Deseret News | Utahns' Obama monkeys racist?

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Utahns' Obama monkeys racist?

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Americans before anything else | 3:53 p.m. June 14, 2008

Until we all consider ourselves Americans before anything else, we will never be able to unite as a country. Shouldn't we be less concerned about the race of Obama and more concerned with the fact that he refuses to put his hand over his heart or say the Pledge of Allegiance? To me that says that he doesn't consider himself American. How can we allow this man to be the leader of this country if he won't even honor this country's flag?

here we go | 4:15 p.m. June 14, 2008

I remember the spiro agnew dart boards back in the 70's and every election has something for the capitalist marketing genius to make a buck off of. The Sockobama monkey is this elections version.

I'm black and not offended,, in fact I want to know why the desnews didn't include a link to the website so I would be able to order one for myself.

If all of you offended folks would just get over yourselves and let people have fun with the election you might learn that there is less racism in the country than you are imagining.

sweet love | 4:29 p.m. June 14, 2008

What is it with this racism stuff. Please isn't enough of us Americans educated enough to know that people are people.I have one question if you die and if there is a heaven or hell where do you think you'll be going.I know some say that if its with the other race then I rather go to hell..... Well keep on your journey because you are well on your way. And get this their are blacks,whites,latinos, you name it they are there too. So if you can't get love in your heart for your fellow man while you are here on earth its not going to get any better when you die, you're going to have to spend eternity with them and thats forever. The world is made up of two types of people the Good and the Bad.

Comments continue below

Curious George | 4:29 p.m. June 14, 2008

So this all comes down to Curious George, huh? Lets all just gang up and blame the scrawny little monkey.

Need a little diversity | 4:30 p.m. June 14, 2008

It's true. The self rightious and socially ignorant have all gathered in Zion. I for one am ashammed at the comments on this one.

PR move | 4:37 p.m. June 14, 2008

I don't believe it was racially motivated but I do believe it was a PR move. How stupid can you be to not recognize that this will be offensive given the history (or perhaps we give them the benefit of the doubt that they did not "know" history). Only in Utah.

Southern-raised | 4:52 p.m. June 14, 2008

I don't know where I've been all these years that I didn't hear words like monkey or even porch monkey used in reference to blacks. My family (you can tell this is way back when) would have been as shocked if I'd used the n-word as they would have been if I'd used the f-word. It simply wasn't allowed to refer to anyone by any slang term for their race or country in my family.

However, when I was living in Pennyslvania, about 30 years ago, I did have an elderly neighbor tell me, in all seriousness (and in front of my children, who thought it as ridiculous as I did) that the Negro race came about when white explorers mated with monkeys in Africa. I told her right sharply that I thought the Negro race pre-dated European exploration of Africa by a very, very long time. That's the ONLY connection I could ever make from my personal experience.

I consider the doll a typical piece of political garbage, certainly not indicative of the mindset of the people of Utah generally (or any of the many states I've lived in). Tasteless, in fact. But mostly just silly.

wrz | 5:43 p.m. June 14, 2008

"Does this mean i have to get rid of my Curious George collection, just to prove I'm not racist?"

My gosh! I just noticed that my mouse pad has a picture of Curious George on it.

Anonymous | 5:55 p.m. June 14, 2008

Is it possible to un-grant statehood?

Words Worth Repeating | 6:26 p.m. June 14, 2008

Kudos to Howard Tayler at 10:13a.m. for hitting the nail squarely on the head!!!His words are worth repeating: Racism is the creation of a double-standard. The racists here are those who are crying Jim Crow.

easy does it | 6:34 p.m. June 14, 2008

Its easy to do these things in Utah. Come out here to Mississippi or Alabama and do those things and see what happens.

ha ha | 6:44 p.m. June 14, 2008

i loved easy does it comments i just feel bad for the people that did this because basically if you are racist you are unedcuated preety much.

Life Elevated??? | 6:52 p.m. June 14, 2008

The new Utah slogan "Life Discriminated." It's been a long time coming and perhaps this is the tipping point that reveals the underbelly of Utah culture.

