A recent congressional report stated that 9% of children in public school will be sexual assaulted or harassed by a school employee between K-12th grade. Why don't authorities empty out the schools when a teacher is found to have been doing this under the noses of the administrators and other teachers. Obviously that would be over-reaching. This Texas action is unprecedented but will it have legal merit. Have they ever found the alleged victim?

Would all you whinies just stop whining and pretend your 16 and pregnant and abused?

Texas' response may be larger than anything Utah has ever had to muster.
Is that because we don't have the problem in Utah, or are ignoring it?

Bella mia

"Have they ever found the alleged victim? "

I understand they have found lots of victims - pregnant children and children with babies.

Want to see pictures?

FOR SALE:

Small town in Texas. Complete with large church.

Multiple tumble weeds blowing through town on windy days.

In my stake gets abused, calls in (and no one can find her, or id her) and the police come at stake conference and rip all the kids out loving homes and arms. It's about the same amount.

If abuse is happening, proscute THOSE case. Don't punnish everyone, because of the actions of a few. You won't come get my kids, because the guy down the street abused a kid. I hope the USSC weighs in on this one REAL quick.

And for those who think Utah turns a blind eye? Think "Kingston" last year. When abuse is happening, the kids are removed. But not all polygamous relationships are abusive.

Texas did what Utah and Arizona should have had the courage to do years ago. The abuses of young women forced to marry against their will at any age is an outrage.

being pregnant does not equate being a victim. being a child doesn't make you a victim either. about seventeen or so years ago Texas had a big rally on the lawns of it's capital. homeschoolers were rallying for the right to be homeschooling. many had been rounded up and taken by CPS previous to that time. texas has a fear mentality.

Hey Jonson, what is your definition 'children'? Given that more than half of US 'teenagers' are sexually active, where does the general population get off being indigent that this group at least has their sexually active teenagers getting married first. Are parents that allow their 16 year old daughter to have had 5, 6, or more sexual partners 'better' parents than those that allow their daughter to be married to an older man? I don't see what sound reasoning would support that, even though I think both are wrong.

So far as I've read, this all still came about due to a false report of abuse of a non-existent 16 year old by a man that wasn't even in Texas at the time. Maybe the final facts will be different, but right now it sure looks like Texas acted on false information and is guilt of hypocrisy and violating these people's constitutional rights.

Anyone ever hear of the term "habeas corpus?" What it means in simplified english is, "produce the body." Produce the evidence or back off until you can. Texas complains that they have insufficient means to deal with the 416 children taken into CPS custody. Maybe it's because they have way overstepped their constitutional authority without due process. That one or some of the children may have been neglected or abused is a distinct possibility, but blanket police action without habeas corpus is a 4th amendment violation. The dislike of polygamy, of itself does not give a government entity the right to infringe on the constitutional right against illegal search and seizure.

This case is an unprecedented outrage. Those folks have been found guilty by association and in the end that will NOT hold up in court. Such a clear blatant flagrant violation of human rights is taking place there in the great state of Texas and history will show it to ba a stain on law enforcement as short creek is here in Utah. I wonder how this case would be viewed if it were taking place in China or Tibet??
I also wonder how many constitutional attorneys have offered to contribute to this case pro bono. I hope there are many. From my far off vantage point it is so obviously a clear cut case. The Supreme court will end up declining to hear this case I suspect.

Matthew
All those teens that you are talking about, having 5, 6, or more sexual partners are having sex with THE PEOPLE THEY CHOOSE. Are you saying that it is better to force your daughter or allow her to be forced to marry a man old enough to be her father or grandfather. That is sick and abusive.
Also, you do not know that the 16 year old that started all this gave a false report or not.
I thank God that I am from Texas. Dont know where you are from but glad me and my daughter are not there.

Does it concern anyone else that one persons opinion of another persons actions seems to be good enough reason to enforce that opinion by law?
I hate smoking (not smokers). Do I have the right to bar them from smoking? I fear people who abuse firearms. Do I have the right to ban guns? I don't like hateful words. Do I have the right to prevent you from speaking? I don't like your religion. Do I have the right to prevent you from believing? At some point, your disapproving finger may point at me. who will stand up for my rights then?? I don't approve of polygamy, but that gives me no right to bypass a polygamist's right to constitutional acess!

