Deseret News | Current focus concentrates on retaining LDS members

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New Harmony: Current focus concentrates on retaining LDS members

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Moessers | 9:55 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I was active and involved in the "church" for over 25 years. Mission, BYU, temple marriage, and a myriad of callings. I left the church of my own free will and accord over three years ago because of conflicting issues with LDS church history. I can honestly say my wife and I have never been happier or more at peace spiritually. We have no desire to be retained, so please don't come knocking on our door.

princessk | 10:01 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I believe and am very happy to live in a day and ege when i can be led to safety IF i hearken to the words of a living prophet. I know that the efforts to retain members will not fade away in time and our leaders will not get tired of talking about it and putting their efforts into it.This is what the Lord would have them them do for us. Things that are important to our salvation will be repeated over and over until we hearken. Retention is a good thing and i know people who would have been miserable without the efforts of those who are concerned about them. However,we have a precious gift of choice, so that we can be agents unto ourselves. I have experienced the joy of retention even if i have not left my faith, and the joy is twice as much for those who have chosen to embrace the principle of retention. We, who are still active should be careful not to drive people away because of what we say and do to others,we are guilty of doing this sometimes.Let us be examples of believers,"Ye shall know them by their fruits".

Jason | 9:56 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

WOW and Guymon. Exhibits A & B ladies and gentlemen! And you wonder why people leave the church. When the members like these two get off their high horses and get over themselves than maybe things will change. I seriously doubt it though! People like WOW and Guymom will always exist. Self-serving pharises that think they're better than anyone else because they have "the truth" and "the power and authority." God said, you are saved by grace not by works lest man should boast. Well Mormons like these two are the perfect example of that scripture! I believe in God and Jesus Christ and they are with me constantly. I don't need a sanctimonius and self-serving religious organization to have that presence in my life thank you very much!

Comments continue below

Perfectionist | 10:03 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I feel sad that so many people expect all members of the LDS faith to be perfect. I for one am not, and have not said hello to someone and not reached out because I was more concerned about myself or other goings on. I'm trying to be better at that, but until we can realize that we can't expect others to be perfect until we are first (which if you are, I'd love to meet you), we'll have to settle on our loving Heavenly Father. Only He is perfect and can totally guide our lives. The key is to stay connected to Him, and make sure that we do things His way and not our way. But it is so easy to assume that we are right and neglect Him. If you have fallen away but are connected to Him (not just in your mind, but actively seeking His will and His will only), I have no problem with that. The Church isn't here to judge us (although most people think it is) it is here to help us gain and strengthen that connection.

swingshine | 10:03 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

The reason people fall out of the church is the same reason people fall out of bed - they're not in it far enough. It's a sad fact that people often go to church for the social reasons. Of course they are not going to want to go when they feel they've been offended! I've been in dozens of wards in my life and have had the experience of people not talking to me, etc. Have I thrown the blame on them? No, I step outside MYSELF and make myself known to them. In every instant, I have built friendships and become involved. Activation in the church should be based on the individual's personal testimony and commitment to living the gospel and strengthening others inspite of whether people give anything to them. It's not about what you get out of your life and from others, it's out of what you GIVE. It's so sad that society has all become "what's in it for me". Selfishness is what it has boiled down to. Stop blaming other people for your decisions, learn to forgive and live your life!

Fritz | 10:04 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

To non retained and all others who have fallen away and felt abandoned: I am sorry for the rude treatment. I can't promise change, but I hope it will change for each of you. It is true that some are stuck in their ways and find it difficult to reach out. That is their problem, not yours. Some times people want to reach out, but hold back out of fear of rejection. Please understand that. I think President Benson got it right; It comes down to pride, on both sides. There is room for questions, we don't know everything. Come back. We need you. We want you and your family.

