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Search: Were beds in temple used for teen sex?
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Voice of Reason | 11:15 p.m. April 10, 2008
If anyone starts to read this it sounds like complete craziness. Where have all
you people been living? This is the real WORLD 2008. Most people are not Mormon
and we do not understand all this mumbo-jumbo. It all sounds like a big CULT to
me--but we're all so quick to point out that we LDS are "nothing at
all" like the FLDS. Whew! It all sounds freaky and scary to me!
Consent | 12:33 a.m. April 11, 2008
You are a fourteen-year-old girl. You have been brought up in a strict, radical
fundamentalist cult. The only lifestyle you know is the one in which women are
completely subordinate to men, and you are damned if you do not A) sumbit 100%
to your husband and B) follow the rules and mores of the church/society. You
just had your first period, so it is time for you to get married. You
don't want to get married to the man for whom you have been selected, but
you know it's expected and you know there will be DIRE consequences if you
resist. Your mother takes you down to the courthouse. The clerk gets your
mother's consent, since you are a minor, for you to marry. Then the clerk
asks you if you want to get married. WHAT DO YOU SAY?
Comments continue below
Wrong...Just Wrong | 12:48 a.m. April 11, 2008
I have read the articles and have no need to comment on the specifics. However,
I have no sympathy for these vile, gluttonous men. May the great State of Texas
exact their justice and help others to calm and reassure these women and
children. Then at sometime in the future may the Lord put an end to this
abomination through His eternal love, understanding and mercy and take away all
the pain and fear. There are some things I have a hard time dealing with and
this is at the top of the list. The humanity of our nation, our wives, children,
mothers and grandmothers treated this way. On this I struggle.
deleted always | 4:40 a.m. April 11, 2008
If the LDS never existed then we can assume the FLDS would not as well. One was
born from the other.
Vic | 4:36 a.m. April 11, 2008
I am quite sure if they found hair samples, they may have found body fluids both
male and female as well.
Mimi | 6:26 a.m. April 11, 2008
I feel SO much better now, knowing that Utah, where the practice of polygamy is
said to be common knowledge, has sent TWO polygamy leaders to prison.
massgirl | 6:32 a.m. April 11, 2008
Have you lost your mind? These mothers sacrifice their children for their
'church' and were sacrificed as teenagers! They all need help!
Mahonri | 7:19 a.m. April 11, 2008
Wow, one rumpled bed and one strand of hair. Solid evidence of something.
Lionheart | 7:40 a.m. April 11, 2008
This is institutional sex slavery and abuse. There is no justification under
heaven and earth.
bubba | 7:58 a.m. April 11, 2008
The Forced sex in the temple story sounds just like the rumours and stories that
were told and still are told about the "genuine" LDS temples. Those
rumours were completely false. And I see little evidence to prove that these
stories are true.
I just hope there is more evidence than is being revealed.
It should take a lot more than rumours and conjecture to take away 400 children from there parents.
To tell you the truth, I personally wouldn't mind seeing this perverse religion be completely disbanded but there are many who think the same way about my religion. Our personal beleifs should not be the law of the land. Abuses should be handled on a case by case basis using real eveidence and testimony. And I haven't seen any of that YET.
I just worry about the precedents being set that allow the government to raid homes and remove children without solid evidence.
I just hope there is more evidence than is being revealed.
It should take a lot more than rumours and conjecture to take away 400 children from there parents.
To tell you the truth, I personally wouldn't mind seeing this perverse religion be completely disbanded but there are many who think the same way about my religion. Our personal beleifs should not be the law of the land. Abuses should be handled on a case by case basis using real eveidence and testimony. And I haven't seen any of that YET.
I just worry about the precedents being set that allow the government to raid homes and remove children without solid evidence.
massgirl | 8:05 a.m. April 11, 2008
mahonri-what world are you living in? Would you have more kids sacrificed in
this sick culture before something is done?
jdc | 8:08 a.m. April 11, 2008
Are there people living in polygamous relationships similar to what we see on
the tv show Big Love?
