In Texas a monogamous 50 year old man can marry a 16 year old with parental consent.

A 50 year old polygamous man cannot take a 16 year old as a second wife, with parental consent, because polygamy is against the law. Therefore, the union defaults to statutory rape. If polygamy were legal, than legally, this would not be a problem.

If this isn't about polygamy, then legalize polygamy. If you have a problem with 16 year old marrying 50 year olds, change the law so nobody can do that, not just polygamist.

So now Teresa Jeffs has to go into court with a lawyer that WANTS her to lie and go against everything she hold dear, to prove that she (Natalie Molonis) can imtimidate and threaten just because she thinks the way a biased judge Barbara Walthers thinks. Are they going to get away with it??? AMERICA, STAND UP FOR THIS GIRLS' RIGHTS AS YOURS ARE ALSO IN GREAT JEOPARDY!!!! IS THIS CROOKED JUDGE AND ATTORNEY GOING TO BE ABLE TO RUIN THIS GIRLS' LIFE TO SAVE FACE???!!! CALL YOUR CONGRESSMEN, SEND LETTERS TO THE GOVERNOR--AMERICA, DO SOMETHING NOW!!!!

Wrong has been done against the FLDS. It's the CPS that should be investigated.

I have to giggle at the handful of FLDS people who post under different monikers to try and persuade the public that the law is on their side.

There is never a good reason for arranging and performing child-bride rapes. NEVER!

Also, can someone please tell me if these "poor picked on people" haven't done anything wrong, why the heck is Merrill Jessop in hiding?

You have inside information from a Grand Jury investigation that Teresa Jeffs is being forced to lie?

Or this accusation simply your own self-serving smokescreen trying to prevent the truth from coming out?

Mel wrote that the FLDS was trying to persuade us the law was on their side.

Actually, so far it has been on their side. The Texas supreme court rule the DPFS of Texas broke the law. Yes rape is bad, and I don't think anybody denies it, but in the United States you are innocent until proven guilty. Thank God we don't what people think happened does not codemn a person. While I hope tht no rape took place, I also kind of hope they prove something since this has cost Texas a bundle of money, with no resukts so far. I worry that the DPFS has acted in such an inept way, even if someone is guilty, they may go free.

We don't live in Utah, but we regularly read the internet version of the Deseret News. Honestly, we do it for the comments section following each news story. This news site has some of the most entertaining postings. Some are intelligent, some are biased, some are full of emotion, some are full of rage, we love them all. Keep up the postings, you have fans!

this is what you get when you build your life on a bunch of lies!

I'm glad [Out of State reader | 9:56 a.m.] enjoys reading the postings (especially on these weird topics). I try my best to be entertaining (though opinionated).

Personally, I hope the Grand Jury can get to the bottom of... How a search warrant gets signed by a Judge when NONE of the information it was based on was real (and could EASILY be verified as false if the people on the numerous bogus calls did even the most simple of investigations on the calls that punked them. Just checking caller ID would have told them it was a scam.

I thought judges were carefull to make sure the info being presented by someone asking for a search-warrant had been checked and double-checked. Evidently not in this case.

I understand how it snowballed after that, but I don't know how you pull up to someone's doorstep with tanks, swat teams, busses to ship kids, etc, with a warrant 100% based on lies.

Of course the FLDS have their legal issues too (and I think they will eventually catch up to them), but they aren't the Government. When the State-Government is evidently corrupt and breaking the law, that's a BIG-problem.

Uhm, "Felons I say!", I'm guessing you are referring to CPS and I agree with you.

I must agree with "Think," who posted at 9:06 AM.
Due to the actions in Texas, many of our rights are being threatened and we do need to do something about it.

Mel-it makes me laugh too! They post a zillion times and then one of them says "Well, it's apparent that public opinion has really turned in favor of the FLDS!" Um, no, they just post a lot!

I happen to believe the folks who post on here are just everyday folks such as myself. I also have to believe that all of the nasty, bitter anti-flds posts are by Mel the Troll posting under many alias.

I have been a lurker for some time without posting until today. In Anonymous post at 10:52, does he/she know the public opinion of the rest of the world as to the state of Texas? The FLDS is getting lots of sympathy. The life style is surely not agreed with if the accusations are true, which I have seen nothing to prove they are.
I am not FLDS nor LDS. (I also know there is a difference) I am from the southeast and many of us are reading the comments and keeping up with the latest news. All feel CPS and your rotten judge should be on trial instead of this little girl.

Anonymous...is right with all the post how many individuals are actually posting or is it just a handful with different names.

Not only Ol' Merril is in hiding.

