"Homosexual behavior has and will continue to be unacceptable in the eyes of an unchanging God."

In that case, perhaps we should leave the judgment up to God and focus on perfecting the flaws that we surely all have in ourselves.

What you are watching and seeing is just how the great aposticy took place. People ignoring the scriptures (in this case both old and new and modern revelation for LDS.) and changing Gods commandments to fit their own ideas. Knowing that God would do what they do if He only had all the information. Only back in the dark ages they lost the priesthood leadership to keep them in check. So as Isaiah said" The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant." 24:5.
What we have to do is make sure our house is in order. Remember poeple are always going to tell Gods church what it should do. But we know the prophet only listens to God not popular believe.

once again I am reminded of a quote from Susan B Anthony
"I Distrust Those People Who Know So Well what God wants them to do, because I Notice it always coincides with their own desires"

If Frank considers homosexual acts to be "sinful," he should not indulge in them. Does he wear two different fibers at the same time? Does he pick up sticks on the "Sabbath"? Does he have pictures on his walls? Does he ever boil a kid in its mother's milk? All those things were once considered "sinful" just as Frank considers homosexuality to be "sinful." Over time the iron heel of religion loses its force on humanity. Ultimately, we will put it in the dustbin of history where it belongs.

The evil one sees in others is usually within himself.

This writer didn't go far enough, any sexual relations outside of marriage is a sin.

I give up trying to reason with wingnuts.

Your relationship with God and the belief system you carry with it should be just that...yours.

You people are just so silly to bring up the Old Testament all the time.

1. You don't understand it so you shouldn't try to use it.

2. God gives prophets for each generation and each dispensation. They had their prophets that told them what they needed to know to fulfill God's laws. Some listened and were blessed, others refused to listen and suffered the consequences.

3. God will NOT be mocked. Just because you don't see an immediate consequence does NOT mean there won't be one.

4. Every prophet and apostle in every dispensation and generation has decried sexual sin and promised there would be a consequence. If you are happy with that just keep doing what you are doing (either way). But, if you are involved in sexual sin of any sort, beware the consequence.

5. "Only let your sins trouble you unto repentence" You can stop the sin and renew yourself with God. Millions have done it. It is called a "mighty change of heart" or "being born again" and it is amazing and wonderful.

Overpopulation is the biggest problem facing our nation -- it requires us to increase taxes to pay for schools, deal with crime, and create more roads to accomodate everybody! It requires more government to manage healthcare, create more prisons, and fight more foreign wars to procure oil for everybody. Overpopulation simply means more taxes and more government -- an evil in God's eyes. We must stop all activities that procreate to keep taxes and government in check!

My god says your god is a fairy tale. I guess that is why we dont base our laws on what someone thinks their god/gods want. We base our laws on freedom and where my freedom runs into yours.

It is also an abomonation to eat shellfish.

If someone works on the sabbath they should be killed (note that Leviticus doesn't include an exception for firefighters or policemen).

Oh, and which unchanging God's rules do we follow?

Frank, it sounds like your version of what is and isn't sinful is derived from the Christian Bible.

That same book also says it is an abomination in the eyes of God to each shellfish. Eaten any shrimp lately, Frank?

The Bible says you're supposed to kill anyone who doesn't worship the God of the Bible. The Biblical God even says it'll be delightful to take the babies of your enemies and dash them against stones.

The Bible says parents must put disrespectful children to death. How are your teenagers faring, Frank?

The Bible says people who work on the Sabbath must be put to death. (Which day is the Sabbath Frank, Saturday or Sunday?)

Frank - you're guaranteed under the constitution to worship invisible magical friends in the sky any way you want.

That said, you have absolutely no right to shove your particular brand of irrational bigotry into our nation's laws.

John C. Please learn to write as you would speak, your post is illegible and your spelling is really bad.

There are so many sins out there that you can't even turn around without bumping into one.

The LDS Church should focus on the sins that affect the whole race, not just the little petty things. Lets hear them denounce WAR and its associated evils. Once they prove that they are SERIOUS about that SIN, then, maybe, we can believe that they really do speak in the name of God. When they call GWB to repentance, then perhaps we can start to think they are truly men of God.

"...his prophet and the other general authorities are wrong in opposing gay marriage. His rationale is that Jesus told us never to reject anyone. No one disagrees that we have an obligation to unconditionally love everyone, but at the same time we can reject and abhor their behavior."

Isn't the homosexual act the "sin?" This is not going to stop anyone from sinning in that way. This is only going to stop two same sex partners from being civilly united and legally dependant upon each other.