Meghan | 8:26 a.m. April 11, 2008
I went to an LDS church for a year and immersed myself in their beliefs, their
practices, events, ect. The beliefs that the FLDS church in this event do not
coincide with the practices of the LDS. They are a segment, a break off of the
original theology, twisting and changing the information in the bible so that it
is completely wrong, both morally and ethically. The LDS do not in any way
support what the FLDS has done. They believe in the sanctity of marriage between
man and woman, not man and child, where the man has only that woman before
God.
They believe in protecting the children; children are important to their faith and to their closeness with God. There is no way any REAL LDS member would ever have condoned what these perverts were doing to those poor children.
All those "men" who had "relationships" and actually believed the lie they were told should be harshly dealt with, unless they were mentally ill. This crossed the line where any human being should have gone, "This is not right no matter what they've been telling me" and should have realized that their actions were not condoned by God.
They believe in protecting the children; children are important to their faith and to their closeness with God. There is no way any REAL LDS member would ever have condoned what these perverts were doing to those poor children.
All those "men" who had "relationships" and actually believed the lie they were told should be harshly dealt with, unless they were mentally ill. This crossed the line where any human being should have gone, "This is not right no matter what they've been telling me" and should have realized that their actions were not condoned by God.
Lawyer Bob In Texas | 8:38 a.m. April 11, 2008
The leader of FLDS is in state prison for assisting in the statutory rape of
girls under the age of consent for sex. He thinks God told him to marry them to
their cousins. Warren Jeffs is considered their Prophet, their mouthpiece of
God, and, again, is in prison for violating state law. The Constitution
protects the Freedom of Religion, so long as it doesn't violate established
laws. FLDS consider themselves Christians but openly believe once a woman can
bear a child, it is her calling to start producing children to enter their
heaven. A young woman/girl can have children at a very young age and if men,
over the age of 17 in Texas are having sex with girls under the age of 17 in
Texas, it's a violation of state law. Because this occurs, allegedly, in
their Temple, there is no Constitutional protection to violate laws. If you
live in a compound on US soil, the walls do not stop the application of laws
designed to protect children. The press releases do not give the full details
and five days of searching with the Feds will lead to much information not make
known immediately.
Cytron | 9:27 a.m. April 11, 2008
Although I dont agree with what the FLDS are doing. I still feel that this is a
conspiracy of sorts. Who was the girl that called in, was it really from the
compound, was she a plant or informant which allowed the warrant to be
exercised?
No one is looking at the bigger picture - if this was a muslim mosque and they raided it like this, the muslim community would up in arms and screaming desicration. If you have ever been to a mosque there are beds in the back as well.
This was their house of whorship, I hope the State & Federal governements didnt take it lighty that they invaded it. Again I disagree with what they are doing but it seems to me religious freedom is no longer a freedom if you are FLDS, only muslim, catholic, baptist, mormon etc.
I dont recall them raiding any catholic cathedrals after several priest were accused of being pedofiles 3 years ago. It is now know that several priest raped and sexually assualted 100s of kids over the years. Were is the equality?
No one is looking at the bigger picture - if this was a muslim mosque and they raided it like this, the muslim community would up in arms and screaming desicration. If you have ever been to a mosque there are beds in the back as well.
This was their house of whorship, I hope the State & Federal governements didnt take it lighty that they invaded it. Again I disagree with what they are doing but it seems to me religious freedom is no longer a freedom if you are FLDS, only muslim, catholic, baptist, mormon etc.
I dont recall them raiding any catholic cathedrals after several priest were accused of being pedofiles 3 years ago. It is now know that several priest raped and sexually assualted 100s of kids over the years. Were is the equality?
Anonymous | 10:07 a.m. April 11, 2008
My question is would they have done this to a Muslim Mosque or a Catholic
Cathedral - History has proved the didnt and many of the same things have gone
on! Where is the equality.
I dont condone this but it something is not quite right here.
I dont condone this but it something is not quite right here.
Sagacious Inquisitor | 10:17 a.m. April 11, 2008
Lawyer Bob.
With your training, do you believe that this fishing trip based on an open ended warrant is fully within "established laws"?
Can a warrant properly issue based solely on the telephoned words of an unidentifiable individual who claims to be a "witness or possible victim"?
Do you believe that a crime; "allegedly, in their Temple" is grounds for taking 400+ children and mothers who may or may not be somehow remotely connected to a possibly flimsily structured "alleged" "violation of state law"; can be established without accrual to the law which governs exactly how warrants must be issued?
