Deseret News | Current focus concentrates on retaining LDS members

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New Harmony: Current focus concentrates on retaining LDS members

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Edwards part 4 | 5:27 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008

Continued from part 3....

To have the Blessings of the Gospel or Not??

The choice is UP to each individual. That's being a "Free Agent".... A true Gift fo God!!

The word "pestered" definitely has a negative spin.

Does a parent "pester" when they love their family members enough to care?? Sure sometimes it may be uncomfortable and annoying, BUT if they Didn't care
wouldn't that be much Worse??

Sure all can improve in how we handle this, but to say that the Church shouldn't care (pester) at all
is NOT to BE Truely doing its Christ-like DUTY!!

Jesus cared enough to DIE on the cross.

Sure there are personal may be sins that get in the way. But Jesus DIED to take away our sins if we let HIM.

No hard feelings, but we should be grateful for
an organization that cares. Even pays one's
Earthly bills when bad things like un-employment
strikes. Keeping food on the table for the wife
and kids is a kind of "pestering" that comes in useful sometimes.

Of course the Lord provided a Great Life beyond the
grave. I like making my own decisions to take advantage of that "Pestering".

God Bless...

Amazing Grace | 5:30 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008

To Edward,

Your point is well-taken, as far as it goes. Your problem is that, like so many LDS, you believe that your answer from God is the only TRUE answer and, therefore, people like me, who asked God and got the answer that the LDS Church is NOT the "only true and living Church on the face of the whole earth..." - YOU tell me my answer is WRONG or from the devil!

So, you play this card - "ask God and He will tell you the Truth" - but you don't truly mean it because unless they get YOUR answer, then they aren't truly asking GOD - according to your judgmental nonsense!

Amazing as it may seem, there are honest, good, God-fearing, and even "righteous" people who are NOT Mormons, or who are FORMER Mormons!

Amazing.

mornomor | 5:35 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008

The Church News reports that Tommy knows he's the new prophet because he has "felt his sustaining influence" ( see http://www.desnews.com/cn/view/1,1721,495006753,00.html). Great. After 50 years of being a special witness of Christ, I would think he'd have a better witness of his "mantle" than some warm fuzzies. But wait, it's too sacred to talk about it. Puuuleezze. Christ hated scribes pharisees & hypocrites. If you're a prophet SAY SO. If not, fess up, so we call all leave.
It's a social organization... not a spiritual one. And it's becoming more and more like the RLDS was 20 years ago. Won't be long now and we'll even change our name to "Community of Something".

Comments continue below

Spooky people! | 5:41 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008

It is amazing all the active members who place themselves above their own and the human race. Is this what your cult has done to you people? Very scary indeed, and I am not interested in your church any longer!

Me | 5:38 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008

To >>>>> SOMEBODY TELL ME >>>>>>> Massage Parlors and Porn is not something a father should be doing. And That's no matter what religion he is. What are you thinking?

Anonymous | 5:57 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008

Spooky people! -
Well, they'd like to THINK it's a church.
It's more of a political movement or a business than anything spiritual.

orson a. round | 7:14 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008

born into church with an active mom and non-member father. active growing up and dad joined the church. went to BYU, mloved it served a mission loved it, loved seeing good people change their lives, married in the temple, five wonderful kids, not all active but good kids, wife and I have filled several missions. I have found that being active, living a temple recommend life has brought great happiness to my family. Served in most Church callings, and found that those that become inactive usually don't want to live the teachings of the church. it is so easy to blame others for their inactivity - get real - live the teachings and you will be blessed. our family sure has been

John Lambert? | 8:55 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008

He sounds like a man who really believes in the Gospel to me. He encourages sticking with the Church, even ardently. And yet others criticize him for sticking to his guns? A shame....

Brother Lambert, you're OK with me.

one last addition | 9:59 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008

No one has or ever will have their Temple recommend taken away or threaned to have it taken away by associating with those whom have left the church.
I know that for me I suffer from extreme shyness, and have often heard that people have thought me to be stuck up or think I was better than them, when the exact opposite is true of me and probably others. I think many of us who are "active" members of the church know we should reach out more to others but are fearfull of rejection and after reading some of these heated comments I believe I am right. At least for me talking an reaching out to others is very scary. so don't take it personally if your neighbor seems stand-offish or anti-social..its not because your not a mormon, its probably because they are intimidated..

