It was hardly an "oops." The San Angelo press is reporting that the number of children is higher because a significant number of the girls who said they were "adults" were actually under the age of 18. Meaning, most likely, that there are actually more than twenty additional girls who were offered as sex toys for old men. Who writes for this paper? Don't you do your homework?

My personal opinions aside, child protective services and the courts must act on law, only the law, and nothing but the law. The LAW grants the right to take into custody only children "in imminent danger" of abuse.

How in God's name are 130 kids under the age of 4 in imminent danger of abuse, here? The only abuse to at least half of these 416 children is the paramilitary removal from their mothers who, regardless of their marital beliefs with teens, appear to love and coddle their little ones as much as anyone.

Texas officials. This miscount is the fault of these women lying and changing their names every time it was asked. The kids were doing the same. Texas has handled this mess as well as anyone could.

What is happening to us? why are we allowing this to happen. Our constitution is very clear on what can and cannot be done to american citizens and we are turning a blind eye. We as a nation are strong but our (no longer free) media has not even been reporting the outrage that the american people are feeling right now. We are a very enterprizing lot tho, so now, those of us that can will be spreading the word by mouth computer and phone however we have to. Remember there are a lot more of us then them. Our once open Government is now sneaking around and believe me it is doing nothoing in the best interest of the american way of life. Our freedoms are seriously at risk and every day that our current administration is in office they do more and more damage to our constitutional rights and civil libertiies. If pelousiey won't demand empeachment we will. Don't for one minute think king george is not in on this one from the start. He has no intention of allowing us to vote anyone in as new president, expect martial law to be called any day now.

I understand it has been a big undertaking for CPS. However, it concerns me that CPS can't even keep track of everyone while under their direct care. Are these children going to be lost once placed in foster homes? This is too large of an undertaking for one judge to handle. There needs to be some serious changes made before it is too late. It would be a tragedy to one day think perhaps we should of done something when it is too late. Perhaps the intentions are well meaning and I really do believe that the older girls are at risk of being abused by the age of the girl. I however, believe that perhaps a better solution would be to put a device such as used in house arrests on the other children and return them home. This sounds cruel to place a device on a young child, however it seems to be a better solution then they presently are implementing.

I have heard alot of praise for how the hard working CPS in Texas has handled the situation. I have heard equal amounts of criticism. I try to use a good mental filter to determine what is fair and what isn't. This, however, speaks to gross incompetence. If you can't even accurately count how many people you have, you can't possibly be meeting their human needs. Texas needs to get its act together right now.

Dear Worried, these children cannot be returned under any circumstances other than complete exhoneration, which does not look at all likely. We all have concerns, but we cannot overlook the secrecy and lawlessness of this cult. Any children returned to them would be in immediate danger of being ferreted out of the country. Both CPS & the judge need our prayers, and of course the children do, too.

Welcome to Texas, where the constitution is thrown out the window.

Jaimie Lynn Spears, don't you dare vacation Texas, they just might take you and everyone with the last name Spears, after all you are only 16!

Heck, 5% of all teens better not move there, you and everyone surrounding you just might be taken from your parents as well. Who knows who got you pregnant, we better just test everyone within your immediate radius and detain them until this matter is resolved.

I have worked with CPS here in Texas and while they are well meaning and good people, they are far from being the sharpest tack in the box. I have no good feelings for abuse of women or children, but CPS could find better ways of dealing with the problem than spilting up mothers and children.

Could it be that they self-identified and were counted as "mothers" because they were among those caring for their children?

I wondered how many of the children were already mothers and how they were counting that. I am also still wondering how many men lived on that compound and how many adult women. That should be very telling and they must have some idea what the ratio is.

This is a sad story that gets worse every day. Texas may be great at enforcing laws--but, they certainly do not appreciate them. Where is the "imminent danger", who have they arrested? They need to either produce evidence of a crime or let these people go home. At this point the only ones that look like criminals are the government officials.

Who is surprised? Texas' CPS does not obey the law of the land. Who would expect them to obey the rules of elementary math?

I have become convinced that the Texas CPS is the breeding ground for incompetence.

Let's give Texas' CPS control over the U.S. nuclear arsenal too! LOL

Who is surprised? Texas' CPS does not obey the law of the land. Who would expect them to obey the rules of elementary math?