Some of you are unbelievable!! THINK ABOUT IT!

These are children whom are being raised and taught that this is not only the norm, but the expected!

Let's just pretend that a similar situation DID occur in your stake. So..., numerous members of the law show up and, upon seeing several young girls in the same area pregnant, begin an investigation. THEN the real facts emerge: 1. All children (male and female)in your stake are being raised to believe this is the way life should be, and 2. They are also being told that if they seek outside help horrible, and possibly worse, things will happen to them. Hello?? Doesn't that put a little more urgency in the situation? The very reason this would not occur in our stakes is because IT DOES NOT occur in our stakes! There are sickos in every religion, but this was a town of them! THIS is their religion!

No one could raise their child to believe that murder or robbery was o.k. and justified, and not have the law intervene, on behalf of the child, in the name of abuse. And thank heaven they do! Otherwise, consider the alternative!!!!

THINK ABOUT IT!!

Your story of CPS taking homeschooled children has no basis. CPS takes children on the basis of abuse and yes some parents who homeschool their children, just like regular parents do abuse them.

Get the subject in the right place for pete's sake.

To ediddy:
We're bring the 416 children to live with you, NOW. Put up or shut up. They weren't taken because of polygamy, the charge was ABUSE or can't you read and understand. Trust me they have many "bodies". Due process was observed. You have no grounds for saying it wasn't.

Texans act, non-mo's whine.

Take a minute and read the report on druge, the 16 year old story has huge gaps in it. "i am the seventh wife" see page 3 " has 3 other wives". Maybe someone who hates these groups set up law enforcement.

I am not in favor of mess round up except for cattle. Do we have rights of not, I won't be moving to Texas anytime soon.

Children locked in closets? 13 and 14 year olds forced into sexual relationships. This is a religion? If you want to talk "constitutional rights" aks yourself if these young women are free. Are they free to choose their spouse? Are they free to leave the compound? Are they free to leave a locked closet? Are they free to protect their own viginity?
I guess there would be medical evidence of her broken ribs and that would be a good start for the body of evidence surmounting against these sect "leaders." There are no constitutional rights that protect slavery and human bondage.

I agree with ediddy,janet, and dave. This is a very "slippery slope' what the authorities did in Texas.This is guilt by association.How long will these children be kept by the state? What about the adult women? Will the state keep thier children from thier mother if she chooses to return to the compound? If these men did what is alleged,bring them to justice. Otherwise, release them.

Many have stated on this forum over the past few months that sex offenders have no constitutional rights, at least, from the posts that I have read.

In fact, many have posted that those who have been accused of sex abuse of a child should undergo certain medical procedures, including death, without having the person be convicted.

Allow the investigation to run it's course before you convict and sentence, least you be just as guilty.

If you want security and protection from such things how much freedom are you willing to give up? The only way to have total security is to totally give up your freedoms.

Actually the story says 3 other wives LIVING in the same house - not that there are just 3 other wives.

FLDS, guilty until proven innocent.

Washington county look what you have started. Once I am done with college I am out of this state.

to DeLaval Milker and others who are curious. I think the major difference between what Texas is doing and what Utah has done is based on the law. In Texas, the place they are living is privately owned land. The judge only had to sign a search warant for one property, from which the call came. I highly doubt that there would be a Judge in this country that would sign a search warant for an entire city based on a signle call from one home. The logisitics of how things are set up in Texas versus Utah and Arizona are completely different.

Of course there are other things that need to be fixed (abuse in schools, other homes etc.), but that doesn't mean that we (or Texas) should ignore complaints about a group. This particular group has had many problems with abuse and we shouldn't turn their back on them because this is part of their "religion". If a religion or belief takes the rights away of others such as women, young girls or children then it will be investigated. The rights of children supercede any so-called religious belief. This belief sounds very convenient for child offenders to me!

