Vincent. I truly dought that you are a memeber of the LDS church but if indeed you truly are I would say you have no real understanding of the gospel or you would not make such a remark. Just to let you know I also have a memeber of my family who is gay. We love her. But we don't ask God how to run His church. He has made it quit clear in the scripturs on this subject. But that dosn't mean we treat these members of our family as less then. The great aposticy started that way. Man thinking they are more inteligent then God. That God would do things their way if he only had all the information. You can't be Christian pacticing a gay life style because it violates the laws of God. On the flip side you can't be athiest and follow a gay life style because it violates the laws of nature.
But realy this isn't the place to be telling the church you say you believe in how it should be run.

I am so sorry that your testimony of a Prophet is so lacking. God gave us prophets on the earth to listen to, not when we think maybe they might be right, but to gain awitness that they speak for God and say what HE wants said all the time! I do NOT have the right to pick and choose which counsel I think is true. I too have family members who are gay and of course I still love them, however, their lifestyle is still wrong and nothing is going to change that. No court of man has the authority to over ride God's laws...

No, the LDS Church does not need to change a thing, becasue then, they cease being God's church and would become a part of this world... no good....

As a member of HIS church, you and so many others like you need to take solid stock of your testimony and see where your relationship with the Saviour is....

your absolute lack of doctrinal and moral understanding is astounding. You do not comprehend the plan of salvation or the purpose of Earth life according to LDS doctrine. While it is true the Father loves us he does not condone all of our actions. He gave us agency in the beginning but with that there is also accountability for our choices. Homosexuality is counterproductive to Father's plan of happiness and destroys the concept of family, the marriage of one man to one woman whose purpose for union is the creation of a family.

You wil probably also be mad when we allow gays to marry, that God still wont be fair to gay couples and allow them to have children, like he does heterosexual marriages. But please take that one up with God, don't rant and rave about it in the Newspaper.

ARe you valiant in your testimony of Jesus Christ. Bruce R MCConkie who is taboo to the less than converted said in a general conference only valiant are exalted and to be valiant is vote how Jesus would vote. ARe you valiant if you oppose what the lords leaders said. Section 1 of doctrine and covenants rails on people that walk after there own way and say my voice or voice of servants it is the same. You can't create truth by refusing to beleive it and even if policies are against your ideas best to follow them. I read that quote somewere.

In a world with real concerns, and serious threats, it's a real shame that the conservative movement has been focusing on red herring issues,like gay marriage, to scare, and manipulate people.

For decades LDS members with same-sex attraction were encouraged to marry the opposite sex and told that this would "fix the problem". After seeing the devastation that that policy wrought on the others in those marriages, the Church now says such members should remain celibate and alone. The impact and reality of this expectation gets very little attention from those of whom it is not asked. How welcome in the average ward is a gay member even if celibate? How much support is there really for him? More likely, members look askance at him, whisper about him, and subject him to irrational fears. If we really expect this celibacy of gay members, what are we really doing as a church to fellowship them, accept them, and help them live a command that is not asked of us? Sadly, next to nothing, it seems.

I'm quite active and realize that my letter to the editor will probably result in some type of punishment for me. I was in a leadership position until only three months ago. My letter needed to be said. I've had suicidal family members who truly love the Church but have been unable to change who they are.

I completely agree with John C. You cannot believe the President of the Church is a Prophet of God, and then question his teachings. To do this is to question God himself.

I can't wait for the marriages to start up in California. My longtime partner and I are headed west for a ceremony, even though Utah doesn't recognize our love and commitment. Maybe some day...

You don't read the scriptures much, do you, Richard?

Vincent:
If you really are an active member of the Church, let me redirect you to the Proclamation on the Family, a document accepted as modern day scripture by the members of the Church. It is not possible to read this document and make the claim that gay marriage is "not in conflict with God's revelations." Your editorial demonstrates your ignorance or voluntary disregard to a fundamental tenet of the Church -- that we are led by a living Prophet (see Article of Faith 9). How unfortunate that there are those among us who feel the need to counsel the Prophet when he has made the Lord's will so absolutely clear.

The whole Gay/Straight thing will be cleared up by The Church as soon as they finish getting things straightened out as to who the "Lamanites" really are. Not to worry, it won't be any time soon.

Too Bad | 3:46 AM

Friend, if it ever comes to the point that no court of man has the authority to override the authority of your imaginary, fictitious God, we are going to have the mother of all civil wars on our hands.

Kevin

That's just silly. Have you committed any sin (perhaps pride) and yet consider yourself a Christian? Could not a homosexual do this too? Perhaps they can still follow the core teachings of Christ and it doesn't appear that anti-gay sentiment was a core teaching.
As for laws of nature, what are you talking about? I'd have to assume that you mean evolution and primarily natural selection. There is nothing about homosexuality that suggests that it cannot be maintained in the presence of selection so long as the homosexuals have heterosexual relatives that could have benefited from their assistance. We see homosexual behavior in many animal species so we know that it is natural. Furthermore, who ever said that atheists are limited to specific natural rules. Atheism is not a philosophy regarding life but simply a belief about the existence of a deity. Atheists adopt some other philosophy to guide them ethically. To some, given overpopulation and the inherent immorality of the struggle for limited resources, not reproducing would be a moral choice, a sacrifice if you will to make up for the selfishness of the over-reproducers. Homosexual marriage could fit quite nicely into such a belief system.