I have become convinced that the Texas CPS is the breeding ground for incompetence.

Let's give Texas' CPS control over the U.S. nuclear arsenal too! LOL

Don't they believe in laws in Texas to protect the innocent? There is no way all of these people committed a crime. This is awfull---Texas should be ashamed!

The roles should be reversed.

The FLDS appear to be a wonderful group of loving christian families who just practice old testament teachings. Just as the Amish or the German Baptists who have their old ideas, people under our constitution use to be able to practice their religious beliefs. Just because modern society has progressed into a no God culture is no reason to remove children from parents who are practicing their rights to Freedom of Religion. Red Texans need to let parents raise their own children and stay out of the religious beliefs of others. The only abuse taking place is the confinement of these children and mothers away from their homes.

The day these children are given to foster care will be a day Governor Rick Perry will want back. The children should be kept together as they are now until the state can determine the FACTS. I imagine they didn't even know they were off count (by 21!) until the private "DNA" experts told them what the their count was. --this story is not starting well for either side.

My hat goes off to the State of Texas for standing up to this cult; which is more than the states of Utah, Arizona, and Idaho have done!

Regarding polygamy: These freaks knew it was illegal. They knew they were breaking the law. Either we uphold the illegality of Poly or we change the law.

Regarding returning the kids: Where's the fathers? They are perverts and the sad thing is that they have no idea how disgusting and degrading their beliefs are... THAT is why those children can never be returned to them. Those people are not fit to raise human beings.

One Lie after another with the FLDS. Time to go after the FLDS men. Those FLDS guys are the worst! Polygamy gets stinker by the minute.

Where are the lost boys?

They probably gave birth to 21 new babies since the raid.

Born In SLC, I think you may have it backwards. the SL Trib reports today that "In yet another FLDS raid-related development, coordinating attorneys, legal aid attorneys and guardians ad litem announced an undisclosed number of 20-30 young women whose adult status had been debated had indeed been determined to be legally adults."

It appears that more of the women are adults, not under-aged.

My question is did they just miscount them, or were they born during this painfully long time they have been sequestered.

Are not fit to be American. Ahem . . . Sallies and Sherries.

If you think CPS is so good at raising kids, why not just offer your kids to them?

The ACLU came out on the FLDS children's side. Texas, look out.

I love the ACLU.

If CPS can't keep an accurate count, how can they ensure the safety of every individual child? A child could go missing - how would they know?

There are myriad options that can be employed to mitigate trauma to these children. Nursing children should continue to be nursed for their own health and well-being. Based on what I've read, Judge Walther committed today to watch for such cases and do everything she can to ensure that CPS places nursing mothers with nursing babies.

The debates on so many of these boards is much too polarizing. The facts will come out, and I'm sure they will show that many (probably most) of these children can be returned to their mothers under proper ongoing supervision. This is not all or nothing - many options to ensure the childrens' overall well-being can and will be employed. If you care about their well-being, you can't think that permanent foster care separated for life from loved ones and their culture is in the best interest of these children. The goal in this custody case should not be to punish the FLDS. That's what the criminal code is for.

If they can't even count each child, how does Texas expect to replace each child's mother and father?

"Just because we think a group is distasteful does not mean that all methods should be tolerated in the suppression of that group.

We must be ever wary of arming the government with tools and weapons that might someday be turned on us. We can not always assume we, or reasonable people, will always be in control of the government."

Copied from another blog

There is 220 woman
there is 65 men accounted for on the ranch
there is 437 children 18 and younger

Of the 437 children there is less then 3 dozen male
children

I pray that the innocence of the children will be protected. The State of Texas has launched a vicious attach on American families and should be judged very harshly. Where is our "Missing in Action" Governor and why is he not protecting these children from the CPS mutants?

Honestly, this just shows the lack of care that Texas and shown in this case. They can't even get their own ducks in a row. As someone that lived in Texas, I am not at all surprised by this cavalier investigation.

I have lived in Texas 7 years. The authorities are excellent and have moved on this massive child abuse case in a very reasonable and responsible manner. Not like Utah and Arizona.

The DNA is the key. The men from the compound have split. They are scattered now here and there, my guess is that most are in Utah and Arizona, where apparently the societies approve this kind of abuse.

Texas you did the right thing. Good for you!!