Incest and statutory rape should not be authorized by a religious ideology. The Texas authorities did what was right and moral. The states of Utah and Arizona should be ashamed for sweeping this stuff under the rug.

I agree TOLALLY with anonymous 11:29am

They created this problem
Don't volenteer to help
Let them cope with the problem they caused
Maybe they will learn a lesson
Watch where you step

My question is, if polygamy itself is illegal and we have know about these colonies for years... why have we done nothing about it? Regardless of all the other details, just the mere fact that have multiple wives is illegal in this country should be reason enough to arrest these men.

Don't bother to come to Texas. No closed minds needed.

You have no clue but have made your mind up.

I hope there is a thorough investigation of the Texas DFS to learn if there were any religious motivations involved.

I agree EVERY rape allegation should be investigated and every child that is at risk should be protected, but we also have a constitution that establishes people can not be targetted because the State doesn't agree with thier religious beliefs.

If protecting children from sexual abuse was the only motivation... in the affidavit there is no accusation of any abuse to anyone under the age of 14... Why remove ALL children, even one month old? Is an infant in imminent danger of being raped? I suspect the real intent is... protection from religious endoctrination (if so that's NOT the State's job).

If Texas has decided they can intervene and remove children because the religious teaching they are receiving is not in line with their beliefs... They are in the wrong.

Even children have a right to choose their religion. If they want to stay with their FLDS parents we don't have the right to take them away and teach them what the state believes is correct. That's exactly what the Constitution was meant to prevent States from doing.

These cases should be looked at on an individual basis. If there is no abuse in a home then the children of that home should not be taken away. Besides the ones being abused my guess is that the rest of these families are happy.

I want to see the state of Texas seize the property and all the assets of this polygamist organization in order to provide a safety net for all of the woman and children that are victims of this terrible mess. It is morally incomprehensible to allow young women at the tender age of 12 to 16 to become victims of statutory rape and incest.

After first reading about this outrage (FLDS) years ago, I was appalled to see it land in my state. Today, I'm very proud that Texas has the courage to do what Utah, Arizona, and British Columbia (and South Dakota, for that matter) allowed to go on. Those who commit these offenses against girls are guilty, but those who allow it to go on are culpable.

I hope so too... that there is a thorough investigation to determine if any of the children have been abused. The parentage of each child of every underage girl should be established (by DNA evidence, if necessary) and the fathers of those children should be prosecuted for statutory rape.

These children have been so indoctrinated, that many of them may choose not to cooperate with the investigation.

There seems to be ample evidence to suspect child abuse. There is no evidence that the action of Texas authorities is based on religious grounds. Just speculation.

Brainwashed women and children in a cult. Isolated from any other opinions that vary from what they are spoon fed each day.

Shame on the FLDS, shame on Texas, Utah and Arizona for not taking steps years ago to stop this.

Life repeats itself, today in the 21st century.

Man's inhumanity to man continues...

I agree with your suggestion to use DNA testing to establish parentage of those who are underage and pregnant. Charges should be brought in all those cases, the rest should be cleared and returned to their homes.

You seem to be very close to the investigation... Do you know how many of the women in holding are underage and pregnant? I think you would find it is a VERY small percentage (about the same as some inner-city communities in Huston).

The media paints the picture that all FLDS women are underage and pregnant (not true). The media also leads you to believe all the fathers are old men. Truth is... they are not.

If you look into it (facts, not rumors), I think you would find that most of this children were born to mature women who love their spouse and their church. So where is it Texas' right to hold ALL the women and children in this community against their will?

I agree with ridiculous - practicing polygamy is grounds for being arrested, regardless of whether or not abuse is involved. Texas messed up big time when law enforcement allowed people to engage in polygamy without being prosecuted, as have Utah, Arizona and Colorado. As a result, children have been and are suffering. Men and women should have been arrested a long time ago and the law should have been upheld. It seems to me that Texas is now trying to make up for its negligence, but I think they are unprepared to deal with the consequences of past and present decisions.

