At this point it looks CPS has no proof of any wrong doing by the FLDS. Why are they not reuniting the children with their moms before April of 2009 since none of the reasons for the raid are true? Absolutely ridiculous. Sad to be an American.

"Barlow's husband, Leroy Steed Jeffs, 55, did not appear in court today. When reached by phone in Hildale, he told a CPS worker that he had seen the family service plan and that, "at this time he was not interested" in participating, Kenndy said."

The only way this is a good strategy is if he actually wants to have his parental rights terminated. Wow.

this is one thing that concerns me about this case
fathers that refuse to take part in saving there kids.. you really have to question what they have to hide

It appears CPS is more concerned with cultivating a negative impression of the FLDS than with justice and protecting the children. A judge has already stated that public opinion is playing a role in the way they are judging the cases, and CPS is doing everything they can to poison the well. I hope this situation drives the government to revoke CPS's immunity from prosecution. They've shown themselves to be the US Gestapo. They shoot first, ask questions later, and don't have to take responsibility for the lives they destroy in their overzealousness.

It's such a shame that the State of Texas and the CPS have done little to detail what actual abuse there is at the FLDS community. I feel it is criminal the actions they have taken in the name of protection.

We all need protection from such agencys.

The Police in the United States really hold all citizens hostage to legal blackmail.

I have not heard or read of a single case of abuse
in the FLDS compound.

Americans need to turn the Televison off and stop
being brainwashed by the constant rumor mill of the TV news.

This is an insult to American justice. CPS needs to start telling the truth, and needs to deal with these families individually, not as a group.

What a sham. I would have been outraged if at 14 someone said I was pregnant and I wasn't. I guess TX doesn't want any truth to get in the way of their PR campaign.

Leroy Steed Jeffs is a coward! You would think that this man would at least be there for his wife and children if he cared at all about them. Oh! a slip of my mind, I forgot! that FLDS women are just breeders.

Well CPS blew it again. Not pregnant! How dare she be not pregnant. We the gods of child welfare command you to be pregnant!
OOPS it didn't work.
Her mother,almost 40 years old obtained employment, Duh I thought CPS says the women are too uneducated to be employable and need to be retrained and schooled.
Hmm wrong again.
Why is it assumed that all the women are dumb and uneducated??
Do you need to be uneducated to choose to be a stay at home mother and NOT join the rat race?
Oh I forgot stay at home mothers are bad. CPS says get a job, put your kids in daycare, trust the public school to show them the way.
What a joke!!

THIS TEXAS CPS COMPLAINT AND JUDGE'S ORDER AGAINST THE FLDS CUSTODY CASE IS BASED ON:

(X) [POLYGAMY "SLIPPERY-SLOPE ARGUMENT"] AS A FALLACY," AND

(X) [RELIGIOUS FREEDOM "SLIPPERY-SLOPE"] ARGUMENT AS FALLACY.

FIND THE DEFINITION OF (48) OR MORE TYPES OF FALLACIES. (WITH OR WITHOUT A PRIORI PROBABILITY)

SIGNED: RECKIPS

First it turns out that the so-called underage mommys are up to 22 and even 27 years old, now an allegedly pregnant 14-year-old isn't pregnant. The girl ought to know, eh? The CPS lies keep falling!!

Y'all Texans reading this really need to get on the phone to your legislators telling them to pull the plug on this travesty!! If 1000 or 2000 people call every state senator and rep and tell them to yank the budget for this abomination, they'll have to give the kids back and walk away!!

I thought that was quite an interesting statement also. I can not imagine "not wanting to participate" when it comes to my children. Sure didn't take him long to high-tail it out the compound.

Ok lets look at the history of this case. The phone call that started this mess was made to an anti-polygamy activist Flora Jessop supposedly on a telephone line that didn’t have caller ID. The call looks like a hoax even though the Texas CPS hasn’t admitted it yet, the Texas Rangers have. Now it seems that about that time, Flora Jessop’s sister, Carolyn Jessop was getting her paperback edition of her book, Escape, into print. Wow!! What publicity for her book!! A Raid on the FLDS compound. That would make her millions more because of the interest in the FLDS lifestyle.

Now lets look at the Warren Jeffs thing. He suppoedly made Elissa Wall age thirteen marry her older cousin who was ninteen. It wasn’t until years later that she left the FLDS and brought charges against Jeffs and her husband for forcing her into marriage and rape. It turns out that her husband left her because she was pregnant by another man. Now she writes a supposedly ‘tell all’ book about the FLDS and it just turns out that it’s coming out at the same time as the raid. More big bucks!!!

