Deseret News | Catholics told not to give LDS parish data

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Catholics told not to give LDS parish data

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Re: Questions and others | 10:12 a.m. May 4, 2008

God's ordinances do not "hamper" his ability to save. He is all-powerful. However, God is a god of justice, not mercy alone. Without justice, there could not be any mercy. Baptism and other ordinances are commanded by God so that the law night be satisfied. While He is a god of mercy, we must also obey certain laws since he is also a god of justice. As far as this article is concerned and the several comments that have been made, I am not worried. While I respect those friends of other faiths and feel strongly that we should allow them to worship how, where or what they may, I also feel we should be allowed the same courtesy. This returns us to mercy and justice. If baptism is the gate to heaven then truly God is merciful to permit this saving ordinance to be performed for all of His children. Is it merciful to say that because one who has never known God or ever been able to even know His gospel and dies that they are eternally damned? Where is the mercy in that? God is in charge not man and everything will work out.

Wake up! | 10:15 a.m. May 4, 2008

All these hypothetical situations a few are putting forth about other churches unbaptizing LDS, etc., show the author is not aware that it wouldn't matter. You are trying to project your own fears on the LDS.
No LDS would raise a stink. The church wouldn't worry -- unless we believed those other churches actually had God's real authority. We'd actually just shrug and say thank-you for the good intentions.
Obviously the 10 who have posted such fears haven't read the 60+ comments that already made this point.
Or they haven't awakened yet this morning.

My View | 10:23 a.m. May 4, 2008

As a member of the LDS faith, I would not be offended by any member of any other faith or group performing a baptism in my behalf or my family's behalf while I am living or dead. I believe such action to be an act of love from them to me and an attempt to follow gospel referred to in the Bible. I also believe it is sanctioned by God only when both proper authority from God is used and when my personal choice affirms the action. It certainly doesn't rewrite my personal history or preference.

To those who are offended by the doctrine of baptism for the dead, I say you simply do not fully understand it. Find a friend who is a member of the LDS faith and ask them about it.

To those of us who are members of the LDS faith: hard words, pointing fingers, derision and outrage won't solve this challenge. Continuing kindness, reaching out, faith and prayer might avail much.

Comments continue below

RGG | 10:26 a.m. May 4, 2008

I'm not so sure LDS folks would be "outraged" if other churches or cults or sects were to perform their religious ceremonies for deceased LDS members.

We believe that an individual's agency prevails, whether here in in the afterlife. Just as we hope those who are baptized by proxy will accept that baptism, we also hope those who are already baptized would choose to stay baptized. However, the choice is theirs, and we certainly don't have any illusions that our desires for them will override their choices.

I am for the living | 10:27 a.m. May 4, 2008

Let's live and help the living and forget about the dead who are with God anyway...Do you believe that Mother Theresa is in limbo waiting for one of us to baptise her?
Instead copying records, let's go to Chad, Laos, Haiti and other places where there is so much suffering. They need our help now not when they are dead.

Morena | 10:31 a.m. May 4, 2008

Orion- My thoughts exactly. LDS would be offended in a big way if the reverse were going on. If a Protestant denomination took all the LDS names and did this re-baptism for the dead (which was mentioned in the bible but not practiced by the one mentioning it or encouaged)then the LDS would be offended. You all need to read your Bibles and seriously learn the scripture...who said it, did he practice it(NO) and then you would understand why this is so disrespectful. Congrats to the Catholics!!! Hope the Protestants follow suit!!!

Live & Let Live | 10:32 a.m. May 4, 2008

Sorry but I do NOT want my Catholic church records given out so I can be baptized as LDS. You can go on and on about the value of geneology records but TRY to understand and REFLECT about why many find these baptisms offensive. To brush it off as "well what does it matter if they don't believe in our doctrine anyway" is unacceptable. Come on if the Catholic or any other church began a massive undertaking to baptize all Mormoms you can bet an uproar would follow. How would YOU feel? And please realize that geneology does not hold an equal importance to all religions.

