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BYU falters late against Wake
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I was there | 12:51 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
Where were those refs from, out of curiosity? BYU lost that game Wake
didn't win it. When BYU went cold, they were ice cold and nothing would
drop! Fun game though.
Quest for Perfection | 4:40 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
"But despite their glossy 11-2 record, the Cougars haven't shown that
they can beat the nation's best."
Nothing new, the BYU basketball program is following in the footsteps of its football program: Beat up on lesser teams but can't beat ranked teams.
Nothing new, the BYU basketball program is following in the footsteps of its football program: Beat up on lesser teams but can't beat ranked teams.
Utah alum | 5:00 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
I went to the game. BYU got homered by the horrible officiating. Every time wf
drove to the hoop there was an automatic foul. As long as byu allows biased
officiating from the acc friendly officials and pac 10 officials to ref their
games, this is what the results will always be.
Comments continue below
byu vs big boys | 6:36 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
byu can beat up weak teams in football and basketball, but vs decent teams they
are impotent
Dixie Dan | 7:11 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
Not to worry as I hear Timpview HS has a very good basketball team this year.
nottyou | 7:19 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
I look forward to the Utah trolls again this basketball season. They certainly
prove the fact that one can function perfect well after a lobotomy. Good boy
Ute man, good boy! Now fetch�
Homered? | 7:24 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
I'm a big BYU fan but we did NOT lose the game on officiating. Please do
not blame this loss of that. Yes, there were some questionable calls but the
refs did not shoot 30% in the second half. BYU did. I have to agree with a
couple of posts earlier that state that BYU can't win in the clutch. This
is a perfect example of why we can't get out of the first round. We just
for some reason can't win the big ones. It was a great game but in the
end, it was no different that the A&M game in the first round last year. It
was similar to the Arizona State game. Until we can recruit players with ice in
their veins, we will continue to lose the big ones. Pretty sad.
We are good but no where near great. Wake Forest is the real deal as they showed, IN THE CLUTCH! BYU is not. We will continue to have good teams but I can't give myself the illusion that we are great.
I still love my Cougs. I still cheer for my Cougs. But we just can't win in the clutch. Bummer.
We are good but no where near great. Wake Forest is the real deal as they showed, IN THE CLUTCH! BYU is not. We will continue to have good teams but I can't give myself the illusion that we are great.
I still love my Cougs. I still cheer for my Cougs. But we just can't win in the clutch. Bummer.
Anonymous | 7:24 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
>>BYU lost that game Wake didn't win it.>>
Typical BYU arrogance. They never "get beat by a better team."
They only "beat themselves" or "were robbed."
This attitude, one that prevents any reflection or improvement, is why BYU will continue to underperform.
Typical BYU arrogance. They never "get beat by a better team."
They only "beat themselves" or "were robbed."
This attitude, one that prevents any reflection or improvement, is why BYU will continue to underperform.
Cougar | 7:25 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
The officials were from the Atlantic 10 Conference.
Quest Comment | 7:30 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
I'm tired of people ragging on the "Quest for Perfection" slogan.
Name me a team that doesn't want to win all of their games?
This is NOT shameful or embarrassing. By the way, the basketball team does not have this slogan so please don't insinuate it.
However, a team that does not look to win every game? What is wrong with that? I recall Bronco saying that it wasn't necessarily aimed an being undefeated anyway. He was looking for the players best effort on every play. Obviously that did not happen throughout the season, but is it wrong to try to do your best?
Go crying elsewhere. I'm glad our teams at BYU are trying to be the best they can be. Striving and being are obviously two different things. But you don't get to great if you don't try.
This is NOT shameful or embarrassing. By the way, the basketball team does not have this slogan so please don't insinuate it.
However, a team that does not look to win every game? What is wrong with that? I recall Bronco saying that it wasn't necessarily aimed an being undefeated anyway. He was looking for the players best effort on every play. Obviously that did not happen throughout the season, but is it wrong to try to do your best?
