I PRAISE Barbara Walther and the state of Texas for putting the children and their safety first. With everything going on, it is difficult to determine the "best road" to go on. The focus has always been the children and their safety. If parents are guilty of maltreatment, they should not get their children back. If the parents are associating with others who maltreat their children, they will be seen as such. The parents keep the focus on themselves and their religion. No one cares about their weird and creepy religion. They care about these children having a voice if they are being abused, physically, sexually or emotionally. There are too many stories coming out of this group of people that are too similar in their themes of abuse for us to ignore as a society with rules and norms of how children should be treated. If people cannot see that this is in the best interest of these children, you are obviously blind to justice deserved to the most vulnerable population who rarely has a voice when it comes to abuse and getting help. So "mothers" please get over yourselves and think of your"sweet, innocent children's" safety.

Excellent post

It is heartbreaking to imagine little children taken away from mothers who love them. Especially when these mothers are mostly good and loving mothers. But anyone familiar with this group of people knows that the mothers themselves are so saturated by generations and training in "obediance" and "beliefs" involving their own damnation, that it is hard to believe that this belief system and resulting abuses will not continue to be passed on through these children. Live a certain way obediantly or end up in hell......... Fear. It`s all dictated by FEAR! Of course it will continue.

They believe what they believe. What you believe, you pass on to your children!

It is wrong to take children from loving mothers. It is also wrong to allow children to have their minds and beliefs totally shaped by bizarre behaviors. No exposure to anything other than the "leader`s" wishes.

Wish Texas well in its` incredibly difficult attempt to give these children a chance at growing up using their own God-given brains and live outside the fear they are presently brought up in.
Such a sad, sad thing!

We don't agree!!! We are parents and if this happened to us it would kill us. If you say they should loose their kids because of their religion you are wrong. What about Holiness beliefs? No makeup and always wear dresses. That is weird in todays world. Should we take all those kids too. How about yours if you have any, I guess if one of your enemies makes a bogus phonecall on you they need to make you GUILTY until proven innocent. If you want this treatment for them then it is good enough for you too. This process is disgusting and so are all these prejudice comments. These mothers have the same rights as you or me so get over yourself. Ever hear of the Constitution of the United States. This is supposed to be a free country?

Barbara Walther is the worlds worst JUDGE, see has no regard for the Constitution

i'm having some change of thought. i feel that as long as there is not proof of abuse or underage marriages, that these parents should be able to take their children home. maybe things just went to far. the old adage goes that the road to hell was built on good intensions.

Good Moms do what they have to do. Are you?

From Dallas News:

While they've lived in a male-dominated community, Ms. Barlow said, she's getting tired of the notion that the mothers won't be able to make it on their own.

"We are capable and educated. We know how to use computers, use the Internet," she said one morning last week.

Before moving to Texas with her family three months ago, Ms. Barlow said, she spent a decade in Utah working as an emergency medical technician. Last month, CPS removed her five children younger than 8 years of age. She said she'll look for an EMT job between Fort Worth and Waco, where her youngsters are in foster care.

"I'm working on the basics, on what they're requiring of us," Ms. Barlow said. "I want my children back."

RE:Michelle;everything you stated is subjective,full
of emotion,and little fact. I have read your words along with many other posts, concerning this very subject,and they are the same statements that were used against the Christians in the days of Rome.They
too were accused of all kinds of atrocities,and supposed perversities, and their families were torn apart. The sad truth is that it was their accusers that were the ones guilty of that which Christians were put to death over. And it was the Empire that created the persecutions, as a tool to distract the population, from the corruption of the state.

The praise you accord Judge Walther is anything but well placed, and the assumption of maltreatment, at least on a wide spread scale, has always been in question. Only the first report is in from an independent source, but it comes from a mantal health group hired by the CPS and suggests that the maltreatment alleged by the CPS was much overstated and that their findings do no support Judge Walther and her over reaching and heavy handed foray into the lives of this religious group. The CPS has not been the "child friendly" bastion of integrity you would have us believe, and this case is not soley about child protection. The organization hired by the CPS speaks directly in opposition to your contention that "too many stories" reflect the abuse you allege. Read yesterdays news for the requests being presented to the Texas governor for intervention on behalf of the FLDS. Not that he will help, as he led the support for the unfettered tactis of the CPS in defiance of civil liberties. The bigotry of Eldorado County residents is not hidden, and neither is yours.

