Reader comments: Online speech may be free but is subject to delete
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Bob G | 7:54 a.m. July 7, 2008
Freedom of Speech has no limits and censorship is a crime. If a person doesn't like what they see or read then let them pluck thier own eyes out. The truth is fact and censorship is fiction, and we have enough of that in government. If a company or business elicits individuals to blog, comment, or ask opinions then censorship is an act that should not be allowed. The national and local news media are active in censorship of news reports and the truth but individuals still have the right of free speech without oppression. Censorship and the loss right to assemble is the first step in an opressive government to strip freedoms. The internet has become the meeting house of free thinkers and uncensored information for those that wish to assemble and spread the truth. Businesses and government should not be interfering. You Tube and My Space are not information sites, they are a lonely hearts club of people that only harms the users.
Author is confused | 8:10 a.m. July 7, 2008
"seemingly public spaces"
Ignorance of private property and the rights of the owner of said is not censorship or a loss of free speech.
Ignorance of private property and the rights of the owner of said is not censorship or a loss of free speech.
Comments continue below
Anonymous | 9:18 a.m. July 7, 2008
Only the extreme right-wing wants government intervention (censorship).
Try all they want, we liberals will always keep America free.
Try all they want, we liberals will always keep America free.
wrz | 9:50 a.m. July 7, 2008
Bob G 7:54 a.m. July 7, 2008: "If a company or business elicits individuals to blog, comment, or ask opinions then censorship is an act that should not be allowed."
A company or business eliciting blogs or comments is not asking for foul language, for example, which should be censored.
A company or business eliciting blogs or comments is not asking for foul language, for example, which should be censored.
All so Wrong | 9:59 a.m. July 7, 2008
Obviously the room of full of liberals Today. Lets do some Constitution 101 and help fix your liberal problem.
Freedom of Speech is guaranteed as long as it is not libel or slander. Libel and slander are falsehoods written or spoken. Therefore there are things which are NOT protected under the 1st ammendment.
Freedom of Speech is guaranteed as long as it is not libel or slander. Libel and slander are falsehoods written or spoken. Therefore there are things which are NOT protected under the 1st ammendment.
Amy | 10:12 a.m. July 7, 2008
You can say whatever you like--but businesses are not required to host it.
To Bob G | 10:19 a.m. July 7, 2008
Your comment of 7:54 seems to support a position of absolutely no limits, neither governmental nor privately imposed, on what can be posted online.
If that is indeed your position, then you support the unfettered right of any sicko to post images of child porn, or murder or torture, just to mention a few types of content that are now banned.
You may have felt your post was arguing against Government and Big Business suppressing the "free speech" rights of people to post online otherwise legal content.
But anarchy - the absence of limits - is no more a solution in the cyberworld than it is in the streets.
Many people fail to understand this simple truth: it is thru the rule of law that we enforce our rights to inherent freedoms, including free speech.
Anarchy is the 180-degree counterpoint to freedom - it's the rule of and by the lawless.
Your "pluck thier (sic) own eyes out" comment seems to say "If you don't want to see child porn, don't go to those sites."
But that attitude does nothing, for example, to protect children from sexual exploitation - which is inarguably in society's best interest.
jay bird
If that is indeed your position, then you support the unfettered right of any sicko to post images of child porn, or murder or torture, just to mention a few types of content that are now banned.
You may have felt your post was arguing against Government and Big Business suppressing the "free speech" rights of people to post online otherwise legal content.
But anarchy - the absence of limits - is no more a solution in the cyberworld than it is in the streets.
Many people fail to understand this simple truth: it is thru the rule of law that we enforce our rights to inherent freedoms, including free speech.
Anarchy is the 180-degree counterpoint to freedom - it's the rule of and by the lawless.
Your "pluck thier (sic) own eyes out" comment seems to say "If you don't want to see child porn, don't go to those sites."
But that attitude does nothing, for example, to protect children from sexual exploitation - which is inarguably in society's best interest.
jay bird
Stewart | 10:26 a.m. July 7, 2008
It seems everyone would like to censor someone. So far the internet is the "wild and woolly west," just the way many of the folks like it. For the most part, it is a matter of, he who pays the piper calls the tune. In other words those who pay for the servers and other expenses have an agenda, and they wish to indoctrinate us with their point of view. So, if others won't support YOUR agenda, get off the free ride and pay for your own.
Many websites try to appear to present both sides of the issue. These are the ones most likely to be giving you some load of unseen propaganda, and you need to take the information with a very cynical mind.
