Reader comments: LDS Church leaders encourage young women to listen to Holy Spirit
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Adam | 9:43 a.m. March 30, 2008
lovesaltlake,
I appreciate your post. I am in an identical situation. I am LDS, but my wife is Catholic. We live in a highly LDS Utah neighborhood.
1. My daughter couldn't attend YW activities because of soccer, so she was ostracized and treated like she was a bad person by the "righteous" girls in the ward. Their "friendship" was contingent on Church acticity. This dramatically impacted her self esteem.
2. She was perfectly obedient until being taught at seminary that a person needs to be willing to disobey father and mother for the Church, and that the Catholic Church is apostate. She began rebelling against her Catholic mother and then me.
3. Because she was ostracized by the other LDS kids, she had no friends except the rough kids. So she got involved with drugs.
4. Soon, she was skipping school - partly to avoid the condemnation of the "righteous" LDS kids who lorded their "activity" over others, and partly to hang out with the only friends she had: druggies.
5. Her attitude toward her family and school changed almost overnight. Grades dropped from 3.9 GPA to failing/truancy.
Why do the Church youth treat people this way?
I appreciate your post. I am in an identical situation. I am LDS, but my wife is Catholic. We live in a highly LDS Utah neighborhood.
1. My daughter couldn't attend YW activities because of soccer, so she was ostracized and treated like she was a bad person by the "righteous" girls in the ward. Their "friendship" was contingent on Church acticity. This dramatically impacted her self esteem.
2. She was perfectly obedient until being taught at seminary that a person needs to be willing to disobey father and mother for the Church, and that the Catholic Church is apostate. She began rebelling against her Catholic mother and then me.
3. Because she was ostracized by the other LDS kids, she had no friends except the rough kids. So she got involved with drugs.
4. Soon, she was skipping school - partly to avoid the condemnation of the "righteous" LDS kids who lorded their "activity" over others, and partly to hang out with the only friends she had: druggies.
5. Her attitude toward her family and school changed almost overnight. Grades dropped from 3.9 GPA to failing/truancy.
Why do the Church youth treat people this way?
Dear Adam | 2:48 p.m. March 30, 2008
My heart aches for you and your family.
Unfortunately, paraphrasing the scriptures, the Gospel is true, but sometimes the people aren't.
I am constantly trying to help my daughters (one of whom is inactive) understand that everyone is dealing with problems -- the other night the thought came to mind that if we could see it, we would see every member of our ward with some worry or problem weighing them down.
Does that make it right to ostracize someone? No, never -- see what the Savior taught in 3 Nephi, that all are welcome.
But teenagers are still learning to cope with hormones, interests, peer pressure.... Much of what they do is the result of trying to find themselves, too. It is very hard to forgive those who persecute us, especially when we are teenagers, too.
May you be blessed as you continue to pray for those who persecute & despitefully use your daughter, and for your daughter as well!
Unfortunately, paraphrasing the scriptures, the Gospel is true, but sometimes the people aren't.
I am constantly trying to help my daughters (one of whom is inactive) understand that everyone is dealing with problems -- the other night the thought came to mind that if we could see it, we would see every member of our ward with some worry or problem weighing them down.
Does that make it right to ostracize someone? No, never -- see what the Savior taught in 3 Nephi, that all are welcome.
But teenagers are still learning to cope with hormones, interests, peer pressure.... Much of what they do is the result of trying to find themselves, too. It is very hard to forgive those who persecute us, especially when we are teenagers, too.
May you be blessed as you continue to pray for those who persecute & despitefully use your daughter, and for your daughter as well!
Comments continue below
Adam | 5:01 p.m. March 30, 2008
To the person who posted such heartfelt sentiments:
Thank you. I wish things were otherwise than they are.
Unfortunately, the spiritual damage ripples outward.
My wife has been devastated by this. She has become extremely bitter. Of course, we have heard many people say “The Church is True, but sometimes the people aren’t” – to which she responds, “Didn’t Jesus say you could tell the truth of a Church by its fruits?”
Well, I just hurt. I don’t know to whom to turn. Thank you for your thoughts, anyway. God bless you.
Thank you. I wish things were otherwise than they are.
Unfortunately, the spiritual damage ripples outward.
My wife has been devastated by this. She has become extremely bitter. Of course, we have heard many people say “The Church is True, but sometimes the people aren’t” – to which she responds, “Didn’t Jesus say you could tell the truth of a Church by its fruits?”
