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Utah doctors say industry must share blame

Several factors contribute to the hyper-inflation of the medical marketplace. First of all, an aging population (not enough babies being born), means the population of the US (and much of the world) is excaberated by the fact that there is an anti-baby, anti-birth, pro-abortion and pro-contraceptive coalition. We are committing civilational suicide. Diseases and conditions will always be more prevalent the older one gets. So a society with an aging population (due to the 'birth dearth') will have overall escalating costs. (see next post)

Dr. Jarvis is dead on when he says health care is not a commodity. In economics we have gotten some other things wrong as well. Karl Polanyi in "The Great Transformation" documents the evils of thinking that labor and land are commodities. They aren't. The only proper commodities are products produced for sale. Human beings (labor) and services which are matters of life and death for humans beings (health care) are not commodities and require special protection. Way to go, doc!

Yet people of the US still think they have the best system in the world. I live in Canada after 54 years in the US, and the Canadian system delivers health care to everybody, and our statistics of longevity are better than the US with far less spent on healthcare per person. My wife gave birth to two children in the US system, and when our daughter gave birth in Canada she received the same kind of treatment. Look north US and learn.

What makes bearing the outrages prices even more difficult to swallow is that the procedures they pay for often don't work. After numerous surgeries, I'm 50k in the hole and permanently disabled.

Only positive result of my experiences with these docs? Now I'm in law school.

I'm glad to hear that doctors understand our perverse system. Now we need to get patients to unite and demand change. After all is said and done -- all health care is paid for by the people -- not government, not insurance carriers, and not business. It is time for "the people" to demand a more sensible system.

So, what other places have better health care than the U.S.A?

From dilgentdave's first post, I take it that medical costs in Europe should be much higher as ours, since they have a much older population.
Obviously, that's not true. They pay considerably less, and for better care.

Isn't it ironic that the healthcare industry is killing us all?!

As a retired pediatrician of 7 years, I also look at and mourn the condition of current medicine--both quality and cost. I consider myself lucky to have practiced my decades in a time when the doctor himself gave the medical care, bonded to the patient and his/her needs, and ran a business that was efficiently beneficial to the patient, the community, and to himself. Maybe a bit naive--but it was a great era.

Medical costs are rising, enabled and abetted by medical and legal professionals. Insurance companies also bear responsibility because they have overpromised and underdelivered services. When I go to a doctor's office with a loved one, I sit among people who are not sick but are getting unnecessary procedures and follow-up appointments. My own medical care is covered by the VA since I am a disabled Vietnam Veteran. I also use lots of natural food supplements which have enabled me to stop using 8 different kinds of prescription drugs. I feel wonderful, have lost over 50 lbs. and only go to the doctor for my semi-annual mental and physical checkups. Doctors are some of the world's best salesmen and the American Public has been conned into the idea that they need to consult a physician about every little unimportant problem. If people would seek out more holistic solutions and learn to help themselves with insignificant problems there would be no overcrowded hospitals. Doctors could then help sick people instead of pandering to hypochondriacs.

I believe that the single most significant problem in US health care is the underlying fact that "health care" is focussed on remedies--not prevention.

Valid scientific research results already demonstrate that the biggest killers (heart disease, cancer)are driven by nutritional factors. The major one being whether people choose to eat animal flesh or not. The alternative, plant based diets, has been PROVEN, in study after study, to dramatically reduce rates of both diseases.

Yes, the medical profession is at fault, but so are those who continue to defy/deny daily food choices.

Of course the system is ineffective. What else could you expect from a system that is constructed to make profit rather than to deal with health problems. It is not a question whether the failure of the system will lead to the question of civilized (aka socialized) medicine. The problem is that the nation has prioritized profit for health and given the democratic control of the health system to the health industry. The problem is not wether this will lead to a demand for civilized health, the problem is that the country does not have civilized healh.

I hope this signals a move to an intelligent discussion over health care.

Certainly one thing to question is the use of insurance... any insurance (especially a government insurance program like Obama is promoting). Insurance companies put a huge sponge between the provider and the consumer. Automatically prices rise as the consumer is not in charge of the process. A good number of treatments would not be sought if the buyer had to make an intelligent decision rather than saying "the insurance will pay for it." They would also shop doctors and hospitals and make better selections. Doctors would be forced to compete for customers and tighten up on scheduling (fewer delays and wasted time waiting) and office procedures. The supplier would be more accountable to the buyer by eliminating the middleman or intermediator.

THis "birth-death" is especially true in Russia. #1 form of contraception is abortion. They are experiencing 16 deaths to every 11 births. Their population has declined from 150 million to 130 million (the US is at 304 million).

Can anyone name 18 other countries that provide "higher quality and better outcomes" that they would rather be treated in? I can't name one. Health care is expensive anywhere you go either in taxes or straight from the pocket. Others systems have many problems that are not addressed in this column

Canada is a great place however, you told the US to "Look north and learn" and only gave the example of child birth, the most natural medical condition in the world. You failed to mention the huge, inflated taxes that Canada pays and you didn't give any examples of real health care for other medical conditions. You also didn't explain why Canadians come to the U for better treatment. Please get your facts straight before you light off on your hate for the US.

I've been to Europe. I've worked in Europe for years. Been in many homes in Europe. I've witnessed everyone being treated for something. It was crazy, pharmacies on almost every corner. Lines out the door every day for folks getting medication...cause it was free. People had not 1 or 2 bottles, but 6,7, and sometimes 8 bottles of pills. I don't think its accurate to say its better and cheaper in Europe. I would say its more quantity than anything.

I think for there to be meaningful change in the cost and quality of healthcare drastic changes will have to be made-many which will seem 'cold-hearted' but which will be necessary to acheive meaningful results:
1. There must be a complete focus on prevention of all disease. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure and our current system rewards companies for finding the pound of cure more than the ounce of prevention.
2. We must be willing to accept that certain treatments are not worth it-particularly when treatments provide minimal extension of life at enormous cost. We seem to have a permanent denial of death in our country-sometimes we have to come to grips with the reality of a terminal condition and not feel an entitlement to have everything thrown at it. Just as we accept higher speed limits than 5 MPH can turn into a fatality but improve the quality of life we must accept that by focusing on preventive medicine and reducing cost we may find ourselves with an untreatable disease that we will have to accept.

We say we want innovation, new technology, cures for diseases and yet the traditions of our fathers prevent us from doing the surgery that is needful to make the healthcare system what it needs to be. Hanging on to old ideas when the world has changed is idiotic. We must redesign the way we deliver health care and how it is financed. This will affect everyone but universal coverage, removed from the employer-provided system is the only way. You can't hold on to the old while pining for the new. You can't hold on to the old if you care about your fellow citizens and realize you personally are only one health or employment crisis away from financial disaster.

I want to vote Republican, but they appear to be "good old boys" when it comes to making the radical changes that we need. I don't want to elect Obama because I don't think he's the right leader for our country and it has nothing to do with his race - but he is the only candidate who recognizes this is the direction we need to go. Republicans could come up with a better system than simply government controlled. Do it!

pay much higher taxes and let some pointy headed bureaucrat make our medical decisions and hope that our condition puts us on the "you get to do it now" list at the end of the fiscal year. I've read newspaper accounts of discussions in Canada about how to make the waiting lists fairer (not how to shorten the length of time like and evil capitalist would explore) and I've had family members in Europe wait for surgery because the condition was non-life threatening and there was no more money. The Europe experience was especially heartbreaking because of the disfigurement that resulted because the surgery was not done immediately. We need to fix our system, but the Canadian and European models are not the place to look for solutions.