There is much more to the story, the real important details are kept away from the public. Does anyone remember the Duke lacrosse team accusations? the tactics are the same here. they are conducting an obviously wrong prosecution, (or persecution) let's hope these kids are kept safe and will be restored to a peaceful life.

Many times after they make a service plan and the parents meet the requirements, CPS keeps changing the plans making it impossible for the families to meet them. At least that is how CPS in Texas operates, never worked with any families in Utah.

After the family has not met the impossible to meet plans for one year, CPS will claim the one year mark and move to terminate parental rights and claim the child is no longer bonded to their family but bonded to the foster parents.

This is typical CPS procedure. The FLDS children experienced sexual abuse which is typical for some of the children in CPS custody, but they experienced it for a different reason than the other children in CPS custody. These kids experienced abuse because the Jeffs' crew turned the FLDS into a cult-like entity. Therefore, the mothers and/or fathers would have to start therapy in order to regain custody of their children. They will have to show that they are able to support their children. They may have to get a GED. And, they may have to complete jail time. They would probably have to permanently leave the compound and renounce polygamy. There are other options, but they are too messy for CPS. If the FLDS renounced polygamy just like the LDS and if the FLDS ditched Jeffs and Jessop, it is possible they could return to the compound. Multiple wives would have to disperse. The Tom Green case allowed the wives to live in a fourplex. Although they were under the same roof, they were in separate homes. In this case, three wives could live in three different buildings that each housed two more non-related wives. I'm eager to seeTHEservicePLANS.

Finally, the FLDS will have to start being honest about their identities. When the hearings take place, the FLDS parents won't be able to petition the court to have a particular child returned to a GROUP of parents. They'll have to identify specific child/parent relationships if they want to get their children back.

For their sake, I hope they at least know the real father and mother of each child. If a child has been "adopted" by non-biological parents, let's hope they have some legal proof of the adoption.

Unfortunately, I think we'll find that this is one big happy family, afterall, and that the FLDS children are traded from family to family like so much chattel.

ACLU has issued a statement, basically finding many faults in the entire CPS fiasco.
These famlies will win, and the texas cps witchunters will finally be reigned in and seen for what they are.

The parents will need to keep diaries of all their encounters with CPS and their demands. If at all possible they should have their lawyers present. What is happening now will not look good ten years down the line when there is a regime change. As for returning to the compound, it may be the fact that someone powerful wanted the ranch which is the root of the whole mess. The state will be humiliated in the long run because they have not dealt with the FDLS children in a just manner.

On April 30, attorneys for 38 FLDS women filed an appeal with the 3rd Court of Appeals.

Texas Department of Family and Protective Services was expected to respond by May 2.

There's not a whisper of recent coverage of this suit on Google News.

Did DFPS respond?

What did they say?

What is the status of the suit?

"These famlies will win, and the texas cps witchunters will finally be reigned in and seen for what they are."

The ACLU statement amounted to little more than a wait and see position. The ACLU, like most of us, are waiting to see whether CPS can produce evidence to prove that the FLDS were indeed sexually abusing there children through forced underage marriages.

Texas CPS believe they are our parents. They are spanking these children in their custody. Wow, I thought they were accusing their parents of abuse. Please write or call your elected officials to stop this clear violation of constitutional rights. My opinion is that Texas CPS is going to build a similar case against the FLDS to the McMartin Preschool Case. Kids in jail will say anything if they are told they will be reunited with their parents. Modesto, Ca

This situations seems so hopeless for the children. The CPS is requiring classes for homemaking? I think they threw that in to make the FLDS look less than capable of taking care of the children. What I have seen the houses were clean and the children well taken care off. I hope the rest of the US gets together to fight for the rights of these children and moms.

So what do you do with these children? Divvy them out to be converted by the different churches. "Let's see, this group will be come Baptist. This group will be Luthern. This girl will make a good nun..."