Let's Be Honest | 10:46 a.m. May 4, 2008

I am LDS, and I'm sure none of us would be overlly concerned to learn that the FLDS, Wickens, Scientologists or even more mainstream religions were performing certain religious ceremonies on behalf of our deceased LDS ancestors. BUT, would the Church willingly and knowingly hand over our records for that purpose? I highly, highly doubt that. And what if they even provided some additional, tangible service in return (like we are by putting names on microfilm)? I'm still not sure we would willingly hand over baptismal, blessing, birth, or temple sealing records for Wicken cermonies even if some other beneficial service were provided as a part of the process. And let's not fool ourselves, the Catholic Church looks upon the LDS Church as no less a cult than we do FLDS, Scientology or Wickens.

Also, as an active member of the Church, I have never quite understood the need to put in literally millions of hours for the work of the dead. A work that we acknowledge will never end up reaching all who have died. Only a tiny fraction actually. The rest will require heavenly intervention anyway. Therefore, perhaps those millions of hours could be put toward the LIVING?

Understand the doctrine | 10:45 a.m. May 4, 2008

The LDS doctrine of baptisms for the dead (mentioned in the New Testament) does not take away the right for anyone to choose. Just as in this life, anyone who is baptized (regardless of faith) have the choice to practice their religion or not. Our belief in baptizing for the dead simply gives them the opportunity to accept the ordinance or not. That's all. It doesn't force anyone to become a Mormon. We don't believe in forcing decisions at all, simply giving opportunities to choose.

Baptism by Proxy Doctrine | 10:48 a.m. May 4, 2008

For those of you unfamiliar with our doctrine: Baptism for the dead does not mean they are automatically saved, they have the option to accept or reject the ordinance. Christ was perfect and yet he was still baptized. This is a mandatory ordinance to enter the kingdom. We as mormons believe that we are doing a service in this baptism by proxy, giving those whom we are being baptized for a chance to accept or reject it. And as for doing things for the living, just google the words "mormons and katrina" or "mormons and san diego fires" and you'll see that it was the mormons who were there first for the living and wounded.

Concerned Researcher | 10:52 a.m. May 4, 2008

I was saddened to read this article this morning. I have absolutely enjoyed researching my ancestors, to see who and how they lived, and garner treasures of their lives that ultimately help me to understand my own makeup.

However sad this may be, let us take courage that the works of God will go forward, "boldly, nobly, and independently." Let us be patient, and faithful. The Lord will open doors that have heretofore been closed, soften the hearts of those who have concerns regarding these sacred ordinances. The words of Nephi come to mind in setbacks and trials such as these, as stated in 1 Nephi 3:7 (in the Book of Mormon), "I will go and do the things which the Lord has commanded, for I know the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, SAVE HE SHALL PREPARE A WAY FOR THEM TO ACCOMPLISH THE THING WHICH HE COMMANDETH THEM."
Let us always be found being kind in word, thought, and action to everyone around us, despite what they may think, do, or say about us or this work.

Adam | 10:54 a.m. May 4, 2008

I'm LDS and while I think the Catholic church's decision is unfortunate based on my beliefs I also recognize that it's important to respect their decision. We did the same thing for the Jews with regard to their wishes for Holocaust victims. Even if we disagree with the stance of the Catholic church on this issue, and can't see why they should be upset by something they don't believe in... I think the takeaway lesson is that by making this decision and the Jews making a similar request in the past, that obviously it DOES bother them. In this case we might be better off respecting their wishes. That's not to say a dialogue shouldn't begin to try to increase understanding on the topic, but expressions of outrage regarding this decision followed by dismissals of their feelings as invalid... that might not be the best approach.

None of your business | 10:54 a.m. May 4, 2008

It bothers people because it is meddling in the lives of people who either don't like having their dead relatives information involved in another religion or who just don't like mormons. It's really pretty simple. If other religions and their members don't what you nosing around in their business, then please have the decency and respect to butt out.

Clare | 10:57 a.m. May 4, 2008

I'm not happy at all with this situation. I just found out that on my birth side (I am adopted), there is a very strong possiblity that my ancestors were Jews who converted to Catholism. I want to know who they were. What happened? Were they coherced into it or did they join willing? Were they even Jewish? I'm dying of curiosity. These records are in Poland or what was once part of Russia. It's not fair that I can't find out about them. I can only hope that the church has gotten some on microfilm before this ridiculous statement by the Vatican. What are they afraid of?

Not Mormon | 10:58 a.m. May 4, 2008

Hey Mormons.......the catholic church doesn't want you. Get over it.

