Good! However I do not see why they had to be defended in the first place. Of course they where right, what are you going to do ignore the issue, send them back because you went about it the wrong way. It is like an abused child that recants in order to keep the Abuser in the Home and mostly paying the bills. Does the incident wake up and scare the abuser. No! The Abuser has control and they say that no one will believe the accuser the next time. The abuse continues. This is why the State once in the situation has to continue regardless of what the abused person says. The victims say that, No Abuse takes place and everyone has free choice. However when have you known a 13 year old girl wanting to Merry a 50 year old man. The Girls are not going to feed into or want to do that even if conditioned to do so, they would not, because it goes against the very core of human nature. There has got to be force, either real force, perceived force, or the pressure of peer pressure, as in what happens if I don't.

"There was one person with control over the whole structure and kids were getting hurt" then arrest that men or men and leave the women and children alone. I watched "Fiddler on the Roof" yesterday. One line that hit me very hard was "it´s not about me I am following orders" both sides of this story are following orders without thinking for themselves. if someone is using unrighteous dominon then amen to the priesthood of that man. On the government side it was the Nazi´s who used the I was only following orders. It takes courage to say no to leaders. You may lose your life for doing it, but how many other lives may be saved by you taking a stand. FLDS read it in the D&C sec 121 it is there.

It is shocking that that the attorney generals of Utah and Arizona would support would the disruption of so many families. The fact is that there is no evidence of systamatic abuse. Both the parents and the chidren have their legal right to individual hearings. And the attorney generals see nothing wrong with this.

When the parents and these children refused to give their names, ages, etc to the people trying to investigate this mess, I think that is how it all started to go downhill. It seemed to snowball from there. If these parents wanted to do the right thing, they wouldn't have scratched out the names on the ID bracelets and would have tried to work with CPS. All they did was cast more suspicion on what they were trying to cover up. I am not sympathetic to them at all. I do feel very concerned for the kids in this mess that their parents contributed to. As far as I'm concerned about the families that were visiting from Utah, they should have spoken up from the start. Who knows, maybe they did. But starting off the way it did, I'm not surprised at how it is playing out.

There's no obligation to "communicate" in advance with criminals, just read them their rights on the way to jail.

It is important to protect children, BUT how is ripping children from their mothers arms by the 100's not abuse; and placing them in the homes of strangers not abuse. There was no due process of the law in each case. NONE! Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferso, both said, and I paraphrase, if one gives up freedom for security, then they do not deserve liberty. We have given up that liberty many times over in the past decades. Tyranny is tyranny, and the government doesn't always know best, look at our schools.

"We are rapidly coming to the conclusion". Unless Texas has something they have not provided the tax payers paying for this this is a serious travisty. CPS has not provided publically any abuse to ALL these families. Sure, there are a few that might need to be investigated according to Bishop's Records) but it seems Texas wants these children for only God knows what. I have read fightcps online and it really scares me now. I know CPS saves children but there is a huge dark side that is tearing up families needlessly. No wonder they are on drugs in foster care--it is to help them cope from separation from their loved ones! Something is very fishy that Texas does not follow their own witness's advice and does not follow their law to do all they can to reunite the family. The children are starting to have bonds disenigrate (2 weeks for toddlers) and that is abuse if they are not in "iminent danger". Most of these children's lives were not in danger and safety plans and monitoring would have sufficed as the investigation insued.

The URL in the story is wrong. It's captivefldschildren dot org. (not captured)

Did I hear right on radio? Utah will not prosecute being polygamists for being polygamists? Even though it is against the law?

weird state Utah.

>>"It's unfortunate so few are giving a bad name to so many."

Who are the "good guys" getting a bad name?

Polygamy only has perpetrators and victims.
The children and any women in it because they can't get out are victims.
The men and women who participate willingly are LAW BREAKING PERPETRATORS.
There are no "good names" to besmerch.

Shurtleff doesn't get it yet.

Shurtleff is wasting time finding out how many polygamous relatives in Utah/Arizona would take in Texas FLDS children.
I doubt Texas is foolish enough to throw those innocent victims back into the FLDS lion's den.

"We assure you we do not plan a raid (here) to end polygamy. We are not going to do that... we don't believe that's the answer."

WHAT IS THE ANSWER?

Enlighten us, PLEASE.

(ps: if the answer is more of the same save your breath)

"And yet, many members in the audience, which included hundreds of people from various polygamous groups, said they were not convinced their lifestyle is safe from prosecution."

boohoo

Criminals leaving in fear of prosecution!