Ronald Young | 7:07 p.m. June 14, 2008

It appears that you cannot make fun of Mr. Obama, what makes him Special, If you put yourself out there you take the Heat. Free Speech. I don't thin the problem is all Obama himself. I can't stand him but I see him as a good man in general, who was raised well and makes friends easily. I think its the people around him that are Sensitive. That its not PC to say this or that about him. This evokes fear in the weak and they go looking for others to spread the Cancer to or they want everyone to be in their Lock Step. That takes the fun out it. There is not enough Duct Tape for me to take Obama Seriously. I am sure the Spell will wear off everyone soon.

RE: Ronald Young | 7:28 p.m. June 14, 2008

This is not about Obama my friend as you have missed the point. It is about racism and how we as Utahns treat the diverse population in Utah. I can see your narrow focus on this as it is how it has been done in Utah since 1847 but my friend times are changing and we need to be aware and rational to the diverse population in Utah.

Tell you what | 7:46 p.m. June 14, 2008

Why don't we just ask Sister Gladys Knight if she thinks it's racist?

To: Tell you what | 7:56 p.m. June 14, 2008

Why don't we ask Gladys Knight? I can ask myself as an a proud black man and I do think the church is true but I am not gullable enough to think that I am accepted fully for who I am and I cannot ignore the racist past. With that being said these comment have nothing to do with the church but Utah. Last I checked Ms. Knight does not reside in Utah so her perspective would not mount to a hill of beans. Stop taking the shining examples of our race and presenting them as a feel good story. Much work is still needed to be done.

Cindy C | 8:33 p.m. June 14, 2008

I would like to know who came out with the story. Was it a white male? If not, what was the intent for bringing this to the attention of the general public? I would bet, knowing Obama's humor as we all do, that he is secretly laughing along with many of us. Whether meant in a racist manner or not, can we not, as human beings, see the humor in things? I have my own sock monkey and I am a white female (the monkey is modeled after ME). Sock monkeys are funny... I don't care who you are, that's just funny.... (Larry the Cable Guy). Sometimes you just have to laugh. My motto is, "better to laugh than to cry."

Anonymous | 9:11 p.m. June 14, 2008

Whether these people are racist or not I don't know.

But for the sake arguement let's say they are.

In a country that cherishes its freedoms which include freedom of speech and association.

We are free dislike who we want dislike and to say so publicly.

And others are free to disagree and say so publicly.

What scares mre the most, more than sock puppets, are people who want take away those cherished freedoms simply because the don't like what is being said, or they are offended.

Attempts to shut down voices because you think it will right soe past wrongs, is not the way to go. But only takes away rights from all of us.

I think freedom of speech should be more important.

And for good or bad that includes hate speech.

And unless our black brothers forget, they have culpabilty in the slave trade.

It's a well know historic fact that rival tribes would capture people from the other tribe and sell them slave traders.

And most of he white in tis country came after the civil war and never had anyting to do with it.

There were many bad owners, but most treated their slaves well.

vote for Obama | 9:57 p.m. June 14, 2008

the odds of Obama winning Utah????? 500 billion to 1

Atlman | 10:20 p.m. June 14, 2008

for anoymous@9:11 P.M.
"They were many bad owners, but most treated their slaves well." ( so it was ok, right?)

Please tell me that you are not from Utah and that you are not LDS. Please tell me that you are a memmber of the KKK somewhere. I would feel so much better to know that you are ignorant from lack of education and travel, and not by choice. If by some chance you are LDS, please seek the counsel of your Bishop as to why that sentence is pure ignorance. Oh, and btw...not LDS here, but think too much of some of the LDS Faith to just let this slide.

Give me a break! | 10:30 p.m. June 14, 2008

Either completely naive (or stupid, or extremely racist. One or the other. Just shows many white people just don't get it.

Tell you what | 10:49 p.m. June 14, 2008

I assure you I don't think if Ms. Knight weighed in on the issue she'd be the least bit confused that it's a racist characterization. I thought her answer would have been clear and I was using that as a clear comparison with the self-congratulations of last week. I'm sorry someone thinks I'm another of the people clinging to denial like a lifeline.

Much does, indeed, need to be done and it's really, really sad how little recognition there is of that fact. The comments to this story indicate how deluded most LDS are living in their self-referential bubbles.

Agreeing with Atlman | 11:35 p.m. June 14, 2008

Excellent points! Thanks for your perspective! But the sentence I found even MORE objectionable from Anonymous@9:11 was: "And unless our black brothers forget, they have culpabilty in the slave trade," with the inter-tribal justification.