Gabriel | 11:13 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008

To one last addition | 9:59 p.m.,

You are wrong. I have been an associate (almost "friend") with several academics who have left the Church in various ways - sometimes of their choosing, and sometimes the Church's doing. Simply because of my association with these people, my Stake President has refused to give me a Temple recommend despite the fact that I am fully worthy. He even called me in for a "kangaroo court" and chastised me for writing a letter to the First Presidency petitioning his decision. I was amazed at his attitude. He hasn't called a disciplinary council (a "court of love" - HA!), but held an "informal" inquisition with me, his counselors, and my bishop. He has not taken any disciplinary action - no disfellowshipping, not excommunication, no anything except a kind of informal "blacklisting" and refusal to sign my temple recommend. He hasn't accused me of apostasy, but has insinuated that my association with these people makes me "dangerous"...?

I repeat, you are wrong. I have resigned myself to being completely shunned and marginalized in my ward and Stake. My family suffers for it because the gossip is horrible. Retention? What a joke.

Activation= More Money To Church | 1:15 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008

It's in the best interest for the Mormon church to reactivate their former members, because it's income to the church's bottom line.

The only way for the church to receive their regular weekly income is from tithing, which the church receives in the tens of millions each week, hence, they're like the customers of the church, and like any entity that deals with money, the more customers buy their products the more the entity makes money. And the LDS church has learned a long time ago that members equals cash, and the more the members, the more cash comes in.

Look, the church are never happy when they have to fork out it's money to it's needy members, so they created another stream of income from the members called fast offerings. This avoids forking out cash from the general fund, and the business streams of the church, such as Deseret Book, KSL 5, Deseret News, etc.

It makes perfect sense that the church wants to bring reactivation and temple recommend holders because it means more dollars coming in.

If you're a liability to the church, you're out of luck, and you're not wanted anymore.

I know from being a witness

RE: Wonderment | 2:27 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008

New Bishop - There is an excellent webcast by a gentleman named John Dehlin that gives a good explanation of why many people leave the church and have such strong negative feelings. His presentation is almost an hour long, but is well worth listening to. The easiest place to find it is on YouTube; just enter "why people leave the LDS Church" in the search field.

Mormon outside of Utah | 3:36 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008

I keep reading about flip-flops...what's up with that? Are they being banned somewhere? Here in Michigan I have never heard someone talk once about flip-flops in church? Banning flip-flops cannot possibly be a church policy, or if it is, it hasn't made it this far.

Another thought: in my calling I spend a majority of my time serving those who are less-active. I have found that (1) love for God and my brothers/sisters and (2) demonstrating that my agenda is nothing more than trying to be a friend, are extremely fulfilling, especially when the good people I meet decide the church is still not for them.

Having said that, and knowing that this is the charge I have been given by my bishop, I am bothered at those who suggest that ostracization is church policy. Certainly there are those who don't follow the policies well, but it is contrary to church policy to shun other people, and an honest person has to know this deep down.

GK from England | 4:35 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008

President Monson hit the nail on the head when he said 'activity' is more about what's in the heart. The Saints need to be truly converted if they are to remain spiritually and mentally strong as Satan's influence across the globe becomes more powerful and more evident. Unfortunately, many new converts to the LDS Church and some who have grown up in the LDS Church, see the Gospel as more of a social club and leave (stop attending Church) at the slightest upset or disagreement). Though some will argue that they are happier leaving the Church what they forget is that they and any of their family who follow them forfeit vital blessings that await the faithful, not just in this life, but more importantly in the next life. As President Monson said, "DON'T GIVE UP"!!!

The intimidator | 6:26 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008

good it's working!

The Church | 6:49 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008

The Church is great. (Members like Sen. Buttars makes you think otherwise). Everyone has a right to choose there church status. I've found happiness in my membership and will encourage anyone (whether they attend church on Sunday or not) to enjoy the LDS faith.

Happy and Free | 6:59 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008

Left the LDS church promptly after spreading its half truths as a missionary. I am now 28, and NEVER BEEN HAPPIER! Believe me, or don't.

To CA Mormon | 7:05 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008

Many of us have found that people in the church aren't perfect (just like everybody else). But, many of us have also found that the church isn't true (our opinion is as valid as yours) so we will not come back.
Accept it and move on! Your church is one church in many! And there will also be many that do not belong to any.

Something rarely mentioned | 7:24 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008

Is people like me that started not believing because of the ridiculous rules to being "sealed" in the temple. I come from a family of divorce. I didn't have much contact with my father for years so when my mother asked me to be "sealed" to her (and my stepfather since they were "sealed there) I did it to feel like I "belonged" somewhere. Over the years I became closer with my natural father. He really had his feelings hurt by this...not that we believe it now (neither of us are "active") and we can see how ridiculous the whole thing is. We have known women that think they won't be with their new husband because they were previously "sealed" to their deceased one. We have known men that think they will be with more than one wife in heaven (since they can be "sealed" to more than one in the temple).
It's all ridiculous, hurtful and will not be tolerated much longer. I have now had my name removed and many people I know have.

