Deseret News | Reader comments: Utah Jazz: Accept it! The Bulls deserved the series

Reader comments
Utah Jazz: Accept it! The Bulls deserved the series

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Pain | 12:44 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

hey thanks for bringing this up yet again.

Jazz fan in Hawaii | 1:19 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

This is a ridiculous article. A two bucket swing for the bulls and that is evidence that there was no tampering? Touch calls, even grabs or pushes are one thing, but shot clock violations that were clearly discernible to everyone not wearing stripes does not make the loss easier to swallow. I can "accept" that MJ was an amazing player and I can "accept" that he made the shot when it counted. I can even "accept" that the "push-off" is somewhat questionable, but the 6 point swing? No. Whether it was a conspiracy or scandal I won't know till I'm dead and I apply to Gods' sports archives, but it was a mistake and the game would have been different had a replay or better official been available.

We was robbed | 1:35 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

This article just exposes a bigger problem....the NBA star system. If it this complicated to explain why the Jazz weren't ripped off, then the refs lost control in the NBA a long time ago. The most laughable part of the article is the reference to Rodman trying to cause havic in the games. So these refs that are getting the benefit of the doubt in the article... can't call the game or pull it off technically when Rodman would enter the games? He breaks their mental focus to call a normal game. This article just gives me another reason not to get sucked in the NBA again like I did in the 80's and 90's. The league is one big overpriced, overhyped product creating millionaires out of individuals-- most of whom don't deserve it or put their lives on the line for anything of importance.

Comments continue below

gf | 2:06 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

So four college refs are going to give us the definitive answer to the question? To many National media studies have put that finals in one of the top 10 worst in history. By the way, a series is best of seven, not best of one.

NBA is a joke | 5:51 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

Until they stop catering to the "star" players, and by star, I mean the names bringing in the money, the NBA will never be an example of fair play. The way things are set up now, it teaches kids that the better you are the less the rules apply to you. Rookies are always getting called for stuff you would never see called on an all-star. A FOUL IS A FOUL NO MATTER WHO DOES IT!! And as far as setting up series, just look at the Laker Celtic series. Everybody knew it was going to be these two teams before the playoffs even started because that was the money maker for the NBA.

lew | 6:49 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

He pushed off Russell

Pundit | 7:03 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

This is possibly the dumbest article this paper has ever run.

g | 7:13 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

give it up... this was 10 years ago. move on.

Re: lew | 7:16 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

Even if the Jazz win this one, they would have still lost the series in the other hypothetical games... Get over it Jazz fans. That's the closest you'll ever get.

mac | 7:21 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

That game was the one that finished the NBA for me. I've not watched even one quarter of an NBA game since, and I used to be a huge fan. I just realized after that game that it was rigged and no more honest, in the end, than pro wrestling. Donaghy's revelations just confirmed what I already knew.

I still like basketball, particularly college ball, but I'm not interested in the NBA fakery and there's no likelihood of me ever coming back, either.

sob | 7:30 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

anybody notice how refreshing it is to see kobe getting called the same as raul lopez in bejing.
glad to see us winning but enjoy everybody being called the same more.

JD | 8:01 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

It's unclear who initiated contact? Hmmm. . .

Most of us realize that it's over, that the Bulls won, whether it was fair or not, and have moved on with our lives. That is not to say that we don't still talk about it from time to time. Who wouldn't talk about it if it were their team in the Finals?

Officials can say what they like, and we will still continue to discuss it, because it is our team.

It seems to be the Deseret News sportswriters who just can't let it go. Most of us are content to discuss the "what ifs" privately, and we lament only that things seem to have deteriorated so far that we are now surprised when Kobe DOESN'T get the call.

Up Chuck for Amy | 8:18 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

Are you kidding me? What possessed you to write a piece bereft of any real insight? Stick to the high school stuff - it's more your league.

cmon Amy | 8:37 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

Thanks for settling...Nothing.

Re sob | 8:41 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

It is refreshing to see kobe have to play like everyone else, and not get the call when somebody is close to him. Deron Williams , Lebron, Wade they seem to get better in this type of game...... Boozer ????????

dear amy | 9:17 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

I think any day now, the colonies may announce a "declaration of independence" from england. Could you please write an article about that and other recent events.