Go crying elsewhere. I'm glad our teams at BYU are trying to be the best they can be. Striving and being are obviously two different things. But you don't get to great if you don't try.
ACC fan | 7:42 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
BYU played well, and will earn a top 25 ranking sooner rather than later. Heck,
wouldn't be surprised to seem them make the list tomorrow!
Wake's problems (dubious court leadership, poor decision making and the lack of a 3-point threat) will doom them in the NCAAs, but they are a good basketball team and definitely worthy of a 10-15 ranking, so playing them down to the wire is not a trivial accomplishment!
Wake's problems (dubious court leadership, poor decision making and the lack of a 3-point threat) will doom them in the NCAAs, but they are a good basketball team and definitely worthy of a 10-15 ranking, so playing them down to the wire is not a trivial accomplishment!
marcos | 8:00 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
14 members of our family attended the game and were all
rewarded by a great basketball game. Wake is a really good team with talented players but so is BYU. The difference in the game was in the last 10 minutes BYU missed too many free throws and was a little too much in love with the 3 point shot. but i really like this BYU team.
They hustle, play good defence and have a good bench.
Good luck to coach Rose and go Cougars.
rewarded by a great basketball game. Wake is a really good team with talented players but so is BYU. The difference in the game was in the last 10 minutes BYU missed too many free throws and was a little too much in love with the 3 point shot. but i really like this BYU team.
They hustle, play good defence and have a good bench.
Good luck to coach Rose and go Cougars.
Pocatello Aggie | 8:02 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
Not sure why non-Byu fans jump on here and rip on the cougars. They are the
best team in the state and will kill the utes when they play. Will be
interesting to see if they can win one in the tourney.
Denvercougar | 8:05 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
Lee is very similar to Max Hall in that he doesn't show up in big games; in
fact, they both play horrible in big games. We all know what Hall did in the 3
biggest games last year vs. Utah, TCU and Arizona but Cummard is just as big of
a Prima donna as Hall. Cummard goes 6 for 20 tonight, 2 for 9 vs. USU, and 4 of
8 vs. ASU. If Rose would have put Cummard where he deserved to be, on the pine,
we would have won tonight. Cummard couldn't shoot yet he kept throwing it
up and he didn't play D at all. He was a complete no show tonight. Thanks
for the loss Cummard!
It is funny how the two guys who should be the big time players in big time games fold quicker than a cheap lawnchair when the pressure is on. They are both a disappointment.
I think the NBA scouts were 100% turned off by Cummard and he really hurt himself tonight. Cummard can you say Bball in Europe?
It is funny how the two guys who should be the big time players in big time games fold quicker than a cheap lawnchair when the pressure is on. They are both a disappointment.
I think the NBA scouts were 100% turned off by Cummard and he really hurt himself tonight. Cummard can you say Bball in Europe?
Southern Utah Cougar Fan | 8:09 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
If any of you who get on here and add comments or read them don't
understand the quickness factor that hurts the Cougars, you aren't really
watching the game. Against Wake Forest, BYU didn't have one advantage in
the "Q" matchup. You simply exhaust yourself trying to guard someone
who is much quicker, And when that happens, the legs go. And when that happens
the shooting percentage falls. Hmmmm...how did the Cougars shoot down the
stretch? How many free throws were missed down the stretch?
Hey, they gave all they had, but Cummard and Co. will not win any games like that because in the last few minutes the legs, the defense, the shooting percentage, and the ability to truly compete is gone. Considering how badly they matched up athletically, they played well.
Now, for you folks who are saying the refs lost that game last night for BYU, do you also give the refs credit when BYU wins? It goes both ways doesn't it? Hey, we have a nice team, a team that will do well in the MWC and then get beat out of the big one in the first round. That is our lot!
Hey, they gave all they had, but Cummard and Co. will not win any games like that because in the last few minutes the legs, the defense, the shooting percentage, and the ability to truly compete is gone. Considering how badly they matched up athletically, they played well.
