Jesus Christ was baptized.
But he was baptized while he was alive - not dead.

If you don't comprehend the issue, please ask questions before posting comments that demonstrate total ignorance.

To Anonymous at 12:07

And if we wish to follow Christ into heaven, we must do what he did - be baptized. We must be baptized like he was baptized, by someone holding the authority, completely immersed in water, and being in a position to accept the covenant.

The problem becomes when those who were not able to hear the word of the Lord in this life. Are they doomed to hell in eternity just because they were born in North Korea?

The concept of doing something for someone else is well recognized in law (proxy). I gave my wife "power of attorney" so she could travel to another state and sell some real estate. The ability of Christ to take the punishment for our sins lies at the very center of Christian belief. I don't understand why all this anger at a clearly New Testament approved doctrine.

Mormons believe that no one is forced to "become Mormons" on the other side. The effort is really to tie together all humanity in a chord of family and allow all who did not have the opportunity to accept Christ and enter into a covenant with Him.

Anonymous,

Your are correct, he was baptized when he was alive. This was possible because there was one who had authority to baptize. Would it be fair to condemn a person who was not able to be baptized be cause no one with authority was around to do it? No it wouldn't. Since God is perfect in his justice and mercy he set up a way for those who did not have the opportunity to still receive it. Proxy baptism.

"Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?" (1 Corinthians 15:29)

Other Bible verses related to work for the dead:
Malachi 4:5–6; John 5:25; 1 Peter 4:6;

So how many other mormons would feel that way - come on baptize people while they are alive and willing but leave the dead alone and with their beliefe they took to the grave. Not everyone believe mormonism is the true religion of Christ. Yes Christ was baptized but he wasn't forcing on people he was informing and giving them options.

That is because the authority to perform ordinances was here on earth when he was here. He was the authority. GAve it to John the Baptist. In order to get to the celestial kingdom you have to be baptized by one having authority. Many people died without having that oppurtunity do to circumstanses beyond there control. Would God be just if he condemended them. That is why we have baptism for the dead it is essential to there salvation.

I'm glad to hear that the letter writer was honored by what his father's Catholic friend's father did; however, not everyone feels the same way when complete strangers use Catholic baptism records to use their name in a Mormon ceremony.

We should remember that it's important to respect the wishes of the dead and their relatives. If someone while living says they don't want their name used in some other religious ceremony or when they're relatives make such requests on behalf of their dead, the wish should be respected. If you personally don't understand it, too bad. A higher morality does not always rely on how I would personally feel if someone used my name in a religious ceremony.

I don't care what the LDS are told.
This is about inflating their membership numbers.

Non-Mormons seem to operate on the idea the after death the spirit has no ability to make choices. Mormons on the other hand believe that the after life is an extension of this one. There are people to be with, work to do and choices to make. The practice of Baptism for the dead is not binding on anyone, but because it is an Earthly ordinance required for entrance into the Kingdom of God, at least the individual has the ability to make the choice. If he/she chooses to accept the Gospel on the other side, then this ordinance has been done and does not stand in the way of the individuals progress. There is no harm or disrespect intended, it is merely our way of allowing freedom of choice after the body has been laid to rest. If he/she does not wish to accept our efforts then no one is hurt and the individuals agency is still respected.

What about all the people who died before Jesus walked the earth? Don't they deserve a chance to be baptized as well?

Do you have any method of baptizing a spirit?

There is a HUGE difference between praying for someone and baptizing them. wonder what the reaction would be if the fiend instead had said the deceased had been baptized into the Catholic faith? I am astounded that anyone that could take baptism so casually.

There is a huge question of respect here. I do not accept LDS theology but I have GREAT respect for those who do. The LDS Church should respect other religions.

The practice is utterly abhorrent to all Catholics. That should be sufficient reason to stop the nonsense. And, as a Catholic, I believe the Mormon practice is an insult to all Catholics and to God.

Anonymous was only stating facts....

Sorry Chris Wright.
We gentiles don't happen to believe that not being baptized mormon is "condemning a person."

"The concept of doing something for someone else is well recognized in law (proxy)."

