Reader comments: He said, she said: Critics take a Mars-vs.-Venus look at 'Dark Knight,' 'Mamma Mia'
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Thanks Erica | 1:06 a.m. July 18, 2008
I like having a woman's point of view. I must admit, I would have seen this particular movie even if Erica hated it, but that may not be true for all movies.
Continue Mars vs. Venus on movies....
Continue Mars vs. Venus on movies....
Sarah | 4:09 a.m. July 18, 2008
I haven't seen Mamma Mia yet, though I'd like to. But I have, however, seen Batman, and let me tell you, that's one of the best movies I've seen in a very long time. I hate superhero movies (with the exception of about half the Batman films and Ironman), and I'm not crazy about big action films, because I like there to be a decent story and good writing in a film, but this movie was fantastic. It's well worth seeing, though I agree that it's not a child's movie. Teens'll love it, though.
Comments continue below
Anonymous | 7:04 a.m. July 18, 2008
The cheese could eat you if you don't hide from the custard pie
Basketkase | 8:26 a.m. July 18, 2008
So I guess this new Batman movie is "dark." Very dark. It's so dark that it deserves an R-rating for its darkness, because darkness is offensive and deserves to be rated R. It's dark. That's what I gathered. This is a dark movie. Dark. Like the finest European chocolate, it's dark. How about using a word that actually means something and is descriptive. Dark? Yeah, you got that point across. But besides being dark, how was the film? I'm afraid I won't be able to see the screen in all that darkness. You watch movies in the dark, so all movies should be rated R for their darkness. Movies, because of their darkness, are not for kids.
The Authority | 8:29 a.m. July 18, 2008
No Credibility nailed it on the head. Ninty-four percent of critics everywhere, women and men, are raving about The Dark Knight. It's drawing comparisons to The Godfather, The Untouchables and other great crime dramas. But she didn't seem to know what was going on.
Maybe she should pay attention.
Maybe she should pay attention.
The Truth | 8:42 a.m. July 18, 2008
Hmmm, sounds like this Batman movie is pretty intense. No children who can't drive to the theater should be able to see it, according to the critics. Um, ok. I guess the overall tone of the movie is what makes it so evil. These critics are so out of touch with what kids are watching these days. The American Pie movies were targeted for teens, but this new Batman is much too naughty and deserved an R-rating because it is so disturbing. Teens just won't be able to handle it. They won't be able to handle the fake, yet disturbing, images on the screen. They need parental guidance, that's what they need. Because this comic book-based movie is much too adult for them. It's just that dark and disturbing. Do NOT let your kids see this film. Please. It is disturbing and dark. Fictional characters dressed as clowns are disturbing. Grown men who act like bats are disturbing. Think about it. Bats are gross. So a man acting like a giant bat would be very disturbing. No way teens could handle it. No way. Slap an r-rating on this baby and send it straight to video. It's just too disturbing.
Clare | 9:04 a.m. July 18, 2008
I'm a definite non-Venus to a certain extent. I love action films. The Matrix, Ironman, Terminator, etc,... I do like some chick flicks,especially Jane Austin, but I would rather be pecked to death by ducks than watch Sex and the City. Yuck! My husband has it good!
hmm | 9:32 a.m. July 18, 2008
It seems like they chose two women to do the Mars vs. Venus feature.
What? | 9:33 a.m. July 18, 2008
All I saw was a view from 2 women, where's the mans point of view? Batman was too dark, and Mama Mia, Meryl Streep singing and dancing was incredible? Sounds like 2 girls to me. Find a man to critique movies and it would make this feature better.
You're a klown... | 10:01 a.m. July 18, 2008
Basketkase: Why do you spell case with a “K?” Do you think it’s kute or kewl? Did you learn how to do that at the “kids kollege”? That’s as dumb as your rant on dark. Why don't you get a “klue,” get out of your mom's dark basement and join the rest of us in society. You act like no one has never described a movie as dark and are so dumb that you don't understand what that means.
“What do you mean the move is dark? I’m just a simple “kaveman” trying to understand your modern ways.”
