Enjoyable read. More scattershot, Dick!

Double check your facts Dick.

Michigan lost to Illinois last weekend to fall to 2-3 (other losses to Notre Dame and Utah).

Toledo is 1-4 with sole victory versus Eastern Michigan.

Too funny Dick! You're so eager to cater to your whiny cougar fan base that you make up Michigan losses to make Utah look bad. Too bad Michigan actually lost to Illinois, a team from the Big 10.

I think what he meant to say was, "IF Michigan loses to Toledo then they might not be bowl eligible." Kind of a confusing sentence.

UTE fans?!?! haha michigan is bad no matter how you slice it, don't give me the "we beat a team who beat wisconsin(not good either)" blah blah blah. Michigan had FIVE turnover in the first half of that game against WI and somehow won...WI is not good. MICHIGAN is not good! OSU yes beat USC, utah did not beat usc! I learned in jr high that comparing teams this way is a terrible way of saying how good your team is....

Nick- You have a real little brother complex. Quit worrying about being picked on

Cougar fans shouldn't be talking SOS smack at this point.

As bad as you think Michigan and Oregon State are, UCLA is worse. And we won't even talk about Washington (0-5).

Check the facts before writing. Michigan has not lost to Toledo. One thing for sure, UW will not make any bowl this year.

Is this the year that ALL of the MWC's BCS wins turn out to be against the year's bottom-of-the-barrel teams? That usually only happens to BYU--beating highly-touted BCS teams only to find out that in the end they land in the bottom of their conferences.

When the BCS poll comes out and we find out the various SOS ratings for the MWC teams' opponents so far, and for for the conference as a whole, we probably won't be surprised.

Still, the MWC's non-conference record does get us some respect amongst the pollsters. That counts, as the polls are 2/3 of the BCS ranking.

This conference now needs to not beat itself up so much that not enough teams qualify for the possible bowl bids. With the way the conference started, it should be a banner year in that respect. Especially if both BYU and Utah meet undefeated, because they should both be in the top 10 then.

That could make it very interesting for the BCS bowl selection committees if they have an at-large BCS bid choice between a 1-loss Utah (or BYU, heaven forbid) and a 2-loss, lower ranked BCS team.

How about those Wildcats! They play football too. They beat the No. 4 FCS team in the country (Montana), by about 20 points.

byu just hasn't played anyone good yet.

BYU and Utah just need to keep winning. The polls, SOS, what other teams do, is out of their control.

The Cougars and Utes collectively are playing for the opportunity to face each other undefeated, ranked in the Top 10, in a winner take all MWC championship/BCS bowl bid grudge match.

The BCS bowl game to follow, for the winner, might actually pale in comparison to the hype surrounding the BYU/Utah game.

Don't blow it Cougs and Utes.

Einstein makes a very good point. Weber State is having a good year and won a big game against Montana over the weekend. How-bout some love for the Wildcats and Ronnie Mac.

Dick Harmon may have won the Dumb and Dumber Award when he proposes stats are more important than spitting in someones face.

Why don't all of you come back in a month when you can talk about real numbers and real polls. Right now none of this chatter really matters. Better off, stop ripping off your boss by posting during work. Earn your money and stop worrying about who beat who.

Dick likes to see if readers are paying attention; so he includes some easy ones for the whiners and complainers so they can feel sense of fulfillment.

What Dick really meant to say was a couple of players on the Illinois (3-2) team that beat Michigan (2-3) are from Toledo.

Dick, I'm sure you could "beat a drum or toot a horn" every bit as well as you could throw a football or tackle a guy. We tend to hold our marching bands and our football teams to a little higher standard.

You Ute fans are so insecure it is pathetic. If Harmon writes about Michigan it doesn't mean he is trying to discredit Utah. Little brother complex describes it perfectly.

I think the more pressing issue is whether or not the U of U administration will be able to keep the students from tearing down the goal posts if they beat Colorado State in their next home game.

Michigan lost to Toledo? They lost to Illinois last weekend but will probably win this weekend.

Two words: Colley Matrix.

Google it. BYU strength of schedule lowest in the nation BY FAR.

Last time that happened, we threatened to sue the BCS.