The family is breaking down with divorce, unwed mothers, abuse and abandonment. Those are the problems that you need to focus on. This is a scapegoat for the problems that heterosexuals have placed upon the family. Work on them!

Frank is right on but he doesn't go far enough. The radical homosexual agenda has been labeled the number one threat against religious freedom. They want to silence any and all opposition to their agenda to distort and maim the traditional family unit. This movement is as insidious as much as it is creepy or sinful.

Indeed, the GLBT's need Constitutional protections like anyone else. But as they conscientiously work toward destroying my religious freedoms and the moral foundation of our society, that's where I will respectfully, but vehemently...not violently, oppose them.

Wake up people and do your homework!! Check out Alliance Defense Fund, Americans for Truth About Homosexuality, and even take a peek at what MassResistance in Massachusetts is experiencing.

Kevin, you will soon find out who the real wingnuts are.

Hey Frank: Then don't do it.
Why do you care if others do? Why is it that religious people want to control what others do, even when it doesn't have any affect on the person attempting to control everything?
The bible also says we can own slaves.
It also turned a woman into a pillar of salt for merely turning around while her daughters are allowed to get their father drunk and seduce him.
The bible doesn't exactly have the most credibility.

For those who believe laws (government or religious) against homosexual behavior are silly or "outdated", what other commandments would you put on the chopping block?

Clearly abstinence and fidelity have always been unpopular for many and nearly every sexual behavior is now embraced by a large segment of society (pornography, adultery, prostitution, etc.). So far only rape and sexual assault against children seem to still find disfavor.

Laws against stealing, murder, bribery, vandalism, etc. may soon find themselves on the chopping block as well as our nation slowly slips into the abyss of relativism.

"3. God will NOT be mocked."

Hey! You!! God!! NYAH! NYAH! NYAH! Nyen! Nyeh!!! BWAHAHAHAHAH!!!

Frank wasn't suggesting that anyone who isn't LDS should accept what he was saying. He was only pointing out that someone who professes to be LDS should accept the counsel of the prophet who leads the Church and the scriptures cannonized by the Church. If Carlyle doesn't accept what the Prophet and apostles of the Church have told us (see Proclamation to the World on Families and numerous Conference talks) then why does he profess to be LDS? If someone thinks the Church should change to accomodate their thinking, they do not understand the Church or where the doctrine of the Church comes from.

Ah, the destructive force of religion! What it does to the human soul is just plain sad. Whether one believes in God or not, notions of good and evil still exist. To call homosexuality a sin is to contribute to the daily human suffering that we should reverse. Maligning gays for being gay is evil. When will we stop it? The main impediment to relieving human suffering is religion; only religion can make good people do bad things.

The gay marriage issue is the wacky and sanctimonious neocon's new political moral hot button.
And just like Roe v Wade, their efforts to force their twisted brand of morality on the rest of society will also fail and fail miserably.

Sorry Ernest, but the Bible holds much more credibility than you do. The Judeo-Christian ethic of our whole civilization is based upon the Bible, and not your views of what is credible or not.

There is no such thing as breaking God's commandments, only breaking yourself against them. God's commandments are a standard of morality where if people would follow them, there would be greater peace and happiness than now exists in the world.

We can sin at will but no one can escape the consequences of sin. AIDS, STD's, and the wide array of other diseases associated with immoral behavior are pervasive.

Immorality and all of its associated perversions, whether they be of the homosexual or heterosexual variety, is destroying our civilization.

So Ernest, religion is not a matter of controlling other people. It is a matter of encouraging one another to abide by the commandments of God and enjoy harmonious relationships which are conducive to true happiness.

Wickedness never was happiness.

"laws against stealing, murder, bribery, vandalism, etc. may soon find themselves on the chopping block as well as our nation slowly slips into the abyss of relativism."
Stealing, murder, bribery and vandalism take (or destroy) something from someone else, gay marriage does not. That is how we make our laws, not based on the bible or any other work of fiction.

"...unchanging God..."

Is that the same 'unchanging God' that in 1978 decided to change??

Does God change or not...I wish Mormons would make up their minds.

I agree with Frank. Even though I abhor their behavior and religion I strive to love the member unconditionally. Love the member, hate their church.

Lyle: It is absolute control when a religion attempts to change laws in order to CONTROL the habbits and personal choice of an individual when the act has no actual impact or bearing on those trying to CONTROL someone else.
Look at the 10 Commandments. Only half of them are against the law, the other half are personal lifestyle choices yet religions try to CONTROL businesses being open on Sundays, etc.
The fact is the bible is full of contradictions.
Truth doesn't entail contradictions.
Contradictions = no credibility.