You have no kredibility.
“What do you mean the move is dark? I’m just a simple “kaveman” trying to understand your modern ways.”
You have no kredibility.
basketkase | 10:28 a.m. July 18, 2008
You made me laugh so hard. Why would a supposed writer be able to come up with something like shady,shadowy, murky, gloomy, sinister or mysterious? Do you expect someone that writes for the paper to be able to use synonyms? I agree with hmm and what?, The loud noises hurt my ears and there is too much action in the dark movie, oh but Meryl Streep the greatest actress ever was FABULOUS!!! She sings like an angel and dances like a butterfly. LMAO not quite what I'd expect for a Mars vs Venus. Venus vs Venus seems more accurate. Please DNews give your writers a thesaurus. Or hire writers that can actually write.
Give me a break. | 10:33 a.m. July 18, 2008
Hey "The Truth",
Good on you for criticizing a warning to adults! Wait, no. Good on you Jeff for pointing that out. So many parents don't pay attention to what their kids see. Others might go into this expecting the (shudder) nipple suit series. So it's a GOOD thing they point that out when it's possible the parents might not know. And believe it or not, The Truth, there are SOME children (because that's what teens are) who DON'T want to go see American Pie. It was NOT aimed at only teens. It was aimed at the male 18-24 year old demographic. And if you truly think that fictional characters can't be disturbing, even dressed as a clown, then why did IT do so well? Why did Poltergeist freak people out? Why is the Joker the ultimate Batman villian? Get a clue man, before you try and be all sarcastic about something you are obviously oblivious to.
Good on you for criticizing a warning to adults! Wait, no. Good on you Jeff for pointing that out. So many parents don't pay attention to what their kids see. Others might go into this expecting the (shudder) nipple suit series. So it's a GOOD thing they point that out when it's possible the parents might not know. And believe it or not, The Truth, there are SOME children (because that's what teens are) who DON'T want to go see American Pie. It was NOT aimed at only teens. It was aimed at the male 18-24 year old demographic. And if you truly think that fictional characters can't be disturbing, even dressed as a clown, then why did IT do so well? Why did Poltergeist freak people out? Why is the Joker the ultimate Batman villian? Get a clue man, before you try and be all sarcastic about something you are obviously oblivious to.
Re:the Authority | 11:01 a.m. July 18, 2008
…and 4 out of 5 dentists surveyed…94% of critics everywhere!?! Where did you even get that number?
You’re so right! Every reviewer should have the same opinion and how dare someone not agree with the majority. Baaa. Take me to your sheepherder.
I’ll be fair, I’m looking forward to seeing Batman but I haven’t seen it yet. I do enjoy a dark movie, (I hope using the word dark didn’t confuse Basketkase with a “K”) but I’m skeptical that it will compare to the “Godfather.” I will, however, go and keep an open mind.
But if I don’t like it I sure won’t say anything because who would dare disagree with the majority or authority. Except for a small group of guys two-hundred and fifty plus years ago that is.
You’re so right! Every reviewer should have the same opinion and how dare someone not agree with the majority. Baaa. Take me to your sheepherder.
I’ll be fair, I’m looking forward to seeing Batman but I haven’t seen it yet. I do enjoy a dark movie, (I hope using the word dark didn’t confuse Basketkase with a “K”) but I’m skeptical that it will compare to the “Godfather.” I will, however, go and keep an open mind.
But if I don’t like it I sure won’t say anything because who would dare disagree with the majority or authority. Except for a small group of guys two-hundred and fifty plus years ago that is.
Dante | 11:02 a.m. July 18, 2008
Personally, I enjoyed this unique approach to a review. It is interesting to shake things up sometimes.
I want to add that Jeff Vice, IMHO, is the best critic around. Even though I've moved away from Utah and don't see a lot of movies, I often check what Jeff has to say before deciding. I don't recall ever being misled by a review of his, unlike others (e.g. Ebert and the guy with the massive mustache). Jeff Vice is a tough, fair and insigtful critic who says what he really thinks. Keep up the good work, and keep paying him for his talented service DNEWS!
