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Search: Were beds in temple used for teen sex?
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LDS Mom | 9:54 a.m. April 10, 2008
It sounds as if the taking of under age girls into "spiritual"
marriage is not an uncommon practice among these people. These young girls
deserve to be protected and I for one am glad the government has gotten
involved. This has nothing to do with polygamy, but has everything to do with
child abuse.
Daydreaming fools! | 9:56 a.m. April 10, 2008
This post has certainly brought a few lamebrains out of the woodwork. Some of
you who are absolute idiots! I have never in my life read such brainless
thoughts.
Sex abuse is WRONG! DUH! God has nothing to do with all this perversions. Also the authorities are doing the right thing with these families, even if this situation tears them apart for a short time. Some of you people need an education on life and the real world, and quit acting like you have all been drugged mentally against society and reality!
Sex abuse is WRONG! DUH! God has nothing to do with all this perversions. Also the authorities are doing the right thing with these families, even if this situation tears them apart for a short time. Some of you people need an education on life and the real world, and quit acting like you have all been drugged mentally against society and reality!
Ben Pratt | 9:57 a.m. April 10, 2008
Anonymous- You make such bold statements, and then you hide behind
anonymity...it really hurts your credibility. If your going to make the claims
that you're making, and you really believe those claims, then take
ownership of those words instead of making your message anonymous.
Comments continue below
to ExTexan | 10:07 a.m. April 10, 2008
Guess you didn't read the story about Fumarase Deficiency which is a
*severe* birth defect leaving children with IQs around 25 and incapable of more
than a near vegetative existence. At one time not too long ago there were 13
known cases worldwide. There are not more than 20 cases on the UT/AZ border as
a result of the inbreeding in polygamous populations.
While we're waiting on the DNA I'd say that tells it's own tale.
Wages of sin and all that... I'd say UT and AZ are about to pay big time for looking the other way all these years. Because that defective gene is so thoroughly implanted in the DNA of those people that the number of afflicted will just grow from this point onward.
Nice going!
While we're waiting on the DNA I'd say that tells it's own tale.
Wages of sin and all that... I'd say UT and AZ are about to pay big time for looking the other way all these years. Because that defective gene is so thoroughly implanted in the DNA of those people that the number of afflicted will just grow from this point onward.
Nice going!
To Ben Pratt | 10:11 a.m. April 10, 2008
I don't need to take any ownership at all. It's not mine. The
ownership belongs to the LDS. It's there in the D&C
� right at this moment � and it's
in the the genealogical records.
See for yourself!
See for yourself!
Some Thoughts | 10:14 a.m. April 10, 2008
"ediddy": Thanks for your comments. They are intelligent,
thought-provoking, and avoid the emotion that seems to be driving the media and
much of the public.
I watched CNN and Fox last night and had the thought over and over and that all of the vile behavior the authorities were uncovering was a little too convenient and pat. It made me think they were soliciting public outrage to justify their searches. I AM outraged, but I want it based in fact and truth, NOT manipulation.
I watched CNN and Fox last night and had the thought over and over and that all of the vile behavior the authorities were uncovering was a little too convenient and pat. It made me think they were soliciting public outrage to justify their searches. I AM outraged, but I want it based in fact and truth, NOT manipulation.
Honest Question | 10:18 a.m. April 10, 2008
It is clear that polygamy was introduced by Joseph Smith and continued by
Brigham Young and John Taylor as an essential part of the restored gospel and
celestial marriage. Church leaders of that time publically denounced the notion
that it was due to an excess of LDS women - they went to great lengths to make
it CLEAR that it was a revealed practice essential to the restored gospel.
Today it appears clear that Church PR comments are designed to greatly minimize this past and make clear how distanced today's church is from that past and those who continue to practice it. Sunday School manuals do not even mention those devoted and faithful polygamous wives as if they simply did not exist.
HOWEVER, the Church allows LDS males to be sealed to multiple wives on this earth as long as the previous earthly marriage ended in death or divorce. LDS females must break the previous sealing in order to be sealed to another - males do not. Males today can have multiple sealings - females cannot. It is as if internally the doctrine lives on but externally there is an effort to distance and minimize. This is genuinely confusing.
