The World Health Organization ranks U.S. healthcare as 37th in the world. Number one is France. Contrary to the disinformation you have been fed, you don't have long waits for treatment there, in many circumstances U.S. patients have longer waits. My wife hurt her back and it took two months to get an appointment with a neurologist.

has never been turned away because your insurance isn't "good enough". My family has several times. 37th is too high.

Here we go again. Writers will spew unsubstantiated arguments for and against Socialized medicine. While I don't have all the answers I have lived in the upper midwest and treated amny Canadiens who had crossed the border to pay cash for joint replacement surgery. Why? Because end stage joint disease hurts. You can sleep and you can't walk. Its a miserable existence. You might wait a few weeks for surgery in the US but in Canada you get in line and wait times can be years. The Canadian physicians get paid for the days work not per case. Therefore, there is less incentive to work harder.

You know, I always hear how Canada's "socialized" health care is inferior to ours because people have to wait long periods of time to get service. I have one question: Do you think that people without health care care that they have to wait a bit to be seen? Think about this, really.

You can get treatment here....no payment schedule required.

America does not have the best health care. I have insurance but pretty soon I still have to budget if I can afford the doctor or the meds mmmmm I know of a person only recently 2007 died because he did not have insurance is this great country. He worked three jobs but none paid enough or offered health care benefits -- others are also dying because they don't have insurance or the insurance is cancelling them YEP AMERICA is number one in human rights NOT

The WHO stats are phony, they include auto accidents, which the US leads the world in, but what does that have to do with health care?

"U.S. health care the best"

Yes it is, ... For those that can afford it.

Now its time to make it the best in the world for EVERY citizen.

We can do better than Canada. We have an opportunity to take the best from all the other countries and learn from their mistakes. Health care should not be some commodity to be traded. We pay more and get worse care than all the other developed countries. Change it now, cut out all the middlemen.

I was just thinking, the US healthcare was ranked 37th by the World Health Organization. Our system is being judged by a group of people that only know socialized medicine.

If you read their criteria for judging the healthcare, only a small portion of the criteria actually has anything to do with the care given. Most of it is based on out of pocket expense and what people thought of the system.

Since very little of the rating has to do with actual health or the care given once administered, I don't believe that we have the 37th best healthcare in the world.

I lived in France 2 years as a missionary. Not only were doctors and dentists readily available, they were very professional and even used advance techniques you can't get here. Here I can't get in to see the doc for 3 months, I sit for hours in the waiting room catching other people's diseases, and when I do get in the doctor can't see me. I see a nurse practitioner who doesn't know what she's doing. Give me France.

Whether the US is 1st or 37th is not the point, the point is ... Can we do better?

And the answer is, Yes we can, we can expand what we have so that everyone is covered.

If we can go to the moon, we can do this in such a way that every citizen gets decent health care. Doing this may require efficiency / quality experts to examine our system and make recommendations.

No doubt there are inefficiencies that can be rooted out of the system, saving us all money. We are the USA, we can do this. We are a country of vision and have proven that we can do the seemingly impossible better, if we only will.

America can do better. It has to do better. It shouldn't be so incredibly difficult and expensive to get insurance. Our son has diabetes, so no one wants to cover him with any type of a reasonable rate.

In America, we need to insure more than "the healthy and the wealthy."

U S hospitals accidently kill 120,000 patients per year. If this is the best, other systems must be truly horrific.

The number 1 cause for personal bankruptcy in the US stems from a personal healthcare crisis. My deductibles have risen 600% over the last 5 years. I have had insurance not willing to pay for doctor prescribed routine procedures.
20% of Americans are uninsured. Who do these socialized medicine scare mongers think is paying for them? While I dont think that socialized medicine is the only path. We do need a definate overhaul of the system where everyone has equal access to treatment.

If the U.S. had the French system, we'd have lower infant mortality, higher life expectancy, shorter wait times, no one would ever become uninsured, and every person in America would be $3,000 richer (on average). Why Americans continue to support an inferior healthcare system is a mystery to me.

And the reference to Michael Moore is typical conservative sleight of hand: try to get people to focus on the messenger (Michael Moore, Al Gore) and not the actual issue. It doesn't matter what Michael Moore thinks or does. The U.S. still spends more on healthcare and gets less for our money than almost every other industrialized country.

If you agree its time for a change, then vote for canidate(s) that agree with you. You can't just wish, you need to vote.

Why do the people who proclaim the greatness of the US medical system always compare the US system to Canada? This is not a US-Canada issue! The US is 37th in the world, people. 37th! Who says that people that want a better system want to mimic the Candian system. If France is number one, then give me France. They are doing something right!