I want to add that Jeff Vice, IMHO, is the best critic around. Even though I've moved away from Utah and don't see a lot of movies, I often check what Jeff has to say before deciding. I don't recall ever being misled by a review of his, unlike others (e.g. Ebert and the guy with the massive mustache). Jeff Vice is a tough, fair and insigtful critic who says what he really thinks. Keep up the good work, and keep paying him for his talented service DNEWS!
STEVE-O | 11:05 a.m. July 18, 2008
Basketkase hit this right on with that rant! I was actually laughing out loud at work and people were staring at me... but I didn't care, it was funny.
I also have my suspisions that "Truth" is also "Basketkase" under a different name?
Anyway, I'm going to see this movie tonight and I haven't been this excited to see ANY movie for a long time. So I hope it meets my expectations!
I also have my suspisions that "Truth" is also "Basketkase" under a different name?
Anyway, I'm going to see this movie tonight and I haven't been this excited to see ANY movie for a long time. So I hope it meets my expectations!
Sarah | 11:16 a.m. July 18, 2008
I'll repeat what I said earlier, since a few of you seem to have missed it. This was not a CHILD'S movie, it scared the little boy sitting beside my family to bits. But TEENS will love it. I think PG-13 was a perfectly acceptable rating. Nobody under about 12 should see it without their parents watching it first, though. If you watch it and decide that your 6-year-old will love it, great. But parents of small children should definitely watch this one first.
So critical | 12:04 p.m. July 18, 2008
I love the circular irony--the critics being criticized because of how they critique. Look, it seems that every article published by DNews has several detractors bemoaning the writing. Well, why don't you stop reading? Basketcase, you do realize they have a small word count to deal with, don't you? Further, you do realize that pretty much every other critic can't get around noting the movie's "dark" feeling, right? Finally, if its "evil tone" is its best (or worst, or most glaring) quality, why write a short review discussing Maggie Gyllenhall?
Basketkase | 12:09 p.m. July 18, 2008
To Klown: You wondered if I'd ever heard a movie described as "dark." Obviously, you missed the entire point of my original comment.
In case you missed it, the point was to lampoon the chronically overused term "dark" when used to describe movies, comic books, TV shows, etc. Trust me, I know what people mean when they say it, but it's so ubiquitous these days with dark comedies, dark dramas...it's almost like "dark" is its own genre now. And the fact that Jeff used it about 3 dozen times in his short little article doesn't help either. It's so vague and cheap. It's like calling someone "cool." Yeah, we know what cool means, in a sense, but does it really mean anything? No. Dark could mean one thing or a hundred things. It's lazy. After reading Jeff's review, all I know about the film is one thing: It's dark. He had the chance to elaborate, but didn't.
As for credibility, exactly how does a person establish that on a forum like this? I think the fact that I punctuate, spell, and write fairly well speaks for itself. Enjoy the movie. I respect your right to be wrong.
In case you missed it, the point was to lampoon the chronically overused term "dark" when used to describe movies, comic books, TV shows, etc. Trust me, I know what people mean when they say it, but it's so ubiquitous these days with dark comedies, dark dramas...it's almost like "dark" is its own genre now. And the fact that Jeff used it about 3 dozen times in his short little article doesn't help either. It's so vague and cheap. It's like calling someone "cool." Yeah, we know what cool means, in a sense, but does it really mean anything? No. Dark could mean one thing or a hundred things. It's lazy. After reading Jeff's review, all I know about the film is one thing: It's dark. He had the chance to elaborate, but didn't.
As for credibility, exactly how does a person establish that on a forum like this? I think the fact that I punctuate, spell, and write fairly well speaks for itself. Enjoy the movie. I respect your right to be wrong.
flipside | 12:45 p.m. July 18, 2008
Oh where is Caesar Romero or Jack Nicholson to lighten things up a bit?
Basketkase | 2:03 p.m. July 18, 2008
I don't know what's up Klown's butt, but...