I agree with Mike and others on here. There needs to be a big investigations on polygamy, it must NOT stop here. I'm certain there is more to the story than what is being told.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Now we're challenging a system that has a 47-62% failure rate of first time foster homes...and we're asking for more? On another note - when are we going to see a seperation of church from state and prosecute those who commit crimes and then hide under the organized religious cloak to the fullest extent of our laws?

As a foster parent in Hawaii, I sympathise totally with the foster parents and social workers in Texas. It's often difficult to place a child in foster care (matching child and foster parents, even finding room!).Trying to set up the basics for this many kids is a staggering task. If they are to be in foster care for any length of time, they will need to verify (or have new) TB tests, vaccinations, dental appointments, and medical checkups. They will need to be enrolled in public schools. Any learning shortfalls or disabilities need to be diagnosed and addressed. It's a lot of work for one or kids at a time...for 416? Some of the kids have apparently been trained not to cooperate with authorities...we see that in some of our kids. It'll take time for the foster parents to win their trust. In all, a daunting task.

ok, polygamy is illegal, we all know that. but that's if someone marries someone else in a court of law while married to someone else. there is no law that says you can't be married to someone and have sex with a bunch of other people, is there? since when was 'spiritual marriage' legally married? the closest i can think of is cohabitation, and that's not illegal.

I am a psychiatrist (MD) in the Dallas area and find the Deseret News response to this situation interesting to say the least. In reality, the Texas CPS has an outstanding reputation for integrity throughout the U.S. In this particular case, the childrens' rights were protected, not abused. Wait until the facts are known before passing critical judgment. There is much more in the way of probable cause than the phone call from the 16 year old girl. The evidentiary basis for the search warrants was specific and substantive. Please allow the system to work (and it will).

These are not legal marriages. They are "Spritual" marriages. That means that these couples are shacking up in the eyes of the law, just like a very high percent of everyone else. That makes it very hard to prosecute unless there is the sexual abuse of a child (defined differently in every state). If they arrest a polig who is shacked up with 10 legal aged women they would have to arrest every other shack up couple in the state.

I like your confidence in the system.

I think what you're seeing in this discussion is just our attraction to trying everything in the court of public opinion and the media. Of course we don't know all the evidence they have. And they shouldn't have to share all their evidence with us just to satisfy our curiosity. But by nature some of us doubt the system when they say, "Trust us we have evidence we can't tell you about".

Not all shack up couples produce children on a roller belt. These polygamist men are also enslaving these woman from birth to puberty for their own sexual purposes. They have taken from these woman their own free will to think and do for themselves. They are born into slavery. It much different then the malarkey you are speaking of.

There is something wrong when you live in a place where you can't leave, or if you leave you feel condemned by God. That's a prison!
Dress modest, do not cut your hair, but 'be sweet' if your father, uncle or brother No.40 comes at night to rape you. Shut up, be sweet, produce babies...
It's wrong. To deny a child a full education is wrong.
To waterboard them from keeping them crying is wrong.
Yes, 16 year olds have babies all over the world, but rarely are they forced to have them. I watch all this with great sadness, for those kids and mothers are going to have a hard time ahead of them, if they choose to stay on the outside or returning to all they have ever known. Sometimes it's easier to stick with what you know, than fearing the unknown.I hope the State of Texas has professional de-programmers on their staff and let the underage mothers keep their babies if they are put into foster homes.

Spiritual marriages???....GIVE ME A BREAK! WHEN IS SEX ABUSE EVER SPIRITUAL?

Go get'em Texas Rangers,and thank you. Maybe after you guys clean up your state,other states will follow your fine example. This, after all, is the United States,we live by laws we the people made. These people seem to be above them all. Hopefully some of the boys that were outcast will come forth with more information.

Introduce the liberated families to the world of homosexuality, allow the children to be adobted by gay and lesbians. Let them watch murder day in and day out on TV. Let them be exposed to pornography. Let them be well rounded citizens so they fit in much better with the other world. Don't teach them about consending adult issues. These people or authorities in Texas are like the politicians that come out of Texas they never learn to tell the truth and they make lots of money that way.