Reader comments: MormonTimes.com: A field guide to conference protesters
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ha ha | 11:01 a.m. Oct. 2, 2008
thanks for the article, I thought it was hilarious!
Jessica | 11:20 a.m. Oct. 2, 2008
You shouldn't take these groups that protest conference too lightly. My husband of 13 years was introduced to one of these groups while we where waiting for confernce to start.
He subsequently left the Church and it has been devastating to me, our missionay age son and little daughter. We are barely holding on at this point.
He subsequently left the Church and it has been devastating to me, our missionay age son and little daughter. We are barely holding on at this point.
Comments continue below
I Agree, "Let's Be Nice" | 1:04 p.m. Oct. 2, 2008
While I admit I got a chuckle out of this article at first, after thinking about it, I don't think there's much to be gained from mocking the mockers. So, MormonTimes staff, are you opening the door to justify the "revile against those who revile" philosophy? This isn't quite it, no--but it's a step towards the slippery slope.
We quite obviously disagree with these people. I've run into a few of them myself at various church-related venues. But I would hope we have not yet forgotten President Hinckley's counsel--which President Monson hasn't exactly overturned--to disagree without being disagreeable.
Also, remember: THEY WANT US TO SHOW THROUGH OUR WORDS AND ACTIONS THAT WE'RE NOT CHRISTIANS. When we make fun of them, aren't we doing just that?
As a missionary 20 years ago, and as a Public Affairs volunteer at various church-related venues since, I was frequently counseled about church critics: Just leave them alone. They want to draw you in to an argument. They want you to embarrass yourself.
Perhaps the Mormon Times hasn't gotten the message?
We quite obviously disagree with these people. I've run into a few of them myself at various church-related venues. But I would hope we have not yet forgotten President Hinckley's counsel--which President Monson hasn't exactly overturned--to disagree without being disagreeable.
Also, remember: THEY WANT US TO SHOW THROUGH OUR WORDS AND ACTIONS THAT WE'RE NOT CHRISTIANS. When we make fun of them, aren't we doing just that?
As a missionary 20 years ago, and as a Public Affairs volunteer at various church-related venues since, I was frequently counseled about church critics: Just leave them alone. They want to draw you in to an argument. They want you to embarrass yourself.
Perhaps the Mormon Times hasn't gotten the message?
To: Jessica | 2:18 p.m. Oct. 2, 2008
If it had not been one of these groups, it would have been something else to pull your husband away. If a spirit is strong and solid, it will withstand the voices that go against the Church and the Savior. My daughter decided to abandon all that she had been taught, I don't place blame on her husband, even though he's a strong influence, but only she can account for her choices.
That is what this life is about, agency, and we have the choice to follow the voice of discord and hate, or to follow the Prophet.
You have the choice as to how you let your husband's choice affect you. My hope for you, is that you will find peace and know that you can be happy, even though there are terrible things that go on in your life.
Your relationship with your Father in Heaven is the most important of all, not even a child or your husband is worth separating yourself from God, but sadness and depression will take away the sweet comfort that the spirit brings. Your children are watching your cue, if you let the Savior take your burden, so will they.
That is what this life is about, agency, and we have the choice to follow the voice of discord and hate, or to follow the Prophet.
You have the choice as to how you let your husband's choice affect you. My hope for you, is that you will find peace and know that you can be happy, even though there are terrible things that go on in your life.
Your relationship with your Father in Heaven is the most important of all, not even a child or your husband is worth separating yourself from God, but sadness and depression will take away the sweet comfort that the spirit brings. Your children are watching your cue, if you let the Savior take your burden, so will they.
Jeanie b. | 2:53 p.m. Oct. 2, 2008
Sometimes a little humor keeps things in perspective.
Keeping the prophet's counsel in mind I won't say outloud why, in the presence of such ugliness, I have a grin on my face.
Keeping the prophet's counsel in mind I won't say outloud why, in the presence of such ugliness, I have a grin on my face.
Anonymous | 3:24 p.m. Oct. 2, 2008
This is an embarrassing article. It mischaracterizes the protesters by using childish puns ("Me no like Mormons"). The protesters do not say things like that. They are eloquent, well-versed and very gregarious. Yes, they misrepresent Mormons and our beliefs. But that doesn't give us an excuse to do that to them. They are not "liars," even if what we believe they say is wrong. They really believe what they're doing is right. They really believe that Mormons are going to h--- if we stay members of the Church. That is their motivation, and really anything besides that would not justify them doing what they do. I don't agree with them, but they are people. Treat them with dignity.
it's okay | 5:09 p.m. Oct. 2, 2008
Most of these "protesters" are pushy, disrespectful, tactless and completely bereft of consideration for the desire of those who wish to attend conference. There are other venues and classier ways to try to "save the Mormons." This good-natured and creative article is a good-natured way of nicely asking for a little "space" from this endless harrassment that must be "endured" so Latter-day Saints can cross the street with our families and receive counsel from those whom we've chosen to sustain as our leaders.