Perhaps if your point was missed you didn't make it very well?
The communication model has a sender, a receiver, noise and a few other things but I'll forgo those.
The message can be lost because of any of those three components. In your post you referenced this specific article because it's a forum about that article. You made no reference to an overall trend of reviews using that word. Simply saying "Why don't critics use a word that means someting..." would clear that umake that connection.
Point well made, though...
Flipside: LOL! Love a good Caesar Romero reference! We could use some comic relief around here. It's just a movie review, people! And it's just a forum to have some fun.
Perhaps if your point was missed you didn't make it very well?
The communication model has a sender, a receiver, noise and a few other things but I'll forgo those.
The message can be lost because of any of those three components. In your post you referenced this specific article because it's a forum about that article. You made no reference to an overall trend of reviews using that word. Simply saying "Why don't critics use a word that means someting..." would clear that umake that connection.
Point well made, though...
Flipside: LOL! Love a good Caesar Romero reference! We could use some comic relief around here. It's just a movie review, people! And it's just a forum to have some fun.
SLMG | 3:52 p.m. July 18, 2008
Absolutly loved Mamma Mia and would go see it again, It was pure entertainment.
I went to see it with my husband, daughter and son in law and 7 year old grandaughter, we all loved it, We will purchase it as soon it is out on DVD.
As for "Dark Knight" I can only speak for myself, I won't be seeing it, not my kind of movie. I do not like Heath Ledger, he was nasty to his fans off stage, not my kind of actor.
I went to see it with my husband, daughter and son in law and 7 year old grandaughter, we all loved it, We will purchase it as soon it is out on DVD.
As for "Dark Knight" I can only speak for myself, I won't be seeing it, not my kind of movie. I do not like Heath Ledger, he was nasty to his fans off stage, not my kind of actor.
Dumb | 5:50 p.m. July 18, 2008
This was a really poor written review. Erica sound pretty dumb if she couldn't follow a Batman movie
Breathless | 6:55 p.m. July 18, 2008
I went to see Momma Mia with my mother today and there was a point in the movie where the audience sang along with one of the tunes in the movie. Somehow I don't see that happening with the Batman movie. Momma Mia was probably the most uplifting show I watched since Dirty Dancing (where the crowd clapped during the last seen of the movie). I already am planning to go to a 2nd showing this weekend. You can dance, you can sing......
Dumb | 7:06 p.m. July 18, 2008
You mean this was a really poorly written review?
That's irony...
That's irony...
Laughable!! | 7:21 p.m. July 18, 2008
Dumb sound pretty dumb, to.
To the rest of you whiners:
I would hate for someone to express an opinion on anyhting. I want the whole world to find out what I think about something and agree with me, that way I won't be so offended when others express their (my)opinions.
That way I don't have to get so very angry all the time and spout off about how offensive others are for expressing an opinion that differs from mine.
If you don't like one person's reviews, then don't read them. Simple as that. I found a reviewer that I mostly agree with, so I read that person's reviews. I don't become infuriated when someone writes a review that I don't agree with.
I'm sure I will like the new Batman movie. I'm sure my wife will hate it because of the reasons Erica Hansen pointed out.
Who really cares??? Oh wait. Most of you guys do.
Boo freakin' hoo. Whine. Whine. Whine.
P.S. For the obvious few of you who don't understand sarcasm, most of this was written sarcastically.
To the rest of you whiners:
I would hate for someone to express an opinion on anyhting. I want the whole world to find out what I think about something and agree with me, that way I won't be so offended when others express their (my)opinions.
That way I don't have to get so very angry all the time and spout off about how offensive others are for expressing an opinion that differs from mine.
If you don't like one person's reviews, then don't read them. Simple as that. I found a reviewer that I mostly agree with, so I read that person's reviews. I don't become infuriated when someone writes a review that I don't agree with.
I'm sure I will like the new Batman movie. I'm sure my wife will hate it because of the reasons Erica Hansen pointed out.
Who really cares??? Oh wait. Most of you guys do.