As Reagan once said, there's a time-honored phrase deeply rooted in our US agricultural tradition that would be a VERY fitting response. But if I used it, even if I weren't trying to avoid such language anyway, the DesNews monitors probably wouldn't print my post.

There are stories of certain tribes selling out their rivals to slave traders, yes--whether out of spite or fear, who knows? But using those stories to blame the ENTIRE SLAVE TRADE on Blacks is just flat-out racist. What a crock of... well, never mind.

Let's put it another way: Black people as a whole have every bit as much culpability in the slave trade as the Jews did in the Holocaust and the Vietnamese villagers did at My Lai. But if Anonymous@9:11 really wants to believe the KKK and their sympathizers, it's a personal choice.

It's not racist | 11:46 p.m. June 14, 2008

The people who put the puppet out say there is no racial intent. Therefore only a reactionary fool would look for racism where there is none. After the nasty, evil things said and portrayed about GWB the last eight years, anything said about BHO is certainly fair. All's fair in politics, right. Obama and his supporters cannot cry "racist" at ever thing said they don't like. It doesn't fly. Hopefully, BHO won't win the election and then it's over anyway. Except there will of course be those who claim he lost because of race. If you're one of those, you're the reactionary fool mentioned earlier.

Anonymous | 12:18 a.m. June 15, 2008

Oh my goodness, I know there are many good things thought in semenary but it is very clear that critical and rational thinking ar not among them. I think many comments defending this act and the perception of minorities is well just plain bigoted.

RE: altman | 12:50 a.m. June 15, 2008

I never said it was okay. Don't you dare put words in my mouth.

Is that all you got from what I said?

My point is blacks helped that's all. And they knew what they doing getting rid of their enemies. And it is wrong to excuse it.

NOthing justifies slavery, not even their past behavoir.

And is it not all the white people that are at fault. that is all.

And in fact it was mostly just few white people. some spanish, portuguese, muslim, there is blame to go all around. slavery has been around a long time, the whites were relativeley johnny-come-latelies

And we don't have to get it because we had nothing to do with it.

And almost all whites in amerca today had nothing to do with it. And therefore do not need to apologize.

It's amazing you say people are free to hate and say so publicly and the nuts start falling from the trees to ridicule self righteously.

It is interesting you folow that up with an attack of the LDS, doesn't that make you hypocrite?

If blacks shouldn't be rediculed, doesn't that go for the LDS also? Or are religeous beliefs fair game?

re: atlman | 12:59 a.m. June 15, 2008

just like a liberal to take things out of context in an attempt to prove a point.

have you no integrity sir?

re:altman | 1:07 a.m. June 15, 2008

Your views are really really scary.

Are we to only have speech and viewpoints and words and actions that are government approved?

naacp approved?

Aclu approved?

liberal approved?

democrat party approved?

And they claim they are not facists.

I would rather live a world where poeple have the freedom of conscience and speech.

re:atleman | 1:14 a.m. June 15, 2008

That's a very pathetic attempt to shut down someone's voice by suggesting, fraudulently and deceptively, that they are racist.

Modus operandi of the left.

re: atlman | 1:20 a.m. June 15, 2008

I would hate to have to live the vanilla utopia that atlman wants to live in.

True freedom (and also true equality) means you can be offended, you will hear things you disagee with. But that's okay because you are free to offend and disagee.

Life isn't fair, nor was it meant to be.

Anonymous | 1:40 a.m. June 15, 2008

If we can't have an honest and open and frank discussion about the races without someone screaming racism,

then how can we ever resolve our race problems?

Holy Cow! | 3:44 a.m. June 15, 2008

"re:atlman," or I assume "Anonymous@9:11," this is "Agreeing with atlman." A few words for ya:

1) When you make controversial arguments, be fully prepared for people to "put words in your mouth." As you said, life isn't fair, nor was it meant to be. And if you don't wish to be misunderstood--say exactly what you mean the first time.

2) Aren't you putting words of your own in atlman's mouth, and probably mine, too? (And plenty of them, I might add.)

3) I'm not much of a liberal. The only Utopia I imagine is one where Christlike people are actually charitable with each other and their differences, and don't judge or make accusations about fascism when they disagree. I also think the PC movement is a gross overcorrection that won't lead us there.