Would you accept the opportunity to defend this raid against possibly innocent parties and premises?
With your training, do you believe that this fishing trip based on an open ended warrant is fully within "established laws"?
Can a warrant properly issue based solely on the telephoned words of an unidentifiable individual who claims to be a "witness or possible victim"?
Do you believe that a crime; "allegedly, in their Temple" is grounds for taking 400+ children and mothers who may or may not be somehow remotely connected to a possibly flimsily structured "alleged" "violation of state law"; can be established without accrual to the law which governs exactly how warrants must be issued?
Would you accept the opportunity to defend this raid against possibly innocent parties and premises?
Anonymous | 10:22 a.m. April 11, 2008
The Bed could be off of an administrative office for someone working late hours,
or just wanting to take a nap.
I am a Doctor, and we have beds for employees who work late nights...lets not jump to conclusions here.
There are civil rights being violated on both sides at this point - Texas is in hot water for ceising an entire town's children. They could do it for a home, but not an entire town without cause.
I am a Doctor, and we have beds for employees who work late nights...lets not jump to conclusions here.
There are civil rights being violated on both sides at this point - Texas is in hot water for ceising an entire town's children. They could do it for a home, but not an entire town without cause.
Anonymous | 10:57 a.m. April 11, 2008
They have investigated wherever they have had reports of abuse. The abuse has
been rampant in this society. This was definately justified. We will not stand
for abuse of children and forced marriages!
CenCalGirl | 11:03 a.m. April 11, 2008
I can't understand why people think we have ANYTHING in common with these
guys. I went to school with Warren Jeffs at Jordan High School back in the
70's. All the Jeffs kids looked like throw backs then when mini skirts were
in style...with their hair nets and buns.
Are there beds in the LDS Temples? I know of two......one in the Nurses lounge in the Oakland temple......for if someone gets ill. It's in plan view of everyone.........and in the nursery there are a few cribs and like a day bed.
I doubt they can get this under control......to many people practice it.
I understand the mothers wanting to protect their kids.......but they should of thought about that before they sent their daughter's with dirty old men.........
Are there beds in the LDS Temples? I know of two......one in the Nurses lounge in the Oakland temple......for if someone gets ill. It's in plan view of everyone.........and in the nursery there are a few cribs and like a day bed.
I doubt they can get this under control......to many people practice it.
I understand the mothers wanting to protect their kids.......but they should of thought about that before they sent their daughter's with dirty old men.........
Anonymous homework | 11:20 a.m. April 11, 2008
To Anonymous
I probably shouldn't even respond to you as you obviously don't know what you are talking about... Joseph Smith had one wife and that flaming sword is more likely from some fairy tale you heard when you were a kid. Do your homework before you make stupid comments!!
I probably shouldn't even respond to you as you obviously don't know what you are talking about... Joseph Smith had one wife and that flaming sword is more likely from some fairy tale you heard when you were a kid. Do your homework before you make stupid comments!!
Carly | 12:07 p.m. April 11, 2008
I find it extremely strange when LDS people claim that they are not related in
any way to FLDS...Brigham Young and Joseph Smith created crazy ideas and
convinced people to believe them (polygamy, blood atonement e.g.) and then when
these are no longer acceptable by society the LDS church denounces them. If you
are not going to believe half of what Joseph Smith said, how can you say that
the other half of what he said is true and divine??? It makes no sense.
re: Carly | 1:03 p.m. April 11, 2008
Go to lds.org and request a couple of missionaries to come and explain.
swingers??? | 1:25 p.m. April 11, 2008
I don't see big busts on swinger communities or nudist colonies....Oh that
is right, those aren't sacred so therefore they are legal.
TO: RE : 3:51 pm 4/10 | 1:43 p.m. April 11, 2008
("I know that Polygamy still exists in Utah but not among practicing
Mormons."
You have never been more wrong my friend!
There are plenty of practicing mormons in polygamist replationships. Visit Utah County sometime.)
Just where in UT Co. are all these 'practicing mormons in poly relationships'? How would I recognize them? I have lived in this county for over 20 years in different areas and have never heard of or seen anything like this. What is ridiculous is that you could make statements like that on here and somebody will believe it. a bunch of hogwash. There were some known polygs out in Cedar Valley but they sure wouldn't have wanted to be called mormons.
