Is anyone really surprised? Teachers are overwhelmed with too many students, too many problems, and too little help. I don't know many teachers who enjoy their job. Many are simple unprepared or unable to cope with the problems they encounter in the schools, and there is little support from principles or parents. At the very least, we need to give every teacher in elementary school with more than 20 students an aide. Those who voted against school vouchers made a mistake. They've doomed our children to a second rate education system.

I think the increase is due to students moving here from other states. I'd like to see a stat regarding the percentage of students who enter eighth grade here who take the tests who are still living here.

I am so sorry that Anonymous 1:00 am does not know many teachers who enjoy their job. I LOVE MY JOB! In fact, it is not a job, it is a profession where I can have fun while helping students.

Anyone who does not enjoy his or her job should definitely find another job, or better yet a profession where one feels satisfaction.

I like the idea of giving every teacher with more than 20 students an aide; even better would be to have every class with 25 students or less.

If you would like to make a difference, come volunteer at your local school. If you love the profession, inquire how to become a teacher yourself, we always need more loving dedicated teachers.

Support from parents is the most important variable that can change a child's outcome in school. Vouchers would not change this.

Oh boo hoo - poor poor teachers. Struggling with great pay and benefits. A few holidays each month. Out of school days constantly. Summers off to work other jobs for even more money. How many hours a day - surely not 8. If they don't like the job - don't get into it - and if you were so silly as to trap yourself in such a sad job - get out. Find a job with the same benefits - you won't. Stop whining and do your job - whatever it is. By the way whining is not part of your job description.

I worked in the Utah School System for ten years. Then I moved to California. In California the PRINCIPALS work really hard to ensure that schools succeed, not just the teachers... Also principals in California only make
$10,000 more than the highest paid teacher. In Utah I know that principals make 50,000 more than the highest paid teacher. To do what????

I, too am a teacher who loves my job. But when I have students in my class who are cutting themselves while their mothers try to tell me it's their cat scratching them; when I have students in any one class of 35 whose reading skills range from 2nd to 12th grade; when I have parents who think their kid should get an A just for breathing and others who think I should be dragging them kicking and screaming through Silas Marner because their 9th-grade English teacher didn't have any better imagination than to force upon them this boring, irrelevant book; when parents sign a student's reading log without making sure they've actually read anything; when parents allow their kids unlimited time in front of TV and/or video games, there's not much I as a teacher can do to "fix" things. Hey oldman, trade places with me for a week. I spend anywhere from 5 to 20 hours a week outside of class between the classes I'm taking for my master's degree and the time I spend grading papers or preparing lesson plans. You've got nothing to criticize if you haven't been there and done that.
Respectfully,
PR

I have a girlfriend that is a 5th grade teacher. she has 35 kids in her class and some of her kids have some special needs. It is very hard for her to help all the kids in her class and parents to do help either these days so it makes it harder for teachers. So give the teachers a break they are doing the best they can with what they have been given.

there are some principals out there that have there own agenda to make themselves look good and do not care what the teachers have to do.

Oldman: lets see you go do their job everyday and see what you think about it. unless you have done it you have no clue to what you are talking about. and yes they work 8 hours a day. not to mention the hours they put in at home preparing lessons and their own money they spend to try a make a difference in each childs life.

What state do you live in, Oldman? My husband has been a teacher for 20 years. Pay? I laugh. He has a Master's degree and we make about as much as most industries pay someone straight out of school. And as for benefits. Insurance, limited. It has been dropping every year. Last year, for basic medical and one surgery, we are out of pocket over 10 grand. Most districts require teachers to PAY for insurance now. Those days off school... unpaid. After school assignments... unpaid. Mandatory meetings... unpaid. Take home work... unpaid. As for summers. He has about 10 weeks off. What kind of job hires you for 10 weeks? Minimum wage. He teaches because he loves it. He'd love to just do his job, but no, he has to deal with poorly written tests, parents who think their child should get an "A" because he is a star athlete, administration that requires extra work, and people like you who think the job is easy. There are reason's good teachers burn out and quit leaving those who can't do anything else. Go volunteer at your school. See how things really work.

Great pay? New teachers are barely above the poverty level. When they can finally afford to get a ,aster's degree, which most teachers do, they still make far below what that degree would bring in marketplace. People with attitudes like yours are a big part of the problemk. You have no idea what these teachers face based upon the ills of society that are prevalent in classroom. Class size in Utah is about double anywhere else.
Wanda,your numbers are absolutely incorrect. There isn't a principal in Utah,e ven with a doctorate who makes the money you claim. Principals are as overloaded as teachers.

Hey Oldman, my wife is a teacher who works from 7 to 5 every day. She has a half hour lunch and no other breaks. In spite of poor math skills, I think that works out to more than 8 hours a day.