Follow the money people

My mind is already made up, don't confuse me with the truth!

CPS is unable to correctly guess ages or pregnancy with their psychic tests, and this judge doesn’t want to hear it? It only goes to the heart of the frigging issue, that CPS is filled with the biggest liars in Texas with the possible exception of the governor.

Why don't they just give the child a pregnancy test? Tests don't lie. People do. That's the easiest way to tell who's being honest here.

This just keeps getting worse and worse. I was at first glad to see Texas doing something about the child abuse problem, however every accusation in court turns out to be false. The only good I can see from this is that some of the members who have been too scared to leave now have the opportunity to leave.
As far as fathers not wanting to participate in CPS plans, I would not want to either. If the whole case gets thrown out, but they are participating just fine, the fathers might still have to continue jumping through hoopes by "participating." It is almost an admission of guilt.

I would be outraged if my "dad" didn't want to bother showing up at the hearing to defend and support me. No wonder this woman moved off the ranch - her "husband" is a slime-bag!

The state wants these kids reunited with their "parents" and they are starting with the cases in which fathers and mothers CLAIM their children, or are willing to come to court and do what they have to to get them back. What about all the others left who's parents aren't willing to show up to claim them? At least some MOTHERS are willing to show up.

FLDS doesn't need the media, or CPS or anyone else to make them look bad - they do a really good job of it all by themselves.

Well, there goes the pregnant 14 year old story down the tubes! I am beginning to be more and more upset about the way this whole situation has been handled. Once CPS makes up their minds, no evidence is accepted to the contrary--I've certainly seen it in my state, too.
CPS needs a drastic overhaul--we can protect children and still have accountability, and we'd better, or all our children are at risk, wherever we live or how.

Actually from a legal stand-point , he should not be there. If he were present with his wife, they would NOT get the children cause he is viewed as the abuser by the CPS. She has a much better chance of getting the kids back by herself rather than with her husband. He shows some good legal back-up in his decision.Remember, the CPS really don't want to deal with the father's interest.

When is this nonsense going to stop!! Why doesn't someone in higher authority help these people .... Theses cases should be dropped immediately!!! Look at World their goes our Freedom and our Rights.. Next it will be you ....

In defense of CPS workers, they are not Nazis--they are just regular Americans trying to do their jobs. A job which is a thankless one by the way. I'm sure some CPS workers are better than others and I'm also sure they don't meet in secret and hatch their plans to destroy America's freedoms--that is so ridiculous! I am also sure some FLDS folks are better than others as well...all of those "lies" circulating about all the abuse that goes on have to have some truth--the stories are all too similar. At the same time, each family setting needs to be looked at individually as they are not all the same.

"At this point it looks CPS has no proof of any wrong doing by the FLDS."

CPS also doesn't have any proof that wrong doing by the FLDS wasn't occurring.

That's why they're still INVESTIGATING!!!

And also, why your kids haven't been returned to you, yet.

If you have nothing to hide, why don't you want the investigation to be completed so that you can be proven innocent of all of the rumors and innuendos and allegations about your illegal practices???

The wheel of (in)justice ground exceeding fast when they were kidnapping these kids in the name of "protecting them" from their loving, stable families. Now the wheel of justice is nearly stopped when it comes to proving any of the allegations the Texas CSP based their outrageous behavior on. Why is it that the ACLU has no problem getting a judge to move with lightning speed to block a construction project over environmental issues or other such "green" nonsense, but no judge has yet ruled on the petitions for return of these children to their own parents yet, even in the face of total lack of evidence of abuse, and the knowledge that having these kids at the mercy of the Texas foster care system is much more likely to cause them to be mistreated?

Where is the justice?

At least these FLDS women are getting a glimpse of the outside world. Some children will be free of the FLDS prison, while sadly, most will return to the compound because their mothers are too indoctrinated. But, it's a free country...

Leroy Steed Jeffs, so many wives, so many children. Obviously, not THAT concerned about losing a few.

As usual, the FLDS men are forcing the women to do ALL of the heavy lifting in getting their kids back.

Someday, these women are doing to wake up and realize that they've been lied to their whole lives; that all their "loving" husbands really care about is themselves.

Leroy is probably just protecting his hide, knowing that a child bride with his name on her is waiting in Texas to send him to prison.

Nice dodge, but, the lies, deceit and child abuse being committed by the FLDS are the REAL reason behind the raid.

