Reader comments
Utah: Prices are down, but what's to come?
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questions | 5:12 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008
When prices grew by leaps and bounds we were told that it was all because of the
high price of gas.
Based on this reasoning, why is it that when the high price of gas is cut in half that we are amazed that grocery prices as well as other prices have come down?
Don't prices come down in a "depression"? Is this a depression rather than a recession?
Based on this reasoning, why is it that when the high price of gas is cut in half that we are amazed that grocery prices as well as other prices have come down?
Don't prices come down in a "depression"? Is this a depression rather than a recession?
Fixed Income | 7:07 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008
I think there is some gobley goop here.
CEO's of the food and grocery industry are making outrageous salaries at the expense of consumers.
I want to see a law in Utah to severly penalize groceries for over charging customers.
Example.
Price charged at the register is higher than the ad.
Grocery items mismarked on the shelves in the store.
Isn't there any consumer protection laws in Utah?
There are so many errors at the register and they all seem to be in the stores favor.
CEO's of the food and grocery industry are making outrageous salaries at the expense of consumers.
I want to see a law in Utah to severly penalize groceries for over charging customers.
Example.
Price charged at the register is higher than the ad.
Grocery items mismarked on the shelves in the store.
Isn't there any consumer protection laws in Utah?
There are so many errors at the register and they all seem to be in the stores favor.
Comments continue below
CP | 7:10 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008
The only real price I have seen come down is the gas prices. I have yet to
really see any real drop in food prices or clothes. Except when it was Black
Friday!
I don't need it. | 7:16 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008
Definition of recession :
When the neighbor is out of work.
Definition of depression :
When you are out of work.
This economy is going to get really bad and its going to last a long time.
My prophecy finally came to pass. I wish I had been wrong.
Back to the article. Why buy today when it will be a lot cheaper if you hold out.
When the neighbor is out of work.
Definition of depression :
When you are out of work.
This economy is going to get really bad and its going to last a long time.
My prophecy finally came to pass. I wish I had been wrong.
Back to the article. Why buy today when it will be a lot cheaper if you hold out.
Anonymous | 7:35 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008
I think America has finally woken up and realized we don't need it.
We don't need half of the junk people were buying.
We don't need the latest and greatest gadget.
We can be happy without "it".
Finally.
We don't need half of the junk people were buying.
We don't need the latest and greatest gadget.
We can be happy without "it".
Finally.
article title should read: | 8:23 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008
Media continues to scare public into deeper recession
Re Questions | 8:24 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008
Yes, normally deflation occurs during a depression. But I have to wonder. I
personally think this is not deflation; it is merely price correction from an
oil bubble. We had the dotcom bubble, the housing bubble, and then the oil
bubble. Now that oil prices are settling, the price is settling. And since the
price of oil affects virtually everything, we see "deflation." I
personally think it is merely price correction, but I could be wrong.
As for "I don't need it" the idea to put off purchases because of falling prices is very dangerous. That mindset no doubt will lead to worse economic times. I'm not going to be a Bush clone and say "spend like there's no tomorrow" but if we all stop spending to get a bargain, more job losses will occur.
As for "I don't need it" the idea to put off purchases because of falling prices is very dangerous. That mindset no doubt will lead to worse economic times. I'm not going to be a Bush clone and say "spend like there's no tomorrow" but if we all stop spending to get a bargain, more job losses will occur.
Re: finally | 8:34 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008
When it really hits and we as American should take it to the bank...we see
CEO's make ungodly amounts of money, we see athletes make ungodly amounts
of money and we quit buying into all this maybe the owners, the player will
realize they are not worth their salt. And for all those club teams and parent
throwing thousands of dollars at those coaches..save your money and educate the
kids and that will get you some where in life..