Fredd | 5:18 p.m. Oct. 2, 2008
To: To jessica--To be Mormon or non Mormon is not a choice between "discord and hate" or "the sweet comfort that the spirit brings". Spirituality takes many forms and can be equally satifying to the individual. It depends what you believe. If Jessica's husband didn't believe then he was not receiving sweet comfort, he was probably tormented. As long as he leads a moral life (not Mormon morals, but what we all know to be moral) and is kind to her and meets his responsibilities there should be no issue. People of different faiths marry and are happy all the time. It is not unreasonable to be skeptical of the Mormon faith. It is wrong for the protesters to behave the way they do, but not to believe the way they do.
To Jessica | 5:27 p.m. Oct. 2, 2008
As long as you put all of your faith into a church and not into God, you will continually be hurt by restrictions and conditions that you church places on you. I also am a former LDS member and I will tell you that after the initial shock to my family and friends, things are now much smoother. The guilt trip that is placed on former members is unbelievable. I realize that you have been taught that your husband has now seperated you as an eternal family. However, if you look deep within yourself without any of the church rhetoric running through your head, do you really believe that an all loving God would seperate you from your husband? If you can allow your heart to answer that question and not your head, you will find that the LDS Church is using fear in order to keep its members commited to them. If you continue to love your husband, with no strings attached, you find that everything begins to work out on its own. Keep love in your heart and show your son that your family loves each other UNCONDITIONALLY.
It is OK | 5:30 p.m. Oct. 2, 2008
Turnabout is only fair. If their are a few protestors out their at Temple Square, it still cant make up for the many pushy missionaries that want to share "the so called only true church" with every one they come in contact with. LDS people need to remember that us non-LDS really don't like getting two teenagers coming to our doors trying to sell their religious dogma uninvited. No soliciting should apply to them as well. Peace and Love
RE: to Jessica 5:27 | 6:50 p.m. Oct. 2, 2008
IT amazes me how many can not stand the refining fire of the gospel and "Jump" out.
Then claim they are somehow better off or freer for it for having done so.
Then claim they are somehow better off or freer for it for having done so.
I See... | 7:06 p.m. Oct. 2, 2008
... what's going on here. The Mormon Times writes a lame article about protesters. Then the protesters take over the comments! Not that I blame them. They're entitled to their own opinion, way of seeing things, and free agency. If the Mormon Times isn't going to respect that and allow them their dignity, perhaps it's only what the publication deserves.
So remember, you MT folks--you made the choice to publish the story, now you get to live with the consequences. I sure wish the rest of us didn't, too.
In any case, I'm deeply disappointed in some of what the Mormon Times is writing about. From trophy fiancees at mission reunions to ill-advised pokes at church critics who are best off left alone, you MT people are giving a whole new meaning to the expression "a peculiar people." I'd ask what's next, but I'm not sure I really want to know.
I think I'll stick with Meridian. They're pretty orthodox, sure, but they at least try to be intelligent about what they write without taking petty cheap shots that ultimately embarrass themselves.
So remember, you MT folks--you made the choice to publish the story, now you get to live with the consequences. I sure wish the rest of us didn't, too.
In any case, I'm deeply disappointed in some of what the Mormon Times is writing about. From trophy fiancees at mission reunions to ill-advised pokes at church critics who are best off left alone, you MT people are giving a whole new meaning to the expression "a peculiar people." I'd ask what's next, but I'm not sure I really want to know.
I think I'll stick with Meridian. They're pretty orthodox, sure, but they at least try to be intelligent about what they write without taking petty cheap shots that ultimately embarrass themselves.
Jim | 7:45 p.m. Oct. 2, 2008
A 'field guide'; Are there mormon militants out there protecting temple square? What other covert ops are the mormons running? This just keeps getting better; LOL! Soon the d-news and church will loose all respect because of the alienation and persecution of others.
Some tactless people. | 9:52 p.m. Oct. 2, 2008
My goodness, this is an LDS site, as members of the LDS church, we not only love the church, but we believe that Christ stands at the head of it. We believe that Thomas Monsen is the Prophet and we believe in eternal families. Jessica has a right to feel sorrow, that a loved one turned away from what he once believed, our Father in Heaven felt that when Satan turned away from what he believed. Jessica also needs to not lose faith in the promise of eternal happiness, is she is obedient. Now for you non-LDS, this is an LDS forum and so to express anti-Mormon ideas here is rude and disrespectful. I would not go to another religion and bash their ideas, so my advise to the anti's, GROW UP AND BE KIND.