Why are you hiding behind the facade of just some old man living in Las Vegas? We know you're FLDS.

The behavior of the men is curious. One was easily reached in Hilldale. But, yesterday another mother stated that her husband travels a lot and she didn't know where he was. This didn't seem credible to me.

I'm not so good at guessing when it comes to the FLDS, but perhaps these men want to be out-of-state to avoid prosecution. Money can be funneled to the women who can all retrieve the children from CPS. Already some mothers have secured housing even though they have not worked a paying job, so someone is coming up with security deposits. The women are less likely to be prosecuted for polygamy or child abuse. Does being in another state make prosecution less likely?

As someone pointed out, the fathers will give up their legal rights, but the mothers are controlled by the fathers. How this will play out is confusing. CPS may forbid the fathers from living with the mothers if their rights are terminated. But the mothers will leave the state of Texas as soon as possible, so this situation will only be short-term unless CPS can make them remain in the state as a condition for releasing the children.

What, is Rozita on the phone again?

Free FLDS Children reports that they were trying to do another "raid"/search for more children... They are in hot water and pouring more boiling water in... What would have happened if family and their children were there to help out the families there? Would their children be next in line and having to do service plans? They are acting strange! Call Texas ANY REPRESENATIVE and have CPS stopped in this madness!

They did give one girl a test after she protested and they said they would claim her "pregnant" if she did not. She did FIVE tests..all negative and she is still labled "pregnant." This is documented.

Don't paint all families with the sins of some of these fathers. If you belong to any religion or anti-religion, I hope no one points out one who does wrong and lables you as evil as that person. That is what you are doing... there are families who are fighting tooth and nail right now to get their children and sacrificing ALL (even if they did not do anything wrong..many cases are now reporting NO ABUSE but still having to do the plans==see gosanangelo). These families and these single mothers (ones whose husbands left) who are fighting need our help, not our condemndation, as they face an impossible hurdle. It is the least we can do as human beings.... Don't throw these mothers to the wolves to loose their children due to impossible demands by CPS (can you visit 900 miles in between and not miss a visit, go to work, get a house, do testing, do evaluations, check in with CPS weekly?--and this is the minimum!) --we can rally people to donate goods, money, housing, jobs with flexibility, homeschool aid (if wanted).

That is why we need to step in to help these mothers, if we can. Call your senators and representatives, Gov. Perry (if he will listen), Human Commission, the United States Representatives..anyone.. major media outlets who are ignoring this..anything and anyone. If you can't help, contact someone who can.

I'm so tired of hearing people whine about how bad the state of Texas is and how badly they have handled this. It is about time someone stepped in and started investigating these people. Polygamy is illegal, that makes them criminals. They refuse to abide by the laws of the land but have no problems taking advantage of the government freebies, (i.e., welfare, medicaid, WIC,etc.). They refuse to co-operate and identify which kids belong to who. They play on peoples emotions to try and gain public support and sympathy in hopes that there will be an outcry big enough to put an end to all of this so that they can go back and live their sick twisted lives. I say raising children in polygamy is child abuse, take those kids and put them in homes where they will be raised to respect the laws.

Just think of the massive child support involved. No wonder the FLDS fathers are deadbeating it outta there.

The pervasive pattern so far is we've got a lot of fathers here who are unable to support their numerous children.

Why are so many of you giving creedence to CPS heresay on what Leroy Jeffs supposedly said, when we KNOW they were flat-out lying about everyting from A to YFZ! Sarah is a real person? No! Pregnant 17 year old is actually 27? TEN (count 'em, TEN!) pregnant minors now proven in court to be either not minors or not pregnant. Broken bones, sex bed in the temple... lies, lies, lies!

I have had my own dealings with CPS, thanks to having a felonious criminal for an ex-wife. NEVER make deals with CPS. As far as they're concerned, you're admitting guilt as soon as you sign ANYTHING. The men are doing the smart thing and waiting for criminal charges to be filed, so they can fight the charges in the REAL criminal court, not in this kangaroo civil court and not in the court of public opinion, where some of you bigots want these things decided.

This whole thing is so wrong.

Texas is wrong to use blanket approach.

FLDS are wrong for marrying girls under 18.

Give the children back now

I can see CPS now at the gates of YFZ ranch. Gotta find that 14 yr old who's having a baby. She's got to be in there somewhere. After all, they don't exactly have her in custody, now do they?