Richard NamVet | 7:49 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008

Paul Dunn stated in the mid 1970's that "no one treats the Vietnam Veteran as badly as the mormons".

I bear witness that Elder Dunn spoke the truth.
You have successfully driven me away from the LDS Church's organization.

Most mormons make the LDS church the world's worst "we are better than you club".

Chair, Mormon Combat Veterans Opposed To Mitt Romney
Richard Prestwich
Grantsville, Utah

Lance B. | 7:48 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008

To Orson,

You need to get out more. Not everybody can go through life with rose-colored glasses like the ones you wear. No, people don't just leave the Church or go inactive because they don't want to "live the teachings." That kind of thinking is erroneous and simply serves to justify you and condemn those who are not like you. Moreover, the same logic is used to justify "active" members of ANY Church - Scientologists say the same thing (people who fall away just couldn't live up to the high standards!). Ask Tom Cruise and John Travolta, they'll tell you! There may be a lot of members who fall away because they were personally offended, but there are also a large number of people who fall away (inactive OR leave altogether) because they LEARN NEW THINGS. They reconsider their "testimony" because they recognize that feelings can be misleading. They reconsider the BOM because of DNA evidence and Church leaders' making changes to it. They reconsider "the Church is true but the people aren't" because the Church IS the people, and "by their fruits..." They reconsider Jesus' teachings. These are not sins. Many people who leave are NOT SINNERS.

You are right Gabriel | 8:04 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008

I too know that there is a type of "blacklist".
Doesn't sound "of God" does it? That's because it's not! People reading this: evaluate this and stand up and change it! This is evil and not of "the spirit" (as you like to put it).

Adam12 | 8:34 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008

We are constantly told not to be offended. There is never any instruction for those who do the offending.

anon | 8:45 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008

How are the members going to help bring me back? First I am happier without the church in my life. Second members will never discuss The dark issues of there church. I would like to here answers from the top on there history and the lack of new revelation.

So come on lets just get along with each other and have no other motive for being nice to our neighbor

Non-believe | 8:52 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008

People, you need to read what you have written. Most of you are completely intolerant of people who have left the church or who have been offended. You are the reason that people have left!!!!!!! You don't need to look any further than your own attitude toward people in the church who are struggling. The intolerance here is unbelievable.

Prophecy | 9:08 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008

In the last days there will be no fence-sitters......I think the seperation is beginning. You guys can try to justify it away until you are blue in the face.....all I can say to you is: GOOD LUCK!!

Jim Huston | 9:12 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008

I think the Mormon Church will get a result from this push that they do not anticipate. Many of the people who have left Mormonism did not "fall away" or become "less active" we ran. Many of us have spent extened periods of time in study and really know much more about Mormon history and roots than the average member. What I studied were not "anti-Mormon," but were books that use to be used, but the teachings and legitimate history have fallen from favor. If I am approached by the Mormon Church, I will have no problem sharing what I have learned. I think the fallout will be more people leaving, not fewer. The Mormon Church will never "come clean," so there will always be a risk of losing the people assigned to reach out to people like me. You don't unlearn the truth once you discover it. "A mind once expanded by a new idea never again returns to its original dimensions."

Hobbs | 9:15 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008

As someone who borders on inactive (at least as far as going to church). In the ward I am in you have two demographics young married with kids or Senior Citizens. We fall in the weird middle ground of no kids. This is only my view. Some wards in the Church are what I would call closed wqards. This means that people hang in there clicks and if you dot fit that click, sorry. I gave up on the home teachers assigned to me becuase you see them once and then, poof, never see them again. I am doing better just staying home and hanging with non member friends.

Carole Knowles | 9:20 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008

When we feed ourselves from the word of God, we don't need to be told repeatedly by our leaders to love and serve one another, to lift the hand that hangs down. When done with the spirit, the home and visiting teaching program is the perfect way to watch over each other. Better training in sensitive and compassionate home and visiting teaching is needed in the church.

mustberight | 9:41 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008

Before I was baptized I was a member of another church which had disagreements all the time and split and split.

I asked if that was going to occur in the LDS church. A very wise missionary said, "In this church you are going to see people in all stages of spiritual growth. You are not responsible for them, you need only to be concerned with your own spiritual growth." This has saved me many times.