A European | 11:01 a.m. May 4, 2008

The family history centers in the ward buildings in Germany are frequented more by non LDS people than LDS people. They benefit from the work the LDS church has done by collecting records. They open the doors for all others to use the records.
Why doesn't the Catholic church do the same? Invites a lot more people to also look into their churches that are so scarcely visited even on Sundays now.

My View | 11:07 a.m. May 4, 2008

Additional Thought:

Cultural and idealogical differences are contributing to the bad feelings here. It seems that 1) those of the LDS faith don't completely understand the backgrounds, cultures, and beliefs informing the outrage felt by members of other faiths at the idea of baptism for the dead. And 2) members of other faiths don't completely understand the background, culture, and belief that make baptism for the dead by ANY religion unoffensive and important to members of the LDS faith.

Clearly, more non-confrontational dialog between all groups is needed--along with a bit of willing effort to understand by all groups.

uncannygunman | 11:08 a.m. May 4, 2008

As an atheist, I hereby unbaptize ALL souls, past, present, and future, of any faith whatsoever, so the poor dead folks can rest in peace. Problem solved and amen.

Bill | 11:08 a.m. May 4, 2008

I would think the Pope should re-consider this policy if only for selfish reasons. Just think what would happen if he were able to completely shut down genealogy work. All those LDS senior citizens who spend so much time and effort in this work would be unleashed on the world in search of the living!

I would think he would rather keep them engaged in what he perceives as a worthless effort.

Aguia | 11:09 a.m. May 4, 2008

It's a question of perspective.

LDS see baptisms for the dead as an act of love.
Others see it as disrespect.
Neither is really going to convince the other that their perspective is wrong.

I can understand the Catholics thought process on this restriction; even though i may not approve of it. I think it will hurt those who are researching their geneology for a multitude of reasons.

Whatever may happen now. We know that all eventually will have the opportunity to make their choices.

Non Mormon | 11:13 a.m. May 4, 2008

You LDS people just don't get it, do you. Your practices are offensive when it comes to baptism for the dead. These dead people can't speak for themselves now, but they made their choices in life. So regardless of your argument that you're just giving them the chance, or that family members want it, neither you nor their family members have the right to speak for them just because they can't speak for themselves. You're just another arrogant religion that starts with the belief that you're right, and everyone else is wrong, just like every other religion. You're not special. So take some advice. Lead the way by example. The example of minding your own business instead of trying to force your beliefs on others, or sell them to others through TV ads and going door to door like some insurance company.

Re:Aguia | 11:16 a.m. May 4, 2008

"We know that all eventually will have the opportunity to make their choices."

No.......you believe they will, but you don't know.

Deborah | 11:18 a.m. May 4, 2008

After reading the story three times and going over some of the comments posted here I've come to the conclusion that the story lacks depth and accuracy. In other words something is missing in the information provided by the news article which has triggered a defensive reaction from the mostly Mormons who have posted a commentary. I say let's research this issue further and, meanwhile, stop all the Catholic bashing.

AJ | 11:19 a.m. May 4, 2008

We're all descendents of Adam and Eve, and therefore, not only spirit children from the same God but literally blood relatives as well.

How is it, your claim to dead ancestors is any greater than mine? We're all related!

Mormons are charged with doing saving ordinances for all who have lived before. 1 Cor.15:29 John 3:5. That is their faith, and they are free to practice it.

This does not put Catholics on to the Mormon rolls with membership. Nor does it bind anyone in the hereafter. Every individual has their freedom to choose.

Quesiton: Who is anybody to tell anyone else, they can't listen to new ideas in the spirit world?

Between the crucifiction and the resurrection, Christ went and preached to the spirits in the spirit world.

Really, to what end?

The implication being, there is still much work to do, even after death.

To Catholics, this is all nonsense anyway. So where's the beef?

The idea of one Church trying to thwart the harmless practices of another is a tad condescending.

Look, fellas in Rome, it's not the the 3rd-16th centuries anymore. Take down the stakes and put out the fires.

Compulsion is passe', choice rules.

to Orion | 11:20 a.m. May 4, 2008

Personally, i would have no problem with the catholics doing their thing after death. Why? becasue even in the next life, we will have our free agency to choose.

Yes, it does cut both ways.