Now, for you folks who are saying the refs lost that game last night for BYU, do you also give the refs credit when BYU wins? It goes both ways doesn't it? Hey, we have a nice team, a team that will do well in the MWC and then get beat out of the big one in the first round. That is our lot!
sob | 8:10 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
your quest notations imply you are the only ones who ever obtain it because you
are the only ones who ever try, the rest just satisfy with imperfection so
they are not "special" it is fine to desire for perfection, but not
beat your chest about it.
DennyG | 8:22 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
I wrote last week that this BYU team doesn't have the heart and soul to win
big games. Of course I was ground into the dirt by the heals of BYU supporters
everywhere. And once again, the team proved me right.
I look forward to the day when the "Y" plays something better than glorified "Church" ball.
The last time they played with some real grit was the Danny Ainge era. Because like him or not Ainge was a Player. Very hard for me to admit by the way.
This whole business of blaming the refs. Shessshhhhh. Get a life. I'm 56 years old, have watched thousands of games, and have yet to see a ref put a ball in a hoop.
I think it's about time to start thinking about "next year".
I look forward to the day when the "Y" plays something better than glorified "Church" ball.
The last time they played with some real grit was the Danny Ainge era. Because like him or not Ainge was a Player. Very hard for me to admit by the way.
This whole business of blaming the refs. Shessshhhhh. Get a life. I'm 56 years old, have watched thousands of games, and have yet to see a ref put a ball in a hoop.
I think it's about time to start thinking about "next year".
Re: Quest | 8:33 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
I agree 100%. BYU athletics seem to always be good, but haven't been able
to make the transition to great. Maybe it's the honor code, maybe it's
the focus on other things besides sports, football being 5th. Or maybe
it's all of us Zoobies drinking too much kool-aid and thinking we are
better than we really are.
Joe W. | 8:34 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
I'm not into the "officials conspiracy" either, but that tall,
balding ref who called a critical foul on Tavernari when the replay clearly
showed he didn't touch the guy made me wonder a little.
NorCal Dave | 8:43 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
Great game that Wake Forest won and BYU lost. But it is surprising to me that no
one has commented on what seemed to be the problem, keeping our bigs on the
floor. Miles out with 5+ minutes and played maybe 17 minutes total? MacGregor
fouls out. Abouo fouls out. That left us with guys that should not have been in
that position.
The upside is that this will improve over the course of the season but it killed us when we needed to stop their last run and/or score points at the end.
Fun game though, not often I go back and rewatch a basketball game, especially a loss, but I will watch this one just to watch Fredette again.
The upside is that this will improve over the course of the season but it killed us when we needed to stop their last run and/or score points at the end.
Fun game though, not often I go back and rewatch a basketball game, especially a loss, but I will watch this one just to watch Fredette again.
Dave | 8:48 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
On a neutral court Wake would have won by at least 15 pts. Gotta give you
credit for packing the house last night though.
Gretzky | 8:55 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
watched the game and must say that WF is more athletic, quicker to the
basketball and rebounding, and so forth. BYU was better at the 3 and system
play. the refs did homer the cougs though, big time. the pivotal bad call was
when Obouu blocked (all ball no skin) the WF shot and fouled out. that was the
clincher in the loss for BYU. Cummard did not play well. much like Hall does not
play well in the big football games. there is a common thread there of course. i
agree BYU needs to get some players with "ice in their veins".
Collingsworth will be coming back in a year or two. Emery is one of those as he
matures on the court. he is perhaps the big surprise this season having just
come off a mission and adjusting to married life and trying to get back into on
court shape so quickly. he is something special now and in the next few years.
Fredette is amazing too. he's taking over the team which is great. Obouu
will be very good too. the nucleus is there.
UNLV | 9:03 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
I don't see anyone beating UNLV for the conference crown this year. BYU is
ok but UNLV has shown they can score, play defense and win the big game. Utah is
too inconsistent and New Mexico looks a lot like Utah. I believe BYU will place
third behind UNLV and San Diego State. Utah will place 5th with the above
mentioned teams and TCU in front of them. UNLV will win the conference and the
tournament that is played on their home court.