There is a God in the Heavens who is the Judge. Parents are given the responsibility to look after their children, and will be judged accordingly. These children remind me of my own children. They are will taken care of. They are nursed rather than bottle fed. Junk food is not a part of their lives. These children need to go back to their parents. If there is something wrong with with the parent's lifestyle, then changes can be negotiated. Why send in the 'army' to 'jail' all the children for their own good?

By the way, the 'correct' lifestyle is skin tight jeans and half the breast peaking out. The 'corrent' lifestyle says "look but don't touch". What is wrong with a modest lifestyle and loose clothing that cover a person?

The truth of the matter, is that the self-rightous Texans do not want this group in Texas, and are doing everything possible to expel them.

CPS will be able to provide enough evidence of underage marriages to show that their actions were justified. A few FLDS men will be charged. The families directly involved will have their children returned, but they will be put on probation and will have to provide proof of having a valid marriage license before a marriage involving any of their minor children is allowed to be performed. The FLDS families who have not been directly involved with forced underaged marriages will have their children returned to them with no restrictions.

I see a lot of people here in a rush to judge and asserting things as facts that have not been established as facts. There's no way anybody who isn't close to the process could know whether there was sufficient legal reason to take the FLDS children or to what extent. But in this day of bloviating talking heads on tv and the Internet, I guess ignorance can't be expected to stop people from forming and expressing opinions. :/

If I read this story correctly, these children have been placed in group facilities, not individual foster homes where they could get some sort of individual attention. Group homes have "house parents" sometimes, but other times, just employees who take care of groups of children. None of them have ANY familial type connection with the children. How is this better than being in a family--even a "group" type family? Many of the children the FLDS kids will be placed with come from much more abusive, and even criminal, family backgrounds. I don't think that's the "real world" I'd want my kids dropped into. I don't see that the kids are going to be better off than they were.

Can we not admit that the Texas authorities have made critical mistakes in handling this case? And that the FLDS have also? There is no need for all the insults and hatred in posts. If the children's welfare is our top concern, there is no reason we can't expect accountability from BOTH the parties in this horrible mess.

I think the State of Texas did the right thing. It may seem overwhelming now, but compared to the very real reality of this kind of life waiting for the girls of this sect and the liklihood of the young boys being thrown out--this is better all the way around. I am not saying that this kind of change isn't going to have a few hitches along the way, there hasn't been a raid on a FLDS compound in many years, but the fact that that kind of life has been allowed to flourish unchecked is plain wrong.

As Dr Phil told Larry King, when these babies remain with CPS they will end up in prison or on the street as has happened in the past with children left to their care.
I would recomend reading information on the Waco raid(1993). They have had the hearings, investigations ect. They all seems to have one voice "it was a mistake and should never have happened" another quote "we should make sure this never happens again" Janet Reno (I think) "The thing we learn from history is that we don't learn from history"
Even Clinton said "I made a big mistake" in authorizing the raid. He did it after being preasured by the FBI I think.

After their brief exposure to the real world, it will take months if not years for all of the FLDS children to be re-indoctrinated into becoming the mindless sheep that they are supposed to be.

Some of them may even develop thoughts and desires of their own and may decide not to return to the FLDS lifestyle.

Maybe the FLDS are being held to a higher standard.
They get married.
They don't have children out of wedlock.
They don't watch television.
They have stay at home moms.
They have healthy meals.
They dress modestly.
They have clean homes.
This is all so UNAMERICAN. This had to be stoped.

I'm calling my congressman, how about you?
We need action instead of all this talk.

I have a novel idea. Why not give the kids back and mind their own business. All of this is just a BS idea of "Big Brother". Looking at a new type of government is sure looking better and better.

Those of you that feel the children should go back to the ranch - I have a question...

These mothers are normally confined to the ranch. The children (especially the girls) are totally confined to the ranch. They are told daily that everything and everyone outside the gates are evil and if they leave they will go to hell. They are told this from the day they are born by people that they trust.

Now we all know there is bad in the world, but I'm sure there's some behind their gates as well. They teach the children that persons of color have no soul and other crazy (and wrong) things. So the children grow up believing all of this. They believe leaving the compound will lead to damnation. So they will never get a good education, never have an opportunity to make their mark in the world (some could do great things out there), never experience LIFE outside the compound.