Hawaii put up 72 on us the next weekend.

USU strength of schedule roughly TWICE as tough.

There goes Dick with his inferiority complex again. Can he write an article without mentioning the Pac-10? We'll know the MWC has arrived when it isn't news when they beat Pac-10 teams, especially on a very down year for them.

Too early in the season to worry about the strength of schedule. Strength of schedules even out as the season goes on. That was more than two words. Sorry.

So much information, so little understanding.

Colley's SOS rankings only include games played to date, it does not include future opponents.

So, Wyoming (104 in Colley) IS included in BYU's SOS, but IS NOT included in Utah's SOS, even though Utah plays the Cowboys this week. Air Force (51) and UNLV (65) are included in Utah's SOS, but not in BYU's SOS since they Cougars haven't played those teams yet.

Utah's SOS will drop significantly this week. BYU's will go up significantly when they play Air Force and UNLV.

Massey gives us a glimpse of the final rankings by giving two rankings, one using the schedule played, and using the complete schedule, including future opponents.

For the complete schedule Massey's rankings are:

Utah--64
TCU--65
BYU--78

Based on the current records of all opponents for Utah, TCU and BYU, their end of season SOS will be very close, and is unlikely to change appreciably in relation to each other, since they play 8 or 9 common opponents.

Clueless Ute's who are busily congratulating themselves for their oh so superior SOS are in for a rude awakening at season's end when the BYU/Utah SOS are nearly identical.

I cannot believe you even dare run your mouth to Ute fans. . . You have not even played a decent team all year! The reason you are ranked where you are is due to your success in the 2007 season

"USU strength of schedule roughly TWICE as tough."

And Washington's SOS is the 2nd toughest in the country.

Which means exactly what?

That BYU and Utah pushed up USU's SOS, and USU pulled down BYU's and Utah's SOS.

For neophytes, that must be pretty amazing stuff.

To: Gary, Gary, Gary.....

64----------78

Nearly Identical?

Lemme guess, you appraise real estate in Utah County?

Common opponents? Both played USU in Logan.
Final Scores? ROFL NEARLY IDENTICAL???????

Agreed, big thumbs-up to Weber. Montana is a perennial powerhouse in the FCS and could be a competitive mid-major (perhaps WAC, maybe even MWC) but they like it where they are, quietly racking up national championships (2 so far, runner-up 3 times).

That's right. The reason the Utes are ranked lower is that BYU has won 15 straight games under Max Hall.

Live with it. If you beat BYU at the end of the year, then there will be a conversation.

Right now, there's nothing to talk about.

let me repeat myself: Why don't all of you come back in a month when you can talk about real numbers and real polls. Right now none of this chatter really matters. Better off, stop ripping off your boss by posting during work. Earn your money and stop worrying about who beat who.

One more time for those who don't comprehend very well: Why don't all of you come back in a month when you can talk about real numbers and real polls. Right now none of this chatter really matters. Better off, stop ripping off your boss by posting during work. Earn your money and stop worrying about who beat who.

BYU along with its penchant for the flagrant personal fouls will roll into Rice Eccles with AT LEAST one loss. Too bad. I'd like the boys in red, although not worthy, (according to Collie) to punch the Kitties in the mouth.

The sense of entitlement that exists in Provo is comical to the rest of the planet.

Keep scheduling patsies.

and it appears that only one of the "decent" teams Utah has played this year has a winning record.

Michigan 2-3
Oregon State 2-3
Weber State 4-2 (hmm, 1-AA, does that count)
Utah State 1-4
Air Force 3-2
UNLV 3-3

After all we heard about Utah's amazing SOS, this can't be right. There must be some weird glitch at NCAA record central.

Of course, some fans will argue that "our mediocre opponents are better than your mediocre opponents", but that's kind of like arguing whose ugly dance partner is the prettiest.

Dick, I love reading your stuff but I really think you need a fact checker. Texas is not ranked #2. They're #5 in both the AP and Coaches. In your own top 5 you have them #3. Where are you coming up with #2? Agreed however that ESPN's treatment of USC vs. Ohio St. was laughable. The Red River Shootout deserves 10 times the pub!

