Clinging to belief the Mormon faith is self delusional. It requires more and more incredulity and naivete given the evidence of modern science.

I choose to follow a prophet who teaches sound principles such as Strengthening Faith in Christ and strengthening marriages. I know that following this counsel will help my family and me.

Increasing ones faith with the arrogant is hard.

Thanks... I will. Bellieving in Science over God is, in my opinion, a much better description of "self delusion." More and more scientists are finding evidence that supports relegious truths, and yes, even Mormonism, so back at you....believe what YOU will.

When one really comes to know God, and feels his love, they realize the delusion is that this life is all there is. Modern science testifies of God. Faith usually begins when when the hope in this world ends. I love being naive enough to belive there is a God in Heaven who loves me and that he is my Father. I have put my simple trust in him, and he has always answered my prayers. Thank you for letting me belive what I will. The answer comes from within, not just from evidence seen with mortal eyes. That answer is not always to remain a matter of faith. It can grow to the point of knowlege but requires to trust in that spirit that is in each of us that prompts us to do good. I will continue to hold tightly onto my faith for it has brought me more joy and happiness than I ever thought possible. My evidence is very personal and real.
Being skeptical is important, it was questioning things that brought me my answer. God bless you. I know he will.

I see that all the snapping turtles are all on here bright and early from both sides. What a bunch!

Only frauds require faith.

Re:Believe what you will

God and the Holy Ghost are Mormon's imaginary friends. You don't trust them-you trust what LDS leaders have told you is God and the Holy Ghost. You can no more show that the feelings of your heart after prayer come from God than from invisible fairies.

Believe What You will and Re: Dan,

Why do you find it worth your while to insult another person's religious beliefs?

To RE; Dan 9:29

It is so easy to link all people into one. You do not know me nor my trials or my prayers - you also do not know the answers that I as an individual have received. You do not understand my testimony and what has brought it about. I choose to believe in God and His prophets and I follow the leadership because that is what I as an American given the freedom of religion choose to do. I will not belittle you for believe that you have - please give do the same for me.

The detractors in this blog should try reading C.S. Lewis. An avowed atheist, Lewis was converted to Christianity by J.R.R. Tolkien. Read his stuff.

I find expressing my reasons why religious belief is non-sensical to be much more tolerant and less offensive than preaching that those who reject my beliefs are doomed to hell or an eternal 'degree of glory' inferior to my own. Besides I see no reason why religious belief is entitled to any respect-I certainly respect a person's choice to believe whatever they want-but I do not respect a person touting their belief as absolute truth when it can so easily be demonstrated as illogical.

To: Believe @ 7:40 & Re: Dan @ 9:29:

None of us has to justify our faith to YOU. Just because you don't believe in something doesn't mean it's not true. We believe because we've had manifestations of the truth. We have not been deluded, we have not been brainwashed, and many of us have just as much, if not more, education as you do. We are not ignorant of scientific theories. If you choose not to believe in something you can't see with your natural eyes, that's your decision. Nobody is forcing you to agree with us. Just please stop the unprovoked attacks on what we choose to do. It's entirely none of your business what each of us believes in our hearts.

faith and the promptings of the Holy Ghost may not be tangable evidence to those who choose not to believe for they are those who need rock solid hard evidence to believe any truth.I think there are many who say all is false until proven true.Belief in religion does not require knowledge;only faith.Once you define what is needed on either side of the coin,that is scienctific proof or religous faith,then you make a choice which path to follow and proceed.We can try to convert one side over to the other but bashing either by both sides is senseless.But then as people we tend to ignore the common ground and choose contention over matters pertaining to God.Where contention is,God is not.

None of us understand each other. Just quit being so judgmental.

I guess this is a good place to make a comment on the subject of faith in God and no faith in God. We (I am LDS, but "NOM" to some degree...), need to understand those that don't believe in all the church teaches (it's history also...) or don't believe in God at all (atheists). As you all know, this life leaves some pretty big question marks in our understanding of some important stuff (ie, what happens when we die?, etc.). None of us know these answers for sure. I know we use the word "know", but we really don't, we have faith. So, a word of advice:

1. Atheists have a valid viewpoint, just as much as ours. They could be right, we may disagree, but they are not stupid.
2. NOM folks, people like me, who have serious doubts about the LDS church are not stupid either. We would like to "build faith", but we NEED an honest dialogue from our leaders on the aspects of Mormon history (and some doctrine...) that are troubling. Simply pushing aside valid questions is not going to work for us.