Ahhhhh | 9:43 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

This goes to all you whiners who continue to cry and protest against the NBA, do you think they really care that you won't watch another game? You are one in a million and you aren't going to convince one person to quit watching, so give it up, go in your room and never come out so the rest of us don't have to listen to you pathetic comments.

gf | 9:50 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

Linda Hamilton wrote an article on August 18 2007 where former NBA ref Mike Mathis said Jordan pushed off. It referenced an article in the New York Post.

The Post quoted Mathis as saying, in criticizing NBA officiating, "Remember when Jordan hit that winning shot? I'm going to give you exactly what the commentators said: 'What a great move by Michael.' Was that a great move or was that an offensive foul? There was no question it was a push-off. No buts about it. The only buts you can have is, 'Well, it was Michael Jordan.' That was a defining moment

Dan Paystrup | 9:56 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

I can't even believe you wrote this. Did you watch that game? The best team did not win!!!!! In game fixing the game is called or played pretty fair for the most part, untill one or two calls or plays can change the game.
It was all there.

Of Course they Deserved it | 10:09 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

You better win if you're playing 8 on 5(With the Refs). Or should it be 9 on 5 if you count Emperor Stearn.

lost in DC | 10:10 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

obviously the Bulls' fans and NBA are still feeling guilty about the theft that occurred in 1997. Why would they bring it up, otherwise?

six championships | 10:21 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

the bulls would have won game seven. you're not going to beat jordan before he beats you.

Dustin | 10:30 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

So, what exactly were the calls that went in favor of the Jazz??? Nowhere in the article did it mention a specific instance that the Jazz got the benefit of a call. More fouls were called on Rodman than Malone - that is supposed the appease me???

And to the person that commented that the Jazz would not have won Game 7 - One, Scottie Pippen would not have played in that game as has been documented, and Two shame on you for missing the bigger picture!! Jazz fans may have been robbed of a possible championship, but humanity was robbed of maybe the greatest game to ever be played. A Game 7, in the Delta Center, with everything on the line and MJ on the other side. For as much publicity Game 6 gets, Game 7 would have been the Greatest Game ever played.

Anonymous | 10:49 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

I can't believe you wrote this because it happened over 10 years ago. Isn't there anything else going on in sports right now. If you were a real journalist you would probably be writing about something a little more up to date than this.

homeytennis | 11:19 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

They forgot to add the part about how Bavetta brings cookies for Phil Jackson (this came out in the Donaghy scandal). The appearance of impropriety is pretty huge.

Lost in TX | 11:30 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

This has to be one of the worst articles I have ever read. I feel like I am being fed what the NBA wants me to believe. Terrible reporting.

It's funny how certain circles keep trying to convince us that something wasn't up with game six.

Game six is only one example of the cheating that goes on in the NBA. Try the Mavs/Heat finals. The Mavs are clearly the better team until suddenly Wade goes to the free throw line a ridiculous number of times. Game seven of the Lakers/Kings conference finals is another example. Funny how Bavetta was reffing that game, too.

The NBA definitely has games where the referring changes the outcome. It almost keeps me from watching at all. If I didn't love the Jazz so much I would give it up completely. Stern needs to go and so do all the refs.

Zeke | 11:44 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

I saw the ballgame and I know we were robbed. The officals cost the Jazz at least five points plus there were several fouls that were not called on Jordon going down the stretch. But there is nothing that can be done about it so why bring it up. It only pours salt into the wounds.

who cares? | 11:48 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

How long ago did this happen?

Who Cares? and Why? | 12:33 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

I don't care about the Jordan push off, no ref would have called that. But I don't recall ever seeing a shot clock violation being called the wrong way in an NBA game, ever. I know it's happened, I just don't think I've ever seen another- to make 2 in what could be Jordan's last game by the most suspicious ref in the NBA (according to an espn outside the lines expose that aired about 3 months ago) has to raise suspicion in anyone capable of reasoning for themselves. So who cares? and Why? I care because I love basketball and I don't want the highest level of the game to be tainted or destroyed by corruption. Think I'm paranoid? Look what has happened to boxing over the last twenty years; it used to be the most popular sport in the US, now boxing is dead because of corruption. My personal opinion is Bavetta is a company man and a self promoter, he acted alone in making a conscious decision to push the game in favor of the Bulls because he wanted to get more prestige. So I care and people who love basketball should care.

steve-o | 12:49 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

I have believed the NBA to be unfairly called (to the benefit of the almighty dollar)ever since game 6.