Anonymous | 11:21 a.m. May 4, 2008

I can't believe the number of responses to this forum that see no harm in taking these records for baptism for the dead. It is NOT just about geneology... I am LDS and would be outraged to be baptized Catholic after I die. Even though I don't believe there would be any impact, I believe LDS doctrine and have made my choice--it would be offensive to have it be undermined or challenged in any way. Don't be so self-centered people!

Anonymous | 11:21 a.m. May 4, 2008

To Fredd -- You obviously know nothing about the LDS archives. You claim that the LDS don't share the records in their vaults, which is completely not true. The Family History Library itself is proof that they're sharing. As is the new Church History Library currently being built.

I understand the concern here. But I also agree the Catholic Church having potentially selfish reasons for allowing the LDS to microfilm. For one, I have heard it said that parishes in Europe have been happy with microfilming because it then means they don't have lots of people trampling through and asking to see records, many of which are old and fragile. Additionally, the potential for records to be destroyed is such that it would always be nice to have a backup.

Join a genealogy group on the web and you'll notice by a far majority most of them are not LDS. And they are grateful to have the LDS records available. I research Poland, in which most people were Catholic. Most of the people in my research group, descendants of Polish immigrants, are probably still Catholic.

JP | 11:25 a.m. May 4, 2008

My favorite part of this article is the pararaph describing how baptisms for the dead work, as though it's common knowledge.

"A practice in which the names of the deceased are baptized into the LDS faith so that they may be united in the afterlife with LDS families, if they so choose."

Shouldn't this be prefaced by something indicating that only Mormons believe in this wacky afterlife footnote? I know the DN is generally pretty objective considering that they are owned by the church, but come on.

AZLDSGal | 11:29 a.m. May 4, 2008

This may be a little set back for those on the other side but we all know in the end that everyone that has ever lived and those that have yet to live will be baptized and will have the choice. That is the one good thing about the Lords true church and that Heavenly Father will always help his children find the light. There will always be a way....

ExCatholic/Now Mormon | 11:30 a.m. May 4, 2008

I've been a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints for 31 years. Our Church teaches that he realized the Churches of his day were wrong and he was trying to get back to the original Church of New Testament times. He couldn't have been a Mormon. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints was established in 1830, long after his day.

Also,to "my questions:" You mentioned wondering why people don't think God is "god" enough to save people without Baptism, etc. Jesus Christ insisted on being Baptized "to fulfil all righteousness." Matthew 3:15. Why would He do that if it wasn't necessary?

Ernie | 11:33 a.m. May 4, 2008

To NON Mormon. Where do you get off speaking for the dead? First, the baptism is a choice. Isn't it better to give them the choice? Maybe the choice was not presented to them during their lives. In the Bible we are directed by God to spread the word. If you don't believe in the LDS Church, that is OK. But, if you believe in the Bible, it is a bit hypocritical to bash Mormons for trying to do the will of God.

Microfilming | 11:33 a.m. May 4, 2008

I recently asked not too long ago how far back in death records the LDS church goes with microfilming- they don't index any names of those who have been dead less than 45 years. The reason for my asking this is because my parents work had been done in the 1990 and the person who submitted their names claimed they had no children. There are children - 7 of them. I'm the oldest and the only member.

Need to make sure you have all your ducks lined up in a row before do the work.

More ExCatholic/Now Mormon | 11:35 a.m. May 4, 2008

On many occasions I've had personal Spiritual proof of the joy that my dead relatives felt when their Babtismal work was done for them.

People should spend more time serving others and doing good rather than finding fault in people with different beliefs than theirs. We Mormons do our best to love God, our families, our country, and try to do good to all men, including our kindred dead, having old-fashioned values that we live by.

Our Church sends Humanitarian Aid all over the world -- school kits, hygiene kits, infant kits, quilts, food, etc. Our people help clean up after disasters. A while back people in an area of the Southeastern US thanked two Churches for their great help -- the Mormons and members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Hmmm -- they are both the same Church! I'd say, "By their fruits ye shall know them." Matthew 7:20

Paul DeBry | 11:36 a.m. May 4, 2008

The Mormon Church does not baptize the dead INTO their church. They make that baptism AVAILABLE to that person in the spirit world. The baptism is valid only if that person accepts it. The Mormon Church believes than no one in the spirit world is forced into any church, including the Mormon Church. For that baptism to be valid in the spirit world, the dead person must accept the teachings of the Mormon Church. If they do not accept those teachings, the baptism is not effective and the person does not become a member of the Mormon Church. Free agency applies there just as it does here. It is silly to think otherwise.