OK, hopefully this did not offend and will get printed.

The problem Sarah is it isn't simply 'in your heart'. You teach all those around you that the things you believe are absolute truth based on the interpretation of things you have labeled as 'spiritual' even though you haven't established the validity of that methodology. (Certainly you are educated, but so are numerous believers of numerous other faiths-it simply demonstrates the ability of the brain to compartmentalize.) Your children and grandchildren and others under your religious influence will vote according to the mandates of your religion based on this indoctrination and they will convince themselves and others that they will suffer in torment in the after-life for disobeying your religion's edicts-that is a huge impact and so yes, it should be scrutinized and even demeaned if found to be based on unreasonable assumptions.

Faith in what? When Mormons have 'faith' that the sensations following prayer are from God they are having faith in the guy who told them that was the case. Such a manipulative process easily allows the proponent of such a faith-based test to lead people to the conclusion the proponent desires. It is not a matter of personal preference but a matter of misleading and manipulating.

To Tolerance,

Your approach is reasonable in that it places both believers and nonbelievers on a level playing field. In reality, atheists are NOT on the same playing field with believers. Believers are trying to convince nonbelievers to change their beliefs. Atheists (at least the ones I hang out with) are NOT trying to convince believers of anything. Believers feel an obligation to "spread the gospel". Atheists only try to convince believers they are wrong AFTER believers have already tried to force their own beliefs on us!

Yaaawwwwn.

The atheists on this thread are absolutely trying to convince believers they are wrong.

There must be Mormons out there somewhere who try and force their beliefs on others but I have never seen it. Offering information and asking the person to decide for themselves is not force.

To those who are struggling with doctrine, I can tell you from personal experience that patience, faith and in depth study can bring very solid answers with time. I love to study science, especially physics and astronomy, to help elaborate on the truths of the gospel. I don't need them but it is exciting to see the perfection of the gospel.

As far as I'm concerned your all wrong. I cannot believe any of you.

All religions through out history have had one true thing in common.

They are all based on Theory. Nothing else.

My own personal theory about God is as good as anybody else. I don't need to prove it, because nobody else will be able to prove their theory.

My family could not be happier and in tune with the earth and nature. Bless you all.

No, sending 60,000 missionaries into the world is not forcing anything on anybody. They invite. Big difference that obviously escapes you.

Mormons want to preserve the definition of marriage as it has been for thousands of years. Changing that definition will inevitably change civilization, and not for the better. All groups of people, including religious, have the right to advocate legislation they believe to be in the best interests of their respective nations.

Not all atheists are organizing media campaigns, but some of them are (Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, and the like who are writing their books).

The most tedious thing about your posts is that you are always whining. It's dull and it's boring. Can't you find something interesting to say?

faith is very personnal...experience is for the individual...and we all know that you don't discuss politics or religion with out arguement...lets all be happy for each other..

Eichendorff is right. Its funny to see people come out of the wood-work when religion is mentioned. I love to talk to people about religion but not in the manner like this. Mormons teach by the spirit and offer the other person to pray and find out for themselves. You can't argue about this because us Mormons leave it upto others to find out for themselves (we invite w/ no preasure). If you hate us Mormons, I'm sorry but we don't hate you. Say what you will but we have heard it all and I love reading the Book of Mormon and the Bible together. My testimony is strong even during my hard times. What ever religion you are, be the best at it, love others and show respect for them. I love you all and hope you find Christ where He might be.

Derrick

Some of you Mormon, folks on here are NOT living correct principles. I'm ashamed that you are members of the church. You folks better get it together soon or be smitten down in the end.

Alma Chapter 32 invites us to "experiment" to learn the Truth. This is one of the Great Chapters of the
Great Book of Alma in the Book of Mormon. The Holy Bible also has many chapters and verses, such as James 1:5 that enocurage us to learn for Ourselves the truth.

The need here is to be "OPEN MINDED" in order to get a new answer. If you already have "chosen" a stance or position, then the Power of Revelation might not penetrate the Walls of "I already know".