Question: Is this fair for the children, or is it abuse? Should parents be allowed to confine their children and imbed concepts that so restrictive and outlandish that the child will probably never have a normal life?

Oh, yeah. I'm going with everything the aclu says. What a bunch of losers!!

Aint'it awful aint'it awful enough already. What do we tell our legislators to do about monitoring these types of groups? How can we approach this situation in order to protect children number one in the future, right of individuals children and adults in the future? There are three thousand cults in this country. If these folks leave others may come. You lawyers out there, readers of the law, are there statues already in existence which we could dust off and implement more stingently? Let's put our minds to finding a solution together. A lot of you posters are very mindful and thoughtful. However most sound powerless. You're not. You have the power of the vote. Everything in government flows from the law. Let's make it work for us.

I just wonder why these children cannot be placed with extended family members who are not members of the FLDS. I imagine there are tons of them.

Good list, and most of the FLDS are good and decent people, but you left a few of Warren Jeffs' favorite items off the list.
They sexually abuse forced child brides.
They kick young boys out of their community.
They re-assign wives and children to other husbands.
This is all so UNAMERICAN that this must be stopped.

These young children are being forced to have sex and get married long before they are legally allowed to or emotionally prepared to. They are being continually "raped" by older men in their compound. How is it ok for these children to remain in that environment? Legal age for consentual sex is 17 in most states. This group should be held to the standard that the rest of our nation is.
Bottom line... CPS is only trying to protect these children. Outsiders cannot claim to think they could handle it better if they have no idea how the system works. Children should not be brainwashed, raped, or married by 14 years old.

Their world is a cult, they do not make up they their minds, they eat when told, they stay in one place, they marry who they are told too. I read that the average 15 year old on the ranch has the critical thinking on the avrage American 6 year old!!! These girls are having children when they should be playing soccer or going to the movies. Not forced to "marry" and be raped by a main 2 to 3 times her age. No child should ever go back there. And as for their parents, they will need YEARS of help to be able to function in the real world and protect their children. The world is real, running away doesn't solve anything. Every culture has its own problems. Breaking the law has nothing to do with religion. If Texas losses this case and send those children back, it will be the sadest day in American history.

What ever the authorities do it had better be for the best interest of the children. The children do not need to grow up to be made sex slaves for older men. They need to observe this cult closely if any of those kids are allowed to go back to the compound.

Don't you people go on with how these people are being oppressed because they are different-No one is bothering the Amish and they are different.

I agree with the fact that the children who grow up on the ranch are afraid to leave because of what they are told about the outside. They are also not prepared to leave because most probably have no birth certificates to even get an identification card. You can't get a place to rent, a hotel, an education or a job without an identification card. They also have been raised to think that outsiders are evil and that brown skinned people are under some kind of curse.

The girls are raised to be very submissive to the men and that their eternal life depends on it. So they are vulnerable to be sexually exploited at the 'husbands' desire. What about their desires? How could they leave if they are unhappy when they wouldn't be supported to leave (where would they get money?) and would they be let back in to visit family when they chose?

This does not sound like freedom of choice. It doesn't sound American. Where is the mind freedom?

YES!!! I like the idea to call our congressman. These children ARE being abused BY THE CPS!!! The reason the broken bones issue came out is because a CPS officer broke a child's arm while ripping her away from her mother---THIS IS AMERICA!!! Who checks on the CPS so they do not make the children little drug-ies before they dump them into society. Please write to your congressmen-if one American's rights are trampled, it will be all rights before long.

You have bought into all the false reports of child rape, forced marriages, and intentual slavery. Their apostates have done a good job of clouding the truth. There may have been a couple of incidents but the facts from some of the Lost Boys was they left on their own because they did not obey the rules the church had. (Alcohol, Very high Moral Standards etc.) The women have said that nobody was forced into any marriage. The "continually raped" comment has turned out to be a HOAX by someone with an ax to grind.

People will do well to heed Lilathes story posted @ 7.16 am.