And to the poster who said that the WHO numbers can't be trusted (yougofirst), I just have to laugh, because that is such a typically American response. If the carefully gathered numbers disagree with what you feel, then just don't believe them. That makes sense...

Our healthcare system is near the bottom of industrialized countries by any measure. One poster suggested that car accidents skew our numbers. That is ridiculous. Infant mortality, beta blocker administration and disease management statistics, to name only a few, have nothing to do with car accidents.

Brent James, a highly regarded physician/executive at IHC, coauthored an Institute of Medicine report called To Err is Human. The report stated that 48,000-98,000 people are killed in hospitals alone by avoidable medical errors. Add in outpatient service delivery, nursing homes etc. and the number will go up.

The truth is, and is one of the reasons healthcare does not function as a true market, we don't have any idea what quality of care we receive.

Read the RAND experiment to understand how our healthcare system is today. Blame the US Goverment for that! Prior to the institution of Medicare/Medicaid, healthcare was consumer driven. It is no long the case today. That's why prices skyrocket.

The University of Alberta published a report not long ago comparing the costs of prescription drugs of American system and Canadian Systm. Guess what? American system was cheaper!

People will spew opinions without regard to the facts. Do a little reasearch to educate yourself on this issue. I'm so sick of hearing that healthcare is a "right." Article 1, section 8 of the Constitution lays out the grounds for "general welfare." For the socialized med fans, quit spinning smoke and mirrors arounrd.

Incidently, each State can do socialized mediction but not the Federal Government. This is why Massechussetes coudl do such. For the Federal government to do so, it would (in my understanding) take a Constitutional amendment to include healthcare as a coverage under the "general welfare" clause. That, my friends, takes Two-Thirds vote of States to pass. Unlikely to happen.

To "Where is America's Can do spirit | 9:36 a.m." the problem with making everybody equal when it comes to healthcare is that everybody suffers or else you end up with 2 health care systems. In countries where there is socialized medicine, you have the government provided healthcare, which is substandard, and the private practice. The people that can afford the private practice have much better care. Just look at the movie Sicko, it was filmed at Cuba's hospital for the politicians and upperclass people. Is that what we want?

Also, while you did not have insurance, it sounds like you were able to pay for the diabetic supplies that you needed.

I do agree that the cost needs to be reigned in, but it is not a simple solution. If you understand why costs are high, there are quite a few factors that have made it that way. This isn't a nightime drama where everything is taken care of in an hour, and the solution is easy to understand.

Can you say Ditto heads?

You want good health care? Keep the government out.

The reason the cost is so outrageous is because the govt. has already dipped its fingers in it through laws and regulations. And let's not forget the trial lawyers who have made millions with their lawsuits (John Edwards anyone?)

A 'yes' to nationalized healthcare is a 'yes' to a substantial increase in taxes, decrease in quality, long lines, more deaths, lack of choice, and inefficiency. Look at Europe and Canada folks. Despite what some of these people claim, they are among the worst in the world (i.e. average wait for an MRI in Canada: 12 weeks; U.S.: 1 week)

I think 'yougofirst' is on to something.....

Healthcare is not a human right. By declaring it so, you're saying that one has a right to the services of the health-care provider. In effect, this means you are claiming a 'right' to a portion of that person's life.

I for one don't want the govt making my medical decisions. One step closer to socialism is one step closer to communism.

Also? I don't see how France can claim the best health care. The heat wave of 2003 killed at least 15,000 people unnecessarily due to lack of available and quality care.

"We can do socialism better than the others because we have smarter elites than they do"

@crich- You are wrong. YOu need to account for the fact that the French culture and way of life is VERY DIFFERENT than from America. America has the "fast food" lifestyle which is generally not the case in any Western Europe country. You've got the "Super Size Me" and sue McD's because I'm fat mentality. Can't really compare here.

Many of the systems in Europe pay as much as 50% in taxes to cover socialized medicare. The UK is going Bankrupt. The Swedes used to be the best in the world, up until about 20 years ago and now are also headed for banckruptcy. People just do not understand the principle of consumer-driven policy which is what America had BEFORE Medicare came along. That destroyed it and created the problems we have. Educate yoruselves on this very issue. Read the RAND experiement.

This surmizes the conservatives position on just about everything.

The thought process goes, "I know our system sucks, but I haven't been too badly affected yet therefore don't change anything." If you haven't had to file bankruptcy yet due to stagering medical costs, haven't been denied care because you are uninsured, the I guess you can "live" with our current system.

Heaven forbid we should try to create a better system for all, I am not willing to risk anything. Go King George, go Rush, go Hannity, keep the status quo, I am sure I'll be dead before the country goes bankrupt. Well I hope so anyway cause I know I am going to heaven, just like all us right wingers.

