that Dick Harmon is an instigator of BYU hype. With the likes of Bronco Mendenhall and Austin Collie blathering on about their relevance in the world of college football, I don't think he needs to instigate as much as he simply reflects the dilusions of an irratonal athletic department and fanbase.
He doesn't have to instigate hype, he has just found a niche that he is well suited to, and an audience that isn't very well connected with reality.
Ute slogan for 2009..... | 9:42 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
... Living the quest since 2004 ...
TucsonUte | 10:06 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
It has been my experience that most BYU fans are pretty stand up people. All my
BYU friends in Tucson were pretty happy for the MWC and the Utes after the 13-0
season. For some reason the posting boards bring out the worst of fans from
both teams.
While I sometimes wonder if DH is throwing gas on the rivalry fire with some of his stories--he usually is worth the read. I am just happy both teams are a lot better than the late 90's.
Bronco Mendenhall knows how to push all the right buttons with the Y fans but this year seemed a bit cruel for them and most were let down. The 10-3 record appeared to be 6-6 with their attitudes after the Arizona loss. Whittingham never seems to overstate the Utes prospects each season.
While I sometimes wonder if DH is throwing gas on the rivalry fire with some of his stories--he usually is worth the read. I am just happy both teams are a lot better than the late 90's.
Bronco Mendenhall knows how to push all the right buttons with the Y fans but this year seemed a bit cruel for them and most were let down. The 10-3 record appeared to be 6-6 with their attitudes after the Arizona loss. Whittingham never seems to overstate the Utes prospects each season.
Andy | 10:12 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
I love it that Cougars are stressing over a 10-3 season. Only in Cougartown
could 10-3 be considered a disappointment.
Zoobs Just Envy the Utes | 10:26 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
Coug Dad:
"BYU will lick their wounds. 10-3 is good, but everyone involved in the program or with knowledge of the program knows BYU underperformed in the 3 games"
I beg to differ, BYU did NOT underpeform they were actually beaten by much better teams.
Plus BYUs defense was exposed, they stunk all year here's the proof:
1. Allowed 0-12 Washington to score 27 points 2nd most points scored by Huskies all season. They scored 28 against the powerhouse Standford.
2. Allowed 35 points at home against the powerful 5-7 UNLV at home.
3. Allowed 7-6 CSU to score 42 points.
4. Got ROLLED by the the only 2 ranked teams it played.
5. Lost once again in the Bowl game against the 5th... yes I said 5th team from the Pac-10.
Is BYU good, yes they are against weak teams... just like Ball State was this year.
"BYU will lick their wounds. 10-3 is good, but everyone involved in the program or with knowledge of the program knows BYU underperformed in the 3 games"
I beg to differ, BYU did NOT underpeform they were actually beaten by much better teams.
Plus BYUs defense was exposed, they stunk all year here's the proof:
1. Allowed 0-12 Washington to score 27 points 2nd most points scored by Huskies all season. They scored 28 against the powerhouse Standford.
2. Allowed 35 points at home against the powerful 5-7 UNLV at home.
3. Allowed 7-6 CSU to score 42 points.
4. Got ROLLED by the the only 2 ranked teams it played.
5. Lost once again in the Bowl game against the 5th... yes I said 5th team from the Pac-10.
Is BYU good, yes they are against weak teams... just like Ball State was this year.
Anonymous | 10:28 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
Thanks for your great article. You said what had to be said. Nothing needs to
be added.
Correcting Zoob Arrogance | 10:45 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
re: Re Arrongance | 4:49 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
"Yes sir friend, 2008 is indeed a "once in a lifetime" season. 2004 was certainly a great season with arguably a better team, but did not include one win over a ranked team."
Not quite true, Pitt was ranked #19. Plus, we wanted Auburn or OK plus much more impressive then 1984 season.
"And as soon as the Utes are able to put up two consecutive ten-win seasons-that too will be a once in a lifetime occasion."
Already happened genius: 2003 10-2 and 2004 12-0
But I guess it doesn't compare to BYUs lifetime occasion of winning bowl games: 9-17-1
"Yes sir friend, 2008 is indeed a "once in a lifetime" season. 2004 was certainly a great season with arguably a better team, but did not include one win over a ranked team."
Not quite true, Pitt was ranked #19. Plus, we wanted Auburn or OK plus much more impressive then 1984 season.
"And as soon as the Utes are able to put up two consecutive ten-win seasons-that too will be a once in a lifetime occasion."
Already happened genius: 2003 10-2 and 2004 12-0
But I guess it doesn't compare to BYUs lifetime occasion of winning bowl games: 9-17-1
BYU is the Ball State of MWC | 11:04 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
Despite their glossy 10 win records, the Cougars haven't shown that they
can beat the nation's best:
1-25 against ranked teams proves this fact
If wins against weak opponents is what makes a Quest for Perfection then Boise State is the better program; at least they beat a ranked team in a BCS game in the last 10 years.
1-25 against ranked teams proves this fact
If wins against weak opponents is what makes a Quest for Perfection then Boise State is the better program; at least they beat a ranked team in a BCS game in the last 10 years.
Rick | 11:19 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
I'm sorry Ute fans, but why was it that you turned down the offer to play
in the new Dallas Cowboy Stadium next year against a highly rated opponent?
Being the nation's newest rage and most respected team and so on and on and
on and on------
Hey Rick.... | 11:35 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
The Utes have nothing to prove. Already waxed a highly ranked team. Beat 4
ranked teams and 6 bowl teams.
Been there, done that.
Been there, done that.
LA | 11:36 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
BYU would have to go undefeated in 09 for this to happen, but they do have a
schedule with Oklahoma and Florida State that is strong enough to get them into
the National Championship Game. It they are able to sign Manti Teo and shore up
their defense, it is possible to get there. If they won the National
Chapionship in 09, who would you rather be, Utah with 2 BCS wins or BYU with 2
National Championships ?
Hey Coug Dad.... | 11:40 p.m. Jan. 13, 2009
"BYU underperformed" = BYU got beat.
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