Vincent, I applaud your position and admire you for going with your conscience. If God speaks to us, that must be how He does it. To listen to fellow church members here, we're supposed to ignore that in favor of a human voice. For myself, I know which voice I trust more, and like you, I'm not buying the sham that a policy of discrimination helps anyone - no matter who tells me that.

ramifications of having the institution of marriage changed to include gay marriage?
I am very uneasy about the possibility of Homosexual couples adopting inocent children at will... this would be a very confusing environment for these kids.
also, why do these couples so desperatly need my approval of there lifestyle?
I say live and let live, but don't push your bad choices on me.

How about minding your OWN business, prophet.
As God would want.

All of Gods laws were written by humans. All the history and books written about God are ideas of people, not God. Get it? How about using some common sense about human rights in America, not Islam. Unproven dogma does not trump actual intelligent thoughts and ideas about making life on earth better for all of "Gods people".
Then we can all feel good about actually doing the real Christian work, which is love not hate.

If you applaud this move by California as being good for our society then you are not intelligent at all. As a school teacher who teaches ten and eleven year old kids, I see how this is going to have a powerful negative impact on children.

This really is the beginning of the END to our wonderful society.

Marriage is about children. Plain and simple! Ever child deserves to have a mom and a dad. Death happens, Divorce happens but every child deserves a mom and a dad.

Adult rights? SELFISH!!!!

I actually think that those who think like Vincent should maybe start their own church. I think that is a great idea. Because if you are not willing to follow the prophet then what is the use of the church?

Reality... Oh come on give me a break, I am so tired of feeling guilty because of gays.

Mormons are good people, busy maybe but good.

But does that mean they should stop following God's laws just because maybe some adults may feel uncomfortable? Whatever!!

I hope all GAy people everywhere are very happy about this move that California has made because I believe it is going to have a powerful back lash! You should not force your view on a society who has had the same tradition for thousands of years...

Wanda and others: I ask this with all sincerity to those who really seem to fear some awful consequences of this decision. What "powerful negative impact" do you really foresee? I accept that you disagree with gay marriage. But saying over and over that this is going to harm children or the "institution of marriage" without saying exactly how, or what those negative consequences will be, does not strike me as enough.

So many of these posts today will decry this and say that the sky is falling. I challenge those who really feel this is awful to explain exactly how this is so--how their marriage or their kids or anyone for that matter is actually harmed.

I am a single woman in the church. I have never had the opportunity to marry. However I go to church faithfully every Sunday. I am not in the "in crowd" in our ward. I am left out of a lot of things. But that isn't people in my wards fault. They have no thought that I feel left out. Maybe I should scream and cry and write letters to say how unfair it is! No I think not. I have a strong testimony of the gospel and I am willing to endure what I have to,so I can stay true to my God! In other words gay people are not the only ones who expereince lonliness! Why not just pick up your cross and keep your mouth shut!

I want to marry my horse... Please come on...

With all due respect, Tammy, if you are heterosexual member of the church, you DO have the opportunity to marry. Unlike gay members, the Church hasn't told you to remain single. That you haven't yet found someone to marry is another matter. Unlike gay members, when that person comes along, you can get married.

I am, having read the comments so far, out of touch, selfish and unintelligent. Fair enough, but the spelling and grammar in some of them suggests I'm not alone in lacking intelligence.
For all the bluster about the demise of society and moral fabric and whatnot there must still be recognition at some level for most people that gay marriage isn't going to have any significant effect on us as individuals or a society, and that if it does we weren't on solid ground anyway. Move past this. If you think God is going to get cranky about it, let God deal with it. And, I'm tired of doing everything for the children. If it's all about them, let them pay the phone bill. We give them too much, and create spoiled brats incapable of sacrifice.

Well I really do think that Same Sex marriage will be prevalent in our world now. Now nobody's marriage will be safe.

But we put up with it because we didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings and now we are going to REAP it!

I'm not asking anyone to feel guilty and I said nothing to suggest they stop following God's laws, as they believe them to be. I am just saying that if the expectation is that gays live celibate lives, members of the church could be much more understanding and supportive. If gays are to live our entire lives alone, believe me, we at least need this support. Just asking that you consider what it must be like for gay members who are trying to do as the Church expects.

Just pick up your cross and follow him. And if you don't want to then don't!

As a single woman the church does ask me to remain celibate. I guess I could scream and cry about how that wasn't fair. I could cry that I was so lonely, and how they should change the rules,but I don't!

And if you feel so strongly about gay marriage then you probably don't care what God thinks about you anyway. Especially if you are willing to fight against his church and prophet. It really isn't a gay or straight issue. It is" will I follow God no matter what my problems are?" And if you want God's rules to change then you really don't want to be a member of his church do you?