Many websites try to appear to present both sides of the issue. These are the ones most likely to be giving you some load of unseen propaganda, and you need to take the information with a very cynical mind.
LOL | 10:31 a.m. July 7, 2008
I can offer the side of my building for graffiti artists to practice their "wares". I am, however, under absolutely no obligation to accept anything and everything they might decide to put there as it still remains MY space. The same goes for virtual forums. Unless it's public domain, you have absolutely no right to free speech without consequence.
Gary S. | 10:34 a.m. July 7, 2008
The author is way off base and does not understand the First Amendment or basic property rights.
- Free speech goes hand-in-hand with property rights. If I own property, such as a Web site, I get to control what takes place there.
- The First Amendment specifies that the federal government may not abridge free speech. Yahoo is NOT the government. Yahoo has the right to restrict what goes on its own Web site.
- The First Amendment restricts the government from abridging free speech but does not guarantee a time and place for free speech to anyone. If you want to use a stage, you have to obey the stage owner's rules, or you have to build your own stage.
- If I post content on Yahoo that triggers a frivolous lawsuit, who is going to get sued? Little old me, or deep-pocketed Yahoo? Yahoo has the right to protect itself.
- If you want to post something on the Web that violates mainstream sites' terms of use, then start your own Web site.
It's rubbish to think that anyone but the federal government is restricted by the First Amendment.
- Free speech goes hand-in-hand with property rights. If I own property, such as a Web site, I get to control what takes place there.
- The First Amendment specifies that the federal government may not abridge free speech. Yahoo is NOT the government. Yahoo has the right to restrict what goes on its own Web site.
- The First Amendment restricts the government from abridging free speech but does not guarantee a time and place for free speech to anyone. If you want to use a stage, you have to obey the stage owner's rules, or you have to build your own stage.
- If I post content on Yahoo that triggers a frivolous lawsuit, who is going to get sued? Little old me, or deep-pocketed Yahoo? Yahoo has the right to protect itself.
- If you want to post something on the Web that violates mainstream sites' terms of use, then start your own Web site.
It's rubbish to think that anyone but the federal government is restricted by the First Amendment.
Anonymous | 10:35 a.m. July 7, 2008
Conservatives LOVE censorship.
Even their all-time conservative guru commands his loyal servants to ignore what they read in the newspapers calling it "the drive-by media."
Even their all-time conservative guru commands his loyal servants to ignore what they read in the newspapers calling it "the drive-by media."
never gonna happen | 10:40 a.m. July 7, 2008
Conservative campaigns to censor movies and TV and music were doomed first by cable TV and then by the Internet.
Liberal means freedom. Real Americans will never roll over for that shrinking conservative movement that calls itself conservative that tries to get the government to intervene on everybody's private business.
Liberal means freedom. Real Americans will never roll over for that shrinking conservative movement that calls itself conservative that tries to get the government to intervene on everybody's private business.
re: all so wrong | 10:49 a.m. July 7, 2008
"...the room of full of liberals Today."
"Freedom of Speech is guaranteed as long as it is not libel or slander."
This is the same type that thinks nothing of saying "Liberals worship Satan!"
Who are these neocons think they are trying to kid?
"Freedom of Speech is guaranteed as long as it is not libel or slander."
This is the same type that thinks nothing of saying "Liberals worship Satan!"
Who are these neocons think they are trying to kid?
Re: Anonymous | 11:13 a.m. July 7, 2008
Liberals are the ones who would like to put conservative talk radio off the air. I think that they are over the top, but that doesn't mean they should be censored. The "airness doctrine" is another word for censorship.
Anonymous | 11:24 a.m. July 7, 2008
Deseret News censors this all the time....but if one is pro Mormon everything is accepted
Anonymous | 11:46 a.m. July 7, 2008
Conservatives tell each other in their dysfunctional group that liberals want to shut down Rush Limbaugh and his ilk.
Another neocon lie.
Let the divisive extremists shoot their mouths off all they want. It only makes it easier for the moderates come November.
Neocons only appeal to the reddest of rednecks.
Another neocon lie.
Let the divisive extremists shoot their mouths off all they want. It only makes it easier for the moderates come November.
Neocons only appeal to the reddest of rednecks.
Anonymous | 12:00 p.m. July 7, 2008
Conservatives try to censor everything they don't agree with.
Liberals are always open and free.
Liberals are always open and free.
@Liberals | 12:13 p.m. July 7, 2008
This isn't about conservative or liberal biases.