Boo freakin' hoo. Whine. Whine. Whine.
P.S. For the obvious few of you who don't understand sarcasm, most of this was written sarcastically.
Perspective... | 8:33 p.m. July 18, 2008
People, people, people...
This is a movie review about a movie...based on a comic book
and
on another movie based on a musical, based on ABBA songs.
Hardly any reason to start calling people dumb or question a man's manhood.
By the way, please point out the specific sentence that ever said, or even inferred, that Erica couldn't follow the movie?
A review in the paper is a funny thing. If you were in a group of people at a party and someone said they didn't like a movie you would reply something like, "Really? I liked it, why didn't you? Oh, too dark...yea, I see that but it's a great crime drama." That would be that. You wouldn't give it a second thought. And you certainly never talk to that person like you you here. But put it in a paper and it's a whole different deal.
I liked the feature. Thanks for trying something different. Do it again, it will only get better.
This is a movie review about a movie...based on a comic book
and
on another movie based on a musical, based on ABBA songs.
Hardly any reason to start calling people dumb or question a man's manhood.
By the way, please point out the specific sentence that ever said, or even inferred, that Erica couldn't follow the movie?
A review in the paper is a funny thing. If you were in a group of people at a party and someone said they didn't like a movie you would reply something like, "Really? I liked it, why didn't you? Oh, too dark...yea, I see that but it's a great crime drama." That would be that. You wouldn't give it a second thought. And you certainly never talk to that person like you you here. But put it in a paper and it's a whole different deal.
I liked the feature. Thanks for trying something different. Do it again, it will only get better.
sewcrazy61 | 8:36 p.m. July 18, 2008
Just got back from Mama Mia!! WOW I was worried that it would not do the play justice, WOW I was wrong, I just wish the audience was more involved in the end We were the only ones standing up singing and dancing! I plan to see this again and maybe again and I will buy the DVD. And to think they almost cast Lindsey Lohan as Sophia OUCH!!!! Meryl Streep was wonderful and I hope she gets lotsand lots of acclaim maybe even a academy award nod? the entire case was great, yes even Pierce, so what if he could not sing! I still enjoyed every single moment! They took a wonderful play and turned it into a masterpiece! What a wonderful end to my day and week!
loved Mama Mia | 10:57 a.m. July 19, 2008
It was great -- the whole theater I was in cheered and sang along at the end. Loved it! My husband is excited to go see Batman tonight after I conned him into seeing Mamma Mia with me first by using the old, "If you love me, you will take me to Mamma Mia instead of seeing Batman." Works every time!
LG | 2:09 p.m. July 19, 2008
Breathless: The reason you probably won't see people singing along to the songs in The Dark Knight is because well, it's not a musical. And Mamma Mia is the most uplifting since Dirty Dancing? Oy.
This feature is okay, but a little insulting to women. I saw Batman last night, and it was amazing. I'm female, but I was somehow able to withstand the explosions, developed plotline and complex characters that were not intended for the fairer sex. In fact, there were several women in the audience and as I recall, not one left screaming.
Although there was a couple in front of me who brought their 1 year-old to the 10pm showing ... who does that?
This feature is okay, but a little insulting to women. I saw Batman last night, and it was amazing. I'm female, but I was somehow able to withstand the explosions, developed plotline and complex characters that were not intended for the fairer sex. In fact, there were several women in the audience and as I recall, not one left screaming.
Although there was a couple in front of me who brought their 1 year-old to the 10pm showing ... who does that?
LG | 2:14 p.m. July 19, 2008
Also, I'm not sure what Erica was thinking when she said there was no humor ... there were several parts during the movie when the audience laughed out loud.
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I saw this tonight and plenty of women were there and loved it and after reading the real review and checking national websites like Meta Critic, this is a great movie. In fact I went with a woman in her 50s and she couldn't stop talking about it.
I refuse to believe this "Erica" writer is so simple as to not like a "man's" movie and the premise for this article is circa-1974.
Boo. And yes, I stopped reading pretty early on.