You have never been more wrong my friend!
There are plenty of practicing mormons in polygamist replationships. Visit Utah County sometime.)
Just where in UT Co. are all these 'practicing mormons in poly relationships'? How would I recognize them? I have lived in this county for over 20 years in different areas and have never heard of or seen anything like this. What is ridiculous is that you could make statements like that on here and somebody will believe it. a bunch of hogwash. There were some known polygs out in Cedar Valley but they sure wouldn't have wanted to be called mormons.
Madelin | 1:58 p.m. April 11, 2008
The FLDS church claims Brigham Young was a FALSE prophet. So they don't
follow the same prophets as main stream LDS. So they don't believe the same
as we do. The religions are 2 separate religions in every way.
Reply to Madelin | 2:20 p.m. April 11, 2008
Madelin (1:58pm) I think you're mistaken. The FLDS broke away when the LDS
church conceded polygamy to the government around 1890. Until then there was no
reason to add an "F" to "LDS".
Madelin | 2:48 p.m. April 11, 2008
Hey, I know some FLDS and these folks said that they believe that BRIGHAM YOUNG
WAS A FALSE PROPHET. So I don't where, or what polygamists group you know?
You as well will never see a picture of BY in their homes....hummmmm?
Anonymous | 2:58 p.m. April 11, 2008
"Joseph Smith had one wife and that flaming sword is more likely from some
fairy tale you heard when you were a kid. Do your homework before you make
stupid comments!!"
Joseph Smith had 33 wives and he coerced Emma into accepting the situation by telling her that it was ordered by an angel with a flaming sword.
You don't need to believe me. You can read D&C section 132 and then do a genealogical search on Joseph Smith and his wives in the church's records.
Joseph Smith had 33 wives and he coerced Emma into accepting the situation by telling her that it was ordered by an angel with a flaming sword.
You don't need to believe me. You can read D&C section 132 and then do a genealogical search on Joseph Smith and his wives in the church's records.
Margaret | 3:58 p.m. April 11, 2008
Seriously bad PR for the church. Also, the editorial from the St. George
Spectrum is disturbing. What planet are they from? Almost makes you think that
there are polygamists working there, or else, why are they so sympathetic?
Also, it's fine however wives a man has if he can support them but how can one support x number of wives and xx children? Oh, I know how! The very government that they rail against is the one who is providing welfare for the wives and children.
The men who engage in this twist scripture to their advantage to live this lifestyle.
Also, it's fine however wives a man has if he can support them but how can one support x number of wives and xx children? Oh, I know how! The very government that they rail against is the one who is providing welfare for the wives and children.
The men who engage in this twist scripture to their advantage to live this lifestyle.
June | 8:19 p.m. April 11, 2008
Ediddy - plural marriage is not the only issue here, I hope you realize that!
We are talking about statutory rape, incest, along with false imprisonment - are
you still willing to defend them now? These women and children are not allowed
to leave their compound - and beaten if they do. That's abuse.
Totally disgusted | 11:17 p.m. April 11, 2008
The ONLY reason an older man would marry an underaged girl is SEX. Having
multiple wives does not require a person to marry a child of 14 or 15. These
are sick, sick, people who prey on children in the name of religion. Let's
call them what they are, FLDS pedophiles.
Jumping to Scandalous Conclusion | 11:27 p.m. April 11, 2008
This just seems like trashy reporting to me, trying to scandalize things.
Maybe the beds were used for sleeping? Even if they were used for sex, is that worth reporting?
Maybe the beds were used for sleeping? Even if they were used for sex, is that worth reporting?
little girls | 2:04 a.m. April 12, 2008
"
swingers??? | 1:25 p.m. Apr. 11, 2008
I don't see big busts on swinger communities or nudist colonies....Oh that is right, those aren't sacred so therefore they are legal."
You would see 'big busts' on these communities if pubescent girls were involved. What part of this are you people not understanding?
swingers??? | 1:25 p.m. Apr. 11, 2008
I don't see big busts on swinger communities or nudist colonies....Oh that is right, those aren't sacred so therefore they are legal."