LDS from Canada | 10:36 p.m. Oct. 2, 2008
I thought the descriptions of the various protesters were very funny and cute. Who says we don't have a sense of humour. I am always amazed at the nasty and antagonistic remarks I read on line. I guess we're too laid back here in the frozen north. I'll be back to read all the anti Canada remarks in a few days. : )
Re: Some tactless people | 11:56 p.m. Oct. 2, 2008
Did you read the article and how it was making a point of mocking people who express their views outside of temple square? I certaintly don't want to get into an arguement. However, if you realize the irony in your comments I believe that you will see that you are the one who is bringing hate into this discussion. You state that we should GROW UP AND BE KIND out of one side of your mouth and then you say that: "Jessica has a right to feel sorrow, that a loved one turned away from what he once believed, our Father in Heaven felt that when Satan turned away from what he believed" out of the other. Stating that Jessicas husband by leaving his faith is in any way similar to Satan turning away from what he believed, is a bit disturbing. This is my main point. If a Methodist decided to become a Lutheran, there would be nothing said and no hard feelings would occur. Why is it that when a former LDS member leaves, they are anti-mormon and are compared to Satan? I think it is obvious that alot of Mormons are living their religion through fear.
Another reply to "tactless" | 1:18 a.m. Oct. 3, 2008
Um--hold on, "tactless." To quote: "...to express anti-Mormon ideas here is rude and disrespectful. I would not go to another religion and bash their ideas, so my advise to the anti's, GROW UP AND BE KIND."
You mean, as opposed to bashing anti-Mormons? Isn't that rude and disrespectful? Shouldn't Mormons themselves--and their newspapers that publish such "funny" articles (ha, ha indeed)--"grow up and be kind" if that's what they expect of others? Who's really trying to be like Jesus here?
Truly disappointing to see this article stoop nearly to the street preachers' level.
FYI, for anyone who cares to respond: I'm active LDS, thanks.
You mean, as opposed to bashing anti-Mormons? Isn't that rude and disrespectful? Shouldn't Mormons themselves--and their newspapers that publish such "funny" articles (ha, ha indeed)--"grow up and be kind" if that's what they expect of others? Who's really trying to be like Jesus here?
Truly disappointing to see this article stoop nearly to the street preachers' level.
FYI, for anyone who cares to respond: I'm active LDS, thanks.
2 points | 2:14 a.m. Oct. 3, 2008
When I left my former faith to join the LDS Church, the reaction was shock, dismay and despair for them. They asked what they had done wrong to drive me down that path. They said I had been tempted by Satan to turn against what I was taught all my life. I was on the receiving end of guilt trips. I was told I was turning away from salvation.
Point 1: It's not only LDS members who act this way when someone leaves their faith.
Point 2: Jessica and others who had a family member leave the Church. God is so merciful. I believe there's no reason to panic. Of course it's disappointing, but remember, we believe that everyone has to do the same things and God will give everyone every fair chance to be saved before the final judgment. Take comfort in that. We don't believe people are going to hell when they die if they're not in the right faith, even former Mormons.
And I intentionally left out what faith I used to be, lest anyone generalize and think everyone in that faith acts the same way. That seems to happen a lot on these boards.
Point 1: It's not only LDS members who act this way when someone leaves their faith.
Point 2: Jessica and others who had a family member leave the Church. God is so merciful. I believe there's no reason to panic. Of course it's disappointing, but remember, we believe that everyone has to do the same things and God will give everyone every fair chance to be saved before the final judgment. Take comfort in that. We don't believe people are going to hell when they die if they're not in the right faith, even former Mormons.
And I intentionally left out what faith I used to be, lest anyone generalize and think everyone in that faith acts the same way. That seems to happen a lot on these boards.
Some tactless people. | 9:31 p.m. Oct. 3, 2008
My heart and empathy go to Jessica, and in my statements, I was saying that it was not very considerate to her to spew anti-Mormon feelings when she is hurting by her husbands choice. I also was saying that being an LDS site, she of all people has a right to express her feelings about someone leaving the church that she loves. I would defend that right to any church owned newspapers that had a section that was strictly about their church. So if someone is a Baptist and their child left that church to become a Mormon and in a Baptist paper was expressing that sadness, I would not tear them down when they were expressing in a place designated for them. There were some comments that were not supportive to Jessica, this is an LDS site and there should be respect to those who are expressing LDS feelings.
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such things... Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5, 6, 7
and also 3rd Nephi).
Be Grateful that we live in a nation that has Freedom
of Expression and Freedon of Religion.