No official, no reporter, noonne! will ever change my mind, if you can't believe what you see with your own eye's then YOU... are.... sheep!!! (but at least you have a lot of company)

Keith | 1:07 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

I replayed that final Michael Jordan basket literally hundreds of time, frame by frame on a professional tape editing bay. Jordan clearly pushed off on Bryon Russell to stop himself and to get Russell out of the way.

My gripe has never been one about conspiracy, but of the shear stupidity of calling plays a different way for "stars" than for the regular shlub just trying to earn a living. To allow someone of Jordan's calibre, with his talent, to get away with traveling, pushing off and myriad other offenses demeans his talent, and nearly places the NBA in the same category with professional wrestling. I have lost patience with that general attitude among officials and their employers. The NBA holds little interest for me anymore, and I'm sure I am not alone.

cloudking | 1:23 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

If the ref's would have would have counted Eisley's 3 point shot Jordan's last shot wouldn't have made a difference. If the Jazz would have won that game they would have won the championship and the league didn't want that to happen. Who care's about the push off which was a offensive foul the big thing was the shot clock violations.

Re: gf @ 2:06 am | 1:58 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

Their evidence may not be the most definitve. But at least they made an attempt to objectify the ordeal. What? Jazz fans don't think there were calls in that series that Bulls fans could take issue with? The only reason you don't hear anything about it is because the Bulls won. Losing teams and their fans many times seek extreme conclusions to justify their team's shortcomings. Hence, the unproven conspiracy theories.

Call it corny, an unneccesary retread, whatever you want, I'll take the Dnews attempts at objectivity in this case over the opinions of a bunch of sulking, biased fans.

Re: Keith | 2:27 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

Keith, although I agree that officiating in the NBA is lacking, I do pose one question to you: if you're not interested in the NBA any more, then why are you reading articles about it?

If this errant call were to occur in an artificial Game 7 of this series, I'd pay more attention to the fact the Jazz should have won the game. Fact is, if they did force a Game 7, I wouldn't have given the Jazz good odds at all. The Bulls were completely unstoppable at home. We sound like Suns fans when we whine about the "missed" calls of yesterday, so let's bury the past.

Re:Re: gf | 2:39 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

I will take the NBA refs opinion.

dave | 3:06 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

the harper shot clock (non)violation too close to call. bavetta messed up on the three pointer. it was the only egregious call in the game, and you Jazz fans have a right to be upset about it, but that stuff happens. deal.

rockets94/08 | 3:36 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

I find it hilarous that Jazz fans are complaining about this. There is a reason the Jazz have always been a mediocore road team but a dominant home team. The Refs have always favored the Jazz in the Salt Dome or where ever there playing now. Malone was one of the all time great hackers but never got called for it in Utah.
As a Rockets fan I still remember your shot clock official sitting on the time clock at the end of a close playoff game in '94 with the Rockets up and the Jazz with the ball. He didn't start the clock for a full 10 seconds after the ball went into play. If the Refs have favored any team over the years the Jazz would definitely be on that list.

Rockets? | 4:51 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

How big a loser do you have to be to bring up the Rockets? Do the people manning the scorers' table in Houston give the games there to the Jazz?

I love John Stockton.

Jazzaholic | 5:27 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

It wasn't just the Eisley and Harper shot calls (a 6 point swing), the MJ foul or the RodWoman's antics, Scottie PeaBrain (back) probably couldn't have answered the bell for the next game. It was just the missed opportunity and MJ's tenacity, which swung the series.

No use fretting about it, stuff happens and the margin of victory is frequently small. Regroup and try again.

Jazzaholic

Horrible! | 5:44 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

Memo to the Deseret News:
Get over it!
This was the most stupid article I have ever wasted time reading. Besides the subpar writing and weak research, it was just plain stupid. Please make better choices when it comes to news. No wonder you guys are in trouble.

jcs | 5:55 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

This article is ridiculous. The writer said the 3 point shot taken away from Eisley made no difference in the game. If they would have checked further, they would have seen a 2 point shot given to Harper when the shot clock had clearly run down. If these two calls would have been made correctly, Jordan's shot would not have mattered. How often do you see a shot clock violation missed and 2 in one game. Come on. Everyone knew the Lakers and Celtics were going to be in this years finals especially after David Stern made the comment about how great it would be for the NBA if the Lakers and Celtics were in the finals. I rest my case. Treat every team and every player the same. The NBA is going to lose a lot more fans than it already has if this kind of stuff continues to go on. A lot of it is so obvious. The championship was stolen from the Jazz and nothing will change that. and RE: Kieth, game 7 would have been played in Utah as was game 6, so it didn't really matter how unstoppable the Bulls were at home.

casual fan | 7:31 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

This was years ago. Anybody who still thnks about this at all either has a problem or not enough to do.