4) Where did we attack LDS people? I missed that--why would I ever tear down my own religion? And atlman was fairly respectful.

5) Not seeing the ACLU-endorsed views here. Sorry.

6) Get some sleep. It'll help. Not a bad idea for me, too, come to think of it.

I look forward to a more REASONED future discussion!

Atlman | 8:07 a.m. June 15, 2008

re:Holy Cow & Anonymous@9:11 p.m.

Please, as Holy Cow asks, tell me where in my original posting I attacked the LDS Faith? My last
sentence makes it very clear that " I think too much of some of the LDS Faith to let this slide". I also earlier said " I hope you are not LDS" thus showing I have too much respect for the LDS Church to think that your views are reflective of LDS teachings. Attack me for disagreeing with what you said about slavery, but please tell me where I showed anything but respect for the LDS Faith.

Sarah | 9:24 a.m. June 15, 2008

Look at Obama's ears. They're what we refer to, on people of ANY color, as "monkey ears". Don't you guys think it's even the slightest bit possible that's where their idea for these puppets came from? It's not funny in the slightest, and it certainly wasn't smart, but it wasn't necessarily intended to be hurtful.

I've spent the majority of my life in SLC, and I wasn't even aware that there had ever been a connotation between African Americans and monkeys until just a few years ago. It's not a common statement, and it's not something that's been perpetuated in a very long time. It's certainly possible that the Lawsons had never heard that comment before, either.

I'm not excusing the puppets, which I think are in pretty poor taste, but do any of you honestly that a man with ears like Obama's has never heard that comment before? He makes fun of his own ears constantly, as do other members of his race; why is it only a problem when a white person joins in on the teasing?

Me | 9:47 a.m. June 15, 2008

In a Google search that lasted all of 10 seconds, the first three links showed 26 different pictures portraying GWB as a monkey or chimp, a website that sells mousepads featuring a slew of those same pictures, and a website called "Bush or Chimp?", with loads of comments and pictures to back up their opinion.

I'm not a fan of the man in the slightest, and I don't think those puppets are even remotely funny, but why is that acceptable and this isn't? Obama's ears make him resemble a monkey, just like GWB's facial expressions make HIM resemble one. There's nothing racist about that.

to Sarah | 10:56 a.m. June 15, 2008

You walk around calling people "monkey ears"? What other physical characteristics do you single out for derision? And do you always compare them to lower life forms?

Charming!

justice? | 3:51 p.m. June 15, 2008

This company's website now states a simple apology and that they will no longer make this toy. I feel more sad than happy because it truly appears that we have not progressed at all. The Lawson's ahve now been the victims of cyber-space lynching rather than granted the freedoms of their county and the benefits of free enterprise. Voicing concerns with your wallet and refusing to buy the toy would have been more effective but still allowed them their business. I hope no one threatened them personally.

Re: to Sarah | 4:33 p.m. June 15, 2008

No, I don't walk around calling people anything but their names. I never claimed otherwise. But on a multitude of occasions, all over the country, I have heard ears that protrude the way Obama's do referred to as "monkey ears". My own ears poke out a bit, though not as much as his do, and when I was younger the tips were pointed like President Kimball's, but they've since rounded out (my brother's haven't, though). When I was little people, including my parents, used to call me "Yoda Baby". I don't find either of the terms offensive in the slightest, though both terms have been applied to me at one time or another. It's just what people call ears shaped like that, a descriptive term. Stop looking for offense where none is intended.

RE:atlman | 4:38 p.m. June 15, 2008

YOur view of a christlike people is a noble goal.

The methods used here are facist in nature designed to compel others to conform in speech and action.

They will ridicule, belittle, embarass others and even use force to capitulate others to their way.

That is NOT Christs way.

He allows your agency foremost.

And Uses love, and teaching, and long suffering and patience, in order to get real change in people.

Re: Neutral backup | 5:51 p.m. June 15, 2008

Brothers and sisters beaten because of color-it does happen---BOTH WAYS! I grew up getting picked on and beat up because I am NOT black. I am native american mostly, but that didn't matter either. Stop calling it black and white--it's just mean people being bullies. People pick on each other every day in some form or fashion-there are bullies, bigots to you, on both sides! By the way, I don't want a puppet.