Well, I just hurt. I don’t know to whom to turn. Thank you for your thoughts, anyway. God bless you.
for Adam, and more | 5:45 a.m. March 31, 2008
We've lived in 7 states, and seen similar things wherever there is any kind of majority, be it Evangelicals, Catholics, or Bible-belt generic Christians. It's not just Utah and not just LDS.
Whenever any group is trying to live a higher standard, some individuals and some cliques always get hung up on outward appearances and 'show'.
It's human nature, especially if there is relative wealth and ease in the neighborhood, then these social issues become important to some.
When we lived where LDS were a small minority -most of the U.S.- the youth valued the gospel, lived it, were good examples almost all the time.
Our son dated a Utah girl for a long time, who had been ostracized by her peers. She changed wards and neighborhoods, and started over, to find friends and leaders who treated her the way the Church teaches (like the leaders at YW Conf).
And that's the point. Get out of the neighborhood if social issues are currently overpowering eternal values. If you focus on the messages of the YW program, even just the ones mentioned in the article, you will get the healthy perspective back.
Love,
A friend
Whenever any group is trying to live a higher standard, some individuals and some cliques always get hung up on outward appearances and 'show'.
It's human nature, especially if there is relative wealth and ease in the neighborhood, then these social issues become important to some.
When we lived where LDS were a small minority -most of the U.S.- the youth valued the gospel, lived it, were good examples almost all the time.
Our son dated a Utah girl for a long time, who had been ostracized by her peers. She changed wards and neighborhoods, and started over, to find friends and leaders who treated her the way the Church teaches (like the leaders at YW Conf).
And that's the point. Get out of the neighborhood if social issues are currently overpowering eternal values. If you focus on the messages of the YW program, even just the ones mentioned in the article, you will get the healthy perspective back.
Love,
A friend
Craig | 8:18 a.m. March 31, 2008
To for Adam, and more,
I don't mean this to sound ungrateful, but your post was less than helpful. If I'm not mistaken, your advice to Adam is to just accept that this happens all over the place - well, that isn't much comfort, especially when we as LDS are supposed to be different. That is the whole point! You are saying we fail miserably at being different and we are just like everybody else!?
And then you say to just move? Is that what this has to come down to - Adam and his family being chased out of their home by self-righteous religious bigots?
Adam, I hope you find more help than that provided by ignorant people on this site. Please don't go to a newspaper comment section for advice!
God bless you and your family.
I don't mean this to sound ungrateful, but your post was less than helpful. If I'm not mistaken, your advice to Adam is to just accept that this happens all over the place - well, that isn't much comfort, especially when we as LDS are supposed to be different. That is the whole point! You are saying we fail miserably at being different and we are just like everybody else!?
And then you say to just move? Is that what this has to come down to - Adam and his family being chased out of their home by self-righteous religious bigots?
Adam, I hope you find more help than that provided by ignorant people on this site. Please don't go to a newspaper comment section for advice!
God bless you and your family.
nrly | 2:37 p.m. March 31, 2008
to all those who have had a bad experience with the youth of this wonderful and yes true church, I am so sorry, for I know how you feel, it all happened to me, and the sad thing is it is not going to stop with out the help of parents. It is up to us to teach our children right, and to do that we have to set the right example.If we say this church is wrong or that child is not dressed right in a very negative way then that is how our kids will be.Be strong do not give up, stay close to your kids, and have family prayer and family time, if they do not want to join then go into their space and have it, but please do not give up, and let us all change our attitude on how we address problems, and teach them that we are all Gods children, then maybe one day this problem will go away. I hope so and I try to live my life this way.
for Craig | 5:23 p.m. March 31, 2008
You missed the whole point. Perhaps my wording, the examples I gave?
Rather than commenting on (celebrating) the article, the early posts changed the topic to their despair over *the few* who get caught up in Lookin' Good, but don't really reach out and love their neighbors (his children).
It happens anywhere a dominant group gets lazy; and Satan rejoices.
Adam is not going to change the people whom he perceives as the problem, and *might* not be ready to replace soccer, or whatever else, with greater spiritual commitment (don't know, can't judge, nor can anyone else) so rather than stew in the bad juice, get up and get out of it. It's not about 'letting them win' -- it's about putting eternal values before worldly.
Yes, we are *supposed to* live the higher standards and many do (although some Wasatch Front members tend to just conform, without the best reasons), but don't hold your breath, nor let your (or your children's!) salvation depend on whether your neighbors are faithful.
We also endorse the thoughts expressed by "Dear Adam@2:48" and "nrly@2:37".
I pray you cannot misunderstand again.