Greed | 8:41 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008
I think the problerm stems from greed. I work at a manufacturing company. When
gas prices rose, I would see our freight prices rise. Now that gas is down,
truckers are not passing on the savings to their customers. If the trucking
industry would pass on their prices to the manufacturer, then it would be the
manufacturers turn to lower prices to their customer and so on. If one person
or company in this chain fails to pass it on then the consumer(You and I) never
sees the benefit. AND, if we as the manufacturer get a break from the trucking
industry and we don't pass it on to our customers, our profits go up and we
are the greedy ones.
Greed | 10:17 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008
If everyone were equally greedy, then we would have a good/balanced society.
If consumers would value hard earned money, and use it judiciously, the CEO's and Players could never justify their salaries.
Its only when stupid overpaid consumers spend frivously that the imbalances can occur.
If consumers would value hard earned money, and use it judiciously, the CEO's and Players could never justify their salaries.
Its only when stupid overpaid consumers spend frivously that the imbalances can occur.
BigJN | 10:31 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008
Greed, how do you know that these companies and truckers are not just recouping
their losses over the past year? Is that greed to get back what they lost so
they can continue providing a service (and you a job)? I bet you are not asking
for a cut in pay, are you? Your ignorance is deafening.
Capitalist | 10:38 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008
I can see the socialists are coming out on this one. The amount charged for a
good or service is NOBODY'S business but the seller!
If you don't think groceries are worth their price, don't buy them! "But I NEEED them," you say. Grow your own then. If you can't, then I guess the man who produced your food is more valuable than you estimated, isn't he?
To take another example, the very fact that athletes make as much money as they do is evidence that they ARE worth it. Who'd be paying them if they weren't? There is no force or coercion involved there.
The magic of the free market is that goods and services always sell for what they are worth, your jealousies about those who produce more value and therefore acquire more riches than you notwithstanding!
If you don't think groceries are worth their price, don't buy them! "But I NEEED them," you say. Grow your own then. If you can't, then I guess the man who produced your food is more valuable than you estimated, isn't he?
To take another example, the very fact that athletes make as much money as they do is evidence that they ARE worth it. Who'd be paying them if they weren't? There is no force or coercion involved there.
The magic of the free market is that goods and services always sell for what they are worth, your jealousies about those who produce more value and therefore acquire more riches than you notwithstanding!
Free market | 10:40 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008
There are lots of "imbalances" that occur when you have global free
market forces at work.
Is some athlete worth $20 million a year? If you can get 20+ million people to spend an extra dollar or two in order to watch him play for your team, then yes he is. Is that necessarily fair to all the hard working Americans who toil hard each day for a small fraction of that amount? No, not really, but its how our system works.
If you can invent a new thing, build a better mousetrap, or find a way to save lots of people time and money you can make it big in this country.
Make a software program that 10 million people are willing to pay $10 for and you get $100 million even if it only took you a couple days to design and build the program.
Star in a movie that 100 million people will pay $6 to see and you can earn millions, even if you only spent a few weeks shooting the movie.
Is some athlete worth $20 million a year? If you can get 20+ million people to spend an extra dollar or two in order to watch him play for your team, then yes he is. Is that necessarily fair to all the hard working Americans who toil hard each day for a small fraction of that amount? No, not really, but its how our system works.
If you can invent a new thing, build a better mousetrap, or find a way to save lots of people time and money you can make it big in this country.
Make a software program that 10 million people are willing to pay $10 for and you get $100 million even if it only took you a couple days to design and build the program.
Star in a movie that 100 million people will pay $6 to see and you can earn millions, even if you only spent a few weeks shooting the movie.
Capitalist | 11:21 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008
Yes, Free market, there are imbalances (no need for quotes). What you are not
acknowledging is that imbalances are the result of people creating unbalanced
amounts of value to society.
What is so easy about doing something that appeals $1 worth to 20 MILLION people? What can you do that 20 MILLION people would pay you $1 for? If the answer is "nothing" then what is not fair here? It is very fair - as soon as you do something worth $1 to 20 MILLION people, you get paid like an athlete! Fair as can be.