Today it appears clear that Church PR comments are designed to greatly minimize this past and make clear how distanced today's church is from that past and those who continue to practice it. Sunday School manuals do not even mention those devoted and faithful polygamous wives as if they simply did not exist.
HOWEVER, the Church allows LDS males to be sealed to multiple wives on this earth as long as the previous earthly marriage ended in death or divorce. LDS females must break the previous sealing in order to be sealed to another - males do not. Males today can have multiple sealings - females cannot. It is as if internally the doctrine lives on but externally there is an effort to distance and minimize. This is genuinely confusing.
TDS | 10:24 a.m. April 10, 2008
Rational thinking, whether liberal or not, is what keeps us from formulating
weak and biased ideas. Isn�t that the type of treatment
that we would all want if we were being accused? Let�s
forgo the lynch mob mentality for a moment and try to understand the situation
for what it is.
Throughout this blog several have made the claim that this monumental undertaking is based exclusively, or predominately, on pedophilia and abuse, because all FLDS underage girls are either pregnant or abused, and not because the group practices polygyny.
Let us consider the following statements as counters to this premise.
Polygyny is an illegal practice here in the U.S. Older FLDS men practice polygyny. Therefore, even if the parents of an FLDS underage girl consented to her marrying an older FLDS man, as well as the girl herself, it could not be done because polygyny is an illegal practice here in the U.S. Consequently, pedophilia is common among FLDS practitioners because even though polygyny is illegal, they persist in practicing it.
Does pedophilia in this case tie directly into the FLDS version/practice of polgyny? � Yes it does. Therefore if polygyny was legal, pedophilia among FLDS practitioners would decline enormously.
Throughout this blog several have made the claim that this monumental undertaking is based exclusively, or predominately, on pedophilia and abuse, because all FLDS underage girls are either pregnant or abused, and not because the group practices polygyny.
Let us consider the following statements as counters to this premise.
Polygyny is an illegal practice here in the U.S. Older FLDS men practice polygyny. Therefore, even if the parents of an FLDS underage girl consented to her marrying an older FLDS man, as well as the girl herself, it could not be done because polygyny is an illegal practice here in the U.S. Consequently, pedophilia is common among FLDS practitioners because even though polygyny is illegal, they persist in practicing it.
Does pedophilia in this case tie directly into the FLDS version/practice of polgyny? � Yes it does. Therefore if polygyny was legal, pedophilia among FLDS practitioners would decline enormously.
Brian | 10:36 a.m. April 10, 2008
This is just sad. There's no other way to put it. Let's hope the
truth comes out (whatever it is).
legal man | 10:32 a.m. April 10, 2008
If polygamy is illegal, then for crying out loud, lets ban it and quit turning a
blind eye to it. PERIOD!
To GT: | 10:39 a.m. April 10, 2008
Hate to tell you this but this isn't a soap opera. This is acutal children
were talking about.
Scary!!! | 10:56 a.m. April 10, 2008
I have never seen anything like this. Surely the law needs to deal with the
abuses as it should, but fairly, and everywhere in the country. Ripping appart
this community on the basis of anonymous phone calls, alleged abuse and heresay
is outrageous. Beds in the temple for underage sex? Sounds sensational and
horrible, but is it true or just someone's rumor. Why get the public on a
witch hunt until the facts are solid. What happened to innocent until proven
guilty? If they can tear apart this community in this manner and it is all
legal, they can tear apart your life as well. It would just take a call from a
nosey neighbor who thought they MAY, POSSIBLY have seen something and bam, your
kids are gone. Shall we enforce the laws dealing with adultery with equal
vengance? Underage sex? Pornography? Sodomy? And do it broadly and equally
through the country? Or is that all okay, as long as the people are not
polygamists?
The Shadow | 10:57 a.m. April 10, 2008
Interesting press conference in Texas this morning regarding the raid. A lot of
politician-like responses however, by answering around the questions rather than
directly answering them. The Sheriff provided enough subtle clues to identify
his "informant" that has kept him in the know for the past four years
though. Not surprised.
amazed1 | 12:01 p.m. April 10, 2008
What about all the "obvious" not teenage mothers with children? From
all the news reports and from many reader comments you would think that all FLDS
men do is have sex with underage girls. How did they ever have time to build a
compound like the one shown us in the photos? How did all the "older"
women get impregnated? I thought it was also interesting how many post that the
FLDS children need a normal life. What is normal? For example: Why do we wear
clothing that exposes our flesh. Why do "normal" women wear makeup?