Michelle, living in Texas for over 25 years has shown me many things and one of them is that the Bible Belt is a very tight noose. The people of the South, and yes Texas, are very much a part of the South and are very prejudicial against all non Catholic, sometimes even Catholic, and all non Protestant religions. They are especially tight against Mormons and other "cults". In the mind of Texas these "different" people will hurt and take away or convert their families and lead them to Hell. There are many good people in Texas, but I can say that I have seen mass protests against religions that are not what an individual community has at it's core. These protests are usually against the building of new church buildings. In my community the local government would not let the Catholic Church expand it's parking lot to fit it's parish because it would take from "our" revenues. Not! In Texas all we have is land. It's all about Religion here, Michelle!

Mrs. Barlow is one of the few who got an education to make it on the outside world. Most women, especially under Warren Jeff's doctrines where not allowed to get an education that could prepare them for life on the outside world. It's one of the tragedies in this mess.

Dear Pat (5:59),
"live a certain way, or end up in hell?" Which way would that be? And, which hell are you refering to, Satan's or the CPS? It only takes a slightly willingness to look through the other end of the microscope to make you words transparent. When did you obtain the right to dictate the way someone should live? If it is by your belief, then it will avoid CPS hell? Speking of passing beliefs on to our children, have you passed your "politically correct beliefs on to yours?" Will your children grow up with your belief that if they don't tow the CPS line of belief that they will go to CPS hell? Just exactly which system of fear is THE correct one here?

Sandy & family,
It's not about clothing. It's about adults forcing children into sexual relationships. It's about educating children through 12th grade with mainstream education. That way they will know they have choices, options. As it is now the children are broken and trained like a family dog. The only ones with higher education or internet access are most likely favorites. Women who have proven themselves sexually, or "told" on others for disobedience. Ever wonder why the same 3 women are the only ones allowed to give interviews??? Hello! Don't foget their paychecks go straight to the priesthood head (husband). Get a grip. They (adults) want to live plural marriage fine but let your people come and go and get educated. Set them free if they love you they will return.

On April 28th, The Reverend Jeremiah Wright addressed the National Press Club, where, upon being introduced, he got a standing ovation.

Using the current standards of the State of Texas regarding parents controlling their children, I would think it necessary and proper to remove any and all children from the homes of these reporters.

George Washington firmly believed in an "organic" freedom in this nation where different interests playing off each other help to preserve freedom.

Too bad he didn't recognize that the opposite can also occur, that is you can have a bunch of Mormon-hating "Christians" forming an unholy alliance with left-wing religion-hating people of the kind that applauded Rev. Wright.

I'm Atheist and it is my heart-sick opinion and belief that the Mormons of Texas are having their rights trampled upon, and what is worse is that they're not getting the same fair hearing in the press as would have happened if they'd been Marxist-oriented.

Where do you get your information? "Texas, are very prejudicial against all non Catholic..." Texas isn't a predominant Catholic state as you seem to imply but a conservative protestant state, part of the "southren" bible belt if you will. And while I would agree that you are correct in stating they appear to be heavily prejudiced against any religion outside of evangelicalism. However, isn't the same true in Utah of "non-mormons"? I've heard if you are a protestant or esp Catholic, watch out!

I praise Texas for acting, when Utah would not
I praise the FLDS mothers for fighting for their children, nothing more instinctive
I praise all levels of Texas society who are trying to sort out this mess, some misguided
I have serious doubts about why polygamy was ever begun, either LDS or FLDS
I have serious doubts as to why polygamy is ever begun in any faith practice of modern times
Polygamy was begun in the "mormon" faith traditions, now we continue to see the heartache
May God look upon all of us kindly.
We ALL have a lot of explaining to do!!!