If you have a brain capable of producing a computer program in a couple of days that is worth $10 to 10 MILLION people, then by golly you (and your brain) are worth every penny of the $100,000,000! Who's worth more, the computer programmer or the guy "toiling hard each day" sewing tennis shoes? Can't anyone "toil hard" to sew tennis shoes? Who will replace the computer programmer?
What isn't fair is when those producing less value demand that those producing more sacrifice thier life's value (in dollars) to them. Your NEED is not a claim on my LIFE!
What is so easy about doing something that appeals $1 worth to 20 MILLION people? What can you do that 20 MILLION people would pay you $1 for? If the answer is "nothing" then what is not fair here? It is very fair - as soon as you do something worth $1 to 20 MILLION people, you get paid like an athlete! Fair as can be.
If you have a brain capable of producing a computer program in a couple of days that is worth $10 to 10 MILLION people, then by golly you (and your brain) are worth every penny of the $100,000,000! Who's worth more, the computer programmer or the guy "toiling hard each day" sewing tennis shoes? Can't anyone "toil hard" to sew tennis shoes? Who will replace the computer programmer?
What isn't fair is when those producing less value demand that those producing more sacrifice thier life's value (in dollars) to them. Your NEED is not a claim on my LIFE!
"Capitalist" Read it again. | 11:47 a.m. Dec. 2, 2008
You disagreed with Freemarket, yet said the same thing. Perhaps you might want
to read with a bit more critical eye. You disagreed while argreeing. You
misunderstood what he was saying.
Media caused | 12:19 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008
I agree with the poster from 8:23. The Media is driving this recession.
Capitalist | 12:36 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008
To the contrary. He said, "Is that necessarily fair to all the hard
working Americans who toil hard each day for a small fraction of that amount?
No, not really..."
My argument is that it IS FAIR. How is that agreeing?
The way I read it, Fair market makes two claims. First, that the free market is "how our system works." I agree with that and made no argument against it. That is where, as you pointed out, we agree. His other claim is that it is not necessarily fair. I do not agree with that and made an argument against it.
What am I misunderstanding? Perhaps the critic needs a more critical eye?
My argument is that it IS FAIR. How is that agreeing?
The way I read it, Fair market makes two claims. First, that the free market is "how our system works." I agree with that and made no argument against it. That is where, as you pointed out, we agree. His other claim is that it is not necessarily fair. I do not agree with that and made an argument against it.
What am I misunderstanding? Perhaps the critic needs a more critical eye?
Fair Market | 1:10 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008
Re: Capitalist
I didn't mean to imply that we should adopt the socialist agenda and try to make our free market system more "fair" by distributing wealth.
I like our free market system and would like to see less, not more, government interference in it.
My "Is that necessarily fair..." comment was not meant to be a criticism of our system. I was merely pointing out one of the reasons that socialism seems attractive to many people.
There is something basic about human nature that says it isn't fair that a dedicated school teacher who provides a lifetime of hard work may never see much monetary reward while some high school dropout makes it big by being at the right place at the right time.
It can be a huge temptation to want government to step in and "fix" that imbalance. I don't want that to happen, but I recognize the temptation nonetheless.
By the way, I am a software programmer who is trying to build something that may make me a billionaire someday (by adding many $billions in value to the world economy of course.)
I didn't mean to imply that we should adopt the socialist agenda and try to make our free market system more "fair" by distributing wealth.
I like our free market system and would like to see less, not more, government interference in it.
My "Is that necessarily fair..." comment was not meant to be a criticism of our system. I was merely pointing out one of the reasons that socialism seems attractive to many people.
There is something basic about human nature that says it isn't fair that a dedicated school teacher who provides a lifetime of hard work may never see much monetary reward while some high school dropout makes it big by being at the right place at the right time.
It can be a huge temptation to want government to step in and "fix" that imbalance. I don't want that to happen, but I recognize the temptation nonetheless.
By the way, I am a software programmer who is trying to build something that may make me a billionaire someday (by adding many $billions in value to the world economy of course.)