You make too many assumptions. And you know what that means. Nowhere in Gary. C. Rowton's post did he mention anything about Utah or its SOS. Nor, did he mention the entire year's SOS. He only mentioned BYU's current SOS, which is dead last in the CM rankings. Who cares about the entire season? Nobody's played an entire season yet. And if it did matter, the difference between 64 and 78 is a lot more than the difference between 9 and 13 (current rankings).

IS nearly identical when talking about SOS. We're not talking about real estate genius. Common opponent scores mean nothing except to those who are ignorant about football. Utah outscored BYU in five games last year with common opponents. 17-10 was the only score that mattered at the end of the year.

Learn how to post on a board dude.

64------78

is not an appreciable difference in comparing SOS.

I heard that Utah has been practicing their onside kicks this week so they can exceed BYU's 44-0 score over Wyoming.

And where are you posting from, Mr. "Take a nap"? You should take your own advice. (Or are you jobless, and therefore better than the rest of us?)

A word from a former band nerd: anybody can toot a horn or bang a drum...just like anybody can run around on a football field. It's doing it WELL that's the hard part.

It's true, though, that arguing about rankings at this point in the season is fairly pointless. Right now rankings are equal parts reputation and results; when everyone has a good 8 or 9 games under their belts, then we can start talking about whose season has been better. Even then it will still be mostly pointless, because everyone who takes an honest look at the system knows it's biased toward the BCS conferences and big-name, big-media-exposure teams.

Bet you a buck that if BYU, Utah, or both are undefeated in the final weeks of the season, at least one BCS team with 1 or 2 losses will be ranked ahead of them.

Utah 58 USU 10
BYU 34 USU 14

Pretty close the same right. Not even close. Not to mention Utah rested there starters a lot of the second half. Little brother syndrome only exsists in your blue tinted glasses. Take them off once in a while. There is more to life than BYU football.

Utah Utes opponent record: 15-17

BYU Kitties opponent record: 8-18

Is that an appreciable difference, Einstein?

Keep talking smack.

Hall for Heisman 15-0 against lowest strength of schedule in nation!!!
Lower, might I add, than the combined I-AA teams listed on Colley Matrix.

To: Learn to post on a board dude..........Anyone calling someone "DUDE" needs to either go back in from recess or go get a job. Either you are 16 and shouldn't be on here or you are 30 and still think you are 16. Either way, next time, address me as Mr. Take a Nap.

mid-season, preliminary rankings, especially SOS, mean NOTHING. Try using a little critical analysis to see the big picture instead of concentrating solely on the elephant's tail.

What difference does it make if BYU's (136) current SOS (in CM) is dead last?

Utah's (101) SOS isn't much better, and will be getting worse when they play Wyoming (104) this week.

BYU's SOS will improve by playing New Mexico (57) this week.

Again, so what?

The FIRST official BCS rankings won't be released until November 19th, by then BYU will have played TCU (31).

Stop concentrating on the elephant's tail.

good luck beating Wyoming by more than 44-0, without any onside kicks and without playing your starters for most of the second half.

Face it zoobies your inferiority complex is so bad its pathetic. The only way you have a chance at playing for a national championship, like it will ever happen is if you gain a 5 year track record of going to BCS games and winning them. Not going to happen with BYU. Only Utah wins the games that give the mwc credibility.

I happen to be the boss unlike you who is stealing from your employee. Perhaps you should give some of your paycheck to the poor since you didn't really earn it!!

Keep trying; little brother might be able to convince himself that the Utes are better than the Cougars.

So far, the 240 coaches, sportswriters and sportscasters who vote in the AP, Coaches, and Harris polls think otherwise.

BYU #9,#8,#9
Utah #13, #14, #13

And they're the ones whose opinion actually matters.

And stop interrupting the sports, er trash, whatever, talk.

Utah wins the games that give the MWC credibility, and then BYU beats Utah.

Gotta give our little brothers a little taste of glory.

BYU has also outscored those opponents an average of 41 to 11 per game while Utah has only outscored its opponents 37 to 21.

The point is BYU would be 6-0 against Utah's schedule and Utah would be 5-0 against BYU's schedule. Both teams are very good.