Why do we date? Is it because we have been indocrated with those traditions
since our birth? Just a thought.
No more soaps. | 12:11 p.m. April 10, 2008
I gave up my soaps when in conference, I think Elder Ballard, said not to spend
time watching soaps, someone mentioned that this was a soap opera, it is. I
would much rather this not to be real, a 16 year old girl with four children.
Sadly these people are so brainwashed, they are like a suicide bomber, they
really think they are doing something good. I hope that the best will be done
for these children and that those who are victims of abuse of any kind will not
have to return.
Anonymous | 12:17 p.m. April 10, 2008
Stop trying to discredit the girl who phoned whether or not she has been found.
Pregnant minors HAVE been found. And teens who have already had 3 or more
children.
Meanwhile, remember how long the police tracked Warren Jeffs from one polygamous compound to another. That gives credence to the possibility that she has been whisked away to one of the number of communities that protect this sordid behavior WITH ARMED GUARDS IN WATCHTOWERS. If she hasn't been located that could simply mean that she is still in need of help.
Get a sense of proportion people! Instead of being concerned about protecting the vulnerability of your own buildings & rites how about thinking about children who are kept uneducated, forced into sexual slavery, turned out into the world unprepared because they're seen as sexual competitors, subject to growing genetic deficiency from inbreeding, who will never have a life beyond scraping for daily sustenance while their GAs preside over fortunes in the tens & hundreds of millions.
Stop thinking and behaving reflexively and see what's been going on under your very noses for decades and then thank god that someone finally had the cojones to DO something about it!
Meanwhile, remember how long the police tracked Warren Jeffs from one polygamous compound to another. That gives credence to the possibility that she has been whisked away to one of the number of communities that protect this sordid behavior WITH ARMED GUARDS IN WATCHTOWERS. If she hasn't been located that could simply mean that she is still in need of help.
Get a sense of proportion people! Instead of being concerned about protecting the vulnerability of your own buildings & rites how about thinking about children who are kept uneducated, forced into sexual slavery, turned out into the world unprepared because they're seen as sexual competitors, subject to growing genetic deficiency from inbreeding, who will never have a life beyond scraping for daily sustenance while their GAs preside over fortunes in the tens & hundreds of millions.
Stop thinking and behaving reflexively and see what's been going on under your very noses for decades and then thank god that someone finally had the cojones to DO something about it!
Anonymous | 12:21 p.m. April 10, 2008
Claiming the LDS still seals people to multiple wives is ludicrous. I have been
a member all my life and never have met a polygomous person in the church. If a
person did do this they would be excommunicated pure and simple. How cowardly to
not leave a name and state such outright lies. Apparently you have not read the
commandment about false witness. For the people criticizing Utah's laws.
They have some of the harshest laws in the nation toward polygamy. There is a
reason the polygamists moved their compound to Texas. The Romney campaign let
LDS people know that there is no goodwill to Mormons example Jesus and Satan are
brothers. When you have Baptist and other religions preaching hate over the
pulpit what do you expect.
Anonymous | 12:44 p.m. April 10, 2008
Finally someone brought up the fact that these men are not only marrying young
women a lot of the time they are RELATED. That is the part that is truly
disturbing.
double standard | 12:51 p.m. April 10, 2008
The double standard I'm seeing in the media with all this is appalling -
its a sensational headline to find young girls married and having children if
its for religious purposes(yes, I realize that the general opinion is that most
girls didn't have a choice - but that, too, is speculation at this point)
-- yet where is the outcry about Jamie Lynn Spears getting pregnant at 16 by a
guy several years older than her? I don't recall him being arrested! If
anything, her pregnancy has been glorified in the media - all the
"cute" pictures of her shopping for baby clothes, etc.
2.)Why are the parents of these child-brides not charged with anything? If the girl who made the phone call really exists, didn't she say her parents basically dropped her off at the ranch to get married? HELLO! They led her to the lions den and left her there. On purpose.