Me | 10:07 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I have been a memeber all my life.(60yr) I have been active and inactive. One becomes hurt by some unknown or careless act in church. Then the struggle begins. I turned away and began smoking. Well at that point my mind set was, I can't go back til I quit smoking. That's just what the advesary wanted me to do. 20 yrs later, through my proudful and stubborn attitude, I rationalized it out as who needs all this anyway. But the truth be known I felt like I let God down, and I didn't like myself very much.
Then came VT & HT. They never gave up on me and my family. Finally I decided to go back, smoking or not. Those RS women took me in and loved me. So much that I felt that maybe God did love me. I felt little by little that my worth as a person mattered. 6 mo later I quit smoking soon after the Temple. My Husband took 10 yrs to come back. But now we have gone to Temple and been sealed. My point is, time is all it takes, Patients is hard to keep, If I hadn't been loved.

anonymous | 10:12 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Ron in OC:

It's people like you in the Church that I don't miss AT ALL. Good luck reactivating anybody with that attitude. While I "spare you" of my reasons for my inactivity, please "spare me" your self-righteousness, pomposity and hypocrisy. People like you ARE the problem.

Richard | 10:13 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Retention begins with conversion. Many (but by no means all)missionaries and mission presidents treat missionary work as a business and conversions like sales numbers. When the big goal is baptism, regardless of whether the convert meets the requirements of D&C 20:37, the net result will always be poor retention, with converts entering in at the front door of the chapel and walking right out the back door. Let's not care how many converts we have, but focus on real conversion--then the retention increase will take care of itself.

Anonymous | 10:17 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

HARRISON......their is nothing that disproves the Book of Mormon. Go to Scholarly and Historical Information Exchange for Latter Day Saints (kown as SHIELDS) and get caught up to date on your old incorrect information.

Please | 10:17 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Please come back and change what you don't like..or at least find out the why of the reasons you have stated here............Have a good day.

be happy !

Here's a suggestion | 10:17 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Perhaps many members are not paying their tithing or coming to church because they're turned off by the blatant double standard the Church uses when dealing with Latino members who are here illegally.

When an institution sets itself up as a source of moral authority, and then ignores its own stated doctrine (obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law) to benefit certain members, it creates the perception that perhaps they really are just another organization, not the Church of Jesus Christ.

Part of the reason so many believe in the Church is because it usually stands firm for law and morality. However, based on recent statements by some Church leaders it would seem that such things are negotiable, depending on your skin color and income level.

Anonymous | 10:26 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

If you rely on God's teachings, you would have your children killed by stones thrown by men in the city for being disobedient, among other horrific things. If you mean pick and choose from the Bible to create a moral system, at least be honest about it.

anonymous | 10:22 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

APOAT8:

Well, think of it this way. Your forebearers and all the other pioneers that crossed the plains gave up THEIR faiths to join the Mormon church. People seem to forget this. You owe your forebearers absolutely nothing. They turned their backs on their own religions and heritage.

Simple | 10:22 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I am acitive in the LDS Church because I believe it is Christ's church and He is at the head of it. I believe that JS was a prohpet and translated the Book of Mormon. Therefore I could care less how many people in the church offend me. Who cares if my HT didn't come last month. There are a lot of wacked out people in the LDS church but there are wacked out people everywhere. If you don't believe in those core truths then I understand why you would leave, I wouldn't have become a member to begin with.

Jeff Kelley | 10:24 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

The problem with retention in the Church is most members are socially retarded. Yes, retarded! For so many in the Church, a reach out to a neighbor or friend can only be accomplished if there is an assignment. Church leadership meetings are full of projects to activate or reach out. But, no one is willing to reach out for the sake of just being a friend. Until members of the church learn to love both inactive and non-members, soley for the purpose of just loving them without any alterior motive, then retention is never going to be accomplished.

re::Ron in OC | 10:25 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

GEE RON in OC, IN YOUR OWN SPIRITUAL WORDS....
For those who have left the LDS church for whatever reason. Go do your thing and be happy but spare us the story about being offended, left out, questions not tolerated, etc.

DEAR RON,
WHERE DID YOU LEARN SUCH COMPASSION FOR OTHERS? DID YOUR CHURCH TEACH YOU THIS?
Looks like you have a No tolerance attitude for others.
Perhaps you are the type of guy who likes to kick the dog while it's down. Someday you may be the dog.