YouGoFirst: you said "Our system is being judged by a group of people that only know socialized medicine."

Do you really mean to imply that there is not a single American in the WHO helping to perform the analysis? Must have only had French people if it came out #1.

I think you may be on to something though, how many Americans complain of the great bogeyman "Socialized Medicine" but have absoultely no experience in dealing with a government run healthcare system.

So, using your logic, that only people who have used a system can truly evaluate it's effectiveness, tell me again how bad government run healthcare with the limitation being your own personal experience.

So, do you want to limit your criticism and continue to reject the WHO analysis, or could they actually be experts trained to do a technical analysis of healthcare systems on a broadbased technical basis.

Please be consistent.

To "GWB | 12:34 p.m." waht is meant by what I said is that the people from the WHO have devised a system of rating healthcare for a country based on many socialistic/human factors.

If you really want to understand the system, look at number of doctors per capita, average lifespan, infant mortality AND fertility rates, and actual health of the nation, not "Was the last Dr. you saw nice."

Healthcare comes down to two basic things. Are you going to make sure you and your family are healthy, or do you want the government to do that for you? It all comes back to personal responsibility. If people took more personal responsibility for themselves the cost could be lowered.

YouGoFirst: I'll thake that as an admission that you have no PERSONAL experience with government run healthcare in another country.

I will also assume that you just use the talking points of what others say about government run healthcare to make up your mind rather than doing your own research.

With your last paragraph, it begs the question as to whether you actually have any insurance?

If you so firmly believe that you can lower the cost by taking personal responsibility, why are you pooling your medical expensews with others to mitigate your personsl financial risk by having insurance?

Take responsibility for yourself. If you don't have health insurance its your fault. You should have picked a better job with better benefits, if you had a good job and got laid off cause your job was downsized to India, well you should have worked harder for less money and that wouldn't have happened
.
If you filed bakruptcy because of medical bills, you should have planned ahead and told your wife and kids to not get cancer because that kind of luxury is not in the family budget.

Our healthcare system is the best, the only way it could get any better is if it cost more and served less people, that way I wouldn't have to wait more the 5 minutes to get my critical hangnail fixed.

The title of your post implies that you think healthcare acts as a true market. Healthcare does not behave as a true market. Here is why: providers don't compete on price, quality or service characteristics and patients are shielded from the true costs of healthcare because of insurance. All of those things and many more mean that healthcare does not behave as a true market. The free market can't fix something that it can't influence.

We all pay for the uninsured right now. Due to federal legislation named EMTALA, no one in need can be turned away from an emergency room. Instead of receiving preventive care, that is very cheap, the uninsured enter the healthcare system at the most expensive point with very expensive problems.

Long story short overall healthcare costs go down if all people have access to healthcare.

To "GWB | 1:07 p.m." I do have personal experience with the health care system in Argentina. They have socialized medicine. The public hospitals are scary and not very clean. The doctors are not the best either. However, if you go to a private clinic, the place is clean and nice, not totally modern, but much better than what is provided by the government.

I do have insurance, and have been without insurance for a time. I take the financial risk of pooling my insurance with others because it benefits me. Insurance is like gambling, I bet my monthly premium (or my money along with the group's) against the insurance company that I will use up just as much if not more money in healthcare as I pay into the pool. The only unfortunate side is that typically the insurance company wins. However, having health insurance also buys peace of mind by not having to worry about the "what if".

If the uninsured payed or arranged for a payment program, health care costs could go down because hospitals and doctors would not have to charge more overhead to handle free/discounted care.

Argentina is hardly a good comparator for what government run healthcare is like in an advanced country. Argentina is not like Germany, France, Sweden, Japan or other industrialized countries.

The same can be said of public hospitals in Chicago or any other major city with the public hospitals being scary, overworked and not having the best doctors. The Private hospitals in major cities are also better with better docs, cleaner environment, and latest diagnostic equipment.

With regard to the uninsured working out payment plans, that doesn't do much good when an unisured mother with problems in the unborn child pile up a couple of million in bills to make sure that her baby has a chance of living. Then when she leaves and returns to he job as a clerk at McDonalds at just above minimum wage, what payment plan covers that bill that is something she can afford?

This is precisely why medical issues account for the majority of bankruptcy filings in the US.

Actually the biggest reason that healthcare is so expensive in this country IS INSURANCE COMPANIES.
These companies are in business to make money. Period. If they don't they go OUT OF BUSINESS. They are a middleman in the transaction between patient and healthcare provider.
They make money by charging a large group of people more than that same group will spend on healthcare. Pretty simple. And totally unnecessary.
Eliminate the healthcare insurance industry. Have everyone pay their "premiums" to the government "taxes", which doesn't need to turn a profit to stay in business and costs go down.
Wow how simple could it really be if people would just wake up.