Anonymous | 9:04 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
This was just like the MWC Championship Games and the Arizona State game, going
ice-cold down the stretch. That can happen to anyone, but when it becomes a
trend, you have to call it what it is- choking. I don't like to be hard on
college athletes, but the Cougars need to find a way to not let the pressure get
to them late in these big games and forget the previous ones or else it's
gonna be a long time before we win an NCAA Tourney game.
SOS very weak | 9:16 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
when ur SOS is one of the worst in the nation, u cant expect ur team to be
winning games when they finally play someone good.
makes u think the team is better than what they really are.
makes u think the team is better than what they really are.
Cummard A Pro? | 9:22 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
Yes, but in Europe. If he thinks he wants to play basketball after college his
only chance is overseas. To skinny and frail for the NBA (like Miles w/jazz).
You have to have both Beef and athletism in the NBA. Just a good college player
thats all you have with him.
Refs | 9:43 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
The three refs were from the Atlantic 10. And yes, that period where they made
three really bad foul calls was ridiculous, but don't blame the officials
for the loss. Had BYU executed the final two minutes, or even made one or two of
those shots, things would have been different. Can't blame the refs for
that.
Officials Not to Blame | 9:47 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
There were bad calls all around. There is a reason that Wake Forest is #6 in the
country and we are not. They are tremendously talented and it is stupid for us
to blame the refs because we couldn't stop Teague from driving in.
True Blue BYU | 9:45 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
Well, there goes our Quest for Perfection in basketball this year.
Utah fans | 9:45 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
Ute fans who get on here and bash BYU are classless. The Cougars are a good team
this year and played one of the nation's best right down to the wire, and
could have won. Yes, they folded. But you have to be impressed by the effort,
and there is no way Utah gives Wake this kind of battle.
Face Reality Cougs | 9:53 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
What exactly do we expect from our teams? BYU football and basketball is almost
100% LDS. And yet we compete at or near a top 25 level every season. We need to
sit back and accept our recruiting (and thus overall talent) limitations and be
appreciative of what our all-LDS kids are stil able to do night in and night
out. NO ONE performs better with more recruiting limitation - PERIOD.
What about Last Year | 9:57 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
As was probably part of the contract, last year MWC officials worked the game at
WF and the Deacons boatraced you out of the gym. Did you get homered there
too?
Normally it's the opposing team that gets it handed to them by the officiating at the Marriott Center. Now we are led to believe that an athletically-superior, sixth-ranked team out of the ACC was able to come in, beat you in your own building, and somehow, someway, it was because you got homered at home.
I suppose it's too much to ask for the zoobies to be gracious in defeat and in victory. Oh wait, the zoobies have never been gracious at anything.
Normally it's the opposing team that gets it handed to them by the officiating at the Marriott Center. Now we are led to believe that an athletically-superior, sixth-ranked team out of the ACC was able to come in, beat you in your own building, and somehow, someway, it was because you got homered at home.
I suppose it's too much to ask for the zoobies to be gracious in defeat and in victory. Oh wait, the zoobies have never been gracious at anything.
Re: NorCalDave | 9:57 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
I don't know why Anderson was held on the bench until the last few
possessions of the game. Maybe he was sick or something. But I can't hep
but think the outcome is different if he plays at least 10 minutes. That keeps
Mile and MacGregor in the game, and allows them to rest down the stretch.
I think the game came down to bench depth. If BYU had the depth to provide some rest for the starters, they win the game. But we didn't, and we lost.
As for the officiating, I can't say it was the best game ever called. But the missed calls and controversial calls went both ways. It really had no effect on the outcome of the game.
I think the game came down to bench depth. If BYU had the depth to provide some rest for the starters, they win the game. But we didn't, and we lost.
As for the officiating, I can't say it was the best game ever called. But the missed calls and controversial calls went both ways. It really had no effect on the outcome of the game.
