The book doesn't appear to written for LDS. It is one sided. It's better reading for nonmembers.

It is rather disingenuous to somehow suggest that this event should be viewed in the context of the times and that it was not an isolated incident in the vast litany of crimes and injustices perpetrated in the name of God. The fact of the matter remains: members of a supposedly divinely inspired church willfully murdered innocent men, women and children simply because they were viewed as some kind of threat. The Mountain Meadows Massacre and all similar atrocities are to be condemned for what they are and not somehow excused because of some historical context.

One problem with being the chosen people is you have to be perfect, you have to be in sync with God and God's plan. If you get caught being human, lowering yourself to the base level, then a logical outsider would conclude that you are not the chosen ones. Logical. That is the meaning of the MMM. When I was growing up in Utah County my Mormon school teachers told me that MMM was not a Mormon mistake.

Now it is. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Welcome to being just like the rest of us.

Only through God's grace are we saved. It is obvious... if you are not within the fold, that is.

Raise your hand if you are tired of hearing again and again and again and again and again about the MMM and the book.

Those who are willing to learn the lessons from it have already done that.

Those who just want to use it to bash a group of mortals who lived 150 years ago, keep getting a platform for their opinion, which we already know in detail.

Let's move forward.

Boring... MMM... Boring... MMM... Get over it... Move on... Yawn... MMM... Let the Dead bury the dead.

It is great that the LDS church commissioned this work. I have viewed it and learned that my grandfather was a part of the militia. I hope that the truths now avaliable to all from this book will help to soften the hearts of the Arkansas decendants and healing will occur. The authors should be nominated for the Pulitizer prize for their expert handling this very sad time in US and Mormon history.

ALL historical events must be viewed within the context of their times. That doesn't mean those involved should be excused for what they did. But, it does mean that nothing happens in a vaccuum and that the entire situation must be understood and taken into account when analyzing the event.

This was a terrible event and the people who did it are certainly being held accountable for it. But, in all fairness, one must consider that this event happened within a much larger context of the times. Under normal circumstances, these people would have passed through without incident. Unfortunately, many factors came together within an environment of fear and distrust which lead to horrible choices being made and this terrible crime being committed by, otherwise, good people.

I hope this book can lead to healing and closure for everyone and we can all move on.

Those who hate still do
Those who love still do

People will take what they want from this and use it to justify, sustain, or validate what they already think. Truth is whatever validates what you already believe. Any objective work will be discounted by those whose beliefs are not being reinforced.

I am grateful for the authors that took on this project.

Why is the church trying to prove a point on the MMM and why it happened, as the book portrays? It did not quit go this way! I'm quite tired of all the lies and cover-ups on Brigham Young. He was a man who made mistakes like every other human. This has grown old.

I'm a 2 generation Mormon. I have read all the history.

The article states that "On Sept. 11, 1857, about 120 men, women and children from a wagon train were killed by members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." That sentence should be modified a bit: "...killed by EXTREMIST members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and some DISGRUNTLED Indians."

The fact of the matter is that we are all human. The context of the times is very important. Those who wish to use the MMM as a rallying point for haters will continue to do so no matter what. What is also fact is that there is absolutely no proof that the MMM was ordered by Brigham Young. Of course there will always be conspiracy theorists among us who want to discredit the Church in any way. Don't hate the haters, they too are children of God. Pray for them.

I will let God sort it out, punish the guilty and for those who were innocently killed or accused, he will have to make it up to them in some way. It is not the first time humans have made some gross errors and people have lost their lives. I am ready to move on....hope everyone else is. Somehow, the MMM keeps getting reinvented and I, for one, am dog-tired of the conspiracy theories on both sides of the issue. Leave it to God to sort out. He will.

Why put the Mormon descendants and their families through this over and over again, for the mistakes of some of their ancestors? I think it is quite unfair that the descendants feelings have been set a side while you folks continue stir this old dried up pot of bad LDS history. The anti's love this kind of stuff. It gives them more ammunition to make their filthy websites even filthier. Lets all keep throwing stones and feeding this story more hate, and beating the perpetrators descendants too death. Shameful money makers!