The gospel is true, the church is an organization of imperfect people. Therefore, I have adopted this, "It is you and me Lord, I depend on you to keep me close as I struggle." I find when I involve other people there is a problem. If I have personal guidance of the spirit I do okay. Works for me.

Label me Bad | 9:52 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008

I just got tired of this small town gossip , critisize and judge approach. Example I know of a person or persons who work in the health care sector yet puts herself or themselves above all others ..hides in various parts of the building to avoid doing work yet recieves the higher pay. All the members surround her and condone this way of operation so then when the real hospital is built she will go in as a supervisor to people of a race she shuns. Thinks she has a stairway to heaven because all her children have served mission yet continues to burn non-members and the minority factions as she clearly sees herself as superior. To me she represents the feeling of the community because she never once is questioned yet pulls down 30 dollars an hour giving a pennies worth of work. It is not only her but others who have become parasites of these people who the church needs to re-convert as they show up just to toss the bread in and return to what they were , week after week, if heaven is ran like this ..I don't want no part. Be tolerant when I complain!

my experience | 10:00 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008

From my experience, when I decided to become inactive (based on much thought & prayer), I found out who my friends really were...none of them were members of the church. I had been an active member for 30 years. When I decided to go, the Relief Society president decided herself to put me on the "do not contact" list. I had been receiving weekly email updates, and then they just stopped. I had been friends (or so I thought) with my Visiting Teachers, who also stopped. The last time I got a call from one of them, I returned her call the next day saying that, yes, they could come by...and I never heard from them again. My home teacher still comes on the last Sunday of each month, but he doesn't attempt to deliver a message, and he seems antsy to get out as quickly as possible. When I was active, I tried to invite my inactive friends to social events, but I this past year, I haven't been invited to anything. I was friendly toward the church, but it has decided not to have any contact with me.

I think | 10:03 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008

church is good but practice is better. Everyday is Sunday! let every man , women and child believe how they want. if you can't see the tide shifting against your church..your in for a rude awakening, brothers and sisters. Maybe some of us are just better off left alone.

truetothefaith | 10:57 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008

Reading these comments has made me aware that I do have a strong testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I helps me know that I am on the right path. Ture, everything is not perfect in the Church - but remember it is run my imperfect men. The truthfulness of the Gospel never changes. Following the teachings of Christ is and should be our goal.
This will bring true happiness. The missionary who baptized me was very wise when he said, "In this church you will find people in all stages of spiritual growth, but what they do is not your concern, your only concern is your own spiritual growth." This is what keeps me on track. Knowing and following the Gospel principals should be our only goal.

Not for me | 11:06 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008

We had a bishop who took people in to his office during their temple recommend interviews and asked the members if they were morally clean while he (OUR BISHOP) was out committing adultery. I have found no forgiveness in this, because he had no right when I was worthy to ask me such a question when he had been cheating on his wife for over a year... He has a large family and has since rejoined the church after being Xed. Not once has this man ever asked for any memberï¿½s forgiveness. He is a vile man and worldly beyond measure. He even had the gall to accept his call as Bishop while cheating on his wife. I no longer have any respect for the LDS church and have become inactive.

Richard OEF VET | 11:05 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008

Richard,
Is Paul Dunn the best source you can come up with? Please, think about who he is and the yarns he has told over the years. Also, if you left the church, how can you call yourself the chair of the Mormon Combat Veterans Opposed to Mitt Romney?

Richard Riley
Chair, Mormon Combat Veterans who support Mitt Romney
Syracuse Utah Chapter

AlpineDavid | 11:28 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008

When John the Baptist was tossed into prison, his life took a dramatic turn. The things he had experienced - known, really - were longer ago and farther away with each passing, awful day. Prison must have been terrible for this prophet of the desert. By and by, he was confronted with doubts and he had plenty of idle time to entertain them. When he asked Jesus, "Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?", Jesus gave his cousin the loving counsel to pay more attention to the fact that the blind were receiving sight, the deaf their hearing, etc. In other words, the "work" was going forward in spite of prison, legal hindrance, stubbornness, spiritual blindness and threats of death - vicious and horrible death. It is not recorded with what courage or discouragement John stepped up to his chopping block, but one of the most powerful antidotes to depression, discouragement and, in the present discussion, inactivity, must surely be to "cast your mind" on the evidence that the essential work of the gospel is going forward, in spite of cold-shouldered wards, offending opinions, family bickering, etc. "Faith of our Fathers...we will be true."