Just wondering | 10:27 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Why is it that the Church insists on labeling anyone who leaves as being offended or wanting to sin? Aren't they able to conceive of any other reasons a person might leave? (Such as learning the truth and being honest)

Also it's hard to retain and reactivate members when active members are told that they can lose their temple recommend if they associate with apostates.

hey jam23 | 10:35 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Jam23,

you are so right when you state that you have had experiences that you cannot discount. I have some unbelievable experiences that I couldn't discount either. The truth for me wasn't so much that the Church got the credit for these experiences, the truth is God got the credit. There are experiences that I had with the Church that brought me enlightenment, however I have experienced more enlightenment after leaving the Church. I know now that the Church used certain tools to that assisted me with my spiritual grown. I also know that I have no use for the Church anymore and I am now growing more spiritual through my own means

God's Way | 10:30 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

No matter what everyone has to say, the point isn't to do it OUR way, it's to do it Gods' way. Suck it up and realize that the way of man will never be the way of God, get it touch with Him and follow what He says not what you or some other man thinks!

Anonymous | 10:32 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

The gospel principals actually do change, but believers blind themselves to the obvious. Certain aspects of the temple ceremony have changed in a significant way, and the Church no longer preaches racist garbage. I'm happy it changes. Who wants to live the life of a 19th century Mormon?

I left the Church not in order to be "hip", for I was never "hip" nor cared for such things. I left the Church because I kept learning how false it truly is, and also because I learned that I can live a rich, emotional and moral life without religion. Like everyone else, I have made mistakes, but I learn better without religious guilt.

something to think about | 10:32 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

being a member of the church has blessed my life in so many ways...but the list would go on and on so i will just say one thing that i have learned is that if it was easy then everyone would be doing it. it is easy! just repent and strive to live the commandments and you will be happy thats all the church teaches therefore everyone should be doing it.

Anonymous | 10:34 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Members need to learn that the world doesn't just revolve around them, and that they are not legends of any kind, just in their own minds. A hundred years from now no one will remember you. You are just grains of salt by the trillions!

Anonymous 9:33...find yourself!

Opposite Conclusion | 10:41 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

To "Harrison". It is interesting that you left because you came to the conclusion that the BOM is not scripture of ancient origin.
There are some things with LDS history, such as the way Joseph Smith practiced polygamy, that have caused me to question and even "waver".
However, the one anchor that has kept me firmly in the faith is an unshakable conviction that the BOM is exactly what it purports to be.
While much of this conviction is due to spiritual confirmation, examining objective, empirical data has deepened my certainty of that book. No, I cannot point to a ruin and say "Here is Zarahemla", but Lehi's voyage has been pretty well mapped out, computer analysis shows that numerous authors were involved in writing the various sections of the book, the DNA "evidence" turned out to be a shibboleth to a great extent. I could go on but that is beyond the scope of a message board.

Ron in OC | 10:38 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Many posts say something to the effect, I was raised LDS, mission, temple marriage, church callings and then found the truth and left. It's as if you are trying to convince us that you were some sort of super mormon. So what. I know many losers that were raised LDS - many losers that were missionaries - many losers that were married in the temple - many losers that had church callings. Again I say so what.

Senior | 10:40 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Thank you to those of you who are sharing your "testimonies" of why you have left the church. Clearly in your mind, you felt you had good and compelling reasons to leave. I'm glad you are happy with your decision. I just don't understand why you're here. This is an article in the Mormon Times section of the Deseret News -- a section aimed specifically at Latter-day Saints. Online you can find it on LDS Newsline -- which again provides news and information for and about members of the LDS Church. If the Church is so abhorent to you, why are you here? Why do you continue to wash yourself in what you obviously consider to be dirty water? If you want to go -- go! God be with you! But the fact that you continue to feel a need to rationalize and justify your decision to leave the Church here before an obviously LDS audience suggests you are not as at peace with your decision as you would like us to believe -- or perhaps, as you would like YOURSELF to believe. To paraphrase the Bard: methinks thou dost protest too much.