I think it's a good idea if LDS people kept their NOSES out of this FLDS garbage. If you don't believe in polygamy, than don't support these perverts. They are not part of the LDS church. They can only bring the main body of the church down to hell with them. So be aware!
It reflects when you support an evil group.

It is reported on this site that the judge
"....declined to consider the motion to order that nursing mothers remain in the shelter with their children." So the obvious conclusion is CPS plans to separate these nursing babies from their mothers. And for what reason?

The judge is the one who is giving unrestrained power to CPS.

OH and they will make sure all these children in foster homes are taken care of? The will not be raped, beat, killed, druged, poisioned, because Tx CPS has a good handle on things?

They cannot even count them while in CPS custody, how will they protect and care for them in the FOSTER SYSTEM?

The State of Texas did not have to prove abuse to all of the children - rather, they are ensuring their safety, removing them from possible sexual perpetrators and/or those who cannot ensure their health and safety (i.e.: Mothers).

The Mother's may have demonstrated a pattern of "failure to protect their children from harm". FLDS Mother's have demonstrated questionable ability to have influence and/or control over any decisions involving their children.

FLDS have lost credibility with CPS due to their lying, sneaking cell calls, and interfering with the investigation.

CPS cannot return any children if they cannot establish who the biological parents are. I agree with the Judge! Put an end to the madness and lies, and get to the bottom of the situation. Identify who the children biologically belong to. Then allow the parents to prove they can and will protect their children in the future.

Just like in every other State, Texas responded to the "best interest of the child", they found questionable issues of abuse, and they continue to make decisions based upon "best interest of the child".

Who's watching the border cities (Mexico & BC) for other FLDS sects shipping out young pregnant teens, fearing Government?

"...they are far from being the sharpest tack in the box. I have no good feelings for abuse of women or children, but CPS could find better ways of dealing with the problem than spilting up mothers and children..."

I'm sure that the CPS would be more than happy to execute this in a different manner, but the lack of cooperation and outright lies being encountered make it impossible to do anything other than spilt them up.

" Scared in slc | 5:43 p.m. Apr. 21, 2008
What is happening to us? why are we allowing this to happen. Our constitution is very clear on what can and cannot be done to american citizens and we are turning a blind eye."

Obey the law, and you need not fear the law.

"Don't for one minute think king george is not in on this one from the start. He has no intention of allowing us to vote anyone in as new president, expect martial law to be called any day now."

Are you serious? Really?

How can DFPS remove all of the children based upon the allegations of one child?
All children in a household may be removed if any child in that household has been a victim of neglect or abuse by a person in the household.

How does the law define a household?
A unit composed of persons living together in the same dwelling without regard to
whether they are related to each other.

How old do you have to be to enter into a legal marriage in the State of Texas?
A person must be 18 years old to get married; however as of September 1, 2005, a 16 or 17 year-old child can marry with the permission of their parent. Before September 1, 2005, a minor who was at least 14 could get married with the permission of a parent.

"...If you think CPS is so good at raising kids, why not just offer your kids to them?..."

Sure thing; right after you hand over your kids to the local FLDS compound.

Deseret News and the SLTrib have had better coverage than any paper in Texas. I am going to trust them long before a San Angelo newspaper. The SLTrib reported earlier today that a large group of lawyers definitely established that a number of the 20 or so women the CPS believed were minors are actually adults. Up until now they've been counting them as children, which is why you heard lawyers question why an 18 year old mother with a birth certificate was being held against her will with the children. The CPS has been dropping the ball at every turn. This whole thing is going to detonate in Texas' face. By the way, the court has been conspicuously calling 16 and 17 year old women "minors," but there's absolutely nothing at all illegal about them being married or pregnant. Too many people seem willfully ignorant that "minor" does not at all preclude a legal marriage or pregnancy. Some of you all need to pull your heads out of the sand.

The bottom line is you can't take a child from their parents just because of their religious beliefs as this is beginning to APPEAR. I think people just want to see more evidence that ALL of these children were in IMMINENT danger of abuse. That is the only thing that justifies removing a child from its parents. I understand that this evidence may be being withheld because of pending legal action, so I'll try to trust that the evidence is there, but it does make me concerned based on what we know to date.