Love,
A friend who's been there w/7 kids
Rather than commenting on (celebrating) the article, the early posts changed the topic to their despair over *the few* who get caught up in Lookin' Good, but don't really reach out and love their neighbors (his children).
It happens anywhere a dominant group gets lazy; and Satan rejoices.
Adam is not going to change the people whom he perceives as the problem, and *might* not be ready to replace soccer, or whatever else, with greater spiritual commitment (don't know, can't judge, nor can anyone else) so rather than stew in the bad juice, get up and get out of it. It's not about 'letting them win' -- it's about putting eternal values before worldly.
Yes, we are *supposed to* live the higher standards and many do (although some Wasatch Front members tend to just conform, without the best reasons), but don't hold your breath, nor let your (or your children's!) salvation depend on whether your neighbors are faithful.
We also endorse the thoughts expressed by "Dear Adam@2:48" and "nrly@2:37".
I pray you cannot misunderstand again.
Love,
A friend who's been there w/7 kids
Yes, Craig | 7:34 p.m. March 31, 2008
We figure you didn't read that comment closely.
The writer was literally answering Adam's main question, why Church youth [are imperfect].
But he/she didn't drag in the other obvious questions, how Adam expected to get 100% gospel support for his daughter after he had chosen to marry someone who will not be helping with what he says he wants (sorry, yes it hurts but is part of the reality here), nor the more obvious issue -- that her peers' behavior was only one of a dozen things that led her to drugs.
Judas was a bad example, and probably didn't reach out to the other disciples, but they didn't use that to leave Christ and the gospel. Adam has his exact justification for blame laid out and numbered!
We hope Adam, "and more", heard the counsel given, and saw the absolute radiant glow on the faces of YW singing in the Conference Saturday, and as the headline says, 'listening to the Holy Spirit'. If not, it's online to watch again.
What we saw and felt were the Savior's commandments and the spirit of truth, delivered women and men with wonderful track records of faith and integrity.
Beats soccer every time.
The writer was literally answering Adam's main question, why Church youth [are imperfect].
But he/she didn't drag in the other obvious questions, how Adam expected to get 100% gospel support for his daughter after he had chosen to marry someone who will not be helping with what he says he wants (sorry, yes it hurts but is part of the reality here), nor the more obvious issue -- that her peers' behavior was only one of a dozen things that led her to drugs.
Judas was a bad example, and probably didn't reach out to the other disciples, but they didn't use that to leave Christ and the gospel. Adam has his exact justification for blame laid out and numbered!
We hope Adam, "and more", heard the counsel given, and saw the absolute radiant glow on the faces of YW singing in the Conference Saturday, and as the headline says, 'listening to the Holy Spirit'. If not, it's online to watch again.
What we saw and felt were the Savior's commandments and the spirit of truth, delivered women and men with wonderful track records of faith and integrity.
Beats soccer every time.
Anonymous | 7:54 p.m. March 31, 2008
Unbelievable that you people would blame Adam for his daughter's problems by telling him that he married the wrong woman.
Unbelievable!
Do you people actually see how absurd you are being
Unbelievable!
Unbelievable!
Do you people actually see how absurd you are being
Unbelievable!
Anonymous | 8:49 p.m. March 31, 2008
Adam's daughter is on drugs because he married a Catholic? Are you serious?
Unbelievable? | 9:05 p.m. March 31, 2008
The Apostle Paul taught the risks of being "unequally yoked" with non-believers, and said: don't do it. (2 Corinthians 6:14)
In today's language, inter-faith marriage.
Them Bible-believing Christians are so unbelievable! Absurd! (grin?)
But you, too, are strreettcchhing what was actually said. Consider: having a mother who isn't likely to help their daughter value LDS-YW activities over soccer, isn't helping Adam with his apparent goal of LDS activity and faith for their daughter.
That's NOT "telling him that he married the wrong woman." Yet several other elements of his chain of accusation could have been eliminated if Mom was helping prevent them.
My heart aches for Adam, being in the situation now several years after the root problems were deeply grounded in his family; he is finding it hard to close the barn door after the horse got out. I just hope he (and so many others) won't keep laying the blame primarily at the feet of the neighbors. That will never get him and family toward happiness.
But, in our own family's several drug traumas, this depth of pain is usually part of what is necessary to get the players finally on the road to recovery.
In today's language, inter-faith marriage.
Them Bible-believing Christians are so unbelievable! Absurd! (grin?)
But you, too, are strreettcchhing what was actually said. Consider: having a mother who isn't likely to help their daughter value LDS-YW activities over soccer, isn't helping Adam with his apparent goal of LDS activity and faith for their daughter.