It is heartbreaking to think of children seperated from their mothers. These mothers are also victims of abuse and are under the complete control of the men of the FLDS. The men are the ones believed to have committed these terrible crimes, yet they are still at the ranch, and the mothers, after losing their children are still fearfully being controlled by the men. I would think that many of these women would want to be freed from this hell that they are in, if they were not afraid that they would be punished by the FLDS men. These women need to be protected and educated so that they might have a chance to happily raise their children and lead normal lives free of fear and control. I wish that they had been able to take the men off of the ranch and worked with the women and children in their familiar surroundings. It is so sad to see how a few power hungry, controlling and evil men can ruin so many innocent lives.

When you're on the opposite end of the law, it always seems unfair.

I hope the FLDS will use today as the beginning of them trying to work with CPS rather than be adversaries.

FLDS needs to realize that they are up against the State, and the State won't loose, not when it comes to child protection.

A lot of bombshells will be dropped by both sides before this whole mess is over.

I do not like FLDS. My opinion of them is that they are very closemouthed, standoffish, and they often rule their homes with a very narrow point of view. That said, what has happened is not acceptable. For a arm of the gov't to walk into a neighborhood and empty the entire compound of children I would expect exceptional proof of serious child abuse. What I have heard so far is "underage marriage," and "one household theory."

This has opened TX to huge lawsiuts. It was foolish and ill planned. I hope each families interests will be carefully considered. I do not buy guilt by association. To take children you need to have more than a questionable belief structure.

They could have simply informed the leadership that no underage marriages were to occur, and that all marriages must be licensed by the state. Instead TX decided to make a fool of itself in front of the world and open themselves up to scrutiny. How needless, how foolish.

I hope that the mom don't talk to their case worker about their concerns for their children as the CPS worker will twist a lot of what the mother says to benefit the state keeping the children.

It seems the judges have already made up their minds that none of the kids are going to be returned to their families today. The reason the judges and CPS get their paychecks from the same play - state government.

Reading about the 3 year old not understanding why his mommy came to see him and left without him is heartbreaking. When one of my sons was in foster care he went through the same thing but lashed out. He would get very upset about leaving without me and have a temper tantrum. Later my visits went from once a week to once a month because it was too hard on my son to have to leave. Eventually they stopped all visits but did not TPR. I was not allowed any contact with him and any cards that I sent were returned to me. I now get letters from him and they are signed "Love your son". CPS hurts children emotionally.

Send the children home

When the FLDS moved into Texas under the guise of creating a hunting lodge, Texas quickly discovered it had been bamboozled. Books about the FLDS were purchased so the state knew what it was dealing with. These non-fiction books, which were written by ex-FLDS members or cult experts must have been extremely upsetting to local Texans. Texas authorities probably contacted Utah authorities and heard an earful about ongoing criminal investigations.

Given the likelihood of criminal behavior on the compound, Texas was prepared to enter if called to do so. Texas received a call which reflected what it knew about the FLDS. It entered the compound and found what appeared to be child sexual abuse. When a statutory rapist lives in a typical community, the community is outraged, upset, careful and wary. But, in this community there appeared to be several statutory rapists and yet there was no concern at all because statutory rape was acceptable behavior. Because the parents did not have the mindset to protect their children, the children were removed. Criminal and CPS investigates were begun. Texas will obviously require new living arrangements and specialized therapy so that parents will find it undesirable to live among rapists.

"It's not about clothing. It's about adults forcing children into sexual relationships."
Listen to me carefully, please! No person among our people has any right to force any person, child or adult, into a relationship they don't want, especially in regards to sexual relations. It's as abhorrent to us as it is to you. Have you actually met some of us?

"It's about educating children through 12th grade with mainstream education. That way they will know they have choices, options. As it is now the children are broken and trained like a family dog. The only ones with higher education or internet access are most likely favorites."
And mainstream education doesn't have its own problems? Good grief! Hasn't it already been shown that our children are AHEAD of mainstream America in their education? A lot of our people get their GED when they're done with school. Guess what? The GED instructor said that 40% of high school graduates can't pass the test. I took it(no studying before hand), and it was a piece of cake.

We come and go all we want, and most of us want to be left alone to live our lives in peace.