BlueBoy | 9:57 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
The more patient team down the stretch won the game. BYU klunked 3's with
4+ minutes to go and only down by 2. Lack of patience. Wake Forest, on the other
hand, took their time and scored often on our klunker-long-rebound goofs.
BYU played well enough to win, stopping WF often enough in the last 4 minutes, but just didn't make sure to score when WF didn't.
Live by the sword (treys), die by the sword. Tavernari again sunk us. Should've driven to the basket more.
If Wake Forest really is a top 10 team, BYU's a top 20 team. But, that'll only get you one win in the NCAA tournament. Maybe two if you're lucky.
Once again, BYU should dominate the MWC conference, but bow out in the NCAA tournament due to no inside presence and no superstar player. This loss, with the Arizona loss, showed that.
BYU's now lost to two ranked teams with superstar (college level) players---guys that can maybe make it in the NBA. BYU doesn't currently have such a player (sorry, Cummard, Tavernari, Fredette). Superstars draw fouls!
Still, BYU is fun to watch. The wide-open offense makes the team entertaining.
BYU played well enough to win, stopping WF often enough in the last 4 minutes, but just didn't make sure to score when WF didn't.
Live by the sword (treys), die by the sword. Tavernari again sunk us. Should've driven to the basket more.
If Wake Forest really is a top 10 team, BYU's a top 20 team. But, that'll only get you one win in the NCAA tournament. Maybe two if you're lucky.
Once again, BYU should dominate the MWC conference, but bow out in the NCAA tournament due to no inside presence and no superstar player. This loss, with the Arizona loss, showed that.
BYU's now lost to two ranked teams with superstar (college level) players---guys that can maybe make it in the NBA. BYU doesn't currently have such a player (sorry, Cummard, Tavernari, Fredette). Superstars draw fouls!
Still, BYU is fun to watch. The wide-open offense makes the team entertaining.
Awesome! | 10:02 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
Great effort, Cougars! And the crowd was terrific! (Well, except for the
bonehead that threw that bottle on the court.) The program is in great shape.
Thanks, Coach Rose.
True Blue | 10:09 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
This just shows that BYU always has a hard time competing on the national level
in basketball. BYU's last NCAA Tournament win was in 1992. Yes, 17 years
ago. This is a big problem.
Zelph | 10:12 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
Maybe we can have a Quest for Perfection next year, since this year's Quest
is blown.
Conspiracy | 10:15 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
I'm sick of these refs. Were those the same one's from the ASU
game??? In my mind, BYU is 13-0!
RE: SOS very weak | 10:34 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
BYU RPI (basically their SOS) is #35. Now that is definitely not the highest, in
fact Utah's is higher, but it certainly is not one of the worst in the
nation. Before you make stupid comments like that, please check your facts. BYU
has played some pretty bad teams, but so does every other college basketball
team. BYU did lose to two pretty good teams over the last couple weeks, but I
think they have shown that they are at least competitive with them. If they
would stop taking so many bad 3-point shots, they may have a better chance at
beating these top teams.
Reality | 10:37 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
BYU has always struggled when faced with top 64 teams. It was 1991 since BYU
last won a Tournament game. They simply cannot compete at this level (at least
not in the last 18 years).
BYU needs to recruit outside of Utah once in a while. It may do the trick.
BYU needs to recruit outside of Utah once in a while. It may do the trick.
1rebelfan | 10:37 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
Well, I was hoping that the Rebels would be the team to end the streak but Wake
beat us to it. However, we will end the next streak that you begin. I
can't wait to get it on again this year!
The Rebelution has begun!!
The Rebelution has begun!!
Re:SOS very weak | 10:43 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
Weak SOS? I assume you mean strength of schedule. What are you talking about?
While most big schools play nothing but patsies this time of year, BYU has
scheduled some very good teams. The MWC will be very good this year.
