Reader comments
Anti-flat tax group to launch ballot initiative

fairness? | 2:49 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

Fair means everyone pays the same percentage of their income no matter how much they make.

hard but good | 3:13 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

Transition is hard, so was paying almost a third of my severance pay to taxes under the old system. I think it should stay.

My taxes went up | 4:11 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

I'm a middle class working person, and under the new flat tax, my income taxes went up almost 10%. Thanks, Mr. Huntsman and the Republican Party of Utah. It looks like you practice socialism quite well, except in this case you take from the middle class and redistribute the money to the wealthy.

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Anonymous | 5:14 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

I hate to tell you, but the flat tax was a bipartisan effort, with both Republican and Democrat support. It passed unanimously in both the house and the senate. Although not a pure flat tax, it's better than what we used to have.

BH | 8:50 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

Wow, the complaints against the flat tax are shocking!!

For years all I heard from the citizens of Utah is how fair a flat tax would be. Everyone wanted it. Even those who knew that they would pay a little more at different times in their lives, felt the flat tax would be more fair and easier to understand.

Now we have it and people are whining. What gives? Just goes to prove the old sayings about not being able to make everyone happy.

Anonymous | 10:22 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

I just wish it actually were a flat tax -- no exemptions, no deductions. Unfortunately, it is still a progressive income tax. Those that want to repeal the new tax seem to forget that this new tax is actually more progressive and provided tax breaks to low-income individuals.

Economist | 2:26 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008

I'm an economist. Let me say immediately that not all economists agree with each other. But most of my fellow "dismal science" practitioners agree that the fastest way to kill motivation to increase marginal productivity is to penalize the prodictive. A "progressive" tax sounds great but really means that the more you make the more you pay as a percentage. While some in a flat-tax system pay more, what we fail to realize is that those who pay more are now STARTING to pay taxes for the first time. If you don't make much, you won't pay much, but if you have enjoyed the benefits of no tax because others had to pay for you, of course you will oppose a change. And you might call it unfair. But you consume government services too and by not paying you become a revenue liability to the government. Taxes destroy. Let the person paying taxes get the benefit of a flat system.

Bob G | 4:45 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008

This new flat tax system is not a flat tax system. It still offers deductions and exemptions that have countered any efforts to have a flat tax system. The one thing Utahn's failed to invisions with a flat tax system is the taxing rate. There is no guarantee it stays the same and can be adjusted upward every year to meet the needs of government and pork barrel projects. It is an easier system for legislators to subvert and raise taxes as needed. Neither system is fair or equitable and neither is a flat tax system. Taxation still falls on the low and middle income citizens backs. Then if businesses and illegal aliens paid their taxes on income it would sure help. Flat tax system is determined by the rate of taxation and very few people ever really looked at what percentage of their real income was going to taxes. Under the old system my taxes were near 7% with no deductions, but with the so called flat tax it goes up to 10%, and this is on fixed retirement income, so you do the numbers. And I expect the percentage to keep going up on a yearly basis.

lost in DC | 6:09 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008

I never wanted the flat tax, and I believe it will increase my taxes by over $1700. Huntsman's crowning achievement? yeah, a crown of thorns! Let me know where I can sign the petition. and I will be talking to my legislator.

BigPoet | 7:37 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008

Nothing can be fairer than the same percentage for everyone--thing about it. It's perfectly fair.

uncannygunman | 7:39 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008

A "flat-tax" with an exemption at the bottom is not flat at all, it is progressive. If the "flat-tax" rate is 20% with a $40,000 exemption, people making under $40k pay nothing; people making $50k pay 2k (4%); people making 60k pay 4k (6.7%); 100k pays 12k (12)%; and the percentage approaches the nominal tax rate as income rises.

Tinker with just two numbers (the tax rate and the exemption) and you can create a wide variety of progression curves to meet various needs, creeds, and situations.

It sounds like Utah's system is within striking distance of being this kind of "flat" (but actually progressive) system, and I think that's a good thing. Now just tinker with the numbers to make it a "fair" tax.

Lane Meyer | 8:50 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008

Marxism by any other name (Rings True Coalition) is still Marxism.

History teaches us over and over again to be aware of the tendency of a Republic to degenerate into socialism and eventually communism.

The tenure of this Republic we inherited from our forefathers relies on We the People to quell such attempts at transformation wherever they may be.

If this group of people intend to add value to society then why don't they suggest a tax system that is better than both of the systems currently in the debate? Pointing out a couple of "flaws" in the "flat" tax system is not an acceptable argument to revert backward toward communism.

Re Big Poet: | 6:18 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

It is not truly a flat tax, so it is not truly fair. Under this so-called flat tax, the lower income folks benefit, the upper income folks benefit, and the middle class pays the piper. There is more gerrymandering in this flat tax code than a redistricting bill.

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