There is nothing wrong with the Texas Judge, she is an amazing woman...It must be pretty scary to some of you people that some of these "little girls" just might speak up and tell what kinds of life they have been living and what is expected of them by a bunch of old men. At least one of these "little girls" now knows that her attorney is not afraid to stand up to the church, Utah attorneys or Willy. Hopefully it will be contagious more of the children's attorneys will get involved.

Texas is not done yet!

perhaps if the FLDS would quit taking helpless little children and filling their heads with doomsday theories and paranoia - then they would stand a chance of having a normal life. This is America, not Afganistan, and there's no excuse for creating an environment that stifles opportunity.

I know you have your beliefs, and I don't care how whack they are - but you should not force it on the children. It's unethical.

Give the children a chance at a real future, not a made-up one with talk of being a god with your own planet. How whack is that? How are they supposed to lead a normal life with that kind of craziness being pumped into their heads?

And even if you want to tell them these things, you don't need to segregate them from society so they have no clue about the real world. They will lead scared little lives instead of full opportunity-filled lives. Give them a chance to decide their own future, instead of creating little mini-me clones.

You people are cruel and don't even know it. How sad.

Hey there reality check....how wack are most religions....every religion has their own faith based reward for playing by the rules.

Every religion fills their childrens heads with their own version of a reward for playing by the religious rules.

Sit in an east Texas classroom and creation "science" is filling the heads of children to combat the dinosaur theory of evolution.

Every child grows up and to some degree rejects the fairy tails of their childhood and accepts some degree of their own interpretation of things.

Most people reject Santa Clause at some point only to teach their own kids the myth.

Flora rejected her upbringing in her teens.....Carolyn rejected her upbringing in her 30's......and Elisa questioned her decision to say yes from day one.

Life is an individual choice and we all grow to make those choices based on our upbringing at different rates.

There is no "normal" life......only varying degrees of interpretation of "normal"

Well stated! I'm not FLDS or LDS either and so many people I know (mostly Baptist/Christians) think CPS was WAY OUT OF LINE to take these kids from their parents.

If you think you can console yourself by thinking that that these posters are a bunch of FLDS, you probably fall into the category of those who refuse to believe CPS/Walthers made a huge mistake- even though two courts overturned her decision. But hey- maybe your just in denial- I'll give you that.

Not right to give my beliefs to my children? Ultimately my children will think for themselves and decide for themselves how they will live their life in this world. But giving them direction, love, guidance concerning moral and spirtual issues is the JOB OF THE PARENT. That's part of the issue with this whole FLDS thing!! Who determines what's right with regards to the raising of children? The government or parent (or realitycheck??)

FLDS has a right to raise their children according to their beliefs. Please don't give me brainwashing gig. When these kids are older they will make their own way, just like our children will.

Ok...put up or shut up. I've been watching this case almost from the start. When I see some concrete proof I'll give you some credit.
.
. Too bad your "incredible woman (Walthers)" was slapped down by two of her superior courts. What a great judge lol ???!!!
.
Not FLDS in VA

I do not need to console myself...I am not supporting a bunch of child molesting old men. Or women who choose to be three steps behind a man all the time and told exactly what to think and when to think it. Or that allow their daughters to be married to old men! Nor am I in hiding...of course I am sure they are all in hiding because they have done nothing wrong...right!

Did anyone notice the FLDS chick in her sunglasses. That seemed a little modern/trendy to me :) These moms just might break out any moment- watch out CPS

Realitycheck stated "perhaps if the FLDS would quit taking helpless little children and filling their heads with doomsday theories and paranoia - then they would stand a chance of having a normal life. This is America, not Afganistan, and there's no excuse for creating an environment that stifles opportunity."

The same can be said of the kids attending Berkely.

Are you really so stupid that you think FLDS can't wear sun glasses? It's amazing the mis-conceptions people have about them.

I hope you were just trying to be funny.

I have to giggle at the handful of CPS people who post under different monikers to try and persuade the public that the law is on their side.

There is never a good reason for taking children from their parents without hard evidence of abuse.

Also, can someone please tell me if these "poor picked on CPS people" haven't done anything wrong, why the heck can't they get any other judge other than Walthers to hear them?

yes - it is the job of the parents to provide guidance and raise their children according to their beliefs. It is also the job of the parents to provide an oportunity to be successful. And since you people give only 8th grade educations and do not allow people to have any property, how are they to leave and prosper? Especially when they are afraid of everyone.

Why do you think everyone that's left has had to either be "cast out" with nothing or "escape" with nothing?

You've got a little slave/prison thing going and don't like the criticism? Then allow your people to grow and prosper instead of hiding them from the world and preventing them from being successful.