THEY OWN THE RECORDS | 11:40 a.m. May 4, 2008

THEY OWN THE RECORDS THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO CONTROL THE RECORDS.

Re:Ernie | 11:43 a.m. May 4, 2008

I don't speak for the dead, I let them be. Your religion should do the same instead of assuming through your arrogance that you have the right to force one of your religious rites on them.

Bill G | 11:46 a.m. May 4, 2008

Cuts Both Ways: "Would it bother mormons if let's say the FLDS were re-doing the temple ordinances because they figured the mainstream LDS had gone astray."

Not at all. If what they are doing is not true, what does it matter?

orion: "I would think there would be a cry of outrage among the LDS folk if Catholics suddenly baptized deceased, life-long, temple worthy, LDS members. How about church prophets? How about those who died while in service of the LDS Church?"

There would be no outrage at all. Once again, If what they are doing is not true, what does it matter?

Anonymous: "I wonder how you would feel if a group that you thought was a cult, say The Church of Satan, baptised your family into their Church. Would you like it???"

No problem at all. If what they are doing is not true, what does it matter?

Jason: "Mormons want to be left alone to worship how they want and should leave others to do the same."

Which is exactly what they are doing. I don't see any mormons going into other churches and shutting them down saying they are not allowed to worship that way.

Bill G | 11:46 a.m. May 4, 2008

Mark: "I was baptized Lutheran, and chose to be Catholic, and don't want any revisionist history written about me after I die."

No revisionist history is being written about anyone, so you can rest easy here. I see a common theme of lack of understanding about what these records are used for. They are microfilmed and added to a freely available public database to make it easier for you Mark to trace your family history. Adding these records to this database does not rewrite history nor make you a mormon, nor does any baptism for the dead make anyone a mormon. One other thing that is being misunderstood is that just having your name in this database does not qualify you for baptism of the dead. YOUR family members MUST submit your name separately and independently for baptism of the dead.

Reality | 11:47 a.m. May 4, 2008

This is one of those areas where there should not be a seperation of church and state. The state should impose laws against church infringment on personal name and indentity rights. Many people have worked hard to earn their name recognition and its representation of their person. It is unjust for others to modify it by putting their imprint on it.

Mike A. | 11:50 a.m. May 4, 2008

Clearly after reading many of these posts you can see that the D News is LDS owned and the vast majority of its readers are LDS. That is why I only look at the high school sports online DNews. They clearly offer better coverage in high school sports. I just happened to see online coverage on this topic and had to laugh as I started to read the posts. I'm wondering why all you LDS people are online this sunday morning. Probably having a cup of coffee as you browse the net!!!!

Bill G | 11:50 a.m. May 4, 2008

Decider of Dominator: "Turn that around: what gives Mormons the right to make a religious decision for those who have died and were not of the LDS faith, especially if one did not choose to be part of the LDS faith when alive?"

Nobody has given mormons, or anyone else, the right to make a religious decision for those who have died. What makes you think this? It is clearly stated that anyone baptized posthumously must either accept or decline it. It is their own free will to choose. No living or dead mormon, catholic or anyone else can make that decision for them.

Re: to Julie | 11:52 a.m. May 4, 2008

The problem with your argument is that many of these records are hundreds of years old. It's not like we're talking about the Church of Satan baptizing Grandma Beth or Uncle John (as far as I understand it the only way that a deceased person can have this work done for them is if an actual FAMILY MEMBER submits the name). And I don't think that very many people would really care too much if some fanatical "cult" were digging up old records that are hundreds of years old and performing religous ordinance for them. I have an interest in MY ancestors even though I'm not catholic.

Sue | 11:55 a.m. May 4, 2008

I have to admit that I was saddened by the news story this morning. Up to now I have been grateful that a partnership between LDS microfilming and Catholic granting access has blessed the entire world. Without LDS microfilming the parish records, they would have been lost forever. Without the cooperation of Catholic officials, the great genealogical work would not be accomplished.

In our Family History Center, the patron who utilizes the German parish registers the most is a Catholic priest who does genealogical research for others. Perhaps the Catholic church could microfilm their own records and make them available to the world--bypassing the LDS church?