Prayer works best when we let God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit DO the conveyance of New Information.
(Let them DO IT!!)

A scientist (If he's truely following the Scientific
Process) knows that he cannot have PRE-determined
ideas dominate, IF he is to learn NEW Information.

God Bless. Try Prayer, It might Just Work for You...

I did not know, and am now ashamed that Jimmy the psychic has the ability to discern whether we are good or bad people, solely based on our posts to this article. Wow! I am in awe!

Your argument is flawed. You claim to teach by the spirit and invite someone to make their own decision, but when the spirit tells them you are wrong you claim it is the wrong spirit. It's all nonsense. There is no spirit telling people right from wrong. It's your own mind convincing you that what you want to be true is true.

All I can say Mr. Psychic, you are playing to hard with the devil on here and he's eventually going to get you and Jimmy. Good luck to you both. I'm happy that I'm not in your shoes. Try to be happy and share your thoughts and love one another.

I really enjoyed the Regional Conference. I am so thankful the Holy Ghost testified to me that what I was hearing was true. My life is blessed and better because of what I heard. I am so grateful Heavenly Father has provide a way for us to hear in our hearts when there can be so many detractor that lie in wait to deceive.

I am sorry for the written static and interference that has distracted some.

In my time on this earth I have never seen the type of response that is given when you have an LDS member comment on Faith and the non-believers jump on trying to prove something by scientific inquiry. From what I have read about the LDS, they invite others to put into pratice the teachings they offer and then see for yourself if the truth is there. As a biomedical scientist that works in the field of discovery, it is quite evident to all scientists that we continue to discover how much we don't know. Be very carefull about saying that somehting is not true because you cannot touch it, see it or smell it. This will become the next great discovery. The LDS do have the Word of Wisdom that was given long before there was scientific evidence to prove or disprove these teachings. I have always been interested in this one doctrine although I am still trying to learn about the LDS faith. Regarding whether or not there is a God, scientific evidence indicates that life in general is much complex and the random chance that this all came together is slim. You might want to reconsider.

To the one who asked Faith in What? and made the comment in so many words that faith is really faith in the messenger.Its true what you have said but I want to add this: A good missionary of the Gospel will say "Don't just accept it because I say its true. Gain your own testimony." My friend its the only way.Those who are accepting this church today are those who choose to follow a different path of thinking and logic,much different than the skeptic.I have many non lds friends who I share the gospel with and not try and convert them to it.

I agree with Derrick whole heartily. Where is this so called spirit you people are talking about? The feelings of sensations that I feel, that all humans feel, like sadness and happiness are both quite mind boggling. But, I don't see any "ghost" attached to these feelings...... Now that getting scary. Why must religion be mysterious and strange?

Faith without works is dead.

Some want the their leaders to just give them the answers.

But it doesn't work that way.

Just like science you must do your own study, research, read, ponder.

This why this why faith and religion take great intellect and effort.

While atheism is the easy way, it take no efffort to NOT believe, to belittle others, and they do all this based on their OWN opinion.

With atheism there is no right or worng, no moral absolutes, no purpose, no direction, no place to go, no growth, no point, no hope.

what miserable place,

It's all about whatever you make it to be, that is living and believing in fairytales,

the only difference is it your own making.

As RE:TO DERRICK has said: it's is your own mind convincing you what you want to be true as true.

The honest truth is atheism is just another system of beliefs, a religion.

Latter day saints need to sit back and listen to the concerns of those who dont share the same beliefs with them,not try to convert them but only share with those who are willing to listen,that which you know is true.Never judge a person for his beliefs,never tell him he is wrong because he may be actually in agreement but saying it in a way that is not familiar in LDS society.We must respect all. To do that best is to understand even if we disagree.

Pres. Uchtdorf is such an awesome and spiritual giant. This coming weekend is our televised multi-stake conference and I am really looking forward to going. I always find that certain messages pertain to me, individually and I'm grateful for that.

I know that Heavenly Father is mindful of all of His children, including the LDS and everyone else. He delights in our talents and our abilities and the good that we do. As an active LDS person, I sure hope that I am an example of goodness and kindness to those I meet. I'm sorry that some of you don't like LDS people. We are just humans doing the best we can and we make mistakes but most of us are trying to be good people.