What troubles me is the fact that the state operates on proven false emergency calls, proven false identifications of who is underage, and most important, false allegations on what exactly the particular religious beliefs are. The fact that the FLDS enemies are very active does not mean that there is something wrong with FLDS. The holocaust has plenty of enemies, deniers, but they don’t make their arguments on prime time TV.

re man fraidddd: sometimes even the "law" is on the opposite side of the law. thats why we have a system of checks and balances....i'm not saying that cps is all wrong...but defiately not 100% right either

Not only send the children home but round up all the CPS (Committee to Prevent Stability) Kidnappers and send them to jail to see what its like!

I am an FLDS woman and to all those who have spoken negatively about my religion I would like you to put yourself in our shoes for a moment and we're very clean so you need not worry of getting athletes foot.

From your comments I am assuming you do not have children so think of it this way, imagine someone taking away your puppy or your kitty and you don't know if they are being taken care of, or treated
right, or fed properly, and they tell you they're doing fine but when you see them next they're bruised and have needle pricks up and down it's legs and you can see they've drastically lost weight. BUT they're better off in the "care" of the State than in your care because you would love them and take care of them and teach them good habits so they must be removed from you.

Pretty lame huh?
Wake up! You are so blind! Start doing something in defense of your own constitutional rights by putting a stop to the heineous and deplorable acts commited by the State of Texas. Heaven help you.

LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL!

To Thomas, Why would anyone in their right mind ever want to send all the FLDS kids back home to a cult, where their father's are there waiting like vultures to make the children into child brides. I say, get the fathers OUT! and then only, send the mothers and children back home. GET THE MEN OUT FIRST!!

Amazing; one post hates all evil men, another has tickets for Hell that will no doubt be handed out,
and another has decided that the FLDS need to have
access to the internet,and all will be well.And not to be out done one post demands obeisance to the State, or no children for you. It must be great to be Gods, possessors of such vast wisdom, and compassion.Freedom Mann, as a self admitted Atheist,
displayed more true Christian compassion than many supposed christians. Freedom Mann, I can understand why many people question religion and faith, especially after reading some of the comments posted
here.

I like what Sandy and Family had to say. Has anyone thought that if this can happen to these people just because they don't talk to you or me, that it could also happen to YOU? Think about it. Just how protected are you if the government came in and took YOUR children away? Could you stand up against such a force as the CPS who do not have to follow the Constitution of the United States? or a biased judge that thinks she can overrule every law that has been put in place for YOUR safety and mine? THINK ABOUT IT? ARE YOU SAFE FROM THIS KIND OF ABUSE? Then what if the media listened to YOUR worst enemies to get all the "FACTS" and had you judged with the electric chair all ready even before YOUR trial? Give these people a break... Go into the history books for yourself and see about the rights of the pioneers of this people and how they were trampled on also...History does repeat it's self and there will always be people that judge off of just HEARSAY!!!!!

Return the children to their mothers and fathers and stop this religious persecution. God lives and He can and will deliver His people. Truth will prevail!

OH MAN! Karen, I know darn well you are a MAN posing as a woman! Give me a break! Hey Bud! I see you changed your name again today. What else could we expect from the FLDS???

Gal50 said:

"When the FLDS moved into Texas under the guise of creating a hunting lodge,....."
since when do you, me or ANYONE have to give a REASON for moving into a State?
Are you applying for a work, student or resident visa?
I must say that Texas sometimes is like a foreign entity, with foreign ideas, but where do you get off saying anyone MUST give a valid, acceptable REASON for relocating from one Sate to another State?
Child brides are an evil practice, but this County Sheriff brags about having an 'informer' in YFZ ranch for FOUR years. If an anonymous phone call can be given as a valid reason for a warrant, then why was the 'informer' not used long ago?
Why was the names of the 'older fathers' not given, used as probable cause and acted upon with a proper warrant?
Why was not proper procedure followed?
This is the reason for my problems and concerns with Texas and the 'foreign' policies evident here.
Sounds like an Islamic, USSR or North Korean policy was loaned out here.
FOREIGN, indeed!