3.)There is a reality show on TV about Hugh Hefner and his many girlfriends who are like 100 years younger than him - but because they're just acting like they're married, instead of actually legalizing it - its mainstream media. Go figure.
2.)Why are the parents of these child-brides not charged with anything? If the girl who made the phone call really exists, didn't she say her parents basically dropped her off at the ranch to get married? HELLO! They led her to the lions den and left her there. On purpose.
3.)There is a reality show on TV about Hugh Hefner and his many girlfriends who are like 100 years younger than him - but because they're just acting like they're married, instead of actually legalizing it - its mainstream media. Go figure.
To Anonymous | 1:06 p.m. April 10, 2008
Let me be more clear if my earlier post confused you. If a male member of the
church divorces or his spouse dies, he may be sealed again in the temple while
maintaining his previous sealing. I peronally know men who have done this
multiple times through a combination of divorce and death of a spouse resulting
in being sealed to, in one instance, 4 wives. However, if a woman is divorced or
losses her husband to death, she must have her sealing broken before being
allowed to be sealed to another. Therefore, men in the Church TODAY can be
sealed to multiple wives. Women cannot. It is clear that the doctrine was and is
eternal. Not just an odd, outdated, pioneer experiment.
If you are unaware of this then sit down and speak to your stake president who, if honest, will educate you a bit. Just yesturday I spoke to a friend who, after years in the Church, had no idea Joseph Smith had multiple wives so your ignorance among members is not at all a surprise to me.
If you are unaware of this then sit down and speak to your stake president who, if honest, will educate you a bit. Just yesturday I spoke to a friend who, after years in the Church, had no idea Joseph Smith had multiple wives so your ignorance among members is not at all a surprise to me.
Abe | 1:15 p.m. April 10, 2008
OK, I�ve seen all the aerial photos.
I�ve read the facts. It�s only a few
years old and it�s 1700 acres. It�s
in a rural area outside of a small west Texas town. Everything about it looks
nice. Beautiful log homes (big ones) that are likely dorms. A gleaming temple
that looks like it should be in a completely different place than the Texas
scrub brush. Lots of vehicles. Lots of equipment. A dairy. A quarry. Heavy
equipment for operating a quarry. A sewage plant. A concrete plant. Farmland
or at least really big gardens.
All of this takes money. LOTS of money. These aren�t run down doublewides in West Virginia. So where does all that money come from? What business enterprise produces the necessary revenue stream to support this apparently first rate nicely appointed �town� out in the middle of nowhere? Do they sell stone products from the quarry? They don�t get much money selling vegetables at a roadside stand, and I don�t think they commute to jobs in any Texas towns or cities, so what is the revenue source?
All of this takes money. LOTS of money. These aren�t run down doublewides in West Virginia. So where does all that money come from? What business enterprise produces the necessary revenue stream to support this apparently first rate nicely appointed �town� out in the middle of nowhere? Do they sell stone products from the quarry? They don�t get much money selling vegetables at a roadside stand, and I don�t think they commute to jobs in any Texas towns or cities, so what is the revenue source?
Bob Jones | 1:30 p.m. April 10, 2008
Men in the LDS church (as per the Church Handbook of Instruction) can be sealed
to more than one woman ONLY if the first wife dies (not in the case of divorce).
If they are divorced, they must have a temple cancellation before the man can be
sealed to a new woman. If a woman's husband dies and she remarries, she may
also be sealed to both men, after she dies.
Cougarboi | 1:26 p.m. April 10, 2008
The news media is unreliable. Period.
It's a Sensational Shocker Story about teenage girls being forced into "spiritual" marriage and reproduction for pedophilic polygamist pleasure.
That's just nauseating. But, is it true? Is it really true?
Most news reporters and their employers will say anything to make people look and read and eat it all up. And Americans at large are gluttons for whatever garbage is on the front page. Things really are rarely as great or as horrible as they seem.
By my standards polygamy is wrong but not as wrong as unmarried or multiple partners for the sake of sex. To the credit of the FLDS at large there actually seems to be a high responsibility displayed by the partners for each other and the offspring. Misguided by my standards for my reasons but far from perversion portrayed by the media.
Polygamy is illegal on the books and in many places so is fornication, adultry, sodomy, homosexuality--remnants of our moral heritage. The results of polygamy are far better than the results of pervasive promiscuity in our society today. In some places prostitution is actually legal. If you are going to legislate morality let's keep the playing field level.