I have not bought into anything. The facts are these; If a girl is married at 14 years old, it is forced. Once she is married and continues to have sex as a minor, that is continual rape. Once they are old enough to be woman, by all means, they have the right to marry and have sex with their husbands. Until they are legal adults- every practice their parents are making them be a part of is illegal and is defined as rape. Regardless of the laws, they are emotionally abused. I have two women friends, who finally found the strength to leave this faith and we're only allowed to take 4 daughters out of 10. The lifestyle they preach, and force upon their children, is brainwashing. These women have story upon story that show how abusive this cult is to their children, boys and girls. Emotional and mental abuse is just as damaging, if not more, as physical abuse.

FYI: More than 80% of children removed from there homes in Texas are reunified with their families, not adopted. Do a little research before posting.

It's me - "childs rights" poster above.

You seem to think all these children should go back to their parents.. How about you answer my questions above? You think the CPS is wrong and the approach is wrong. What do you suggest, or do you think all is well within the FLDS compound and the children should be returned?

They obviously live in a communal society (where many parents contribute in various ways to the family and the raising of the kids). For example, some of the mothers work, while other mothers care for the infants and others take care of the eduction needs, others cook, etc. (The proverbial "Village" Hillary Clinton talked about).

So just identifying who the "birth parent" is, doesn't resolve all the issues. It's more complex than that.

Guns won't solve it. Courts won't solve it. Jails won't solve it. Until you change their hearts the cycle won't change. This Raid is the WRONG approach.

Going in there with a calm approach would have been better than running in with guns and tanks and taking all the kids and telling the parents "They are ours now", insinuating they will never see them again. This was not the best approach.

I only hope that The CPS will finally discover a sense of humanity and reunite these families.

"They obviously live in a communal society (where many parents contribute in various ways to the family and the raising of the kids)."

Texas is not going to recognize more than one father and one mother for each child just because the FLDS have chosen to practice polygamy.

The FLDS will just complicate things for themselves if they try to do that.

Could you please provide some source for the claim you posted that "a CPS officer broke a child's arm while ripping her away from her mother".

thanks

Calling will not hurt, but probably will not do any good either. Like your Congressman cares what you think and will stick his face in this mess for you.

You might also want to google "captive flds children" and find the page FLDS parents set up. See what evidence they posted, and if you are still convinced they have some point, there is a Donate page available for you to make a real contribution. Money talks. These folks will need a lot of little pennies to fight the CPS.

I don't care much for polygamy one way or another, and if there is abuse, well go investigate and bring on some charges. This business of "no one is charged with anything, you can all go home, but we will keep your children in group homes we decide are good enough for them" is a nightmare I think any awake parent can relate to. Any of you oddballs out there, homeschoolers, vegetarians, vegans, nudists, fundamentalist or Orthodox this or that, better take notice. These people are already figting your battle. You can stand behind them and demand that their rights be respected. Or not. You have the choice, they don't.

How can CPS justify keeping 102 children under the age of 2?

Why would CPS use any sense of humanity ? They are 9-5 bureaucrats, just doing their jobs, and following their procedures. They love to take the path of least resistance, going after nice people who do not keep pit bulls on premises and do not resist them. Makes it much easier to get home in time for dinner. Why stray from the path procedures prescribe and act out of "sense of humanity" ? No one was denied promotion for following procedures to the letter, even if it ends in a disaster for the kids. But if you try to apply a sense of humanity and something goes amiss, you are in a deep end. So I don't think I woudl count on this too much. They will have to be fought or at elast threatened with a bad legal fight, so it does not pay for them to persist.

Many areas in the "inner cities" have a "culture that promotes abuse of children" (to use the words of Angie Voss of Texas CPS) - drug use, crime, underage sex, sexual assault, prostitution, and gang violence. This is very well documented with hard evidence, Dept of Justice statistics, crime statistics, and academic research studies in respected peer-reviewed journals - as opposed to the gossip and innuendo from Nancy Grace and other in the main stream media and popular books that passes for evidence against the FLDS in this particular case. According to one article, there are even "2nd generation gang members" now - in other words, parents teaching their children to join gangs. When are the authorities going to go into the inner cities with their tanks and guns and rescue all those children?? Surely very young children, babies even, should be removed from such an environment to prevent exposure to such heinous activity where they might in the future become victims or perpetrators. Surely we can all agree they would be so much better off growing up with nice middle-class families in suburbia. Surely those children have a right to grow up in a better environment. Don't they?