A thinker | 6:41 p.m. June 15, 2008

I agree wtih "Justice?" All of us should be appalled at the behavior and narrow mindedness shown by these comments. I may or may not find the sock puppet offensive, I may or may not agree that it's a cute toy. I do think that the Lawson's are victims of reverse discrimination and that their civil rights have been violated. We live in a country which allows us to express our feelings (blog)and voice our intolerance, yet we do not acknolwedge that others have their rights too. Not everyone wants to buy the toy, not everyone believes it was racist. We have truly made little progress in the last few decades. It is one thing to express your feelings by witholding your financial support (or giving it) it's another thing to reinforce racist beliefs by lynching the Lawsons. It's easy to do when you don't know the people. Hopefully, the Lawson's will be shielded from photographers and the media and that their safety isn't danger.

Anonymous | 7:35 p.m. June 15, 2008

David and Elizabeth Lawson were willing to hold an honorable man up to national derision by equating him with a monkey and profit financially from their insulting behavior and *they* are the victims? =o

Oh yeah? | 8:53 p.m. June 15, 2008

"Hopefully, the Lawson's will be shielded from photographers and the media and that their safety isn't danger."

'Cause I don't suppose they'd want anyone making sock monkey puppets of their likenesses. Maybe they have kids and don't want to be humiliated in front of them. Or maybe they don't want their kids to face their friends knowing that some of them could have David and Elizabeth sock monkeys at home to laugh at.

Yeah! That wouldn't be very nice, would it?

Re: altlamn | 10:30 p.m. June 15, 2008

I forgot to mention the liberals will also use haraasment, threats (legal and otherwise), lawsuits, berating, derision, an on an on

to get people to fall in line lockstep with them.

I think "oh yeah" just proved my point.

And for anonymous 7:35: honor is subjective and certainly up for debate, hence the election process.

re:anonymous 7:35 | 10:36 p.m. June 15, 2008

Does honor cover liberals and democrats.

Because I don't hear speaking against people attacking the "honor" or conservatives and republicans.

And treating them with honor and respect.

It's always a oneway street with you liberals.

Holy Cow again | 2:23 a.m. June 16, 2008

So--"RE:atlman," I also posted much earlier under "Political Naivete." I promise I really do have a life--but it might help to know where I'm coming from.

You realize you're in an exchange with two different people, right? I'm not "atlman." But you're so busy shouting names like "liberal" and spouting the tired rhetoric of "GOP good, Democrats evil"--are you interested in listening? I hope so.

Partisan politics is the TRUE evil here that distracts us from being kind and charitable--qualities that require abandoning racism and prejudice in any form. That's not PC, "liberal" propaganda, or some far-fetched ACLU plot--it's a key part of being truly humane, and even Christlike.

Yet your partisanship blinds you to a key fact: You're seeing other people as enemies who really want many of the same things you want--they're just taking a different approach to getting it. Sometimes for the better, more often for the worse (agreed, I think). But also for better/worse, those "liberals" are also people, and thus not that much different from you.

As for "honor," neither Republicans NOR Democrats have it. That's a concept all politicians talk about but very few practice. More "political naivete." Sorry.

Amy | 8:19 a.m. June 16, 2008

"I do think that the Lawson's are victims of reverse discrimination and that their civil rights have been violated."

Nobody has a "civil right" to have their business practices insulated from criticism.

"The Lawson's ahve [sic] now been the victims of cyber-space lynching rather than granted the freedoms of their county and the benefits of free enterprise."

If you want the benefits of free enterprise, you have to take risks. Theirs didn't pay off--companies discontinue products all the time because of consumer reaction. I hardly see how some disgruntled emails counts as a "lynching"!

Re: Holy Cow again | 8:26 a.m. June 16, 2008

I'm not the person you were replying to, but I just wanted to say that I completely agree with you 100%. The other political party, whichever it happens to be, is not the "enemy", and neither are the members of that party. Bi-partisanship is the only real way to accomplish anything good in this country. I really wish people would stop thinking of bi-partisan as a bad word. People are people, and whether or not we agree with their politics, they believe them because they think their party has the best ideas for bringing about good. We don't have to agree with them to respect their position. Very good post, thanks for an uplifting comment on such a negative thread!

Anonymous | 2:27 p.m. June 16, 2008

I'm sorry. What's racist about a monkey? What about an elephant, or tiger, or bear?

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