Harland,

Whether you like it or not, it is about the children!

They will be doing a lot of the work of the society when you are old whether you have some of them yourself or not. So I think that you should come out of you "selfish perch" for a bit and think beyond the moment!

Dear Richard Vincent,
I a so sorry that there are so many judgmental people in this world. I too am LDS and although I don't have anyone close to me who is gay, I can imagine it is very difficult for you. I don't think you meant that you expect the church to allow gay marriages, but perhaps you would like them to stop speaking out so forcefully to stop gay marriage from being afforded to all U.S. citizens. I may be wrong in my understanding. I do believe the LDS church has every right to not allow gay marriages in the temple, but I do wish they would not interfere in public policy that affects many who are not of our faith. I also believe more members of the LDS faith need to show more kindness and acceptance of those who are different in general, but especially to gays. I sincerely wish your loved ones well, and I know our Savior does not judge them like others may. Best of everything to you.

To In Reality

And my point is why are your troubles any bigger or more important than anyone else's troubles? Their are a lot of people in the church married or not married, same sex attraction or not, that forgo their sexual desires. Maybe people who are married are lonley. HOWEVER they do not act on every selfish urge that they feel!

Everybody needs Support! Aren't we taught that no matter what our problems are we should forget ourselves and serve others?

So to pretend that their should be some great dispensation handed to members of the church that are Gay is unreasonable and unfair!

But in my opinion SELFISHNESS is the main problem!

And others! How many scriptures do we read that are now outdated and that we don't follow anymore? Slavery, 2nd class citizenship of women blood sacrifice are among them. I look forward to the day that people will realize that the people of the scriptures did not understand gay people anymore than they understood the above things.

Why do you assume that I'm fighting against the Church or wanting the rules changed? I never said either thing. I'm just asking that Church members be a little more sensitive and understanding to gay members who are trying to live by the Church's rules, just as they should be more sensitive to you.

to love the person you are attracted to? Please...you would cry out bigotry if you were not allowed to love someone because they are lefthanded or some other type of inherited trait! Gay people consider this the same type of thing as what they are.

Tammy, you make a good point: People who don't like the rules of the church are free to leave and shouldn't try to change the rules. While you didn't say anything about the marriage decision itself, I wish to point out to others that a church's rules shouldn't have anything to do with whether the government should be able to make rules that treat gays differently.

The question of government-granted benefits that go with marriage should not be determined based on a church's rules. Unlike a church, the government is supposed to represent us all. It does have to treat all equally.

Wanda, again you post that "it's about the children" without taking up my challenge of explaining exactly how this will harm them. With all due respect, sayin' so don't make it so.

I'm not trying to pick a fight and I recognize that everyone has troubles. Maybe my troubles aren't bigger. I'm not necessarily suggesting they are. But I will say that unlike other people's troubles, if I acknowledge to my ward that the reason I am not married is because I am gay, there are members who will consider me a danger to their children, and doubt my commitment to celibacy as you seem to have done. Whereas it seems to me that most other troubles that people face bring the good members of the church rallying to their side in support.

I think htat gays should be able to be married. I no htat their are alot of peoples who don't wint that but gays are loving people and they should be able to get married or not.

It is not selfish to want. It is selfish to expect a church to give a group of people (gay) special treatment.

And my point is everyone experiences insecurities. Everyone should feel welcome at church. But people are just human. Many people have things that make them feel sad and less outgoing and you judge them as being mean.

I know a guy with same sex attraction who has immersed himself into his ward. He helps out on every level. Everyone loves him. He has made himself part of the ward. He is not looking for trouble. He is not looking for special treatment!

To Reality

And as a single member of the church I experience those same prejudices.

So with all due respect I think you are looking for special treatment! I haven't doubted your commitment to celibacy!!1

I think there are always defining moments in our lives and this is one of them for you. You have to decide are you going to be bitter and blame others for your feelings or are you going to recognize this life for what it is "a test".

To Richard Vincent and your alias Jen M

I agree that members should show love and understanding to members who are different but why to did you say especially gays. Could you explain that?

To Tammy: This issue of marriage is not about expecting the CHURCH to give gays special treatment. It is entirely about expecting our GOVERNMENT to give everyone equal treatment. I realize this is a church-owned newspaper. But why does everyone keep making this issue about the church? It really seems like some folks need a remedial course in basic civics.

Really, Tammy? As a single woman in the Church you experience those same prejudices? Members of your ward try to keep their children away from you?

With all due respect Gayle, the opinion letter is directed to the LDS church and the readers and responding to the opinion letter

Gayle

I have no problem understanding civics, however I am responding to the opinion letter and comments. That is the nature of a blog.

Thanks and have a nice day!

To Richard

Well I wouldn;t say that is a prejudice if people are protective of their children. But yes when I was new in the ward people weren't that friendly. But as I served and I got to know them better then there unfriendliness disappeared!

Richard you are naive if you think that parents aren't going to be protective of their kids. Is that what this is about? Look at the world we live in today. If I had kids, I would be protective of them against any person (in or out of my church) that I didn't know very well. And Richard you would too!