That's NOT "telling him that he married the wrong woman." Yet several other elements of his chain of accusation could have been eliminated if Mom was helping prevent them.
My heart aches for Adam, being in the situation now several years after the root problems were deeply grounded in his family; he is finding it hard to close the barn door after the horse got out. I just hope he (and so many others) won't keep laying the blame primarily at the feet of the neighbors. That will never get him and family toward happiness.
But, in our own family's several drug traumas, this depth of pain is usually part of what is necessary to get the players finally on the road to recovery.
Croydon Park | 9:12 p.m. March 31, 2008
Wow! The advice from the faithful Saints is ridiculous!
Move away. Divorce your Catholic wife. Drop soccer. You deserve to be ostracized because you married outside of the Church. Just deal with it because everybody is that way.
Oh my gosh! I cannot believe there people who actually believe this stuff!
Move away. Divorce your Catholic wife. Drop soccer. You deserve to be ostracized because you married outside of the Church. Just deal with it because everybody is that way.
Oh my gosh! I cannot believe there people who actually believe this stuff!
Carl | 9:33 p.m. March 31, 2008
Didn't you read the headline? "LDS Church leaders
encourage young women to defy their parents"
No, April Fool is tomorrow.
Some you are reading this discussion like a typical teenager listens.
Like maybe the girl in the Seminary class that supposedly heard, as if it were LDS doctrine, "that a person needs to be willing to disobey father and mother for the Church" -- a misunderstanding of what was probably said, actual LDS doctrine, that Christ taught in several places it would be necessary for some followers to leave families and possessions to follow Him. That's basic New Testament Christian gospel.
I agree with the writer of the earlier posts, go read and listen to the actual YW Conference. Many of the answers are there in just one easy place.
encourage young women to defy their parents"
No, April Fool is tomorrow.
Some you are reading this discussion like a typical teenager listens.
Like maybe the girl in the Seminary class that supposedly heard, as if it were LDS doctrine, "that a person needs to be willing to disobey father and mother for the Church" -- a misunderstanding of what was probably said, actual LDS doctrine, that Christ taught in several places it would be necessary for some followers to leave families and possessions to follow Him. That's basic New Testament Christian gospel.
I agree with the writer of the earlier posts, go read and listen to the actual YW Conference. Many of the answers are there in just one easy place.
help | 9:49 p.m. March 31, 2008
wow, maybe i'm a dumb hick,but some you utahns I guess can't read. the answers i read for Adam wereright on target. some of you must read a-b-c and se c-d-e, then come back in commnt that it was d-e-f. croydon youhold the record. read it more carfully please.
Jim | 7:37 a.m. April 1, 2008
Unequally yoked? Causes drug abuse in teens?
Some of you LDS people are VERY messed up.
God bless you, Adam. May the love of God assuage your grief and bring solace to your family in God's own time.
Some of you LDS people are VERY messed up.
God bless you, Adam. May the love of God assuage your grief and bring solace to your family in God's own time.
Johnny | 7:30 p.m. July 19, 2008
Fascinating. I being an inactive member (contemplating reactivating) find that religious points of view of all sorts are just that, "religious points of view". I guess the question I have is simple, would Christ or our Heavenly Father ever want us to turn our backs on our (earthly) family? Personally I'd have to guess no, be it they are Catholic, Mormon, Protestant, Generic Christian, Pagan, Gay, Straight, Criminal, Saint, etc. As far as certain things "causing" poor or immoral behavior, well take it from an old street punk, no one ever held a gun to my head to make the decisions that I had made that took me from the "path of righteousness". In actuality it was my own poor judgement and a need to explore my own self indugence. In essence, hind sight being 20/20, I now am beginning to see the error of my ways but I have been one of the few lucky ones. I guess what I am saying is never and I mean NEVER give up on family.
God Bless and love always. -Johnny
God Bless and love always. -Johnny
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I am a mormon father who was in denial for along time. My precious sweet daughter was getting caught up in all kinds of stuff....drugs, sex, alcohol, tobacco, lying, stealing, and even selling drugs. And she was brought to Utah to be raised in a wholesome environment.
Lessons learning are:
1. If you have a poor self esteem...watch out...you are very vulnerable.
2. If you rebel against our parents..watch out.
3. If your friends are all drug users..watch out.
4. If you start skipping alot of school...watch out.
5. If you stop doing things with your family...watch out.
I don't have any magic answers. Just to say here is one father who didn't believe it could happen to his kid and it happened big time. Stay close to your kids. Do whatever it takes to stay involved in their lives as much as possible.