Only in America!

If only they had a reason to fear. Shurtleff will pat their hands and give them a hanky and they will cry on each others' sholders but don't hold your breath waiting for the law to be enforced.

Hey, if the attorneys general of Utah and Arizona support the closure of this prison camp in texas...does this mean they would support similar action here along their shared border? I'd like to see it.

Shurtleff seems way too conflicted to be able to serve as Attorney General:

He agrees the Texas action was right and best but vows Utah will take no such action.

He vows he is sworn to uphold the law but says outright he will not prosecute polycamy.

He whines constantly that he doesn't have enough resources yet meets openly with hundreds of avowed polygamist.

Shurtleff is obviously in way over his head.
He is either emotionally unable or intellectually unwilling to do his job.

The next election is way too far off, resign now and let Utah move on to the next page.

Wow,
I cant believe how these people portray themselves as being lily white..
I live near these people.. They are all about manipulation. Granted, the group in Centennial park is much more normal and accepting of outsiders. They are however a very small group compared to the Colorado City first ward, as they call themselves.
But the bottom line is, they feel that religion warrants breaking any law.. Including all forms of dishonestly. Ive seen it first hand.. Why do you think locals wont take checks from them?

There is nothing fundamental about fundamentalism.

"We stand ready to help, and there are a number of ways we can do that," said Goddard. "Right now, Texas is claiming they're an independent republic and we need to establish diplomatic relations with them."

I think this is probably true, and until the
Federal Courts become involved, that attitude will not change.

It's a sad day when there are illegally imprisoned adults that CPS claims are minors. One, 24, is going to be giving birth soon, and has a birth certificate and driver's license. Her husband, with their lawyer, is trying to get her freed, but has been unable. Since when does CHILD Protective Services have the authority to hold ADULTS against their will? Texas CPS is also illegally imprisoning Canadian citizens, but you're not going to hear that from the AP, either.

The article quotes a Mr. Timpson suggesting that law enforcement agencies are out of line when acting against "well meaning parents." We need to keep in mind that the SLC mother, who killed her young adopted child by forcing her to drink an extremely excessive amount of water, thought she was a well meaning parent. The mother in South Carolina who drowned all her children by driving the family car into a lake thought she was well meaining.

Thinking one is acting as a well meaning parent does not in and of itself qualify as protecting the interests of children. If a parent allows thier 14 year old daughter to be submitted to statutory rape, because you are well meaning in adhering to the words of church leaders, then things have went wrong.

Doug: You may find states other than Utah also weird then, as most states will not prosecute polygamy between consenting adults. In fact one would be hard pressed to find more than a handfull of polygamy cases tried in a US court in the last 20 or 30 years.

Shurtleff swaging finger again assuring people that he will not uphold the law.

He is a disgrace to the rule of law.

Thank goodness that Mark Shurtleff is "conflicted." Apparently he struggles with issues of polygamy, as many of his fellow Utahns may. However, he's shown his fidelity to the Constitution and the enduring struggle to balance the demands of the many with the fundamental rights of the few.

Whether or not one agrees that polygamy ought to be decriminalized, every citizen of Utah who holds dear to the legacy of government of law under the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of Utah should be grateful for an Attorney General who deliberates and weighs the necessity for the heavy hand of law enforcement against the rights of due process, access to courts and justice, and other fundamental liberties.

I don't agree with much done by the leaders of Shurtleff's political party, and I despair that Utah is controlled by a small cabal of far right politicians committed to preserve their power base and personal economic security at all costs. However, Shurtleff is a voice of reason and deliberation in a season of disregard for our precious Constitution. He's one Republican (maybe the only one) who will have my vote.

Why wasn't the federal government's top official in Utah even invited? Polygamy crimes won't be solved until the federal government loses its fear of Ruby Ridge and Waco. The FBI may have really screwed up in those two cases, but they seem to have learned their lesson. Let the federal attorney general Tolman have his shot. The federal government took care of polygamy in the 1890s. Orrin Hatch and Bob Bennett ought to listen to Harry Reid and get out of Tolman's way.

nobody ever thought shurtleff would 'cowboy up'....what a joke!

the fundamentalist isolate them selves until it's time to spend their welfare benefits in St. George. If the people of utah would start treating them like the abomination they are, they would go away.

they run around st. George willy nilly, but if you try to drive on the public roads in Colorado city, you get followed by the 'god-squad'

Utah needs a new AG

Shurtleff really will not acknowledge that child marriages and abuse is not going on in Utah/Arizona. I have nothing but contempt for the man. He will do anything to keep his job, anything
This is not about Texas, this is about the refusal of U/A to do the right thing. They have ignored this problem for 150 years. Shurtleff is emotionally incapable of doing his job. He seems to be hiding something.