By free market, I'm suggesting that government stay out. I would like to CHOOSE which health care is best for me; not have the govt dictate.

Sure we have a middleman (insurance), but they have to compete and negotiate with providers, and vice versa.

Costs go up if everyone is insured by the govt. If people perceive something as free, they consume more. Health care is finite; there are only so many doctors, so many hospitals. If people overconsume a good, it drives up the price. (basic economics)

She should have told her unborn child to be nice and healthy, cause she can't afford it if he's sick. After all she got pregnant she should take complete financial responsibility for that child.

Healthcare bankruptcies are just another example of why King George was right to make it more difficult to file bankruptcy in this country. If people would just stop getting sick if they can't afford it then everything would just get better.

To "GWB | 2:27 p.m" you ask what medical plan covers the poor person, working the counter at McDonalds? It is called Medicare/Medicaid and probably a state CHIP program to cover the child after that.

You can't use the poorest people as an example of why we need universal healthcare. We already are paying for their healthcare.

To "Driving up costs for everyone | 2:34 p.m." from what I have seen, insurance companies actually help to lower the cost. By offering group policies, they are able to base the cost to insure the group on the number of people. For example, to insure my family, by myself at the same coverage level I currently have, it would cost $1000/month. With my employer provided healthcare, it costs a total of $700/month for my family. So, it actually costs less. Granted, if I was in a group with a lot of unhealthy people, it could cost a lot more.

Problem Solve Let all stop going to the doctor and stop getting our Children Vaccinations and the time I have the FLU I will go out about.

@ free market 2:47 PM...
You'd like to CHOOSE which healthcare is best for you, and not have the government dictate? I want to work where you do, because I don't know ONE employer who gives out a grab bag of different providers to its employees to "choose" from. Standard conservative thought...Boo government until you actually need it.

You state "Costs go up if everyone is insured by the gov't. If people perceive something as free they consume more..." Do you really believe there are people out there who just can't wait to get sick if only they didn't have to pay for it???

We have dozens of examples from EVERY other industrialized country in the world PROVING that in a government insured system, COSTS GO DOWN.
Our system is the anomaly, we have the most expensive system by nearly 2 times the second most expensive (Switzerland), yet we rank number 37 in health of our population.

To You Go: you still ignored the whole fact that insurance companies are an unecessary middleman. The example you use of an insurance co. negotiating a better price ignores that the government does the exact same thing only better. The VA negotiates prices for all their healthcare supplies and pays the LOWEST prices of any hospital chain in the country. Medicare negotiates with hospitals and pays the lowest reinbursement rates in the country, in fact insurance companies use medicare reinbursement rates to set their own.

I, too am a recently returned missionary from France and Belgium. I was hospitalized there for 8 days. The healthcare was adequate but doesn't nearly compare to what we have here in the states. It took them a day to figure out that I had a foot infection. The price because I wasn't a citizen was just as expensive as you would find here in the states. So the quality isn't as good for the same price, therefore, I would call their healthcare system inferior. Someone has to pay the bill in socialism and frankly, after living there, it's their economy that takes the bill. No jobs, no growth, free-loaders living off the government, and the hard-working people there being taxed to death. I think socialism is noble in principle but there are too many people that take advantage of the system and destroy it.

So do you have any evidence to suggest that your care would have been any better here. I ask because I work in a hospital and I deal with many patients who get frustrated because, "I just wish they could figure out what is wrong." And this is before they get the bill. I am sure their frustrations go up exponentially once they get it.
Healthcare is far from an exact science. Hudreds of disease processes produce identical symptoms, initial diagnosis done correctly is a huge problem in this country as well.

I have talked with people who are from Europe and were forced to experience American healthcare, (they got sick while here), many of them were amazed at how uncoordinated our system was and just couldn't imagine dealing with a system where they didn't know who was going to pick up the tab. I have only talked with one who stated he thought our overall care was better, and even he wouldn't trade it for the uncertainty of how to pay.

To GeeBee: When the govt decides which doctor you see, which tests you get, and which procedures you'll receive...I don't think you'll be so happy. (This is what is known as CHOICE; and yes, my employer offers several plans).

To other: If you don't think free healthcare increases demand, tell that to the doctors who see Medicaid recipients for every sniffle, hangnail, and scrape. I know plenty who abuse the system and plenty who deal with the abuse. I think you have your facts wrong--there's proof that nationalized medicine drives up costs.