What I think a lot of people fail to realize with this whole issue is you have a lot of children at YFZ ranch/prison being raised by "mothers" that aren't even their mothers. You children that have been forced to leave their real parents and reassigned to someone else. That's kidnapping. Any "father" or "mother" at YFZ ranch/prison raising such children are guilty of either kidnapping or are an accomplice. I'm sorry, no religion has the right to take mine or anyone elses' child away and give them to someone else that the church views as a better parent.

Texeas needs to be broken up into about 15 smaller states. Too much power.

What has happened so far? 1. Just like the Lawrence V TX case, this one began with a fraudulent phone call. 2. The warrant has been dropped for the "abusive polygamist spouse" as false. 3. All children were removed. 4. Adult women were listed as children despite proof of age. 5. CPS admits that some "children" were women. 6. Though all were termed "polygamist" we have found that not all practice polygamy but are instead monogamous. 7. We found that despite the claim by CPS and Ex-flds, of "no competitive activities", there are basketball courts that are used among the Colorado City FLDS. 8. Despite the claim of welfare fraud, TX found no instances of welfare among the TX FLDS. 9 Despite the claim of underage marriage, the bishop's records show that women were 16, the legal age according to TX law. 10. Despite claims of physical abuse due to broken bones, the number of broken bones was LOWER than the average population. 11. Despite the claim that these people live communally, they live in separate apartments as family groups.

This is basic procedure. The service plans look like standard service plans as well.

CPS is not going to want polygamy in these children's lives. It is going to want the parents to protect the children's rights. This means that Warren Jeffs or the FLDS church will not be able to assign husbands to child brides or to transport young girls to other destinations. He won't be able to order underage boys out of their homes. He won't be able to reassign wives to husbands.

How does someone who has followed Warren Jeff's every order prove to the court that she will discontinue doing this? Certainly not by living in FLDS housing. The polygamous husbands have probably long disappeared. The moms will have to show that they can function independently. The moms are undereducated and may not even have high school diplomas. They've been pushed to have lots of children and they never prepared for the day when they would have to support all of these kids on their own. While the moms work, the kids will have to be in public school, which would be a awful place to be if you sport an odd hairdo/dress.

Kidnapping,

And I'm sorry, no government has the right to take mine or anyone else's child away and give them to someone else that the government views as a better parent.

These children deserve a chance at being in homes where they know who their mother and father are and can be themselves. I agree with kidnapping on everything and applaud the government of TX for taking on such a huge undertaking in hopes of salvaging their innocence & childhood.

Even if they promise to change their life-style... who thinks these parents can afford to employ the kind of representation required to fight the government in court?

No matter what they do they will never see their children again. Get used to it.

CPS is putting the parents on notice, that it's time for the true legal parents/guardians of each child to identify themselves.

No more hiding. No more equivocating.

If they want their children back, it's showtime (as in, show legal proof that these are your children).

They should have gone after FLDS men instead of the women. The men are the ones to blame and should be the ones in custody just like Warren Jeffs. Kind of backwards.

This poor soul is practicing "his" religion and forcing it on women and children.

That is just wrong.

Texas was wrong in their attempt to protect the children. They should have taken all the men.

The women and children are brainwashed and brought up this way...so know no other.

It's a sad situation for all. But, when so called men get a little power...look what they can do with it...

Women are not meant to be slaves to their husbands or men folk...neither are the children meant to be slaves to old men who want to sleep around.

Call it religion, but I call it disgusting.

Things should have been handled better...no doubt...this world is in a mess with it's own problems...bottom line...these children need someone to protect them...and if the parents will not, then the state has to do it...although their approach and tactics were dead wrong.

Why, Samuel Roundy, you're lying for the Lord, aren't you?

You know why there's such a small divorce rate among the FLDS? Because most of the wives are not legally married to their husbands! That really skews the statistics, doesn't it, when most of the women do not have legal ties to the men they call "husbands."