I love "Wendy's" post about requiring the parents to prove "they can and will protect their children in the future". Good lord - has our public education system really failed us so completely that a person who can sign on to the internet fails to understand basic American liberties? Apply that same logic to smokers, those guilty of DUI's, convicted drug offenders, parents found guilty of not buckling in their child properly in a vehicle, faith healers, welfare mothers, parents who failed to graduate high school, all single mothers, home-schooling parents, etc.

One of the most famous times simple association with a religious organization became grounds for depriving fundamental rights, 6 million deaths ensued.

How on earth, with a couple weeks of "interviews" with these kids and mothers, and hundreds of pages of seized records from their homes, medical office and church, can they not actually arrest someone, a named person, guilty of breaking the very law they justify their case upon??

If a sexual crime has occured - like they allege this group's core belief is centered - certainly they can arrest someone. If not, one has to wonder about the very foundation of their generalized abuse theory.

Quote from the San Angelo newspaper:
-----------------------
Walther demurred on a restraining order request that would have prohibited Child Protective Services from removing nursing children from their mothers during the upcoming foster placement process.

"These most private matters should be handled in an individual manner," Walther said, telling attorneys they should negotiate on a case-by-case basis with CPS in cases where the agency cannot find placements for a mother and her infant.

Each placement order must be signed by the judge, Walther said, and she added she would watch for such cases.

"You can pretty well figure out I will ask these questions," she said.
------------------------------------
This suggests to me that she intends to work to keep nursing mothers with their babies.

Right on, Russ and Wendy! Some of you are obviously
NOT doing your homework to get the facts! There is
a much bigger picture here! Birth defects are common
amongst the FLDS. DNA testing can determine who are
the genetic carriers. The incest cannot and must not
go on! That is abuse against human nature.
Do you think Texas should pay for birth defects,
retardation, and medical problems caused by inbreeding? With welfare and disability checks?
DNA will be important for more than just parentage
determination. Think it out and get the information
straight!
How could this happen in America? Because FLDS HAVE
BEEN GIVEN THEIR FREEDOM TO DO AS THEY PLEASE FOR 100 YEARS AND NOW THERE ARE SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES AS A RESULT!

None of those kids will be going back to any of their parents since the DNA tests will take 30 to 50 days to process.

RE:Red Texan,just a note, we had a True CPS Witch Hunt, here in Washington State,many years ago in
Wenatchee. A local police officer started the false
accusations against a few people, about sexual abuse
of a few children. Several innocent people went to
jail, including and old pastor. A great number of
people were harmed because of false allegations,
including, but not limited to financial ruin.
The governor, Gary Lock was asked to intervene, but
refused several times. The end result was a that the
city of Wenatchee was torn apart, and it turned out
that the police officer, that started it all was
having a sexual relation with one of the girls that
had file the false charges. He left the Force, and
basically walked away. The CPS Folks filed lots of
paperwork, then slowly those falsely accused were
released from jail, in the courts own do time. some
law suits were initiated, and some politicians said
some words, but it was all a lie. Look it up for
yourself. One thing more, "If the sign on the door
says, "Witch Hunters Incorporated",if you want to keep your job,you'd better find Witches.Or no more
job. Just a thought.

In America there used to be a little practice called
innocent until proven guilty, not so anymore in
Zionist police state America. The local Sheriff had informants for 4 years and never found reason to charge anyone in the FLDS of wrongdoing. This is nothing short of a message sent by the government that they will not tolerate any alternate lifestyle that is not ZOG approved, just like Waco and Ruby Ridge. There used to be a term in the legal system coined "fruit of the poison tree" in regards to tainted evidence. That is out the window now and the government feels it can act anyway it wishes to incriminate people it does not like. All you need is a mysterious call, which turns out to come from a dubious source and it is goodbye Habeas corpus, hello be at the mercy of paramilitary thugs in armored personnel carriers toting machine guns. The USA is dead and the government does not represent us anymore. The we come to terms with that, the sooner we can do something to remedy the situation.

I hope Mexico offers them safe sanctuary.

As near as I remember, the FLDS people have the right to 5th amendment protections. If they were not under oath, they are legally justified in saying whatever they want. Incidentally, it seems clear from the trib that 20-30 moms told them they were adults, and CPS did not believe them. So, it seems to me that CPS "can't handle the truth," and instead are spreading rumors to cover their incompetence. This is a hate crime.