This is about the freedom of Yahoo. Why should we be able to tell Yahoo what they can and can't put on THEIR site? Isn't that censorship? But I guess if its a big business they had it coming, right?
Seriously, reverse the roles, let's say Yahoo wanted to post something on this guys blog. Like an advertisement. And he came and deleted it. Same thing right? Except this guy has a sob story because Yahoo misinterpreted his picture and won't let him share! Boo hoo.
While I respect what the Liberals that have posted are trying to convey, I seriously question your objectivity in this situation and hope you take a moment to look at both sides before flinging anymore accusations. You're stepping over the freedom of the company to champion the freedom of an individual. News flash! Individuals make up companies.
This is about the freedom of Yahoo. Why should we be able to tell Yahoo what they can and can't put on THEIR site? Isn't that censorship? But I guess if its a big business they had it coming, right?
Seriously, reverse the roles, let's say Yahoo wanted to post something on this guys blog. Like an advertisement. And he came and deleted it. Same thing right? Except this guy has a sob story because Yahoo misinterpreted his picture and won't let him share! Boo hoo.
While I respect what the Liberals that have posted are trying to convey, I seriously question your objectivity in this situation and hope you take a moment to look at both sides before flinging anymore accusations. You're stepping over the freedom of the company to champion the freedom of an individual. News flash! Individuals make up companies.
Go to law school instead of jour | 12:58 p.m. July 7, 2008
This article makes an interesting comment "First Amendment protections generally do not extend to private property in the physical world, allowing a shopping mall to legally kick out a customer wearing a T-shirt with a picture of a smoking child."
This is a simplistic understanding of free speech law. Marsh ruled that "the more an owner, for his advantage, opens up his property for use by the public in general, the more do his rights become circumscribed by the statutory and constitutional rights of those who use it."
The argument that the First Amendment doesn't apply to private property is incorrect. The Courts seek to balance private property rights against First Amendment rights but the claim that the right of private property takes precedent over the right to freedom of speech would mean renters technically can't exercise freedom of speech in the homes they rent without permission of the property owner.
Or those who purchase homes on mortage since they technically don't own the home and their banks or loan company which does could restrict the speech of the FAMILY ON THEIR PROPERTY until they pay for the right to speak freely on that property.
This is a simplistic understanding of free speech law. Marsh ruled that "the more an owner, for his advantage, opens up his property for use by the public in general, the more do his rights become circumscribed by the statutory and constitutional rights of those who use it."
The argument that the First Amendment doesn't apply to private property is incorrect. The Courts seek to balance private property rights against First Amendment rights but the claim that the right of private property takes precedent over the right to freedom of speech would mean renters technically can't exercise freedom of speech in the homes they rent without permission of the property owner.
Or those who purchase homes on mortage since they technically don't own the home and their banks or loan company which does could restrict the speech of the FAMILY ON THEIR PROPERTY until they pay for the right to speak freely on that property.
Anonymous | 12:58 p.m. July 7, 2008
Conservatives try to censor art, movies, tv, internet ... EVERYTHING!
And they lose the battles EVERY TIME!
America will alway be free!
And they lose the battles EVERY TIME!
America will alway be free!
Stop crying little baby | 1:06 p.m. July 7, 2008
"This is about the freedom of Yahoo. Why should we be able to tell Yahoo what they can and can't put on THEIR site? Isn't that censorship? But I guess if its a big business they had it coming, right?"
The moment Yahoo chooses to open its website to the public, allow anyone to access their site and post information they begin to lose the right to control what is said.
"Seriously, reverse the roles, let's say Yahoo wanted to post something on this guys blog. Like an advertisement. And he came and deleted it. Same thing right?"
No, since the blog owner didn't open up his site to the general public. He may target a niche market and it may be a family blog. The fact that the public can access it doesn't mean he has to allow them to access it anymore than the fact that anyone can open your front door means you have to allow them to access it but if you open your house to the public than you do lose some right of control.
The sob story here is yours.
The moment Yahoo chooses to open its website to the public, allow anyone to access their site and post information they begin to lose the right to control what is said.
"Seriously, reverse the roles, let's say Yahoo wanted to post something on this guys blog. Like an advertisement. And he came and deleted it. Same thing right?"
No, since the blog owner didn't open up his site to the general public. He may target a niche market and it may be a family blog. The fact that the public can access it doesn't mean he has to allow them to access it anymore than the fact that anyone can open your front door means you have to allow them to access it but if you open your house to the public than you do lose some right of control.