To: Emma | 9:59 a.m. May 8, 2008

What ever happened to:

We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

It is very easy for people to point the finger and blame CPS for everything. Working child welfare is one of the hardest jobs in teh nation, most people won't go near and and will often proclaim, "I couln't do that!" This is a situation that is above and beyond anything previously handled. Reality is, if the parents didn't screw up in some way the children would not have come in to care. Yay for Texas and a one year before freeing the children, that is much better than a child languishing in the system. Parents do have an opportunity to get their kids back, but they have to acknowledge why they were removed. My support goes to all of theose child welfare workers, foster parents, lawyers, adn judges having to clean up this mess. In particular to the workers who already have a full caseload and are now inundated with a large group of children with special needs. Their jobs are not easy ones and many people are quick to judge and blame CPS but not acknowledge the responsibilities of the parents to protect their children from harm. If you want to blame someone, remember the parents.

I work child welfare and I do not know a single one who only works 9-5. We start as early as six, some get to go home at 8 some work at 2 am and everyone in general thinks we are lazy paper pushers. Next time please stop to think about everything that goes into trying to reuinte parents with their children, teh services, the transportation, the therapy, behavioral issues, the crisis phone calls, the responsibility of being legal guardian to 20 children. A child welfare worker is responsible to the stae, the court, the judge, the lawyers, the parents, the foster parents, the CASA, and most importantly the kids. I wish I only worked 9-5 and didn't have the responsibility of manageing 20 little lives.

Amen! It is fact beyond dispute that any given inner city hospital sees frequent 12-13 year old girls giving birth.

Interesting note: anybody here what happened to the "lost" boys that Shurtleff took in? I hear they were too much to handle. Seems most of the "lost" boys were on the outs for being deviant and immoral.

"When are the authorities going to go into the inner cities with their tanks and guns and rescue all those children??"

When are you going to stop trying to justify the FLDS breaking the law because other people are also breaking the law?

If the FLDS have been raping children using "religious beliefs" as their cover, they're breaking the law, period.

It's irrelevant who else is breaking the law.

"Working child welfare is one of the hardest jobs in teh nation".

Ah, try mining or picking strawberries in the field.

"Reality is, if the parents didn't screw up in some way the children would not have come in to care."

Whoa, supporter. With that attitude, why would we even need courts ? CPS says so, therefore parents must be guilty of something ? That seems to be at the root of this whole mess. Where is the presumption of innocence ?

"Parents do have an opportunity to get their kids back, but they have to acknowledge why they were removed."

You know, this sounds so familiar. I grew up in a Communist regime (funny for me to be lecturing you on liberties, I know). It was exactly the way you propose. The State and Its Officials were always presumed right and always acting out of the purest intentions, usually a concern for The Welfare Of The People. There was this thing called "self-criticism" and was done in public in Party meetings. That about your idea of the ceremony of "acknowledgement" ? Where do we find a suitable Party Meeting for this to take place ?

Right, I owe you an apology for painting with such a broad brush. You are of course right that this is not easy, and there are very difficult case - and your job is a necessary one. And of course there are all sorts of people working this job.

I wonder if you will agree, as an insider, that actions of the CPS in this case are at best questionable. Looking at this from the outside, it seems that little effort was spared in trying to find an alternative solution that would actually try to put kids' welfare first. It seems like people just wanted to get it out of their way, and go back to their routine.

I also have to say that as a homeschooling parent I'm all too aware of the horror that can ensue when CPS gets inside your life. And it does not take much, a malicious phone call, and you are on the defensive, and it is up to you to prove you are not a monster. Why do you think all homeschool families I know pay into the Home School Legal Defense Association fund ? To defend from car thefts ?