FLDS Guy: I certainly understand your frustration at the lack of understanding that the rest of the "world" has for "your people." However, it is the historically secretive and isolationist attitude of the FLDS that has brought this upon you. Hiding gives the appearance of guilt. Where are all the FLDS elders and the fathers of all these children? If polygamy is so holy then why aren't they standing up for their families or appearing in court? The only ones I've heard from are the younger ones who have only one wife--we all know that's not all of them. Where are the husbands of these teenage girls who have children or are pregnant? Why aren't they fighting for their families? All of these posts keep talking about what if this happened to you--the fact is that if it did, my husband would be on every news channel and in every paper and every courtroom--he wouldn't disappear and go into hiding.

The FLDS have been promptly paying all of their taxes on the property, and greatly improving it with their own industrious labor and effort. What difference does it make whether it is called a "hunting lodge," or not?

The "non fiction" books purchased by Texas are hardly an unbiased account of the religion and represent the sensational views of dissatisfied former members. Texas declined the offer of a Phd scholar who specializes in the history of the church and its culture, to share his knowledge with CPS. He is not a church member.

Everyone know now that the "complaining caller" was a 32 year old woman living in Colorado with a history of fake phone calls.

Its true that the parents of the community have a mindset to protect their children, that is - to protect them from abuses from outsiders like the CPS.

Texas did everything backwards. They should have brought specific criminal charges forward first, before destroying the lives of hundreds of children by placing them in a foster system with proven demonstrated harm to children.

I hope that the lawyers representing the children rip the CPS and their cronies apart and get the kids home. Who's next?

CPS is designated to provide the - Check

and the courts provide the - Balance.

The FLDS women lost round 1 & 2. By not being straight with CPS they gave them grounds to argue willful deception.

Now, what's in the best interest of the children will be decided by CPS, the Court, and the Children's Attorneys.

To be a factor, the FLDS women have no choice but to put themselves at the mercy of the State/Court.

Start by getting rid of Warren Jeffs photo in the childrens room. To the law he's a convicted felon (child abuse), and qualifies as someone who has or will abuse children.

Play nice and sweet with the State.

It seems Judge Roy Bean mentality still lives on in Texas. He was a criminal and it looks like the state of Texas is still practicing Judge Roy Bean's law.

"who's next?" hopefully Colorado City and Hilldale

Anon, please post facts, not delusions. You might want to begin by finding out what Jeffs was charged and convicted. Note that the person supposedly responsible for the primary alleged crime has not even had a trial.
You claim "willful deception" yet missed that women were submitting birth certificates and drivers licenses issued by Utah or Texas which were ignored. Instead CPS claimed these adult women as minors, despite proof of identity and age.
Note that the state is looking at financial records which I consider bizarre based on the claim of protecting "underage girls.

Ex-mo agnostic mother of three

Get the kids home to what?
Our society will not stand by while a Cult pretending to be a religious group forces their young to be raised as underage laborers and baby mills. Twelve year old boys sent off to work construction, and young girls forced to marry old men. A marriage that is not legal or sexually consented to. Bleeding the Beast...Most of the mothers regarded as single parents receive welfare checks that go directly to the men. Who then parcel out that money to favorites, leaving others deprived, punished, controlled. Read the book, Escape, by a former FLDS woman who escaped that loving group.

Patricia wrote: <<it is the historically secretive and isolationist attitude of the FLDS that has brought this upon you. Hiding gives the appearance of guilt. >>

Since when is minding your own business and keeping to yourself suspicious?

The only thing that I can see that the FLDS did wrong was not having enough attorneys in their midst to ward off an attack such as was wrought upon them by the state of Texas.

I am appalled at the state of Texas and the underhanded way they have been dealing with the citizens of the YFZ Ranch. The land was purchased at the price of $700,000.00. The state promptly, upon learning who had purchased it, appraised the land at $21 million. No tax exempt. When that didn't chase them away, they changed the age of marriage from 14 to 16, with the consent to 18. They also changed the common law marriage statute to read that if you were legally married you could not live with another person. If Texas enforced these laws against any other than the FLDS to would have most of Texas in custody. You can't get more prejudice than this against a group of people.