Brent | 10:45 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I have always found it curious that so many who "leave" the church are adamant about not having their names removed from church records. A few years ago our ward leaders contacted all of the inactive, so called "do not contact" members in our ward to let them know they would from time to time be contacted by ward members to see how they were doing and to offer help with whatever they might need. They were told that if they didn't want to receive this kind of contact they could make a request to have their names removed from church records. Surprisingly, not one person out of more than 30 made such a request. So for those who have left the church and feel it is not true but have not removed their names from the records my only question is why not? That is the most effective way to completely dissassociate yourself from the church. Perhaps for many it is because there is still the slightest ember of testimony waiting to one day be rekindled.

Moessers--uhh...1 | 10:46 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Who cares. Why are you posting this? Isn't it your own "personal" view?

Are you trying to convince others?

If you are so "at peace" why is it a talking point? I'd say you're not at peace so much as you think.

Bob | 10:41 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I don't think it is giving up, rather it is rising above.

So Sad | 10:44 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I don't know which is sadder, those people who supposedly once had a testimony and now have found the "truth" through the internet or other means, or those that are so self righteous that if I didn't have a strong testimony I would leave just from having to deal with them regularly.

Truth is truth. No matter how much we research it, spiritual truth may only be dicerned through the spirit. It can't be found on the internet or on tv or through any other medium other than through the spirit itself. If you have found it then you know. If you have lost it through your own abandoment and refuse to seek it again, then you will never acknowledge that it ever existed.

Arguing either side of the issue is pointless.

Only the Spirit can settle the matter and you have to open your heart to hear its voice. If you don't want to, then be happy where you are and leave those who choose to believe alone. It is no skin off your bones.

Believers, remember that non-believers have their agency too.

Anonymous 10 | 10:45 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Those who said 'please don't come knocking to retain us', just make sure your name is off the Church's records permanently and they won't, otherwise your 'inactivity' is a cause to come knowcking.

Ernest T. Bass | 10:52 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

There is a real problem with the culture within the church. Within the active LDS community there is a culture of fear and mistrust for those who are no longer active.
Once active members get over this fear and mistrust, the innactives will become more open to friendship and possible re-activity.
This culture has destroyed family bonds and it's wrong.
There are problems in LDS history that should be addressed. We need to stop pretending that past leaders never made mistakes.

CaReader | 10:47 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Joseph Smith's gold digging history
Joseph Smith marriages to a 16 year old girl and the wives of other men.
The Kinderhook Plates
Zelph
Brigham Young preaching Adam/God doctrine in the Tabernacle
Mark E. Petersen's talk on blacks at BYU.
Spencer W. Kimball declaring that American Indians will turn white after being converted.
The list goes on. History I never knew of while I grew up in the church and served a mission. When I came to the horrific conclusion that the church has not been honest and forthright about Mormon history, my belief collapsed like a house of cards and I felt deceived. The time has come for the church to become involved in some honest dialogue in explaining church history. It needs to come from the top leaders...talks during general conference. I don't think the presidency of the church realize how many people are falling away because of what they are finding out about the church while the leadership just simply ignores and refuses to address what has happened in the past.

SuperMo | 10:48 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Jason, I can see you just don't get it. Mormons are better in every regard. And to those who get their truth from the internet. Guess what, you read it here so it must be true.

A Long-Inactive Member | 10:49 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

My goodness, how we do miss the point! The article is focused on the attitude of active members toward the inactive, citing the authorities along the same lines. Many of the responses here, however, make a point of obnoxiously pushing the attitudes that are the problem being addressed! One is left to wonder just who it is that isn't following the prophet, the inactive (e.g., me) or ... ? Maybe there's a purpose in this?

Here's a few notions to consider: 1) Not everyone who is inactive is unfaithful. 2) The church is only one waypoint - albeit a critically important one - toward exaltation. 3) And finally, to the point of the discussion, you might ask yourself if it's possible that in talking about retention and nurture, the leadership is actually addressing something else entirely!

