Reader comments: Europe's new law fuels immigration debate

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Timj | 7:32 a.m. July 9, 2008
I love Europe. It's a great place to live, without many of the problems the US has.
However, they do tend to be quite racist, especially towards Africans, Middle Easterns, and Eastern Europeans (the three biggest groups of immigrants).
I would say their racism problem is even bigger than ours here in the US.
Paul | 8:49 a.m. July 9, 2008
Are Europeans unable to say 'illegal alien', too?
Reasonable | 9:13 a.m. July 9, 2008
"Fear of strangers?" No, what many of us in the US are expressing is concern deeply rooted in fact. Consider just two important points -- the children of illegal immigrants from South and Central America are dropping out of high school at a staggering rate and their rates of single-parent households are dramatically increasing. These unfortunate facts bring social and economic consequences that must be taken seriously.
Comments continue below
Phantom Panther | 9:35 a.m. July 9, 2008
Sounds like the Europeans are finally waking up to the problems that can be caused by illegal immigration. Of course, lawlessness normally brings with it problems.
Casey | 11:21 a.m. July 9, 2008
I thought Europe was the enlightened continent that we should be trying to emulate.
Frustrated in Orem | 11:34 a.m. July 9, 2008
The problem with illegal immigration is that they cannot work or live in a legal manner. They cannot do honest work, because they would have to divulge to the employer that they are here illegally. So their only option is to steal someone's identity or work in illegal activities (illegal drugs, prostitution, etc).

However, the only way to truly prevent illegal immigration would require that everyone be required to verify their identity for work, school and housing--not just certain ethnic groups.

I had a roommate many years ago that we found out later was here illegally. He came into the country on a tourist visa and just did not return when his visa expired. He worked for a friend in Utah that was paying him under the table, but when the project was done(illegal work on more than one level), he couldn't find employment. When he contacted immigration to get a green card, he was deported. He was from Denmark and did not fit the look of suspected ethnic groups.
Wilkey | 11:44 a.m. July 9, 2008
*** "For instance, the study found that immigration contributed on average 4.5 percent to the annual growth of Ireland's economy and 3.8 percent to that of Spain." ***

The purpose of government and civilization is not to prop up the welfare state, the pension system, or to make sure that the Fortune 500 (or the European equivalent) continues to post good earnings every quarter. It's about protecting its citizens and their overall welfare (which is about a whole lot more than money) and helping them to raise their children into the next generation.

All over Europe and America that is not happening. In virtually every country of the First World the native populations are being outbred at astounding rates by immigrants. The native populations are, quite literally, being replaced. Many countries, if current trends continue, will see their native populations become minorities in the very near future.

Is this the goal? Is this what we want? In democracies, where the people have power, these facts will change the very shape of our society.

And what are the plebes being told by the elitists busy replacing them?

"You have no choice. You have no right to keep these people out."
Anonymous | 12:03 p.m. July 9, 2008
*** "He was from Denmark and did not fit the look of suspected ethnic groups. " ***

Of the 12-20 million illegal aliens living in this country, how many are from Europe? Maybe 100-400 thousand, perhaps?

And FWIW, I would gladly stand in line all day to get fingerprinted for a biometric ID. It's better than having your country overrun for the purpose of driving down wages for American workers.
Anonymous | 12:22 p.m. July 9, 2008
The goal of government is not to prop up the welfare state or ensure gangbuster earnings growth for the Fortune 500. It's to pass on your culture and help you raise your family.

All over the First World the native populations are being outbred and replaced at an astounding rate by immigrant populations, and for what? A few tenths of a point extra economic growth?

We're richer than ever and yet less happy and more miserable, too. Some is just the ennui of modern lie, but do you think that the cultural dislocation caused by mass migration has something to do with it, too? Do you think that being told that you have no right to your culture, in your country, has something to say about it?

And what's worse, in democratic societies every voter has an equal voice - meaning that the immigrants today are often (deliberately) voting against the best interests of the populations who welcomed them with open arms.

And what are the native populations being told (in democracies, no less)? "You have no right to close the door."

The elites have lost touch.
MadMax | 1:51 p.m. July 9, 2008
LEGAL immigration gives new life to a country. These folks can provide a look into true diversity. We need such revitalization. What we do not need is increased welfare roles, increased crime, stressed school systems, a health care system overburdened, identity theft, more drugs, poliferation of ESL demands and needs along with their attendent costs and all the other bad things brought to our nation because of ILLEGAL immigration. There is a vast difference between the two. Both Europe and the United States better get a handle on illegal immigration because it will destroy their civilizations and cultures. That is not racist or bigoted; just the truth.
Anonymous | 1:53 p.m. July 9, 2008
Notice Vargas's slight-of-hand:

--- "La Caixa, a well-respected Spanish financial institution, measured the impact of immigration on Europe's economy between 1995 and 2005." ---

First he obscures the issue: The law in question deals with ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, but Vargas quotes stats on TOTAL IMMIGRATION.

--- "For instance, the study found that immigration contributed on average 4.5 percent to the annual growth of Ireland's economy and 3.8 percent to that of Spain." ---

Second, he cherry picks his countries: The data provides information for all of the EU, but he picks only two, one of which is notoriously economically moribund (SPain).

Third (from the same quote), he obscures the numbers: 4.5% of economic growth is such that if total GNP growth is 4%, then growth without immigration is still over 3.8% per annum. And much of the revenue generated by that growth went where? To programs and increased infrastructure and welfare needs caused by, you guessed it, immigration.
Anonymous | 2:56 p.m. July 9, 2008
*** "LEGAL immigration gives new life to a country. These folks can provide a look into true diversity. We need such revitalization." ***

Revitalized from what? When were we nonvitalized? When were we dead?

We already had strong economies. The numbers for academic performance, trade deficit, consumer debt, federal deficits, and the like have only gotten worse as immigration increased from 1965-today. Much of the "revitlization" you point to was the result of nothing more than technology. The key technologies in the current age of technology were virtually all developed by native Americans here (Bardeen, Shockley, Moore) or else foreigners working on their own soil.

A slew of countries have witnessed rapid economic growth over the last half century with virtually no immigration - Finland, Germany, China, India, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore. Are you suggesting that America is somehow uniquely incapable of doing so without help from immigrants?

I agree that SOME level of immigration is useful and nice, for both cultural and economic reasons. But immigration that's increasing the population by over 2 million per year? Pure insanity.

It's nice to know you think so poorly of Americans.
Apples and Oranges | 7:38 p.m. July 9, 2008
I note that EVERY study showing positive impacts from "immigration" either sloppily or deceitfully lumps legal immigrants and ILLEGAL aliens together.

Those who immigrate LEGALLY do a tremendous amount of good, are more law abiding than almost any other group, and their benefits will often mask the harm done by ILLEGAL aliens when the two groups are lumped together.

Break the two groups apart to study their effects and the ILLEGAL ALIENS almost always create a massive drain on society.

Any study that fails to distinguish between LEGAL immigration and ILLEGAL aliens is too fundamentally flawed from inception to trust anything else it may say.

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