Lyle says: "The Judeo-Christian ethic of our whole civilization is based upon the Bible, and not your views of what is credible or not."

Oh really? If that's so, then when may I anticipate the stoning deaths of my non-Christian neighbors, as this biblical "ethic" unambiguously requires?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev. 15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but they get all offended when I do. Lyle, how do you find out?

I want to sell my daughter into slavery, as per Exodus 21:7. Please, Lyle, what's a fair price for her?

My neighbor swears A LOT. Leviticus 24:16 says he must be stoned to death. Problem is, he's a cop. Tell me Lyle, how do I proceed?

Deuteronomy 22:13-21 says I must kill my wife because she wasn't a virgin when we married, but I love her! Lyle, help me!

I guess the next great sin to be discussed are heterosexual acts that go beyond the established norms of the 19th century. Sex that is not directly resulting in procreation will be identified as an abomination and church leaders should deliver sermons against such acts.

The will say that only a married man and woman should be able to have sex in the proscribed manner that is authorized by the church, and it is a sin if a child is not the result.

Since homosexual acts cannot result in having a child, this in itself is reason that the acts are sinful and should not be allowed.

Simple. No child, no acts.

The morals of Americans are long gone. A heterosexual nation that has placed 48,000,000 babies on the "chopping block" has lost its moral foundation. The homosexual community has been watching, and realizing that morals no longer exist, they've decided that now is the time to move.

To expect people who have lost all respect for God to follow His commandments is expecting too much.

Study the history of this land and name one Godless people who were allowed to live here for more and a generation or two.

The blind can't see. Those who choose to be blind have chosen not to see. But the evidence surrounds those who have eyes to see and ears to hear.

To know something is wrong and then to do it anyway is a sin. To pretend that you don't think that something is wrong when you know that it is wrong is a lie. Being a liar is wrong. Living in a fantasy world where there are no absolute laws is living the life of Peter Pan.

I feel so much better knowing that Frank knows what God wants us to do. Have you talked with God recently Frank?

But Frank, the Catholic church thinks that birth control is a grave sin--one that is actively destroying families. Should we allow them to make laws outlawing this sinful practice? Or should the individual choose?

There are absolute laws, just not your made up laws from the bible. Many of us dont believe in your god or his commandments. That is why you should stop trying to make everyone live by you standards. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I wont try to force you to sleep in and watch sports on Sunday and you shouldnt try to make me live YOUR religion.

Mike Richards:

I was wondering when we would hear from you. I always enjoy what you have to say. It makes me laugh and makes my day even better.

Your imaginative use of the words "chopping blocks" is really great. Personally, I would use the term to describe the millions of children currently without health insurance since they are really on a "chopping block" regarding their futures.

Ernest: Give me proof of any civilization in this earth’s history which violated the commandments of God and survived. There is none.

This discussion is rooted in the subject of good vs. evil, God vs. Satan...AND mankind’s choices between the two. You can make wise and good choices and be happy. Or you can make stupid and bad choices and be miserable. I have done both and I will opt for the side of good and righteousness every time because joy far outweighs the misery I’ve experienced for bad choices I’ve made in life.

For our society to survive, there MUST be moral standards to adhere to. If these standards are violated we get moral relativism which results in chaos. To Ernest and all like-minded folks, do your homework, read the lessons of history, study the Bible, esp. the New Testament. Base your arguments on principles and standards. Craft some factual, reasonable arguments based upon sound principles instead of worked-up drive-by emotionalism.

Personally I don't think homosexual acts are one of those boarderline cases that we're not sure are OK or not.

That said, this isn't any of my business (unless it's me trying to decide if homosexual acts are OK for me). Like you said, it isn't our job to judge others. Others can do what they want, but for me there's no gray area here.

This religion vs secular debating is ridiculous.
The open or closed practice of homosexuality is harmful, not only because of the spread of disease, but also because it impedes the progress of human evolution and social progression.
Societies of humans, to keep procreating in a healthy manner, must be guided in full gender identification with their accompanying social roles. This nurturing must go on throughout childhood so that the achievement of maleness and femaleness is made. The genders must be opposite, for normal sexual feeling to naturally follow.
Those persons who miss this Achievement, whether through bad parenting, childhood trauma, physical abnormality, or their own contrariness are hindering social advancement. By trying to homogenize themselves into the rest of us they, along with feminists, send a negative energy into the world causing a gender confusion that hinders more people from developing properly, resulting in in other gender relationship problems, such as divorce.
Certainly homosexuals should have no political power as a group, or any social acceptance.
Far too many of us take procreation for granted.