If you raised your children with the understanding that at 18 they would need to commit suicide so they would go to heaven, would that be ok? At what point is your teachings and lifestyle considered abuse? I think you're there now - you disagree.

I just feel bad for your children. Hopefully they can "escape" although since you've raised them to be afraid of everyone, they probably won't.

Yeah - good parenting.

Day after day, article after article, the same FLDS posts are made about how the FLDS are being persecuted and the State of Texas has a vendetta, blah, blah blah. The wording is always the same, the phrases are always the same. I don't live in Utah or Texas or Arizona, there's no Mormons anywhere around here that I know of, I've never even ever met one. I don't know anyone who wasn't disappointed that those kids were returned to the compound. I don't know anyone who doesn't think it's appalling how the women are treated and used as baby machines and assigned and reassigned to whatever old geezer their self apppointed prophet chooses. They all express disbelief that in this century in America there are people living in virtual slavery and the government can't stop it.

You have great misconceptions about us, realitycheck.

*I have my GED, so there goes your 8th grade education theory. As far as I'm concerned, it's just a piece of paper, but I have it in case I ever need it to apply for a job. I'm plenty capable of getting all the education I want.

*I'm very successful in my work, and I honestly feel I could be successful anywhere I moved to.

*Just because I reside on UEP land doesn't mean I'm forbidden from owning property. Many people own homes in other cities & towns for when they're working on jobs away from home.

*I'm not afraid of everyone outside the FLDS. I do a lot of work for very fine people not of my faith.

Anonymous @ 1:26

You see what you want to see and generally associate with people of your own likeness. As an FLDS person, I've seen quite the opposite from MANY people who have nothing to do with us and don't care at all for our religion. All they care about is that the Constitution is upheld.

Now we have an FLDS member claiming to be an FLDS member admitting to liking being an FLDS member.

Read what that person wrote, certified education, works outside the FLDS community etc.

Now line up and accuse him/her of being an imposter, having a worthless piece of paper, or not being as happy as they claim to be.

Why don't we quit trying to save people from themselves and accept cultural and religious differences.

What an adventure!

It's as simple as this. If there wasn't anything illegal going on at the ranch, then why has Merril fled?

He is not on vacation, he is not traveling, he went underground! And no matter how you FLDS supporters try to spin it, Merril's actions speak volumes.

I can at least respect Willie for sticking around and battling it out.

J-man........I know where Merril is but I'm not telling. So there.....LOL

Merril has a heck of a head start and I would imagine he is at the FLDS facility in Mexico.

spelunking has nothing to do with this

zxcvbnm 1:52pm

We're not trying to ave people from themselves. We're trying to save an entire generation of children from an abusive environment. I don't care about the parents - they are what they are - but to destroy the futures of all those children is just wrong.

From the Creek 1:32pm

You are raising your children in a confined area with little hope of a future. If you're going to do that, then trade places with some Afgans. They would love to come to America and take advantage of all the opportunities, and your life there wouldn't really change since you live like that already. Of course, it will still be abusive for your children, but at least everyone else lives that way so they would not have to hide from the world.

You all seem to be putting your rights over your children's rights. That's about as opposite of good parenting as you can get. A parent's goal should be to raise free-willed children that can go after all the opportunities out there. Instead you raise scared little clones that don't have a clue about the real world.

yeah - real good parents - right.

To realitycheck. Again, I think you may be trying these folks by your own narrow standards. What in your estimation is success? Fullfillment? A $500,000 dollar house in the burbs with a 50 year mortgage? Plenty of prescription meds? Kids that are exposed to MTV, teen violence? STDs? Quit trying to run everyone else's lives.

Spelunking has nothing to do with this? Maybe someone has caved in and is talking.

OK Reality check.........go save your own village........worry about your own children....and quit sticking your nose into the private lives of people you know nothing about.

Better yet......go get a tank and drive on over to Afganistan. You want to help so much they might just let you in without a burka and put you on the front lines. Just don't wear a crucifix on your crusade....it makes a great target.

Anonymous, you say all of the FDLS posters are representing the views of very few. You quote them as saying, "I don't live in Utah or Texas or Arizona, there's no Mormons anywhere around here that I know of, I've never even ever met one. I don't know anyone who wasn't disappointed that those kids were returned to the compound."

Well, you don't know me. I am Mormon, I live in Utah. I have never supported any brand of polygamy as practiced today. I have followed this story every day since the beginning and I am happy that the children have been returned to their homes and parents. Governments are very powerful and are the makers and enforcers of the laws of society. To allow government to break their (our) own laws because of outrage over the actions of a group some despise is a terrible abuse of governmental power. It is a slipery slope because it leads to unlawful action against another group and then another. It eventually leads to tyrany. I am against polygamy, against the abuse of our laws, and in favor of the constitution.