It's a Sensational Shocker Story about teenage girls being forced into "spiritual" marriage and reproduction for pedophilic polygamist pleasure.
That's just nauseating. But, is it true? Is it really true?
Most news reporters and their employers will say anything to make people look and read and eat it all up. And Americans at large are gluttons for whatever garbage is on the front page. Things really are rarely as great or as horrible as they seem.
By my standards polygamy is wrong but not as wrong as unmarried or multiple partners for the sake of sex. To the credit of the FLDS at large there actually seems to be a high responsibility displayed by the partners for each other and the offspring. Misguided by my standards for my reasons but far from perversion portrayed by the media.
Polygamy is illegal on the books and in many places so is fornication, adultry, sodomy, homosexuality--remnants of our moral heritage. The results of polygamy are far better than the results of pervasive promiscuity in our society today. In some places prostitution is actually legal. If you are going to legislate morality let's keep the playing field level.
Danny Haszard | 1:32 p.m. April 10, 2008
The Jehovah's Witnesses have settled lawsuits alleging church policies
protected men who sexually abused children for many years.
Frederick McLean is one of the most-wanted fugitives in the United States
Frederick McLean is one of the most-wanted fugitives in the United States
eric | 1:34 p.m. April 10, 2008
the state of texas finds a bed in the temple? wow! i guess this is big threat
to national security.state of texas it is about your brain, oh never mind! eric
the reason | 1:38 p.m. April 10, 2008
Utah has turned it's back on Colorado city despite all the evidence of
child sexual abuse and welfare fraud, is because the big house up north (the
church office building, not the capitol)isn't ready to give up on D&C
132
Utah should pay very close attention to how they do things in Texas, someday we might have an Attorney General with some guts
Utah should pay very close attention to how they do things in Texas, someday we might have an Attorney General with some guts
Math Question | 1:45 p.m. April 10, 2008
Here is a math question for you. It says the girl who called had an 8 month old
baby and was pregnant?!?! That doesn't add up to me. I know about all the
variables, so spare me. My question is, doesn't that immediately raise
questions of authenticity when you here that? I would trust her if she claimed
it on the phone, but I would like to see it verified.
Former Detective | 2:15 p.m. April 10, 2008
For what it is worth, I was a detective for many years... I am quite certain law
enforcement in this case has much more information and evidence than what they
have given the media. Add that to the way the media interprets what they are
given by law enforcement and we only get small pieces of thet truth. In all my
years as a detective, those stories which made it into the media were never more
than half accurate. Even through the court process, if it gets that far, we may
never know the complete story. I hope some good comes from what has already
happened...
re Math Question | 2:17 p.m. April 10, 2008
hey genius;
a mother could have an eight month old baby and be one to six months pregnant.
is it the second grade math or the sixth grade biology that stumps you?
a mother could have an eight month old baby and be one to six months pregnant.
is it the second grade math or the sixth grade biology that stumps you?
RE: Math Question | 2:16 p.m. April 10, 2008
There is no reason that you can't be pregnant when you have an 8 month old.
She didn't say that she had two children 8 months apart. She may be only
a few months along anyways. I'm not even sure why you are confused about
that???
re: math question | 2:29 p.m. April 10, 2008
How does it not add up? A woman can get pregnant within weeks of having a
child. My parents (accidentally) conceived within 2 months of having my older
brother. Consequently, he and I are the same age for 10 days. It's VERY
possible to have an 8 month old baby and be currently pregnant.
bhparkman | 2:36 p.m. April 10, 2008
Texas had to act on this.
Anyone who studied these groups knows that they're very secluded by choice. I'm fine with that if they wanted a quiet, peaceful life. But these guys are inbreeding and expecting us through the USDA and other welfare offices to support their poor decisions.
I agree it's not my business or our government's how folks run their families. It is my business now, however, since my family's coffers were drained to support their lifestyle choices. Since Texas had the evidence to move forward on this, then I hope Texas is willing to take full authority of the situation fiscally.
I'm willing to help out where I can. Maybe bring in some children through fostering - perhaps adoption if the situation arises. A few more for our posterity is always a good thing. Especially in this circumstance.