Darin @ 8:56 a.m.:

"Maligning gays for being gay is evil. When will we stop it?"

As soon as homosexual acts cease to be repugnant.

Troubled by the hypocrisy @ 8:05 a.m.:

"The LDS Church should focus on the sins that affect the whole race, not just the little petty things. Lets hear them denounce WAR and its associated evils."

The LDS Church abhors wars. It does favor self defense. Brigham almost had to use it.

Valeeda: You sound like a real Christ like person.

Procreation for granted? The earth has about several billion people to many.

Thousands of people go hungry and die daily. Our air is poisen, water poluted, our oceans decimated, and on and on.

The procreation problem got out of hand long, long, ago.
It's not the gay people ruining our lives. It is all of us our breath on earth.

Wow Valeeda, that was hateful.

"wrz | 11:23 a.m.:

Darin @ 8:56 a.m.:

"Maligning gays for being gay is evil. When will we stop it?"

As soon as homosexual acts cease to be repugnant."

Don't despair... could happen. Rome managed it. Just prior to its fall.

Greg | 10:03 a.m.:

"'...unchanging God...'

Is that the same 'unchanging God' that in 1978 decided to change??

Does God change or not...I wish Mormons would make up their minds."

1978 was not change. It was a refinement of thinking. Ask B. Hussein Obama how it works.

How many of god's ten commands do most of you ignore that Bush as broken? Talk about moral relativism. Christians for torture, who be a great grup you could gather around.

Be blessed for the gays. Pointing to their sins means to never have to look at yourselves.

"The morals of Americans are long gone" says Neocon Mike Richards.
I would say speak for yourself, Mike Richards. Then either ask forgiveness or better yet, why not mind your own personal business rather than focus and obsess on somebody else's?

To Lyle @ 10:45 a.m.:

"...when may I anticipate the stoning deaths of my non-Christian neighbors, as this biblical 'ethic' unambiguously requires?"

Plans are in process for something along those lines this afternoon. You can hold the coats.

"Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?"

See above.

"I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev. 15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell?"

Ask.

"I want to sell my daughter into slavery, as per Exodus 21:7. Please, Lyle, what's a fair price for her?"

Scientists have the calculation. Recently updated to around a million.

"My neighbor swears A LOT. Leviticus 24:16 says he must be stoned to death. Problem is, he's a cop. Tell me Lyle, how do I proceed?"

Get the people he may have arrested to help you.

"Deuteronomy 22:13-21 says I must kill my wife because she wasn't a virgin when we married, but I love her! Lyle, help me!"

Marry a second. But be more careful next time.

"Give me proof of any civilization in this earth’s history which violated the commandments of God and survived. There is none."

India, China, Burma, Nepal, Cambodia, Iran (a.k.a. Persia), Japan, and others.

"No one disagrees that we have an obligation to unconditionally love everyone..."

Actually, the term "unconditional love" is not doctrinal according to LDS doctrine. Although we should treat others (homosexuals) as Christ would treat them, we don't have an obligation to love everyone no matter what they do (unconditionally). This "love without conditions" is an idea that has hung around for many years because it sounds nice in testimony meeting, but has no basis. Please read what an apostle has to say about this: "Divine Love" by Elder Russell M. Nelson (Ensign, Feb 2003).

If you're still having trouble with this, ask yourself, "what is love?" and you'll begin to see the answer.

To thoseof you that don' attend church regularly or study the scripture,please don't use the scripture to bolster your argument. Your understanding is infantile and flawed. My suggestion is that you keep your argument to that whichyou have more understanding.

As usual the rebuttal argument from the Homosexual community is that since their "sin" is so much less grievous than the innumerable "sins" that they can reference, that no one should care that they keep their private "sin".

A "sin" is a "sin".

If you're looking for an excuse to keep your "sin", then no amount of logic would ever convince you otherwise.

Go ahead, keep your "sin". Wallow in it. Let it define who you are and what you do. Shout it out so that all the world is aware of your "sin" of preference. It is your "sin" to do with as you please.

But someday, if you ever want to become perfect, you're going to have to finally let go of that "sin".

Your god and my God are the same being. He gets to define what "sin" is, and He has already spoken against the "sin" of homosexual sex many, many times through His prophets, since time began.

What you personally believe won't change His mind, and obviously, what He has clearly instructed you to do is of no consequence to you.

So, continue to rebel against God, because that's exactly what you're doing.