Jazz fans | 8:13 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

Why wright this article, this is the conspiracy theory capital of the world. No matter what you say you will never change the minds of all the hateres here in Utah.

David Farnsworth | 8:45 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

The responder to Keith claims that the game would not have mattered because in the Seventh game, "the Bulls were completely unstoppable at home." Except that the Seventh game was going to be played in Utah, NOT Chicago. MJ could not have pulled off two straight wins in Utah, not even with Dennis Rodman in hack-man support.
And THAT'S why we Jazz fans are still irritated after all these years...

Bulls were the best team | 9:03 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

Sorry Jazz fans, but the Bulls were the best team and they won. Michael Jordan, not Karl Malone nor John Stockton, is the best player ever (although LeBron may give him a run...). It was a tough loss and the closest the Jazz ever got to winning it all, but the Bulls won and deserved it.

So why bring it up? | 9:36 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

So why do these topics keep coming up? Every year we talk about the old games that seem fixed, and we have new games that seem fixed (the jazz/lakers series). Why are there so many games in question if there is no problem? I don't recall NFL or MLS or NHL having such an abundance of conspiracy theories and angry fans because of fishy officiating. Even MLB, which has prevalent drug problems and even players betting on games hasn't raised the same level of ire as the NBA. Ever since Stern took over and adopted the position of the NBA as a business and not a sport, the entire league has taken on a questionable hue. Check the time lines.

It stinks, and you know it. If you are denying it, then you are probably a Laker/Bulls/Spurs fan. Just with the admitted fact of Super Stars recieving preferential treatment is a testament to what I'm saying, and what we all know. It's a business, not a sport.

this is bull | 9:47 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

The bulls stole the 98 series, it is obivious to anyone who can see, the nba is a star run league,and the only way a team can win a championship is to have an all star. The Jazz were by far a better team, but, not enough for Jordans allstarness, as you could call it.
There were 2 shots that made a big difference that cost the game first off Eisley's 3 with 3 seconds left on the shoot clock that was waved off, then pippen's 3 that was shot about 3 seconds after the shoot clock had ran out. That is 6 points that cost the game, to poor refing, and the Jazz only lost that game by 2, so as i see it the refs favored the bulls, if you don't believe me go watch the tape of it again. The deseret news shouldn't put this article in here, if they didn't do the right research on it.

Great Story | 10:21 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

Utah needs more pro sports so the writers have something to do during the off season

a consolation prize? | 10:55 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

No matter which "side" of the issue we each choose, one thing I've felt in the years since this happened: Utah did receive a consolation prize from all this, (though I'd rather have seen them win the series!). Utah was put in the national spotlight in a generally positive light, in spite of "losing" the series, and we have received a lot of positive attention. I know people who have become Jazz fans because of that game. Even if it was fairly called by the refs, it still highlighted some realities which may have brought about positive change. Jordan is not the only player to receive special handling by officials and the NBA (see the book "Jordan Rules"), but he may be the most visible, and I believe that has changed the game for the better. And, if Utah HAD won, would Chicago fans have gone through the video tapes of the game(s) and accused the refs of robbing Chicago of the chance to become nearly immortal in basketball history? I really don't think so. We Jazz fans should show some class. Let that game go. Can't we find something more recent to complain about?

Oh, Come On... | 11:30 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

... this is a pointless debate.

Fact 1: Jordan is hands-down acknowledged as the greatest player of all times. Losing to him is no shame.

Fact 2: We *currently* have no evidence the referee tampering existed anywhere beyond one rogue official. Innocent until proven guilty, people.

Fact 3: Had the Jazz made better decisions earlier in the series and/or Game 6, they might well have won those games and the series itself. There would have never been "The Shot," and it'd be the Bulls fans STILL whining about getting robbed by dirty ol' John and Karl. It's sad but true: The Jazz shot themselves in the foot any number of times. The Bulls took advantage. That's the way the ball bounces, people.

Fact 4: THIS WAS TEN YEARS AGO. Even if the Jazz got jobbed, what could possibly be done about it now? Time to MOVE ON and hope for just as good with D-Will and the Jazz NOW--if not better.

That's why this is a non-issue. Let's get a grip and stop living in the past.

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