And it's well recognized in the Bible as well. Not unlike baptizing for someone else not able to do it for themselves, Christ did something for all who could not do it for themselves.

So does this mean there are literally billions of Asians just hanging out in the lower levels because we will never, ever get their names?

Numbers game - you do know that baptisms for the dead are not counted in the church's membership numbers, right? You also know that church members who were baptized during their lives and are now dead are also not counted, don't you? Wait, you didn't know that?

Next time educate yourself before you go popping off regarding a subject you know nothing about.

To John 8:08 you asked "What about all the people who died before Jesus walked the earth? Don't they deserve a chance to be baptized as well?

Do you have any method of baptizing a spirit?"

Surely you have missed the points. Those who have died without having heard the Word or accepting of the word will have the chance to do so in the hereafter. A just God will surely allow that to happen to ALL people, even those who were born before Jesus "walked the earth."

Now to mamapapaluv 9:04 just like the person who wrote the Letter to the Editor, I too would never be offended if a Catholic, Lutheran, Jew, Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist, Nudist, Humanist, Atheiest, and any other ist were to Baptize, pray for, or any other religious rite on my behalf after I go on. Why are you so offended?

With all due respect, I can see by the postings above that some Mormons aren't getting it.

Look at it this way:
Would you go to a place uninvited?
I was brought up to never do this.

mamapapaluv, Think about it... If they really believe 1) God has commanded them to do this, 2)Their salvation depends on them doing the work for their dead, and 3)They feel that even though it may offend you in this life, it may save you/someone else in the after-life... Do you REALLY expect them to go against all this to not offend you?

Understanding all of that, you're telling them they should Offend God by blatanly disobeying his commandment to keep you happy?

Which do you think they should be more concerned about offending? God, or mamapapaluv?

Do you get their dilemna?

Do you really expect them to totally disregard their faith and do what YOU want (instead of what GOD wants) because you've chosen to take offense at this practice? One that they truely believe in the worst case, has totally no meaning, and possibly is the greatest gift imaginable?

I know this may come off as "arrogant" to not presume that Mormons are wrong, and some may choose to take offense at that. All I ask is that you re-think your choice to take offense and factor-in the position Momons are in. Is it really that offensive?

To Anonymous 11:11 You wrote "With all due respect, I can see by the postings above that some Mormons aren't getting it.

Look at it this way:
Would you go to a place uninvited?
I was brought up to never do this. "

Just remember, christ has said "Come unto me..."

You are invited..

To "too mamapapaluv"

Yes, it is extremely offensive. That's why my church, the only true, Catholic, holy and Apostolic church, mandated that parishes not give our information to mormon baptizers. We could never conceive of being baptized into what we believe is a phony religion.

Pure and simple.

It should be acknowledged here that many, if not all, of the proxy baptisms since 2002 for Jews without Latter-day Saint descendants may have been performed against church policy at the whim of individual members, because there is neither notification to or acknowledgement within the temple of the race or the religion of any deceased individual being served.

My dear Mormon friends and neighbors:

Not long ago, the Jews let you know how they felt about baptizing their dead (contact with Jewish deceased is strictly forbidden in the Torah).

What makes you think OTHER denominations don't feel the same way?

Please refrain from doing proxy baptisms into your folk religion.

Ours is perfectly fine without this practice.

Where are your manners?

Baptism for the dead is a ritual invented by Joseph Smith for the purpose of entering dead people into heaven who did not have the opportunity, or who did not take the opportunity to join the Mormon Church. Even though the Book of Mormon is supposed to contain the fullness of the gospel, it never mentions the doctrine of baptism for the dead, not even once. The word ‘baptism’ appears 25 times in the Book of Mormon. The word ‘baptize’ appears 28 times. The word ‘baptized’ appears 85 times, and the word ‘baptizing appears 6 times, but the doctrine of baptism for the dead isn’t even mentioned once.”If the Mormon Church claims that the Book of Mormon contains the fullness of the gospel, then why are Mormons doing baptisms for the dead when it is not mentioned in the Book of Mormon?