I am a business exec who makes good money, but in spite of her extra days off I would never trade places with her. It is very stressful, even without the parent hassles.

oldman:
My wife is an elementary. Many teachers put in 10-12 hour days plus Saturdays not to mention all of the worthless meetings that are piled on them. They more than make up for any perceived benefits of some time off in the summer. Besides that many untold hours are spent during the summer getting ready for the next school year. If 40,000 a year for someone with a masters degree and ten years in their field is excessive then maybe you should disclose what you do and make for a living.

Everyone on here is debating the teaching profession, but did anyone read the story. It basically says that while NCLB requirement get tougher every two years, more Utah schools met the AYP requirement this year then compared to last year. Isn't that good news?! Seems like it to me.

Oldman - if teaching is such a great paying job with all sorts of great benefits, time off and easy duty, why is there a shortage? You would think everyone, including you, would be flocking to get in on the gravy train. My wife is a teacher and I wouldn't put up with that baloney (see other posts, especially PR's) for $100,000 per year and 4 months off.

No mention of challenge regards gender.

Anonymous poster at 1:00 AM. Class size is not as big an issue as most people would like to think and vouchers are NOT the answer to solving the problems with the public education system. My children attend a private school and with the exception of my oldest child's class the other classes have nearly 30 students each and I still believe they are receiving a superior education.

Having invested much in my children's educations (including time and additional money I spent on my oldest and her classes when she was in public school for 3 years) I believe these things need to be addressed:
1. Parents need to be much more involved in their children's education. If you are not 100% committed (helping the school through PTA, going to school board meetings, etc.) you are part of the problem. Don't blame the teachers.
2. Committed and accountable teachers. Teachers who don't give 100% effort need to be let go.
3. Accountability for school administrators. If the teachers are failing it is up to them to find out why and help fix it. (Like going without raises themselves to buy much needed supplies.)
4. Merit based rewards for teachers.

Hey, Amy Stewart! Why the negative leading headline and first paragraph when most of the data you site is good news? What's your agenda?

No Child Left Behind is a mathematical impossibility. A school must improve by at least 4% every year to make adequate yearly progress. Eventually, there is a ceiling that the school will not improve upon. Every school will go down at some point. You have a better chance of winning the Powerball lottery every day for a month than you have of your local school making adequate yearly progress every year.

Rich High rocks!!! We have one of the highest testing averages state, and we are a 1A school. The teachers here are absoulutely amazing. Schools should model their programs after us. We have had 100 students gradutate with an Associate's Degree from Utah State. Rich High rocks!!!!!!

There is good news in this story. Pass rates are improved from previous years depsite higher standards required for passing the tests. Teachers, administrators, students and parents ought to be complimented for that imporvement. The public ought to be happy as it is an indicator that there is good teaching going on in our Utah classrooms.

However, the problems discussed about low teacher pay, shrinking benefits, long hours, large class loads, low teacher morale and lack of support from some parents and administrators are real. These issues must be resolved if we expect to see continued improvement in test scores. Our children are important to us and to the future of America. Their education must be a high priority for all of us as they will be faced with difficult decisions about the economy, national security, immigration, social security and medicare. If they are not prepared to make reasonable choices in these areas we will all suffer. They must be prepared to join the work force with the skills necessary for success there. Money spent on educating our chilldren is one of the best investments we can make. Part of that investment is for better teacher salaries.

My school passed NCLB and UPASS. We weren't surprised. We have many challenges but have students, parents, teachers, administrators, and support staff (and a great community) that are dedicated to student improvement and progress. We don't allow excuses to get in the way of doing what is needed for every student to succeed.

I was a little surprised by the headline. Doesn't it put a negative spin on what should be seen as progress?

Oldman,

Surely not 8 hours a day is correct. I usually put in 12. I get to school at 7 and usually leave at 5. I get home and start getting stuff together for the next day, or correct papers.

During this past summer I didn't attend any workshops or extra schooling. I usually do as do most teachers. I still put in countless hours getting my new classroom ready and getting plans up.

Duh, what you never hear is that passing NCLB scores are actually failing grades. So 70% of the kids have to score in the 40-60% range for competency. Yeah, our public educators are bawling about not being able to get most kids to a failing level. Is it any wonder our little nintendo brains are struggling to enter the real world, function like real adults, and compete with the rest of the educated world that is improving their scores for real according to international standards instead of the phony american standards? It's pathetic that we're comparing ourselves within a compromised education system. It's like competing in the loser's bracket and never getting to the big dance itself. Too bad the USOE and the districts are filled with such dropouts, from top to bottom, from the real world.

oldman, sound like you are the big whinning baby......