Brothers and Sisters, what IS the role of the church?

Roger | 10:55 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Often, very often, I read or hear about people who have left the LDS Church because they claim either that Mormonism isn't honest or that LDS Church members are rude and self-righteous. Yet many of these same people end up falling into the trap that they accuse Mormonism of being in already.

I can't tell you how many times I have read or heard ex-Mormons make accusation against the LDS Church which have no basis in fact. Often I say to myself, "This clearly isn't the LDS Church I've been attending my whole life."

Then, there are those ex-Mormons who make fools of themselves by yelling and screaming at those who attend General Conference. Sometimes even calling LDS women "religious whores" or pretending to use temple garments as toilet paper.

But I think even worse than that, are the ex-Mormons who write papers and post blogs which mock anything having to do with the LDS Church. Even if the situations is tragic, like the murder of an LDS Church member, these people are ruthless in their cruel and vulgar comments.

I know not all ex-Mormons are like this, but to many of them are.

It's the differences that matter | 10:55 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I often hear members of the Church say things like "sincerely read the Book of Mormon and pray about it" or emphasize the Savior, the atonement and loving and serving others.

The central message of the Book of Mormon is simply a confirmation of the Savior and his atonement.

I truly believe in the message of the Book of Mormon and the wonderful teachings in the Church about the Savior and his atonement. But this message is no different than that taught by mainstream christianity.

It is LDS history and doctrine beyond the central message of the Boof of Mormon that tend to hurt testimonies. I can accept the message of the Savior and of service wholeheartedly. But I would get the same down the road at any christian church. It is unfortunately the other things - the unique things to LDS history/doctrine - mulitple first vision stories, polygamy, masonry, past priesthood policies, Book of Abraham, etc. etc. that are very hard to wink at and say we will understand it all later. I have prayed sincerely and these issues continue to jump out in my mind like a huge red flag. Maybe my prayers are being answered?

Kyle from AZ | 10:57 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

What I think is so funny is that people who don't go to church for one reason or another always love to state how "free" they are and how much more deeply spiritual they are. Yet whenever they get a chance to put down the church or complain bitterly they do. If you were truely "free" wouldn't you go on with life and not care? It reminds me of my mom who got divorced over 20 years ago but yet still takes cheap shots at my dad even to this day. Even though she is divorced is she free from him? I think you all need to re-examine your professed freedom and ask yourselves why you continue to care what the church does or how it is operated.

Wow is Back | 10:59 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Yep, its me. Most of you replied to my original post basically saying "see, I told you so" and "exhibit A". Let me make one thing perfectly clear - if some bonehead member said something to you that caused you to go inactive, or if someone shunned you because you asked questions and called you apostate, then they are in the wrong. I personally welcome you back. But the deal is still the same - you either believe JS restored Christ's true church or you don't. The church is run by imperfect people, but that doesn't excuse you from not going back or resolving your concerns. Either its the one and only church or its not. If you are happy going inactive, so be it. This article is not your invitation to complain, its your invitation to take action and for active members to welcome you back. The "dialouge" is your opportunity to take action, and no, complaining anonymously on a message board isn't taking action. I welcome you back, but its a two way street.

Dennis | 11:03 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

The Church is not a place where perfect people gather to say perfect things, think perfect thoughts, and feel perfect things.
The Church is a place where imperfect people gather to provide encouragement, support, and service to each other as we press on in our journey to return to our Heavenly Father.

Anonymous | 10:59 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

When and if we make it to the Celistial Kingdom. The biggest surprise won't be who's there. But who is not there.

My five year old daughter reactivated a long time inactive ex Bishop. He was a huge and kindly man who had made himself "Uncle Tom".

She asked him to come to church to hear her first talk. He came. Why did he come, someone who loved him asked. Two months later he and his wife went with my wife and I in our small plane to the temple for the first time in about 20 years.

I repeat why? Because some who loved him asked.