I consider all religions cults. I consider you brainwashed and abusive to your children since you also teach damnation if your children do not abide by the beliefs you teach about your "man in the sky." You make claims about "underage marriage" but TX is not finding that problem, heck even CPS is validating "minors" as actual adults. It is the very reason why TX is looking into financial records...trying to find something anything to stick. There is no welfare fraud in TX, according to TX welfare officials, so bleeding the beast is tossed out. There are no boys that have been tossed and even TX authorities threw that one out. If you read "ESCAPE" more closely and then do some research you will find out these additional tidbits. Betty, Caroline's daughter RETURNED to the FLDS at 18 years two days. Shouldn't she have remembered the abuse? She remains unmarried and living with another "mother." Caroline claims that all think as one yet read about the "red" revelation. One woman dung up red roses and planted pink. Other women continued to wear red dresses. Clearly they do not think as one and obey blindly.

Ex-mo agnostic mother of 3.

I know, I know, it's a religious cult, so what Texas did is OK... but I was reading my Constitution today and came accross something we should all consider...
--------
Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure. Ratified 12/15/1791.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
--------

"No warrants shall issue but upon probable cause supported by Oath and affirmation". Hmmm, was the oath the call everyone involved suspected was bogus before they even asked for the warrant?

"Warrants must particularly describe the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized"... Hmmm, Does that mean once CPS gets the warrant they are then free to search ANYWHERE and take ANYTHING or ANYONE once they get inside and learn the person the warrant was issued for (the mythical Sarah) isn't there and they learn the person accused (mythical Sarah's mythical old-husband) in the warrant was not even in Texas?

TEXAS-JUSTICE=Constitutional-Justice?

Can CPS prove that these "14-17 year old girls" that had kids, weent just messing around with some of the boys that were there on the ranch. I know that stuff is probably "forbidden", but it could have happened. Some of the fathers of these girls babies, could have been the same age of the girls.

So the 6-year-old handicaped boy has never been abused or neglected, CPS admits, but his mommy has to stop abusing and neglecting him to get him back? HOW?

What should she not do to make sure she never does something that she has never done? How can she prove to CPS that she hasn't done something she has never done? No wonder they are confused.

And Judge Gosset says “Your right to your religious belief ends when it violates the law” to Nora Jeffs, but Ms. Jeffs has not been charged with any crime. Nobody has!!

What is going on here???

If you suspected your neighbor was abusing your kids, would you continue to let them go over there until you had proof? Any responsible, loving parent would take their kids out of harm's way immediately and ask questions later to prevent any further abuse. That is what is happening here, however the mothers' were deliberatly dishonest and made themselves look guilty. There is a reason they are so secretive. Sneaky people do things that way because they are embarressed to let others see what they are doing. I freely practice my religion, daily, without persecution for others for my beliefs and thank the Lord everyday for that right. I AM a mother of 3 children, and I am heart broken for the children taken from their families. The very sad thing about abuse is that children who are abused will still want their parents, regardless of how they are treated. And I would imagine many of them are also brainwashed and/or really don't know any better. And I am NOT being investigated for child abuse, FLDS is, but if I was, and I was innocent, I would be doing everything I could to prove I wasn't and not manipulative.

I never said "they should loose their children because of their religion". Please re-read my post. I have the opinion of thier religion as being weird and creepy, but that is my opinion. I practice marriage as one man, one woman, as it states in the Bible. I practice worship and prayer through Jesus, my Savior as it states in the Bible. If I have ever given anyone the indication that my children are being abused, I would expect CPS to be at more door, ready to take my kids until they could determine they were safe. I am an RN and as a mandatory reporter, healthcare workers have the ethical/moral obligation to report ANY suspected abuse. It doesn't have to be proved, just suspected. for the CHILDREN's safety, not the parent's feelings.

You don't know much history if you think Mormons started the pracitce of polygamy. Have you heard of any cultures outside the US? Have you never heard of another culture that practiced polygamy? Were you educated in Texas schools?

testified that six year old boy is not sexually or physically abused. That child has a prostetic leg, six years old, and is said to be very attached to his mother. If he is not being abused and not in immediate danger, why won't CPS return him? By the way, regarding under-age marriage-TX had allowed for 14 years old to marry (with parental permission) until three years ago. Why was it o'key until FLDS moved in? And why did TX governor Rick Perry want young girls entering sixth grade vaccinated for HPV (mandatory vaccinations)? Why would they need this vaccine in his mind, at the age of 12?