Since our confiscated taxes had gone to supporting these kids and their parents are... well it's obvious. We might as well just support these kids legitimately and openly.
How many out there are willing to do this? I am.
Anyone who studied these groups knows that they're very secluded by choice. I'm fine with that if they wanted a quiet, peaceful life. But these guys are inbreeding and expecting us through the USDA and other welfare offices to support their poor decisions.
I agree it's not my business or our government's how folks run their families. It is my business now, however, since my family's coffers were drained to support their lifestyle choices. Since Texas had the evidence to move forward on this, then I hope Texas is willing to take full authority of the situation fiscally.
I'm willing to help out where I can. Maybe bring in some children through fostering - perhaps adoption if the situation arises. A few more for our posterity is always a good thing. Especially in this circumstance.
Since our confiscated taxes had gone to supporting these kids and their parents are... well it's obvious. We might as well just support these kids legitimately and openly.
How many out there are willing to do this? I am.
another math question | 2:38 p.m. April 10, 2008
how many Utah Attorney Generals does it take to screw in a light bulb?
none, they would rather sit there in the dark
ba dum dum
none, they would rather sit there in the dark
ba dum dum
RP for JB | 2:38 p.m. April 10, 2008
JB: Yes, it is an issue of sexual activity with an underage minor. Even if a 15
year old girl has parental consent to marry, the marriage is not considered
legal if the male already has a wife. So, your loophole doesn't work except
in the case of a polygamist man's first wife. If the marriage isn't
legal, then sex with the minor isn't legal.
Rich | 3:14 p.m. April 10, 2008
I believe in personal and religion freedom, but I don't believe those
freecoms include forcing children into sex or "marriage." If a child
bride or a woman or anybody else wishes to leave an FLDS compound and is
prevented from doing so, that is the same thing to me as kidnapping. It reminds
me of the Russians and East Germans, who shot people attempting to go over the
Berlin wall to escape the evil empire. The persons who have ordered detentions
of the innocents in Utah, Arizona and Texas, as well as the persons enforcing
those detentions should be thrown in jail, where we as a society can keep them
from abridging the freedom of others. I only wish the state of Utah, including
the current attorney general, had the courage to do what needs to be done to
stop the polygamists from abusing their power. I applaud Texas for conducting a
well-managed and well-conceived "raid" and hope they follow the
evidence where it takes them. I'm hoping, for example, that the detectives
were intelligent enough to wear latex gloves while gathering possible DNA
evidence and that they took as evidence the bedding they found in the temple.
JD | 3:11 p.m. April 10, 2008
The real issue hear is NOT the polygamy issue, it is the constitutional issue.
It is the fact that our Government is out of control. No longer is the government in fear of its master (us), rather we live in fear of the government.
For you LDS people on this thread, what happens if your prophet comes out with polygamy again. Do you want your homosexualized government to take away your children because they say that it is not a healthy environment for them to grow up in?
The issue is the constitution, God created it for us to follow it and work within its frame work. We can not set it aside and hope to remain free!
It is the fact that our Government is out of control. No longer is the government in fear of its master (us), rather we live in fear of the government.
For you LDS people on this thread, what happens if your prophet comes out with polygamy again. Do you want your homosexualized government to take away your children because they say that it is not a healthy environment for them to grow up in?
The issue is the constitution, God created it for us to follow it and work within its frame work. We can not set it aside and hope to remain free!
Beds are for sleeping | 3:15 p.m. April 10, 2008
For all we know, the bed were for the temple workers to SLEEP on!
Wait a minute that is not as exciting. When you investigate somthing looking for the bad, your imagination will show you a lot of bad.
This propaganda is sick.
The solution is simple read the CONSTITUTION and follow it.
Wait a minute that is not as exciting. When you investigate somthing looking for the bad, your imagination will show you a lot of bad.
This propaganda is sick.
The solution is simple read the CONSTITUTION and follow it.
Honest answers | 3:18 p.m. April 10, 2008
Polygyny (Polygamy) was not introduced by Joseph Smith, restored to be accurate.
Actually only 20% of societies today do not recognize it. But that 20% has a
great deal of a form of polygyny called affairs (secretly supporting significant
others behind wives backs).