And yet, these wives and their children can be taken away ("reassigned" is the euphemism used in the FLDS) from one man and given to another, if Warren Jeffs (or whoever happens to be in charge at the moment) decides to do so.

You may have escaped from what you consider to be the whoredoms of this evil world, but you've replaced it with child marriage, "reassignment" and the Lost Boys. No Thanks!

Your delusional to think that a foster home is a better place for these children.

The Children are well adjusted and intelligent.

The Women although not encouraged had free movement.

The ones being brainwshed are any person who feels this is justifeid in any way shape or form.

It is wrong on so many levels that it sickens me.

The State VS the Family. The State is winning look
at Calif. Soon people will be able to marry there pets.

Any of you who beleive the Goverment, should follow the Police to the KOOL aid so you won't miss the train to Heaven.

WAKE UP

If the flds parents ever want to get their children back they will have to start cooperating with the Texas CPS authorities. That may be difficult for many of them since they are so used to accepting whatever Warren Jeffs tells them; even when following his edicts leads to illegal behavior.

I quote:
"Because most of the wives are not legally married to their husbands!"
If they are not "legally married"
How can they be arrested or charged with "Bigamy" or "Polygamy"
As the law is written, it requires a a minimum of 2 "legal" marriages with papers to be charged.
No wedding,No crime. One wife and multiple girlfriends, the normal situation in the good ole USA

I hope that the lawyers give Texas heck!!

"... these wives and their children can be taken away ("reassigned" is the euphemism used in the FLDS) from one man and given to another, ... "

Well, better that then "reassigned" to a secular foster home as Texas CPS advocates.
As for "child marriage", Texas didn't seem to have a problem with their ghettos and barrios full of teen pregnancies, who will never be married, until FLDS showed up....then all of a sudden they needed to raise the legal age from 14 to 16.
Religious persecution at it's ugliest. When it's all said and done, the civil rights attorneys are going to rip Texas a new one.

To: Poor soul

You know next to nothing about this case.

Go read up on it before you post again so you don't look like such a fool.

To: FLDS Divorce Rate (It's a NICKNAME dufus!)

Don't waste our time with the same tired, baseless accusations.

The FLDS deny everything you accuse them of.

Offer up evidence or shut up.

Texas and cps continues to disgust me.

Let's get this fact through our thick skulls: This case is not about children, nor is is about protecting children; this case is about the State of Texas determining for itself which laws it will follow and which laws it will ignore.

Texas has no desire to protect children, since it has the highest rate of teenage pregnancies in the nation. If Texas was really concerned about teenage pregnancies and if Texas used the same methods to control teenage pregnancies, it would have at least 80,000 teenage mothers in custody (per year) along with their parents and all of their siblings. Anyone can Google Texas teenage pregnancies and find the facts for themselves.

Texas has made a total mockery of our government. They have decided to oppress a segment of society, a segment made up of CITIZENS of the United States, then to spread lies about those people. Texas has run unchecked. Senators and Representatives have hidden under their desks, claiming that this a problem for Texas. That's for us, the people of this nation, to determine. If a Senator or Representative is too busy to help, he/she is too busy to stay in office.

What is "illegal" about communal living?

I heard on my drive to lunch that none of the children will be returned if CPS observers see any signs of communal living in any of these homes.

Is sharing parental responsibilities now illegal? I thought that was something Hillary Clinton was advocating in her "It takes a village" campaign. Clinton's point was... the people in the community (hmmm, I wonder if the root word in "Community" is "Commune") need to help each other to raise their kids or we will fail.

The main difference I see in Clinton's "Village" and the FLDS life-style is Clinton's village substitutes families helping families with a plan where government controled day-care centers, medical centers, food-banks and other Commune-ity Services replace the family-helping-family concept.

Did California and other states go after the hippies in the 60's living in communes? Is that life-style illegal now? Does the state have the right to remove children even though the family is doing nothing illegal, just because they don't LIKE the way the family lives (or their religion)?

I agree with Texas punishing where laws were broken. I don't agree with the state's plan to withold children for legal life-style choices.