Hey now 3:14pm -

my standards aren't narrow - the entire world is fair game. Do what you want, when you want, and how you want, as long as it's legal and doesn't hurt other people.

Narrow is how the FLDS live, and they hurt other people - namely the children. What don't you get?

realitycheck,
Did you totally ignore my last post? You seem to keep posting the same stuff no matter how many facts I keep confusing you with.

Tell me specifically *what* it is that our children are being denied. Give me some examples, please.

What is "hope of a future"? Believe me, I live a very fulfilling life, and I'm going to make it even better. For one thing, I'm seriously considering becoming a firefighter and EMT besides all the dozens of other things I'm involved in. Of course, that's not my entire goal in life, but just a fulfilling part of the journey.

As "Hey now" put it, there are many ways to enjoy and fulfill our lives; not just your narrow standards. If I felt my life would be better outside of the FLDS, nobody is keeping me here, and I could do as I desire. So can anyone else.

A school teacher, police officer, neighbor etc who is an adult cannot have sex with a 12,13,14,15,16 year old girl. Neither can polygamists.

To say that polygamists should be given rights to sexual abuse that other men do not have is wrong.

If they want to marry a 16 year old legally and it is legal under the law with parental consent do so. If they are already married then divorce your adult wife and marry the girl. That simple.

JUSTIN , AMEN,AMEN AND AMEN!

I agree with zxcvbnm!

ok, From the Creek - answer this -

If your daughter turns 18 and assuming she doesn't have any children or a husband yet (crazy assumption but work with me here) - and she told you she wants to go out-of-state to college - would you help her? Would you provide the beginnings of a new life, or would she be cast out for wanting something new? Would she have to "escape" or would you drive her out there and help her pick out a place to live? Would you give her some "starting-out" money or would you say "never come back, apostate".

If after college she married a non-FLDS man, and had children, then came to your house for the holidays, would you embrace her and love her, or would you shun her and tell her she is no longer family? What if she was wearing shorts - would you tell her she was your child and you love her no matter what?

If she was smart and successful, would you acknowledge it and be proud of her? or would you tell her there is no glory in heaven unless you submit to the FLDS way?

be truthful.

Not about polygamy - you are exactly right - polygamists should not be given rights that other do not have because of their religion.

Reality Check makes a good point - Parents have the right to raise their children according to their beliefs - but not if those beliefs are abusive. Handing a teen-age girl over to an adult male to be raped is abusive.

Regarding the lack of opportunity - the huge percentage of FLDS children do not go to college. They may attend courses to obtain technical jobs such as EMT, as "From the Creek" said, but ask "From the Creek" how many FLDS engineers, Doctors, Lawyers, social workers, or English professors do you know? If a teen-age FLDS member said "hey Mom and Dad, I think I want to go to Utah State and get a degree in Agricultural Engineering" he or she would be shunned and cut-off and loose their family and their chance to go to heaven. That may not be illegal or even abusive, but I believe it is wrong.

It is also WRONG to allow women to be assigned and reassigned like property. No money exchanged hands, but it is slavery.

realitycheck are you ever going to stop beating your sanctimony drum? You're like an Irishman on a bicycle, you're making my ess tired.

It's none of your business how other people choose to raise their kids. They don't have to raise them to YOUR STANDARDS.

What don't you get?

imo, most of these poor women are so imbred by generations of marrying relatives that all the spunk and fight has gone from them. thier children are probably their only consolation. i feel so sorry for them, but we cannot help them if they do not have the guts to help themselves.
that is why slavery lasted so long in this country, people who feel they have no other choice are too beaten down to fight.

realitycheck, here's a little reality check for you. Who in the world do you think you are that you think you have the right to demand answers from anyone?
Why would you accuse the flds of excersizing too much control of their own children, and then demand they answer to you.

You are beyond belief.

well, Man alive - I'll stop "beating the drum" when the FLDS stops creating slave/drones instead of free people. That's child abuse. What don't you get?

And I don't want them to raise their kids to MY standards - I want them to raise their children to a reasonable standard that provides for future freedom and free will. Again, what don't you get?

None of this is anyone's business, unless it affects helpless children. Oh, wait - it does affect helpless children. I guess it is TOTALLY our business. Do you understand that?

Besides, if they can raise their kids like that, I have every right to tell them how screwed up that is.

And I have said the "what if they want to go to college" on previous posts, and it simply succeeds in shutting up the other side. No one from FLDS has answered, because we already know the answer...