You would see 'big busts' on these communities if pubescent girls were involved. What part of this are you people not understanding?
contending for the faith | 2:11 a.m. April 12, 2008
"
re: Carly | 1:03 p.m. Apr. 11, 2008
Go to lds.org and request a couple of missionaries to come and explain."
Good luck with that...every time I try to have a discussion with them, they get a feeling of contention and bug out.
re: Carly | 1:03 p.m. Apr. 11, 2008
Go to lds.org and request a couple of missionaries to come and explain."
Good luck with that...every time I try to have a discussion with them, they get a feeling of contention and bug out.
puppeteers | 6:59 a.m. April 12, 2008
"...is that worth reporting?..."
Heck yes it's worth reporting...just look at these headlines the past week! All designed to throw y'all into a feeding frenzy of righteous anger; whichever side you choose to be angry about, the paper still wins.
Were beds in temple used for teen sex? the headline asks us, as if we might know and are sharing in the moral outrage with the author, who also has no idea at this point. He doesn't need to know either, and he knows it. He's dangles a hook and watches the response. They play passive-aggressive with the subject, alternately incensed, then sad for the pleading mothers, then dangling something like 'temple sex beds'. As you can see, they really don't care one way or the other, so long as the herd is raising dust and the hits are way up and selling ads. Ka-ching! That's what it's all about folks. Thanks for playing!
Heck yes it's worth reporting...just look at these headlines the past week! All designed to throw y'all into a feeding frenzy of righteous anger; whichever side you choose to be angry about, the paper still wins.
Were beds in temple used for teen sex? the headline asks us, as if we might know and are sharing in the moral outrage with the author, who also has no idea at this point. He doesn't need to know either, and he knows it. He's dangles a hook and watches the response. They play passive-aggressive with the subject, alternately incensed, then sad for the pleading mothers, then dangling something like 'temple sex beds'. As you can see, they really don't care one way or the other, so long as the herd is raising dust and the hits are way up and selling ads. Ka-ching! That's what it's all about folks. Thanks for playing!
katie | 8:12 a.m. April 12, 2008
it kind of makes me laugh at peoples' remarks. THIS IS NOT ABOUT RELIGION!
If it were about religion, then the feds would have cracked down on the FLDS
church a long time ago. It's only about adults having sex with minors, and
abuse. That's it. The ranch had been there for a while. Texas officials had
done nothing about them being there until a phone call from a 16 year old girl
with a baby, and one on the way, said she was being abused. I think that calls
for drastic measures. I applaud Texas officials for stepping in. Maybe these
children will get the chance to live normal lives and not be used as baby
breeding machines.
Reluctant apologist in PA | 8:34 a.m. April 12, 2008
1. Isaiah 55:8,9
2. 12th article of faith
3. "Kill'em all"
Multiple lawsiuts against Joseph Smith...all resulting in acquittal as far as I'm aware of. FLDS, at least two convictions. See #2 for the difference between the LDS and FLDS.
Governor Boggs (see #3). Easy to see how media can serve as a catalyst to drive hate. Just wait for the evidence to be presented. I am LDS, but I voice concern for all the members of this community.
Joseph Smith did restore plural marriage (D&C 132-read the whole section to retain context. Also read Joseph Smith by John A. Widtsoe pp.234-242). To all the moral projectionists in this thread, see #1.
2. 12th article of faith
3. "Kill'em all"
Multiple lawsiuts against Joseph Smith...all resulting in acquittal as far as I'm aware of. FLDS, at least two convictions. See #2 for the difference between the LDS and FLDS.
Governor Boggs (see #3). Easy to see how media can serve as a catalyst to drive hate. Just wait for the evidence to be presented. I am LDS, but I voice concern for all the members of this community.
Joseph Smith did restore plural marriage (D&C 132-read the whole section to retain context. Also read Joseph Smith by John A. Widtsoe pp.234-242). To all the moral projectionists in this thread, see #1.
beds in LDS temples | 8:42 a.m. April 12, 2008
i bet most of you didn't know this, but there are beds in LDS Mormon
temples, too! I work in the temple. there are two beds there in the first aid
room so that those who are ill may lie down. well, they are really glorified
(no pun intended) cots with a pad and medical paper (like at the doctor's
office) over the top.