Earl
"One wife and multiple girlfriends, the normal situation in the good ole USA"

Good point, Earl.

If they really want to stop the FLDS, they can just bring back the old adultry laws. There ought to be a lot of support in the legislaure for that.

WAKE UP

"they are so used to accepting whatever Warren Jeffs tells them..."

Soooo... now they should accept whatever CPS tells them?

I should't be surprised. any person who mindlessly repeats baseless claims he hears on TV can be expected to mindlessly negate his own arguments.

Get a clue, man. Nobody will listen to you if you don't sharpen up your thinking.

It seems to me that if the allegations were based on a prank-call, and none of the allegations has been proven, then the FLDS men are "innocent, until proven guilty." According to the Constitution, these men, women and children cannot be held any longer--unless there is proof of the allegations. If there are individuals that are guilty of the abuse, then they need to be charged. But to arrest and separate an entire population, based on dubious allegations, and a prank phone call, is wrong. Which religion is next?

"these parents" as members of a church/business/trust worth $100 millon can well afford to fight for their kids in court.

Sorry Earl.

There-in lies the dilemma. In Texas it has been written into law that it is illegal. Texas also has common-law marriage. No marriage ceremony of any kind need be performed. Altho seemingly the FLDS have performed religious ceremonies and declare themselves to be married. Now under Texas law they are married and have to divorce in Texas courts if they separate. Reassigning doesn't cut it under Texas law. If they were sic "married" in another state and now declare themselves to be married in the state of Texas, they have dug themselves a deep hole and jumped in. That said the marriage issue is a total separate issue. The primary issue in Texas is the protection of minor children. Citizens of Texas whose rights have to be defended.

A few thousand Texans need to send a letter or email to their politicians demanding that this government abuse stop....and it would. Elected officials value your vote in the next election over all else.

This dude Roundy is a real piece of work! He believes men are better than women and should have full control of women, because some ancestor of his made up the rule, and these men keep propogating it (because they like it of course - whay guy wouldn't?). Too crazy. See, if he was smart he wouldn't have said that, but he's so out of touch that HE DOESN'T EVEN REALIZE HOW BACKWOODS HE IS. That's why the children were taken. Not because of underage marriages or incest (although that's really nasty). The children were taken because these wackos believe they are the masters and all under them should bow to their superiority. What a crock.
The only way to break this vicious cycle of civil-rights abuse is to spread them all across the land so the women and children can have a chance at a real life instead of a life of servitude under these megomaniac men.
Obviously these men have a superiority complex, and they take it out on their family. All love and kindness? It's obvious from his choice of words that if his family doesn't revere him, he has no use for them. How sad.

"You children that have been forced to leave their real parents and reassigned to someone else. That's kidnapping."

You have children who have been forced to leave their homes on the FLDS Ranch and reassigned to live somewhere else. That's kidnapping. Even worse, it's done by the government.

One way for sure, to keep the attention of the FLDS on the issue is to swipe and sequester their kids.

You're making no sense. The fact is that these men are running roughshod over these women and children, creating their own little slave kingdom. The women are scared to death and the children so indoctrinated it's pathetic.
The biggest problem with your posts is that it's painfully obvious that you agree with this Roundy dude, who's still stuck in the middle ages. You obviously also believe you are superior to women and that they should be subservient to you.
I suggest you all move to Afganistan or Saudi Arabia, where your lack of faith in a woman's ability will fit right in. And say hello to your friend Warren next time you visit him - your FLDS colors are showing quite well...
And Texas did right removing all the childen. Sorry it's made life so unbearable for you. Guess you'll have to clean your own bathroom and share in the meanial chores, just like the rest of American men. (or again you could move to the middle east where thay have their own little slave servant thing going on - you'd fit right in.)
Fact is, you are not better than women, and you're actually worse than most.

Does it matter which minority they use to Slaughter us. C'mon FLDS you’re not picked on, you are just the available target. If you had not existed they would have found a different minority to use, end goal is Destruction of the USA Constitution, wake up folks, and stop helping them.