Regarding speed: While wake Forrest was quicker than BYU, BYU is NOT slow. They are the quickest team WF has faced this year by their own admission. However they definitely got tired down the stretch which resulted in their extremely poor shooting. We saw this in the NCAA Tourney last year and against ASU and again last night. Lack of conditioning?
It seems like every game I hear an analyst say "Cummard had an off-night." Lee, when do we get to see an "on-night" or is this your usual game.
Regarding speed: While wake Forrest was quicker than BYU, BYU is NOT slow. They are the quickest team WF has faced this year by their own admission. However they definitely got tired down the stretch which resulted in their extremely poor shooting. We saw this in the NCAA Tourney last year and against ASU and again last night. Lack of conditioning?
It seems like every game I hear an analyst say "Cummard had an off-night." Lee, when do we get to see an "on-night" or is this your usual game.
USU Grad | 10:42 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
BYU has always been overrated in basketball. They always have a horrible show
in the big dance. Always!
If BYU wants respect, go win some post season games.
If BYU wants respect, go win some post season games.
John Lambert | 10:53 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
It is a no-brainer. No Tournament wins in almost 20 years equals no national
respect.
Someone please explain to me why we can't win tournament games? There has to be an answer. And, if there is an answer, why can't we fix the problem?
Someone please explain to me why we can't win tournament games? There has to be an answer. And, if there is an answer, why can't we fix the problem?
Re: Face reality | 10:57 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
You hit the nail right on the head. That puts it in perspective. No major
college has even close the limitations on recruiting that BYU has. They
aren't able to recruit the very best LDS athletes anymore-- and yet they
remain remarkable competitive year in an year out despite this huge
disadvantage. I think it is amazing that they do as well as they do. And that
is probably why some of these mindless Ute fans can only find fulfillment
bashing BYU on these blogs.
Re: Last year | 10:58 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
ACC officials did last year's game, so get your facts straight. Also, just
using the term "zoobies" in any comment shows how juvenile and bitter
of a person you are.
UNLV | 11:02 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
New Mexico and Utah will beat you. New Mexico's guards are too fast for
the Cougar guards.
Refs | 11:03 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
FYI... Last Years Officials were not MWC Officials
Officials:
Jamie Luckie:
Most common conferences: ACC, Big East
Doug Sirmons:
Most common conferences: SEC, ACC
Tim Nestor:
Most common conferences:CAA, ACC
BYU have some guts, just use MWC Officials, they work there fair share of Final 4 games.
Officials:
Jamie Luckie:
Most common conferences: ACC, Big East
Doug Sirmons:
Most common conferences: SEC, ACC
Tim Nestor:
Most common conferences:CAA, ACC
BYU have some guts, just use MWC Officials, they work there fair share of Final 4 games.
Ha CONSPIRACY? | 11:05 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
Why don't you stop blaming the refs and look at your own team. Cummard
preseason POY choked just like the ASU game, he couldn't hit a shot (give
WF credit they were blocking a bunch of shots) . Your other team leader
Tavernari had horrible shot selection late in the game but yet you put blame on
the refs, typical BYU fans. No I'm not a Ute fan but the better team won
the battle PLAIN AND SIMPLE. Good game though BYU looks good but like they say
you live by the 3 you DIE by it
Gracious | 11:05 a.m. Jan. 4, 2009
BYU fans not being gracious? Have you read the comments from the Utah sugar
bowl win? Many comments are from BYU fans congratulating the Utes for a great
season and an even better bowl victory (mine included). Yet the only comments
from Ute fans on this board are ones saying how bad BYU is this year in both
football and basketball. In football, for BYU, I'd take a 10-3 season any
year, and in basketball, 11-2 is pretty good.
And yes, there are severe recruiting limitations for BYU. Utah does not have these self imposed limitations, yet Utah has a worse record...why is this?
And yes, there are severe recruiting limitations for BYU. Utah does not have these self imposed limitations, yet Utah has a worse record...why is this?
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It looks to me like special treatment.
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I am very excited for this game. As much as I want the Utes to win, it won't...
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