"So does this mean there are literally billions of Asians just hanging out in the lower levels because we will never, ever get their names?"

Not to worry. They have their Buddha to get them to heaven.

The Roman Catholic Church, officially known as the Catholic Church,is the world's largest Christian church, representing over half of all Christians and one-sixth of the world's population.It is made up of one Western church (the Latin Rite) and 22 Eastern Catholic churches, and is divided into 2,782 jurisdictional areas around the world.The Church looks to the Bishop of Rome (the pope), currently Pope Benedict XVI, as their highest visible authority in matters of faith, morals, and Church governance.

Kindly refrain from proxy baptisms of Catholics. There are far too many of them.

you are showing your ignorance wrz.

you obviously know nothing of Buddha and of heaven (nirvana)

To those who keep lying to people on this website that these baptisms are counted in church membership... Think about what you are saying. Of course these people are not counted as "Members of the Church", no one on this earth knows if they have or ever will accepted this proxy ordinance! They decision is 100% up to them. So how could they be counted as "members" already? Your mis-information doesn't even make sense.

Anonymous 7:42 cuts through all the distractions that are being posted here and really gets to the point. Though I support LDS baptism of the dead, my hat is off to him for keeping on topic and laying out some very good reasoning.

I'm going to have to think some more now.

While members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints consider it a great service to perform vicarious ordinances for the deceased, some non-members have taken offense. To be sensitive to the issue of proxy baptizing for non-Mormons that are not related to Church members, the Church in recent years has published a general policy of only performing temple ordinances for direct ancestors of Church members. For example, the Church is in the process of removing sensitive names (such as Jewish Holocaust victims) from its International Genealogical Index. D. Todd Christofferson of the Church's Presidency of the Seventy stated that removing the names is an "ongoing, labor intensive process requiring name-by-name research ... When the Church is made aware of documented concerns, action is taken ... Plans are underway to refine this process."

Some members of the church have submitted the names of Catholic popes and saints, Holocaust victims, Adolf Hitler and other prominent Nazis for vicarious baptism without adequate permission. In December 2002, independent researcher Helen Radkey published a report showing that, following a 1995 promise from the church to remove Jewish Nazi victims from its International Genealogical Index, the church's database included the names of about 19,000 who had a 40 to 50 percent chance of having "the potential to be Holocaust victims ... in Russia, Poland, France, and Austria." Genealogist Bernard Kouchel conducted a search of the International Genealogical Index, and discovered that many well known Jews had been vicariously baptized, including Maimonides, Albert Einstein, and Irving Berlin, without a system in place to ensure permissions were obtained.

From the founding of their religion in 1830, Mormons have respected Judaism as a religion. Thus in 1994, Jews were outraged when it became known that members of LDS were posthumously baptizing Holocaust victims and other Jewish dead. Many followers of Judaism find the practice highly offensive, something akin to the forced baptism of Jews practiced for centuries in Europe.

I don't think Mormons really care if anyone is offended at this folk-religion practice.

@not in the BofM

Please don't attempt to use LDS doctrine to critique LDS doctrine. You only show that you do not understand the LDS concepts of scripture and doctrine, and in particular the phrase "fullness of the gospel."

In short, there are many things the Book of Mormon doesn't address, such as baptism for the dead and the degrees of glory. The phrase "fullness of the gospel" refers to the basic concepts of of faith in Jesus Christ, repentance in His name, baptism by immersion, and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. These things the BofM teaches extensively and powerfully.

The Book of Mormon never purports to contain very true principle that exists, nor does the LDS Church claim such. If so, why does the Doctrine and Covenants exist, or the Pearl of Great Price, or ongoing revelation?

When it comes to baptism for the dead the LDS rely more on the New Testament (Paul to the Corinthians, Jesus proclaiming the universal need for authoritative baptism) and D&C.