"The FLDS deny everything you accuse them of."

So did Warren Jeffs.

But he was still sent to prison for being an accomplice to rape for performing a forced, underage marriage.

The truth is coming out and the shackles are being broken. The days of abusive men controlling the lives of innocent women and children are coming to an end.

No matter what the TX government convinces themselves the right thing is, the whole idea of be being judge, jury and executioner is wrong. The right to a free trial, of being innocent until proven guilty and countless other basic freedoms have gone out the window in this fiasco. It IS obvious that this is not a separation of church and state. These people are being persecuted for their religion. If there are isolated events of abuse or neglect, then deal with it discreetly and respectfully and to the least harm of the children. If, indeed, TX CPS primary concern is for the welfare of their children, they certainly have a strange way of showing it. And, I say again: Do NOT paint everyone with the same brush. "Do unto others...."

Oops! That's 'right of a FAIR trial'... not free.

Do a little search on "u.s. Teenage Pregnancy statistics". Read the pdf file by guttmacher and see how "innocent" Texas is regarding age 14 and under pregnancies BEFORE the FLDS even arrived. It is an eye-opening document and a national tragedy. Oddly and even ironically, the documents seems to actually moralize the FLDS. With that information in hand, why is the Texas govt. targeting them? I see no other headlines but the numbers suggest a crisis. Karl Malone impregnated a 12/13 year old but where is the public outcry? Oh, the public was too busy cheering their "hero" instead of charging him.

"That's why the children were taken. Not because of underage marriages or incest (although that's really nasty). The children were taken because these wackos believe they are the masters and all under them should bow to their superiority."

I'm sure the ACLU would like to hear your expert analysis, since this is exactly the sort of thing they stated that bothered them about this case.

"So Far," you hit the nail on the head. People blinded by their own opinions and disgust refuse to look at the facts in hand: these people have been rounded up like cattle and branded. I don't like their lifestyle, and the sexual abuse must be determined, addressed, and dealt with, but each day I become more shocked and horrified. I am ashamed of our country.

Mike Richards, I agree. This isn't about equal rights, it's about political expediency.

I don't necessarily agree with the CPS' heavy-handedness, but someone needed to get those children out of there. In case none of you noticed, their civil rights were being STOMPED ON!!! You all worry so much about the parents. What about a child that's confined to a compound (with 10 ft walls and a guardtower), never to see the outside, especially the girls. Dont you think these kids have hopes and dreams, and should be allowed to fulfill them as they get older? They could do great things. But they never will, because from the time they are born, they are told everyone and everything outside is evil, and if they leave they will go to hell. They are told this EVERY DAY by people that they trust. They are destined to be enslaved (albeit in ignorant bliss) for their whole lives. Ignoring child brides, abuse, etc - they have no future there and that is abuse and a violation of their civil rights. It's too bad everyone is so concerned about the parents' rights and no one (except Texas) seems to care about the children's rights...

Attention FLDS (and supporters) - It is painfully obvious that you people care more for your religion than you do for your children. If the child doesn’t do exactly as required by your extremely strict religion, they are kicked out. And not just kicked out … they are banished from every having a relationship with you …ever. That shows a total disregard for your children’s well being.
So stop with the sympathy attempts. We believe you to be hapless sheep following a crazy “prophet’s” directives and caring much more about yourselves than you do about your children. Otherwise you wouldn’t choose your religion over your own children, which you do every time you let the “prophet” determine your child’s fate and banish your own children from your lives. And if you really cared about your children, you would give them the tools needed to survive in the real world instead of trying to imprison them in your little group. Ignoring child brides, abuse, etc … you are simply not good parents, as you do not let your children become their own person. Texas is being kinder to your children than you could possibly understand.

Why do you keep saying, "This is basic procedure"?

Just because it's "Basic procedure" doesn't make it "right".

That's what this whole discussion and debate are about. Many people feel the broad extent and the "Assume they are all guilty, void their parental rights now and sort it out later if we get time" attitude is not right (even if it is "Basic procedure").