No, the Holy Ghost or Spirit is not just a product of our imaginations. But there is no argument or explanation I can give you that you would understand, because until you experience it for yourself, you have nothing to compare it to.

A man was once asked to explain the taste of salt to a theoretical other who had never tasted it. He couldn't do it. You can say what it isn't, you can make some rough comparisons, but you can't accurately explain it without that shared experience.

I presume that everyone is right on this blog. I see no reason to disagree with any of you. You ALL have a right to see things from you own personal point of view. This is what makes humans so extremely interesting. We all sit in our individual little boxes and groups as well, with different thoughts and ideas, and always trying to get others to see our own personal view of why we ALL exist.

As an ex-LDS member and Church leader I have to tell you one of the hardest things to handle when you choose to leave the Church is the fact that somehow I lost most of my LDS friends as well. For some reason being LDS means that you cant respect another’s reason for no longer wanting to be LDS. This in itself is an added reason never to come back to a people who are so self righteous and judgmental.

Anonymous | 12:37 p.m. ----

"Believers feel an obligation to "spread the gospel." Atheists only try to convince believers they are wrong AFTER believers have already tried to force their own beliefs on us!"

As you draw closer to the time when you will "hang it up, you will feel differently about the issue.

Atheists have a testimony of being an atheist. They don't care for the phony fairy tales that some believe in-- live and let live.

this board is the epitome of internet silliness. nobody is going to convince anybody else, and yet they persist. i don't care if people share my beliefs or not, my only issue is that the call to "strengthening testimony" will probably result in even more absurd melodramatic testimonies in church. and that could in fact weaken my faith.

"Be Nice" has a very good point in that many LDS that I know find it difficult to interact with others in their community that do not share their same faith. They are almost lost in discussions that don't revolve around the church. I do feel bad that this individual has lost some friends he thought he had. His decision is his alone to leave the LDS Church but those friends need to take a long look at their motives.

As i know lds ppl only really nice to own members and would be members.One thing i am not agree is the missionaries and members of the church kind of forcing and chasing potential would be member with their care and kindness.They would call almost everyday,even if the person never answers.Once they got the phone number,they would hold the person fastly.I do hope they can respect other ppl choise .

I rather enjoy contending earnestly for the Faith that was passed down to the saints, I like to fight the good fight!
This is good training, it increases my faith. Helps me to know what I believe and why I believe. One commenter said, “Where contention is, God is not.”
I find that to be untrue in my experience. God lets trails in various colors to increase your faith, He allows contention, and sometimes times of peace.

Those of you who believe it is all fairy tales.

You better really hope that you q43 are not wrong on this one,

Because the consequences of being wrong on this one are enormous.

So a descision here needs to be done with very serious and careful consideration and deliberation, it could very well have eternal ramifications.

And that as an atheist you must put your trust and belief in the words of men who do not know you and do not care about you and whose science is based mostly on assumptions particularly in nature, biology, geology, And their limited knowledge is based on very limited perspective.

For example a mountain may take millions of years to form if nature is left to itself.

But can science prove that has been the case?

I believe not.

Evolution is based on the big assumption there have been splits in the evolutionary tree, very convenient but absolutely impossible to prove.

So who to put your faith in?

People leave religion for all sorts of reasons, like some were treated badly by someone and some didn't get answers their questions.

But have you ever considered: people are imperfect and most just don't-know-the-answers?

Most of you are just rattling off words that make no sense! Get a life!

As a scientist you should know better than to suggest that accepting premises simply because they can't be disproven or because they might be shown true 'someday'. Intelligent design, which you allude to, is a scientific joke, it is a nothing theory, no better than saying magic fairies created life.

I've experienced 'the Spirit' and it can't be demonstrated to be anything more than human imagination. When one tastes salt we have a chemical compound that we can point to as the cause of the sensation-there is no 'spiritual waves' that we can look at or evaluate with instrumentation and the most likely source is self-induced epiphany. To attribute the strong emotions after prayer to a spirit is just as absurd as attributing to any other unseen, undetected phenomenon-like invisible magic fairies, green aliens zapping you with cosmic rays, or a host of other imaginable absurdities