Jerry | 9:37 a.m. April 12, 2008
UTAH is trashed with the same perverted men. Polygamy is sick! Not a practice
form God.
Utah should follow suit | 10:43 a.m. April 12, 2008
WAY TO GO Texas on taking a hard stand of disturbing SEX abuse masked as
religious. Utah needs to look a little harder and do the same thing. . .too bad
nobody wants to risk their political position to protect the children in Utah.
BE like me | 11:29 a.m. April 12, 2008
Wait! There are beds in college dorms where people under age engage in sex....
Hurry save them rmo themselves... Indoctrinate them into your
"normal" society....
Maybe Texas shoujld start saving the chidren of those church's that handle rattle snakes too.....
Maybe Texas shoujld start saving the chidren of those church's that handle rattle snakes too.....
Don | 11:35 a.m. April 12, 2008
My neighbor, who is LDS,told me that LDS temples
have a few beds, which are used by those that work
there for rest, nothing more. Please, don't fall
for the salacious reporting that passes for facts.
have a few beds, which are used by those that work
there for rest, nothing more. Please, don't fall
for the salacious reporting that passes for facts.
Beatrice | 12:04 p.m. April 12, 2008
To: Be Like Me: You have missed the point.
It is called statuatory rape if one of those
sex partners is an ADULT and one is underage...
It is a crime as opposed to just being 'morally corrupt'.
The FLDS temple building was declared a crime scene because of the nature of the complaint...as would be
a Mosque, a Jewish Temple, oe a Baptist Church.
There are no law enforcement impropriaties here
if one understands the whole picture.
It is called statuatory rape if one of those
sex partners is an ADULT and one is underage...
It is a crime as opposed to just being 'morally corrupt'.
The FLDS temple building was declared a crime scene because of the nature of the complaint...as would be
a Mosque, a Jewish Temple, oe a Baptist Church.
There are no law enforcement impropriaties here
if one understands the whole picture.
Matt in Tucson | 1:31 p.m. April 12, 2008
Now, if the girl is calling on the phone for extended periods of time,
don't you think they would have a few facts they could have checked out
first? Perhaps they could have checked out if the alleged abuser was even in
the state, let alone the ranch. Perhaps they could have driven by and seen
whether there were actually guards posted at the gates. Perhaps they could have
triangulated the position of the cell phone. If they had tried to verify even
one fact before acting, this raid probably would have never happened.
Just so you know | 2:12 p.m. April 12, 2008
To the people who don't believe there are polygamists in Utah county, yes,
there are. Not all polygamists where clothing and hairstyles that stand out.
In fact, I wasn't even aware that a close friend was the daughter of a
polygamist for several years--she dressed just like me, and even went to Church
with me. However, most of her family has now moved to Juab county.
Texas Ute | 2:12 p.m. April 12, 2008
Texas rngers aren't stupid. they had their facts together. A judge
wouldn't have granted a warrant otherwise. Oh, I forgot it's a
conspiracy by Bush.
DANIEL | 2:22 p.m. April 12, 2008
You people who condone the polygamy practice need to have a mental evaluation
done. There is nothing righteous for MEN to have sex slaves in America. You who
think this are the worst immoral people on our planet, and will probably go to
hell for your perversions. It's time the government cleaned up all these
polygamy cults. Child rape is not normal. And to hide it behind a religion, WELL
FOLKS, there is nothing religious about this practice, it's only sexual
gratification for a few perverts!
to everyone... | 3:18 p.m. April 12, 2008
who is talking about utah not doing anything, educate yourselves! utah is
fighting it EVERY day, in fact we are the experts on it, teaxas child
services/police force is working very closely with utah child services/police
force to know how to deal with this problem. everything they are doing is based
on ow utah has dealed with it in the past, just because there haven't been
any raids in utah of this size, don't think that we don't fight this
more than anyone.
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Newly unsealed portions of a search warrant have provided a glimpse of some of what officers saw at the FLDS ranch, including inside the temple.
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You see, the thing that people keep getting confused about and nobody is making clear is this:
FLDS is not the same as LDS. You probably haven't heard that, because nobody is drawing the distinction, but the truth is that FLDS is not LDS.
Just wanted to make sure everyone knew that.
Because it hasn't really been brought up until I just thought of bringing it up.