If NCLB is to be considered legit, the average scores should be 50%. Duh. That would be average. Grade and test inflation don't account into a test. Only the best of the best should get a 90%. Don't spout off when you don't know what a score means.

oldman doesnt understand that just one, i'll say it again .. just one special education student (let alone the 10's that go to mainstream schools and classrooms) can bring down a passing nclb school to failing the nclb standards and requirements ...

attendance, testing , assignments .. just one of these out of whack and passing nclb just went to failing nclb

just one special education student can do this

teachers, adminstrators cant do anything about this

would frustrate anyone trying accomodate any entitled person forced by law to be 'mainstream' in the educational system

nice idea .. just not with everybody allowed to be under the same educational roof ...

all the best to all who are trying their best

I guess it's kinda like the glass of water..is it half full or half empty. On the way to town this morning, my wife and I heard a news report on the radion exclaming how good Utah's schools were doing because they achieved a high percentage than last year. Then I read this article and it's like "gloom and doom." Sounds like this writer feels the glass is half empty.

NCLB is a bogus program.

It's erroneous to compare American test scores and schooling to the rest of the world. In most other countries education beyond a basic level is reserved for students who test into high school. Kids who don't score high enough are sent to vocational schools to get started on the rest of their lives while the brightest are allowed to continue on to high school. In America, schools are required to take anyone dropped of at the door with no questions asked. Of course our testing of all high school students isn't going to match up to other countries' testing of their best and brightest.

Wanda has the best comment on here!! The school administrators in Utah are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overpaid when compared with teachers and those in other states!! The Governor is looking to make cuts...start there!! A good old boys network BIG TIME. The entire interview process for hiring and the transferring of teachers needs to be investigated or revamped as it stands it is a joke. The fix is in on most hires. Administrators are just trying to meet a quota. They refuse to support most teachers and in fact bully and intimidate many of them. When I saw what school administrators make it made me realize why they think they are so high and mighty!

Wow old man was a perfect internet troll.

If you don't feed the trolls they will go away.

I am all for raising the bar. From what I read, however, NCLB standards increase to the ultimate goal that 100% of the students pass the AYP. With the rising percentage of special education students, that seems to be a recipe for failure. Besides, how can the Feds expect special ed populations to score as high as the regular ed?

Wanda: There is no principal in Utah that makes $50K more than the highest teacher. Go on-line and look at the salary charts. Principals have to be at all the games, concerts, activities, etc. That means 12-14 hour most days of the week. All the teachers my kids have had work about 8 hours on site and another 2-3 at home= 10-11/day.

Those who question benefits? That is why they went to college.

Sounds like the schools are improving quite a bit.

Way to go!

We get more bang for our buck in Utah than in any other state in the union!

Unfortunately old man was trolling trying to be funny.

The sad part, as you can tell from the responses, is that the teachers (and their families) are at their wits end.

Someone trying to be funny on a message board is only adding to the stress and fury the teachers are already feeling.

I don't have any doubts that reading this stuff will push some of the teachers over the edge. Probably some of the good ones.

Either way it did nothing to help the state of our education system in Utah.

Our kids are suffering in over-crowded classes with not enough people willing to teach.

Comments like those don't help.

I wonder what we will do when we have 50 kids per class?

Wanda is right! Go on Utah's right to know.com and look up what your child's principal makes... I have a sister who teaches in this state of Utah and her principal hasn't even been to her classroom since the start of school, so don't tell me that they work longer and harder than teachers because they don't! It seems like people have fallen for that line much too long now!

In other states principals are paid about ten thousand more than the highest paid teacher

The real money pit in at least high schools are the athletic programs. If you knew how much money is wasted (and I mean for no real good reason, I have nothing against athletics) it would make you ill. Get rid of those and spend the money on academics for starters. Then clean up the administration and give teachers the tools to do their jobs and the problem will solve itself.

In defense of administrators... they often earn the high pay. They are 10-12 administrators. They go to games and functions. They are the frontline against rabid parents and demanding district and state workers who only want more, but haven't seen the inside of a classroom in years... if ever.

I don't care what the pay is. I don't think I'll ever want to be a principal. VP would be okay. Then I can handle the discipline of all your snot-nosed brats. :P

My director (the equivalent of a Principal at a Charter) arrives 6:50 AM and has never left before me. The latest I have been at the school save Parent Teacher Conferences was 6:40 PM. I doubt she earns double what I do. But she is worth four times that amount.

Elementary School principals don't have athletics to stay for. I am a teacher in an elementary school and sorry they do not work any harder than any teacher!!! I looked up my principal's pay on Utah'srighttoknow.com and I found that she makes 96,000. I have taught for close to twenty years, and I make in the 40,000's. I work as many hours as her.

I think most teachers feel your pain!!! I know I do!!!

RE:Science Teacher | 8:42 p.m. Sept. 30, 2008

Quick thinker says...kissing up in education gets you nothing. Get a life and face the facts!! Making cuts start with administrators.