Anonymous | 2:22 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008
Fair Market,
Well said. On the subject of school teachers - the reason for the discrepency and the associated human nature reaction you mention is that the education business is NOT a free market system.
I would argue that teachers are highly valuable and would be paid accordingly if the government would get out of the business of education and stop regulating the profession of school teaching. If true free market forces were allowed to rule in the education world, competition would drive the demand for GOOD teachers up and bad ones would be eliminated.
Well said. On the subject of school teachers - the reason for the discrepency and the associated human nature reaction you mention is that the education business is NOT a free market system.
I would argue that teachers are highly valuable and would be paid accordingly if the government would get out of the business of education and stop regulating the profession of school teaching. If true free market forces were allowed to rule in the education world, competition would drive the demand for GOOD teachers up and bad ones would be eliminated.
Capitalist | 2:29 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008
And good luck on your software, you greedy capitalist you! :)
rocket_scientist | 2:50 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008
There something missing from this conversation that people should recognize
before accusing companies and people of being greedy. It's hysteresis
(look it up), and it's not unexpected in the current environment.
In a nutshell, the response of one system (price of consumer goods) to another (price of oil) is dependent on the *direction* that the change occurs. When gas and diesel prices were rising, the price of goods was quick to follow. As gas prices have plummetted, grocery stores are slower but still headed the right direction.
Why? It's easy -- If gas prices can swing up 100% in a year, and then drop 60% in 3 months, and a change of administration is coming... any person setting prices for a week at a time is going to be extra cautious, watching competitors closely, trying not to make any big moves. What the last year has shown is that oil and gas prices could in a short time shoot up to $175/bbl and $6/gal. If your store's prices are too low then, you're in trouble!
In a nutshell, the response of one system (price of consumer goods) to another (price of oil) is dependent on the *direction* that the change occurs. When gas and diesel prices were rising, the price of goods was quick to follow. As gas prices have plummetted, grocery stores are slower but still headed the right direction.
Why? It's easy -- If gas prices can swing up 100% in a year, and then drop 60% in 3 months, and a change of administration is coming... any person setting prices for a week at a time is going to be extra cautious, watching competitors closely, trying not to make any big moves. What the last year has shown is that oil and gas prices could in a short time shoot up to $175/bbl and $6/gal. If your store's prices are too low then, you're in trouble!
blaming the media | 8:03 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008
Those who blame the media for the slide should also blame it for the ridiculous
run. With limited media the country fell into a depression. Look in the mirror
and ask yourself "Did I overconsume?, Do I need all of my shirts and
shoes?, Do we need the debt we have?" Start with yourself and get over the
blame of the media game.
free market not new discovery | 9:06 p.m. Dec. 2, 2008
Lots of people have traded freely from time immemorial I believe. It
wasn't called capitalism though. Capital is accumulated by saving or
borrowing; I prefer the former. It could just be a piece of cloth that someone
sells and then buys more with his profits. The greatest capital is our own
strength, work and ingenuity. The USA is not wholly a free economy by any
means; there is lots of institutionalized government interference, usually to
the detriment of the industrious.
I believe in buyer power as a consumer and giving a good deal as a seller. In a free market I am free to set my own price, and not necessarily the very highest I can get. I am free to charge a reasonable price no mattter how high is the demand for a product. I am free to purchase what I want and decline to buy the unnecessary or overpriced.
People do not only buy what they need and do not always make price comparisons. We do not all buy at the cheapest price. Laziness, affluence, inexperience cause many to buy whatever they take a fancy too, whatever is most fashionable, with small regard to cost.
I believe in buyer power as a consumer and giving a good deal as a seller. In a free market I am free to set my own price, and not necessarily the very highest I can get. I am free to charge a reasonable price no mattter how high is the demand for a product. I am free to purchase what I want and decline to buy the unnecessary or overpriced.
People do not only buy what they need and do not always make price comparisons. We do not all buy at the cheapest price. Laziness, affluence, inexperience cause many to buy whatever they take a fancy too, whatever is most fashionable, with small regard to cost.
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