Jewish groups such as the Simon Wiesenthal Center, which operates the Museum of Tolerance in Los Angeles, opposed the vicarious baptism of Holocaust perpetrators and victims in the mid 1990s and again in the 2000s when they discovered the practice was continuing. Vicarious baptism had been performed for Simon Wiesenthal himself after his death. They said the practice was insulting and an affront to Jews who died because of their religion. Rabbi Marvin Hier of the center said: "If these people did not contact the Mormons themselves, the adage should be: Don't call me, I'll call you. With the greatest of respect to them, we do not think they are the exclusive arbitrators of who is saved." Aaron Breitbart, a researcher with the Center believes the church was showing insensitivity to the living and their dead ancestors. "They did not get baptized when they were alive and they had a choice, and doing so after they are dead is beyond the ethical bounds."

"you are showing your ignorance wrz.

you obviously know nothing of Buddha and of heaven (nirvana)"

True, true.

So, you tell us whether Buddha can get Asians to heaven.

To mamapapaluv - if the catholic church is the only true church why are they named after other people and not Christ or God? St. Mary's, St. James, St. John's, Our Lady of _______(fill in the blank).

If you think baptism for the dead is ill-mannered or offensive, tell us your religion and I can bet we will find strange beliefs there also.

The fact that there is absolutely NOTHING in the B of M regarding the odd practice of baptizing dead people, the problem once again boils down to either Joseph Smith was telling the truth of was lying.

Either way, like the Jewish problem already stated above, baptize your own and leave the mainstream churches to their own means.

It's simply an ethical thing that my mother would have said is good manners.

wrz -
Sounds like you're bored today.

Okay, since you asked, Buddha means "enlightened one."
The concept of a place, planet, sky (something always "out there" someplace, was created by man.
The basis of Buddhism is to guard yourself against the ego.
Nirvana is when a being chooses to no longer return to this existence (to assist all sentient beings) and return to their origin of pure energy.

There are lots of books on this fastest-growing philosophy in The West. Check it out.

Uh-oh, I see wrz is wisely trying to change the subject.

I humbly suggest to keep these odd beliefs in the closet and to yourselves, my Mormon brothers and sisters, and all will be fine.

No Joyce J -
Before we go ahead and discuss other religious (I believe the topic of this blog is Baptism for the dead) let's just continue on the ethical bounds of one religion performing their rituals on others without their permission.

Since no one is going to stop baptizing for the dead anytime soon I suggest we all go back to forgetting that the Mormons do this... Out of sight out of mind.
Of course there is that thrill we all get from beating a dead horse, over and over and over and over.....

So... You obviously have more issues with your Mormon friends than Baptim for the dead.

Do you still insist they not follow what they believe is a "Commandment from God" just to make you happier with them? When it is obvious that even if they did this for you, it wouldn't make you happy with them anyway?

You said, "It's simply an ethical thing".

Since when are religions required to submit their beliefs to ethical review by Anonymous guys on the internet and seek the approval of outsiders (who hate them... and would continue hating them even if they submitted and changed their beliefs to appease the pompus group of outsiders)?

Do you change your religious beliefs whenever anonymous guys on the internet say they don't like them?

Mormon's aren't the only ones who don't change their faith to get the approval of their anonymous haters.

Instead of beating that dead horse - why not just baptize him?

We owe a decent respect to the opinions of others, but we are not under a duty to conform all of our actions to the most-sensitive common denominator.

to: 12:02 -
"commandment from God?"
With all due respect, there is nothing in the B of M that COMMANDS proxy baptism.
Please study what happened with the Jews in 1990 and again in 2000 and you may understand the problem.

Who is WE, Thomas?
General Authorities said to knock this practice off.
(you know, like polygamy)But some of those WE are still doing it (like little kids in the cookie jar).
It infuriates not only the Jews but everybody else.
Why not try being not-so-peculiar for a spell and see what happens?
Might even fit in with mainstream America someday.

Associate dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center, Abraham Cooper, complained that infamous figures such as Adolf Hitler and Eva Braun appeared on LDS genealogical records at all: "Whether official or not, the fact remains that this is exactly the kind of activity that enraged and hurt, really, so many victims of the Holocaust and caused alarm in the Jewish community. Whatever framework in which it is presented, the notion of performing these sort of rites for Hitler, Himmler and other Nazis . . . is beyond [understanding]."