If you think this is a "Standard Procedure" custody case I question your comprehension of the scope and the level of what is going on. I'll bet you can't point out one other case that is just like this one. It doesn't fit into the "Standard Procedure works best" box. I'm afraid we're going to have to use our heads and hearts on this one.

Repeating tne mantra, "But it's standard procedure" seems un-flexible and heartless when you are dealing with the large numbers of young, nieve, sheltered children involed in this case. We are treading new ground somewhat here and need to constantly be thinking, "What's best in this specific case" not "What's standard procedure". This isn't your every-day child abuse case.

Show me 1 child, TX isn't even suggesting such, that has been kicked out of the TEXAS compound. The real problem is that the FLDS are being targeted because they are different. But fortunately the constitution allows for religious freedom. There is no welfare fraud either. Please stick with facts.

And yet Angie Voss said there was no way she could see to secure the ranch with those 10 fooot walls and a guard towers.

The more that 80-year old man ranted, the more I was disgusted by him. He's actually defending sexism, talking holier than thou as if the FLDS community is void of pedophilia, incest, and rape.

All the ills of our society are found in theirs. Warren Jeffs' nephew says he was sodomized repeatedly as a child by Jeffs. People are being treated as slaves and currency. They are anti-education, especially for the women. They kick their underaged sons out on the street for minor infractions. Notice that none of the women sounded that heated when they were interviewed.

What they don't have is the fundamental right of free agency, which is more profoundly evil than all the evils he listed.

They should have let someone a little more educated and civilized write that letter. He just made the FLDS look worse.

Well, the ACLU can do what they want. Why are you even mentioning them? If you're going to comment on my post, then make it a reasonable comment. These men are forcing these women and children into servitude. I'm sure the ACLU doesn't like that. Do you?

I hope you feel "properly chastized". You are right. It is "standard procedure". Everyone who pays attention and is not FLDS knows that this case is unprecedented.
It is interesting to note how quick the FLDS are to jump on the "defense" bandwagon. We are automatically wrong and they are automatically right. I don't think so.
I have a question. Why is it that the same women are shown on the news to be interviewed? Is it because they have memorized their parts a little better than some of the others? Or is it because they are afraid that some of the other women may not be programmed as well?

"As the law is written, it requires a minimum of 2 "legal" marriages with papers to be charged."--Earl

Actually, no. The way the law is written in Texas, the mere appearance of marriage is sufficient to get you on bigamy. They have an eyeball test for marriage, just as they have an eyeball test for age that trumps any documents you might have, and an eyeball test for guilt that trumps the constitution.

CPS says "don't go back to the Ranch (home) or you will loose your children". The State mails them "you are sued letters" to the ranch and says if they don't show up they will loose their children. They split each family's children across 900 miles and say if they miss a visitation they will loose their children. They say get a stable home but visit your children in 3 locations all over the state and go to the psych evals and classes (probably on visitation days) and if you miss them you will loose your children. Seems like they are trying every which way to keep them from even trying to succeed. I am surprised they didn't say "if you look at us the wrong way you will loose your children".

Yes, the government does have a right to take your children away. The government's responsibility is to ensure the rights of everyone, including children, are maintained. So, if a child is living in circumstances where their own rights are being violated (ie forced marriages, physical and mental abuse) the government can come in and take the child away. Such responsibility does not apply to religions. Religions are not policing forces. If they were we would live in a theocracy.

The FLDS like to think they are above the law and live according to their own and have their own theocracy. But anyone living within the borders of the U.S. lives in a democracy where the government, by popular demand, is responsible for guarding our rights.

Two wrongs don't make a right, if indeed there was even a wrong to begin with at the FLDS ranch.

CPS is far more authoritarian than any man at the FLDS. I've never heard of an FLDS man being able to take his wife's children, and all the children of the FLDS, and say they belong not to the mother/s, but to the State.

Your child, baby could be next.

All it takes is one anonymous phone call, and one CPS worker before neverending Hell begins.

Act now, before it's too late.