I think you mean mercenaries.

That's like calling members of Blackwater Security "disgruntled contractors".

Besides, "Missionaries and Mercenaries" makes a better title.

Quit protecting Brigham Young. He always had a mouth full of convincing words to blind his followers. It is obvious the man had a strong hand in this episode of Mormon history. Please quit try to pull the wool over everyones eyes with lies- It is wicked!

Nothing is new. This is just book selling. Give us something new.

Something new would be to dig up the vics and perps down there and ...

Oh, probably should dig em up in Missouri and Illinois and Gov. Boggs and ...

Give us something new or just hush.

To: Marilyn and Mumbles: There is ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE that Brigham Young had anything to do with the MMM incident. I repeat, NO EVIDENCE! The evidence is just the opposite.

You may believe anything you want to believe, but you must have the evidence to support it and the evidence just IS NOT THERE.

The church commissioned this story, right? So why does everyone think it's about bashing the church?

Sorry, I meant Marily and Rumbles.

Hey cats,
Go scratch someone else's eyes out with your malarkey. You are just a KNOW IT ALL! and a snarling cat at that.
I believe as the rest on here that B. Young had a super big hand in the massacre. Some need to get a life and quit telling lies.

correction (correction) if were going to try and modify sentences lets atleast be correct. You correction think you know so much. Indians are from india, you no knowing conformist. Native americans and Members of the LDS faith were involved in the MMM not extremists or any subcategory you wish to give inorder to deny something or give it a different face.

Rumbles | 9:23 a.m. -----

"Why is the church trying to prove a point on the MMM and why it happened, as the book portrays?"

Because blood-thirsty Mormon haters won't let it die.

"It did not quit go this way!"

You were there?

"I'm quite tired of all the lies and cover-ups on Brigham Young."

Like what?

"He was a man who made mistakes like every other human."

Then cut him some slack.

"I'm a 2 generation Mormon. I have read all the history."

You sound like a 1st generation Mormon hater. Please look in the mirror.

Hello Cat!
I think you need to go reread MMM history. You missed out on all the main events in the REAL history of this mess. Gurrrrr!

If even half of you would actually read the book it would solve alot of problems. I love how people comment who don't even bother to educate themselves.

Is this history or just more of the 150 years of lies and coverup?

Re: Cats
YOU ARE WRONG! I REPEAT-YOU ARE WRONG!!!

I read the book and it's not saying thing anymore than what I already knew. In fact, it says less.

The logical reasoning of a lot of people seems to be: "I dislike the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Therefore, it is a fact that Brigham Young ordered the MMM."

It's not disingenious to say that MMM was a result of the times so long as it's never used as an excuse to exonerate the wrong-doings.

Pre-WWII Germany/Italy/Japan fell into Nasizm/Facism/Milatarism because of the times, but what they did was wrong all the same.

That's why it's important to know exactly what happened, even given the times, to make sure such travesties never happen again regardless of the times.

As for Brigham Young 'ordering' the MMM incident, there is absolutely no proof that he did any such thing. That part of the argument is 'case closed!'

However, did Brigham Young know or strongly suspect such an incident was 'imminent?' I believe that given the 'times' and well documented hold on both communication and activity Brigham Young was privy to, there is strong indications he was not ignorant of what was about to happen.

What Brigham Young should be held more accountable for is not swiftly moving to get a courier dispatched to Souther Utah the moment any indication of trouble was brewing, which there was such indications of when the Arkansas wagon train passed through the Wasatch front. That's the point that should be addressed and thoroughly investigated.

Can we let the dead RIP now?

We never seem to get tired of hearing about the great Pioneer Trek to Utah, making the desert blossom as the rose, and any number of positive and heroic parts of our collective past. Those are important things to look at and learn from. But we can also learn from the tragic events of our history. We can't shut those out as several on this forum would have us do and only look at the comforting images of flawless pioneers. To do so is to ignore the warnings of history.

To Marlyn C,

Where is your proof? Anyone can make accusations-- sounds like that's all you are doing. What say you?