What evidence does Texas have that every family in the compound was guilty of abuse. They have none, because they didn’t investigate every family. They investigated a group, and condemned all. Do you belong to a group? Would you like to loose your children because of the actions of other members of that group? If the State can ignore due process in this case, be assured they can and will ignore it in others. It is the precedent here that is disturbing. Whether the FLDS are guilty or not will be irrelevant. If the courts uphold such actions, the rights of all parents will be diminished.

Utahans may struggle with polygamy all they wish.

Until and unless it is decriminalized, however, there is no room to struggle with the issue of enforcement of the law.

Shurtleff makes a mockery of the law and his sworn duty to enforce it.

Quit lumping all the polygamists together. They are still people and just like you and me they are all different. Quit judging all the FLDS by what the FLDS in Texas did, it's incredibly judgemental.

>>However when have you known a 13 year old girl wanting to Merry a 50 year old man. The Girls are not going to feed into or want to do that even if conditioned to do so, they would not, because it goes against the very core of human nature. There has got to be force, either real force, perceived force, or the pressure of peer pressure, as in what happens if I don't.<<

I think you'll find that there were 13 year old girls who would jump at the chance to marry fifty year old singing stars like Fran Sinatra or Elvis Presley and fifty year old movie stars like Errol Flinn or Clark Gable. You tell us what the difference would be between that and the FLDS girls?

Call it what you want, when the State of Texas, the Ag's office and CPS stand to gain in the tune of 1.4 million dollars over the adoption of these kids and this does not include the medicaid, medicare, and support kickbacks then there is serious issues of personal pecuinary enterest here.
This case is a clear and present example of a constitutional seizure on a grand praportion that the state of Texas will use as a precedence in further cases of alleged wrong doings with actions taken before finding and verifying the facts.
Someone, somewhere was suspposed to swear on an affidavite that the facts were true prior to this seizure, which was later found to be false, where is the accountability? and since then they started to acquire evidence after the fact, which does not in a constitutional republic justify the means to the ends.

>>When the parents and these children refused to give their names, ages, etc to the people trying to investigate this mess, I think that is how it all started to go downhill.<<

Let's hope they were given their Miranda Warning* before they were asked questions.

*Miranda warning is a warning given by police to criminal suspects in police custody, or in a custodial situation, before they are asked questions relating to the commission of a crime. A custodial situation is where the suspect's freedom of movement is restrained although he or she is not under arrest.

Could it be they need this case to prosecute the leader who is in jail right now?

No more violating and making slaves out of woman. You FLDS fellows can cry a stream--nobody cares!

>>Wow, I cant believe how these people portray themselves as being lily white..
I live near these people.. They are all about manipulation.<<

Manipulation? Which is their right, BTW. Show us the law that prohibits manipulation... especially religious manipulation. I dare say that every human being who has ever lived on this earth has been "manipulated" I.e., taught what some adult would have them believe.

>>What evidence does Texas have that every family in the compound was guilty of abuse. They have none, because they didn’t investigate every family.<<

The claim of abuse is the religious teachings of polygamy and the marrying of girls who are under the age of 16 to older men. Ironically, Texas allowed girls as young as 14 to marry before 2005. And to older men. They changed the law so they could prosecute FLDS when they set foot in Texas. Go figure.

How does the world come about having some people decide to form a cult just to enslave others? Why do some humans decide to this to perfectly innocent people? I cannot quite understand it.
It's a good thing that there are those who can see through all the manipulations of the FLDS. Dressing modest... what a farce! Isn't that like pulling the wool over someone's eyes? And a pretty good try at that, even though it looks terribly weird. All I know, Is that there are too many LIARS in the FLDS religion. A religion based on TOTAL LIES!

If i was online just chatting to some 13 year old about
sex, i would get arrested and rightly so.
yet all these FLDS deffenders try to justify the actual deed.

unbeilable. nuff said

>>Dressing modest... what a farce! Isn't that like pulling the wool over someone's eyes?<<

No. It's like pulling a dress over someone's body.