Smith used the bible as a way of supporting its virtue. So if the bible is true, it at least was a godly principle.
The BoM states quite clearly that plural marriage is the exception not the standard.
The practice was never mandatory and most members did not practice it.
The church seems to feel that distancing its self from something so poorly thought of is the right way to go. Why focus on something not required.
All pioneers are revered in the church, especially those women who sacrificed so much.
The united order is hardly ever discussed any more either. It was once as significant as plural marriage but has now given way to more common practices.
The FLDS church has made plural marriage its main focus. The LDS church never did.
The church could practice this principle legally in 80 % of the world�s societies yet it does not.
Polygyny from Wikipedia
Smith used the bible as a way of supporting its virtue. So if the bible is true, it at least was a godly principle.
The BoM states quite clearly that plural marriage is the exception not the standard.
The practice was never mandatory and most members did not practice it.
The church seems to feel that distancing its self from something so poorly thought of is the right way to go. Why focus on something not required.
All pioneers are revered in the church, especially those women who sacrificed so much.
The united order is hardly ever discussed any more either. It was once as significant as plural marriage but has now given way to more common practices.
The FLDS church has made plural marriage its main focus. The LDS church never did.
The church could practice this principle legally in 80 % of the world�s societies yet it does not.
Polygyny from Wikipedia
isis | 3:49 p.m. April 10, 2008
This is just the tip of the iceburg. The real problem here is that all
religions give men respect based on nothing but their sex rather on their moral
integrity or ethical values. Equal rights for women would mean that men can no
longer abuse women...now what man wants that? Prophets and priests alike,
historically and today, they all rape and abuse women and children as if they
have a god given right, and then they lie about it.
There is a way to stop this insanity. It's long past time for religions to lose their exemption from paying income tax on their blood money, it's sickening that their financial gains are bought at the expense of women and children.
There is a way to stop this insanity. It's long past time for religions to lose their exemption from paying income tax on their blood money, it's sickening that their financial gains are bought at the expense of women and children.
Anonymous | 3:44 p.m. April 10, 2008
Those thinking Utah and Arizona have missed by not doing what Texas is doing
should research the Short Creek Raid of July 26, 1953. Public opinion is a very
difficult thing to judge.
Police records | 3:45 p.m. April 10, 2008
A big lie to be used in court
m | 3:51 p.m. April 10, 2008
To BT,
You talk about "legal marriages" with parental concent. I don't think many of the marriages in the compound are legal marriages, because it is not legal to be married to more than one woman at a time. I have heard the term "spiritually married" a lot, my guess these are not "legal" marriages although they were most likely by parental concent none the less.
To Speaking of law of the land,
I know that Polygamy still exists in Utah but not amoung practicing Mormons.
You talk about "legal marriages" with parental concent. I don't think many of the marriages in the compound are legal marriages, because it is not legal to be married to more than one woman at a time. I have heard the term "spiritually married" a lot, my guess these are not "legal" marriages although they were most likely by parental concent none the less.
To Speaking of law of the land,
I know that Polygamy still exists in Utah but not amoung practicing Mormons.
WithAllDUETolerance | 4:21 p.m. April 10, 2008
At its best, the state protects human rights and religious freedom. BUT, any
creep can say "I'm founding a religion and now I'm the
prophet." Should we tolerate any and all acts just because some sociopath
and his followers suffer from delusions of being chosen by God?? No, we
shouldn't, and I say good work, Texas, for intervening without a Waco-style
tragedy. Polygamy is not the state�s business, and people
should be able to believe and do whatever they want without state intervention,
IF it doesn't violate other people's human rights. In the US, all
people have the right to come and go without armed guards keeping them in their
home. All children have the right to an education and to be protected from
violence and sexual exploitation. Boys have the right to NOT be raised to be
sexual perpetrators. It's not Texas's fault that FLDS people are
churning out tons of kids and then abusing them. Texas didn't create the
problem. It's just stuck with trying to solve it as best it can. With 401
children in custody, Texas has a big old mess on it's hands, but still it
was the right thing to do.
Liz | 4:28 p.m. April 10, 2008
Let's just call it what it is. A convienent way for pedophiles to get what
they want by hiding behind religion. Are human rights considered? No! This is a
'church' ( and I use that word losely) controled by middle aged men,
who brainwash very young girls to think it's okay to be molested. If a man
wants a harem,the harem should be women, not girls.