Don't mention the Short Creek thing again. Texas doesn't want to hear about it. Where is the ACLU in all of this? Is this too hot for them? Or are they intimidated by the don't mess with Texas bunch?
How many errors can a judge make beford she's forced to be recused? I agree that if the FLDS decide to file civil cases at a later date, it will cost Texas millions.

Don't mess with Texas, they can mess all over themselves.

Leave the Amish out of this dog fight! At least our eyes aren't on the side of our heads where the ears should be. QUIT BLAMING OTHERS FOR YOUR INIQUITIES & WOMEN COVETING LIFE STYLE!

The sad truth is the FLDS system has created a number of fathers who cannot support their families emotionally or financially.

"If you have nothing to hide, why don't you want the investigation to be completed so that you can be proven innocent of all of the rumors and innuendos and allegations about your illegal practices??? "

(1) their children are illegaly taken away, I'm pretty sure they had rather be back to normal than waiting on some "investigation" to be completed. Wouldn't you?
(2) this is America. We don't "prove people innocent" here. You ARE innocent until proven otherwise. Every attempt by CPS to prove guilt is going down the tubes as lies and religious persecution.

Interesting developments.

CPS is allowed to enter a home without a search warrant as far as I know, but I don't know if they can enter if someone states that there are no children present because they would have no business where no children are present.

Given that the men have left the ranch, one would think that any undiscovered children would also have left the ranch. No one would risk having children at the ranch. Given the hiding spaces that Elissa Wall exposed at her school, one would imagine that there were hiding spaces on the ranch as well. The bishop's record should indicate if missing children are likely.

CPS is losing ground on a daily basis. The reason for seizing all of the children is shrinking. Now is not a good time for a publicity snafu.

There were reports of pregnant teens and children with infants. Other reports claimed that 100 children had no identifiable parents. The pregnant teen demographic is shrinking and the court has not seen one child without a parent. Less than a handful of children have had parents come forward at the last minute. CPS needs to strengthen its case, not ruin it.

Leroy S. Jeffs lives in Utah and is likely no longer connected to his family in how you or I perceive. Could this be one of those cases where a family is given to a different 'more worthy' FLDS man?

I couldn't live in such a society, and it does not make sense. But that is no reason to make false accusations and round up all the children and some adults (calling them kids despite evidence contray) because of potential future abuse. That same line of reasoning would have us round up all the children because they are children and could potentially be either abusers or victims. The Texas court system has destroyed any credibility they had when the raid was begun.

Dear "No Proof",
The age old problem of trying to proove a negative is at work here. The CPS is not proving abuse. You say they don't have proof that there was no abuse. Such a statement is quintesential in the premise of innocent until proven guilty. It is constitutionally protected ground, this idea of freedom from illegal search and seizure. Proove to me that you have not abused your child and I will give hi/her back. It cannot be done, and CPS knows it. They are out of bounds and need their reins yanked. The burden of proof must be on the side of the "persecution" (misspelling intentional), not on the side of the accused. Use your head.

This is so typical of childrens services across the country. Yank the children for their own protection and mound up hear say evidence and paid whore expert testimony filled with magic child services jargon. In Maryland, the phyician expert is paid $90,000 a year and has never failed to find abuse. If the parenst's didn't do it and refuse to admit doing what is alleged, they are told they won't see their children for years as appeals are filed. Just sign here that you did what we say and the family healing process can begin. If the parents still plead innocent, a shrink evaluation is ordered. Their shrink writes that the parents have significant denial issues which present a dangerous obstacle to family reunification. Parents are then told, "Don't you love your children? don't you want to see them, don't you want to get them back. Just admit you are evil and jump through OUR HOOPS!" if you don't, it could be years until you see the children again, after all the appeals are done. An innocent parent will be denied access to their child for years. It is the system that is evil.

How is polygamy prosecuted and promiscuity not? They both are illegal and lead to many kids being raised by the mother only. We should be throwing anyone in jail that has 'realtions' outside of a legal marriage just to be fair to the polygamist groups that only marry one of their wives legally.

Although they've made mistakes, the CPS in Texas is generally believed because slowly but surely through testimony of ex-FLDS members we have learned about the way of life in their community and have found some of their practices to be revolting and in need of correction.

So? How do you feel about those who father children with six different women in a half dozen cities and never consider marrying any of the mothers, run on with their lives and pay no support? Oh, wait a minute, you thought I was talking about the NBA, didn't you? Polygamy goes against my beliefs, but what you call abuse is far and away more prevelant in general society than it is in this YFZ compound. Your personal prejudice is showing and it make you look foolish.