Wake up | 11:37 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008

The church's pandering to illegal aliens this week did a lot to drive a number of people away. They don't even follow their own articles of faith. Millions of people in this country have been victims of illegals and the church is now on an amnesty push that is truly pathetic, just read the Deseret News every day.Their sympathy is with those who break the law, forget the victims, there are new members to be had. Everyone I have talked to this week is enraged by their action. They are to going lose big on this pathetic nonsense that isn't even consistent with their own doctrines.

Anonymous | 11:47 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008

I would like a refund for the million dollars that I have donated to tithing through the years. I don't want to support illegals.

Very Disappointing | 11:50 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008

I'm an active LDS member and I find it terribly disappointing so many former members and even current members choose to be so blind. Two men wrote that they're angry at the Church for bishops telling their wives it was OK to get a divorce because of their husbands' addiction to pornography. What? Since when is it OK for one spouse to intentionally spiritually weaken and degrade another and not suffer some negative consequence? You may not intend to hurt others but that is the result, nonetheless.

Another claimed that the Church wanted to improve retention for more tithing. Yeah, right. If you believe that you will never make the Celestial Kingdom. Others don't see a problem with tatoos or body piercings because they don't yet fully understand our bodies are the most sacred creation that God has made. To do such things shows blatant disrespect and ingratitude to Heavenly Father. Still others spew their poison to members of false doctrine and things they learned on the internet about the "real truth" of the Church's history. Laughable if it wasn't so dangerous.

To the faithful: the Church IS true. If you've left, I hope you return.

Dan Maloy
Enid, OK

Paul H. Dunn | 11:50 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008

was a certified , bonafide liar from the pulpit! As a veteran of the same war and professional baseball player I lived closer to the truth than he and I am not a Mormon!

Randy | 11:58 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008

The mormon church is no church for middle age or older single members, espcially men. It is a family church.

Roy in NC | 12:47 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008

I found out when I joined the church, there are class A members, born in the church and class B who coverted. It also bothered me that with no professional clergy to council members about all a ward president does is collect money to send back to Utah. Certainly not what Christ would of done.

Amen | 1:18 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008

It is a poor religion when not allowed to question.

Anonymous | 1:16 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008

I've been reading these posts and I'm amazed, only in religion do we expect other people to govern our actions. In business and in life you do what your supposed to do then everything follows. The fact is when many of you who fell away who we're a part of the church acted like all the others your condemning. I don't go to a new ward thinking what are the members going to do for me, I would rather go into it thinking the other way. Life is a mirror you get out of it what you put into it. You attract exactly what you put into it. But go ahead make all the other excuses.
And by the way for those who don't believe why are you offended by this article, why are you reading it? Do you think we want you back at all costs, the answer is no! So who's on their high horse, it's not the church who is doing what every church out there does and call there people to help their people.
The fact you all write in this makes me think that there's that doubt you made the right decision.

Anonymous | 2:10 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008

Criminy jickets!
Anonymous 1:16

You need to read a little a bit closer and quit feeling sorry for yourself and defending something that is wrong right in front of your very eyes. Unless you are just plane stupid. Which i'm incline to believe you are. i am sorry for you.

Simple Folk | 2:29 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008

I think the article has this a little backwards. It is not retaining members that is the issue, the object should be an attempt to stop driving members away. Very different concepts and approaches.

This concept of driving people aware would also go along way for the cultural divide and divisiveness the LDS church causes throughout the intermountain region.

To: Anonymous 1:16 | 2:35 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008

When I was active, I had no idea how inactives were treated either....I guess you would have to leave the church to find out that no matter how many times you respond to invitations to come to church or listen to missionaries or home teachers with a polite "No, thank you", you will continue to be contacted. Apparently, "No" doesn't really mean "NO", it means "Not right now, maybe in a couple of months." A letter to the Bishop asking for no contact, apparently meant that I would still be contacted with propoganda, even if it was only by mail. I can appreciate that some members do not fully understand the frustration that non-members and inactives must deal with, and this certainly leads to the open hostility that members are confronted with when trying to contact an inactive....Many of us have usually tried to politely decline way too many times before. Try to see the other side. This article references the fact that the church will increase it's efforts in this area. I don't mind being contacted once, but please, "No" means "No".

Anonymous | 2:56 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008

My next door neighbors who are non-members ask the LDS church once or twice a year to please quit sending the missionaries to no avail. They are fed-up with Mormons and won't have anything to do with them. They said to me that there is lack of respect for others who don't want to join the church. They also practice another faith. They are thinking of putting a sign on there door for the church to leave them alone.

Cr@ig P@xton | 3:05 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008

I am no longer active or involved in the Mormon church for only one reason...It IS NOT what it claims to be.

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