Anonymous | 4:29 p.m. April 10, 2008
Isis, what does paying taxes on blood money accomplish? Our leaders (women
included) in politics are just as sex crazy.
Lumping all prophets and church leaders in such a stigma is just harsh.
I�ve seen women do just as much damage to men using there own special kind of like weapons.
The answer isn�t making churches pay taxes, its society making the right choices. I agree that the moral rights and wrongs of our world are messed up.
I�ve been reading a lot lately how women are using teenage boys the same way men use women. They are finding satisfaction in running the relationship, being in charge.
I find it�s my religion that keeps my morals straight.
If I looked to any other source, I would be as you describe.
James Bond is not a religious figure. Yet this is the image society portrays for me to follow. Only now the Bond girls are just as bad as Bond.
Lumping all prophets and church leaders in such a stigma is just harsh.
I�ve seen women do just as much damage to men using there own special kind of like weapons.
The answer isn�t making churches pay taxes, its society making the right choices. I agree that the moral rights and wrongs of our world are messed up.
I�ve been reading a lot lately how women are using teenage boys the same way men use women. They are finding satisfaction in running the relationship, being in charge.
I find it�s my religion that keeps my morals straight.
If I looked to any other source, I would be as you describe.
James Bond is not a religious figure. Yet this is the image society portrays for me to follow. Only now the Bond girls are just as bad as Bond.
Re: m | 3:51 p.m. | 4:30 p.m. April 10, 2008
"I know that Polygamy still exists in Utah but not among practicing
Mormons."
You have never been more wrong my friend!
There are plenty of practicing mormons in polygamist replationships. Visit Utah County sometime.
You have never been more wrong my friend!
There are plenty of practicing mormons in polygamist replationships. Visit Utah County sometime.
Anonymous | 4:47 p.m. April 10, 2008
"The real issue hear (sic) is NOT the polygamy issue, it is the
constitutional issue."
I'd say those are both issues. So is increasing severe disability that results from inbreeding and leaves victims in a vegetative state. So is children being deprived of an education so they are easy to control. So is pedophillia. And neglect. And abuse.
No one said this was simple. But turning your back on it and letting those dependent people continue to be used as sex and manual slaves was NOT the answer. NOT in TX and NOT in UT or AZ either.
I'd say those are both issues. So is increasing severe disability that results from inbreeding and leaves victims in a vegetative state. So is children being deprived of an education so they are easy to control. So is pedophillia. And neglect. And abuse.
No one said this was simple. But turning your back on it and letting those dependent people continue to be used as sex and manual slaves was NOT the answer. NOT in TX and NOT in UT or AZ either.
justanobody | 5:04 p.m. April 10, 2008
Mormonism - Joe Smith restoring Old and New Testament traditions; plural
marriage being one of these customs.
Didn't Smith regard polygamy a necessary prerequisite for complete salvation?
Utah became a state in 1896 after the Mormon church agreed to end plural marriages. Another restoration?
Don't present-day Mormons expect to be polygamist in the 'next life'?
Can't Mormons see the reason many of us are so darn confused?
I feel so very sorry for the women, children, and the young men of the FLDS. It is an ugly situation if much of the news is true.
I am sure that many adult FLDS in turn would say they feel sorry for me.
I AM confused!! I hope God isn't!
Didn't Smith regard polygamy a necessary prerequisite for complete salvation?
Utah became a state in 1896 after the Mormon church agreed to end plural marriages. Another restoration?
Don't present-day Mormons expect to be polygamist in the 'next life'?
Can't Mormons see the reason many of us are so darn confused?
I feel so very sorry for the women, children, and the young men of the FLDS. It is an ugly situation if much of the news is true.
I am sure that many adult FLDS in turn would say they feel sorry for me.
I AM confused!! I hope God isn't!
Rich | 5:10 p.m. April 10, 2008
Perhaps BATF should comb thru a few so-called "mainstream" temples for
secret chambers, given the support we see for the FDLS miscreants among the
faithful here...
Yikes | 5:45 p.m. April 10, 2008
What a bunch of psychos. What a terrible, terrible thing to read. I'm very
upset.
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