To: Brighamites,
Sorry to tell the truth about your ancestor. You can cover for him all you want. Everyone knows the truth. So my question to 1:33pm, where is your proof? The wheel spins both ways ya know?

I don't know if the moderator doesn't like my post or I'm doing something wrong but many post do not work.
One more time
1. Name one other massacre of a wagon trian full of men women and choldren by American settlers.
2. Brigham Young incited Utahns through his rhetoric.
3. He did not condemn the massacre
4. B young led a massive cover up.

As someone raised catholic I condemn the catholic church at that time for the inquisition. I think Mormons should just do the same. Comdemn the church at that time for the act and the cover up.

Fredd has it right. I have read all about it myself and I believe it to be true. Some of you need to go read Brigham Young's writings. It may surprise you about the dark side of this guy.

FACT: Whether or not B Young had prior knowledge of directly ordered the massacre may never be known.

FACT: B Young did help cover up and protect participants from prosecution and only gave up John Lee many years after the fact and under intense pressure.

Blah, blah, blah, blah. Everybody has an opinion. The important thing is that Rick Turley, et al have spent significant time researching the issues, and have recorded that research AND its findings. The wrong and the right have already been determined by the ONLY person capable of doing so . . . God. Our opinions are simply a cacophony of bickering and back-biting. Let the issue go.

Well, when you keep stirring up stuff like the M-M-M, and keep the kettle HOT continuously, of course this so called blah, blah, blah talk is going to continue. I think it comes with the package. Some people never learn how not to play with fire. This is definitely an LDS scorcher, no matter how many time people try to paint it white.

Brigham Young was not without controversy, but the existing DATA (not opinion or "everybody knows" rhetoric) indicates he sent word to let the wagon trains pass through unharmed, but the courier arrived the day after the MMM. Whether is should/could have done more is impossible to know (you have certainly guessed).

I'm not covering/justifying B.Y., but am unimpressed with all the conjecture. It's like that "miracle pill" that cures multiple diseases but is without any scientific evidence, just a bunch of anecdotes saying it works. Show FACTS.

I do condemn the actions of the participants and am ashamed it was perpetrated by members of my faith. Nothing in LDS Church doctrine could ever justify their actions, so quit making it a church action instead of that of those who acted.

We know that the priests who molested boys were not representing the will of the Catholic church when they did it. The cover up, in both cases, was where the churches erred. The crime was by the individuals.

Noble post. I would add as someone raised Catholic and now LDS that the Catholic Church as an institution is not responsible for the Inquisition. The individuals who carried it out were, and they need to repent. Same with the MMM, same with the priest scandal — the institution is not responsible because the institution itself cannot repent and be reconciled to God, that is His plan for individuals. As long as society goes after institutions and not individuals, people will miss out on the blessings of the Atonement.

I read the book and I noticed that some of the Militia men were listed as perpetrators. this was the first time I had ever heard that my ancestor was a perpetrator. Our family had never heard this before. I noticed though, that some of the ones that were often spoke of as perpetrators when I was a kid, were now suddenly not perpetrators in this new book. Somebody need to print the whole fact on these matters and not do so much guess work. What an immoral thing to do to active families of the church.

Re: Jason, I noticed some of the same remarks in the book as you did. I suppose your family will have to do their own research. Reading family diaries can be very helpful... the church doesn't have all of them.

This history is all a big farce!

Sounds like a bucket of whitewash to me.

This book is lame. I read it and I'm not impressed whatsoever. You people have no compassion for your own members. You think it's cute to shove the blame on the little guys in your church? quite disgusting!

to JA | 10:35 a.m. Sept. 12, 2008

Your post is quite incoherent. Is English your native language? If it is, you need to study up on it and practice reading your posts aloud before you actually post them.

anon,
What does your post have to do with the MMM? Some of you people need to get a life and get out of UTAH!

Yeah, i'll get out of Utah and drop my LDS membership while i'm at it. Accept for one thing, I have thousands of relatives and family here.

Everyone! get over the M. M. M. "PLEASE" No more books. They do us NO good. The LDS members have had enough of this craziness.