European ecclesiastical history may confuse the baptism issue for some, where non-believers were forced to become baptized for face death. Simply having a proxy baptism in the temple, does NOT make the deceased person a MEMBER of the LDS Church! The dead have a CHOICE to accept or reject this ordinance. All that is recorded is that the ordinance was performed, not whether it was accepted. We have an obligation to baptize those of our ancestry, but this does not to force them to be members..that is their choice.

AZLDSGuy | 11:59 a.m. May 4, 2008

I am a former Catholic and a grateful convert to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I have not a single negative thing to say about the Catholic Church in any way. As an ex-member it would not be appropriate. However being LDS, I understand both sides of the debate and can see how those less learned would make disparaging comments.

If some one decided to try to baptize me posthumously it would mean nothing, they lack the proper authority for it to be recognized by myself or the Lord. So I say go for it.

As for closing the records it seems like a double standard from those outside of the Church. If we closed our records, then we would be attacked no matter the reason. However, we are attacked because the Catholics chose to close their records to us. This is a very typical double standard from those in the world. We are attacked for the actions of others.

ï¿½I will go and do..ï¿½ not sit and stew.

Ernie | 12:01 p.m. May 4, 2008

Non Mormon, No one is forcing anything on anybody. If by chance the LDS Church is true, where is the harm? You emphatecally call us arrogant for trying to help other? If you claim that you know we do not pocess the truth, who then is the arrogant one?

Wyman | 12:09 p.m. May 4, 2008

How unfortunate for all the genealogists in the world, most of whom are not members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Even though information on these individuals can be found in many other data bases, it is unfortunate that this specific information will not become part of the growing, interconnected, worldwide data bases that help people find their ancestors in their quest to understand more clearly who they are, and know more about their family history. If the Catholic Church believes itself as being Christï¿½s official representative instution on earth, what other people, as believers also in Christ, do with their family genealogy information should be of no concern to the Fathers of the Church, even if they donï¿½t believe in the practice of ï¿½baptism for the deadï¿½ as mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:29, a practice which apparently did not stop Paul from preaching his understanding of the Gospel of our Lord, and using this practice as an example of how important it is to make sure everyone hears Christï¿½s saving message.

Agree | 12:11 p.m. May 4, 2008

I agree with Mike A. 11:50 a.m. After all, what right do the Mormons have to express their opinion on subjects related pertaining ligious practices, especially on the Deseret News website?

Catholic | 12:11 p.m. May 4, 2008

Have to agree, by the look of these comments many LDS donï¿½t understand.

1. Sharing church records for those who wish to learn about their ancesters is wonderful, but the purpose of LDS research is to re-baptize members of another faith into Mormonism...just in case. LDS claim the right by saying the dead are ancestors (even if remotely related), but what about the concerns of the direct descendants? The Jewish people were profoundly offended, and I canï¿½t blame them.

2. For those who claim that they are not offended if a Catholic lights a candle for them or prays for them, then great. Weï¿½re not offended if you pray for us either. But there is no comparison. Baptism is an ordinance, not a prayer.

3. Paul didn't say what shall ï¿½weï¿½ do which are baptized for the dead, he said ï¿½theyï¿½, and his point was not to advocate the practice, but to illustrate the point of resurrection. Paul wasn't performing baptisms for the dead. Baptism for the dead was a heretical practice performed by at least one apostate group (Marcionites @150 AD) from the mainstream Catholic faith. Do you still not undertand why it is offensive to Catholics?

Kaitlyn | 12:14 p.m. May 4, 2008

Travis is completely correct. They have the right to withhold their records if they like; it'll slow things down for now, but it's not that long until all records and all history will be open to us. Everyone will be offered the chance for baptism, some are just going to have to wait longer because of this. The work will go forth, no matter who tries to stand in its way.

And no, the Church doesn't release the records of /living/ members, because those records can be abused to harrass people. However, the records of our dead /are/ available, for anyone to access . . . on our family history websites . . . funny coincidence there . . .

(count me among those who wouldn't be bothered if I were rebaptised -- or unbaptised -- after my death)

Gain some clarity here people | 12:15 p.m. May 4, 2008

What if Huckabee went around converting dead momons.

Why can't we let the dead rest in peace.

Surely a fair God will allow those who have passed through the veil a chance at the gospel and all it's rites and rituals if someone on earth forgot to do it?

Quit sweating the politics.

The Catholic Church sees us a kooks anyway.

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