Texas DFPS filed a response to the parents' petition to the Texas Third Court of Appeals. It included the following:

"As for boys, the danger to them is a "belief system that requires them to follow the prophet," the filing states."

As an LDS member, I find this a bit chilling. What if Texas concludes that something we teach is "child abuse"? I don't expect this to happen tomorrow, of course. But what about 20 years from now? Will teaching our socially-conservative beliefs eventually be considered tantamount to abuse in a society moving increasingly away from traditional values?

Did anybody know the mothers whose lives have been damaged by this incursion? Could a less severe means have been employed to satisfy governmental interests?

Terry Secrest, a seasoned social worker in Austin has been working with several FLDS mothers and their children. She is quoted in an article in the Austin American Statesman by Andrea Ball (5-8-08) Here are a few relevant quotes:

"There are so many unknowns right now," Secrest said. "Usually you know what to expect, but in this case it's so different."

Secrest says she is troubled by what she sees as misconceptions about the FLDS mothers.

They're not brainwashed, she says. They're not zombies. Each woman has her own personality. Some are funny. Some are quiet. All seem strong and independent.

"This is the most delightful group of women . . ."

It seems to me, a far less costly and traumatic approach could have been taken with supervised management and counseling of the women and children in their own home environment.

Far fewer CPS social workers and resources would have been required with an onsite approach pending their investigation of abuse--while the question of Constitutional rights is resolved in the courts.

""As for boys, the danger to them is a "belief system that requires them to follow the prophet," the filing states."

Exhibit "A" in a case against Texas for violation of First Amendment rights.

I don't agree with polygamy, but there are those who enjoy that life.
There isn't really polygamy is there. The United States and it's states recognize one man and one woman as being lawfully married. Any extras are not legally married, they are people living together.
The attorney general should have had their eggs in the right basket instead of taking a flock shot at these people. The infants and small children should be left with their mothers.
The atorney general is trying to make a name for herself.

I believe that the AG in Utah & Arizona are on track to root out abusers from fundamentalist groups. There is no room in polygamist groups for child abusers, molesters, or incest. God-loving fundamentalists want these type of people out as much as any Christian does. I know, because I am a fundamentalist, and I don't want my children growing up with these types of people. I also know that when I was in Montana, Idaho, and Texas, there were these types of people in the various churches there, and since being in Utah and attending the LDS Church, there are child abusers here as well.

Fundamentalist does not equal child abuser. As a community of fundamentalists, we are speaking out against such behavior and taking action as well. I applaud the state in helping us to root this evil out from among us, & yet 'allowing' us to practice what we believe is God-ordained among consenting adults without having to fear about being put in jail, and thus being unable to then protect my children from the perpetrators, both in and out of fundamentalism.

seperation of church and state anyone?
a accusation better have fact from the get go,,and it did not..
I remind you all, these people,CPS attorney generals office are employees, all information given to them is purely voluntary, and cannot be mandated untill adjucated by a Court of Law "Article III Court" you can dislike poligamy and whatever else, but that is youre opinion, and for the record marriage of more than one wife is only illegal under state law, under state license, but not under the church,,I am not for or against multiple marriages, I am however against employees of an administrative agency operating without authority and aiding and abbetting in constitutional seizures for profit.

"separation of church and state"?????

in Utah? AH-HA HA HAAAAAAAAA

thats funny!

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. Very few of you mention the horror these children suffer while you conduct your petty vendetta. Texas will be scorned forever. You will never live down this affront to humanity.

This is funny. i.e. to read the ill informed comments of those who have no idea whatsoever of what is going on in Texas. Nor what it means soon for them.

Polygamy illegal in Texas, and elsewhere? No it isn't if you understand. Linear polygamy is legal and not really that different. Just get a wife or husband one at a time. Same thing.

No body asks how many of those in Texas involved with this do not have a family, but love running them, i.e. the families of others. And destroying them.

The "goddess" religion takes down the weak and easy targets first. Separation of church and state in Texas or anywhere? Ha. Look at the goddess over the statehouse of Texas. She is everywhere, and her teaching is to destroy the family, all families.

I am suprised the state didn't do the FLDS property what the fed's did to the Branch Davidian complex
Would have been easier for the tanks to roll in and burn it down, then there are very few left willing to testify. The state of texas Attorney General must be related to the Duke university A.G. Nifong, just arrest them and we will make the case later.
Seems to be the nature of all our government agencies, we will do what we want when we want, nobody will be held responsible.