The sob story here is yours.
Anonymous | 2:05 p.m. July 7, 2008
Is there free speech in Utah? Read the book "When Salt Lake City calls"
Anonymous | 3:01 p.m. July 7, 2008
The internet is the last bastion of free speech.
But the conservatives want to censor that too.
But the conservatives want to censor that too.
Little Baby? | 3:26 p.m. July 7, 2008
"The moment Yahoo chooses to open its website to the public, allow anyone to access their site and post information they begin to lose the right to control what is said"
They gain the right to control what is said by posting statements about what is and is not acceptable and by putting a usage statement allowing them to censor whatever they choose when they choose to. They warn you before hand, post at your own violation. Much like this blog says "Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted."
"if you open your house to the public than you do lose some right of control"
Except when the rules of entering the house are posted and if someone breaks those rules, even if they are ambiguous, the repercussions are clearly stated. Just because the door is open, doesn't mean you can't kick someone out that you find offensive.
Fact is, the more control you give the individual, the more you take away from conglomerates. There is no black and white "freedom" of speech. The Internet just adds to the grayness.
They gain the right to control what is said by posting statements about what is and is not acceptable and by putting a usage statement allowing them to censor whatever they choose when they choose to. They warn you before hand, post at your own violation. Much like this blog says "Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted."
"if you open your house to the public than you do lose some right of control"
Except when the rules of entering the house are posted and if someone breaks those rules, even if they are ambiguous, the repercussions are clearly stated. Just because the door is open, doesn't mean you can't kick someone out that you find offensive.
Fact is, the more control you give the individual, the more you take away from conglomerates. There is no black and white "freedom" of speech. The Internet just adds to the grayness.
a controlling group | 3:42 p.m. July 7, 2008
This reminds me of an interview with Bush Sr. who said: "We've got to do something about that Internet."
Bush Sr. of course was once the head of the CIA.
Bush Sr. of course was once the head of the CIA.
More lies | 3:59 p.m. July 7, 2008
Liberals want to take conservative radio off the air? This is new to me. My guess is no one has taught you about broadcasting in America. And for good reason.
At the risk of being censored, here, I will tell you that all Americans own the air waves. This means government can broadcast civil emergency warning. Once, broadcasters would have to air a State of a Union message from our president. This is too much to ask?
The fairness doctrine is hatred by conservative media. Conservatives claim their is a liberal bias. Under, the fairness doctrine, if the liberal press aired lies, conservatives who have equal access to the public air waves to present their side.
Notice, conservative media, deny the public any rights to a public asset. The conservative media must figure they have more to loose than to gain form fairness.
This proves their is no liberal press, only press conservatives don't want views express on a publicly owned resource that proves their propaganda wrong.
My first exposure to conservative ideas was Bill Buckley being aired on Public Broadcasting. Firing Line influenced many of America's conservatives. The evil fairness doctrine at work and those godless liberals.
At the risk of being censored, here, I will tell you that all Americans own the air waves. This means government can broadcast civil emergency warning. Once, broadcasters would have to air a State of a Union message from our president. This is too much to ask?
The fairness doctrine is hatred by conservative media. Conservatives claim their is a liberal bias. Under, the fairness doctrine, if the liberal press aired lies, conservatives who have equal access to the public air waves to present their side.
Notice, conservative media, deny the public any rights to a public asset. The conservative media must figure they have more to loose than to gain form fairness.
This proves their is no liberal press, only press conservatives don't want views express on a publicly owned resource that proves their propaganda wrong.
My first exposure to conservative ideas was Bill Buckley being aired on Public Broadcasting. Firing Line influenced many of America's conservatives. The evil fairness doctrine at work and those godless liberals.
Funny | 4:02 p.m. July 7, 2008
Funny the Deseret News would run a story like this because they often times do not appreciate sarcatic comments and do not post them.
Anonymous | 4:56 p.m. July 7, 2008
Conservative son not want federal funding of art, tv, movies, etc.
IS this the role govermentment?
NOt funding isnnot censorship, but actually pro-free speech,
by giving the creator full control over what ever they panit make, write, etc.
Consewrvative are clearly more free-speech than liberals.
Those are the facts.
IS this the role govermentment?
NOt funding isnnot censorship, but actually pro-free speech,
by giving the creator full control over what ever they panit make, write, etc.
Consewrvative are clearly more free-speech than liberals.
Those are the facts.
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I am sure the Founding Fathers didn't intend for it to be that way.