Anonymous 2 | 10:59 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I began to "fall away" when I realized that the Mormon mindset often doesn't promote Christian actions especially when I wasn't judged worthy of the action. I left the church and am on a spiritual quest -not a church quest. Fear is the deterrent the church uses to discourage thinking. The right to question is only paid lip service and truly isn't encouraged. Life is meant to be joyful and fulfilling - not narrow and guilt ridden. I would be interested in the true numbers of "baby boomers" who are leaving to live a more normal and happy life. And, it hasn't meant leaving to pursue "worldly" pleasures. Just leaving because I'm tired of the restrictive and narrow focus. No longer believing that the promise of happiness and fulfillment for another life will be a great enough reward if I can just endure. Why not be happy now?
Or fulfilled now? The church wants us in a box - safe and secure (translates to fearful and depressed) and tells us there are terrible consequences if we peek out. I'm out of the box and it's wonderful and beautiful out here and only good things have happened since.

Re: Guymon | 11:00 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Well those are some opinionated arguments there. I served a mission, got married in the temple, and have kids. We did the church thing for awhile...BUT then we saw the light and discovered for ourselves the falsehoods of the church and we've never been HAPPIER!

Spanky | 11:04 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I was born into the LDS faith, was active. When I was in my mid 20s I began to question not only whether the LDS church was for me, but whether it was true. I looked at the situation with blacks being denied the priesthood. I looked at the exclusionary attitude of the LDS church when it came to non members. I looked at, what appeared to me, to be an organization where independent thought and questioning were not tolerated. I looked at what appeared to me to be a business like, corporate like organization, more concerned with accumulating wealth and political power, than an organization concerned with the spiritual well being of people. I came to the conclusion that the LDS church is not true, that it didn't fulfill the spiritual needs that I so desperately longed for, and that it wasn't for me. At 28 I requested excommunication and was told that I must attend Bishops Court. I told them to hold it without me. I'm now 57 with no regrets about leaving.

Already made up your mind | 11:14 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

To CaReader and Ernest T. Bass - I can direct you to many LDS writings which address the very topics you have brought up, but I already know it won't change your mind.

The funny thing is, Ernest T. Bass said, "We need to stop pretending that past leaders never made mistakes."

EXACTLY! No one has ever said that LDS Church leaders, past or present, are infalliable. Their human beings, just like the rest of us. Yet, whenever an LDS leaders slip up in anyway, the critics are right there to attack them saying, "Look at what he just said. The clearly proves the LDS Church must be false."

So, which is it? Is the LDS Church false because it's members and leaders aren't perfect, or because it's leaders and members aren't perfect enough?

Confused | 11:12 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I am from and active LDS family and married a man who comes from a family in which the father is inactive and the mother is non-member. The in-laws live all the teachings of the gospel including chastity, the word of wisdom, etc. I now find myself in the situation that I see absolutely wonderful people with my same beliefs that are very happy and can relate. My husband joined the church in college about 2 years before we were married. From his background he does not see attending church as necessary and attends with me about 40% of the time. I frequently attend alone and am asked weekly where my husband is. I feel that I must make excuses for his absence. I have great faith in God, Christ, the creation, and priesthood but often struggle in silence with other teachings. I am tempted to stop attending for awhile to see how I feel but I know that would not make my family very happy. I love the church but can't help feeling a little stuck sometimes.

Anonymous | 11:17 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

CaReader.....your inaccurate post, if not pathetic, would be amusing. Your claims are those repeated by 2nd hand, 3rd hand ect accounts from inaccurate information. Either your ignorant of the facts, or just plain misinformed. Posts like yours lose all credibility by the obvious bias, for whatever reason, against the Church. Again, for all who want factual objective information go to the Scholarly and Historical Information Exchange of Latter Day Saints. Click around and find the "42 questions" area which addresses the common questions about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. Information on this site is provided by highly educated people, both members and non-members. Sadly, no matter how much factual information is out there, some will continue to spread false information.

Adam | 11:18 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I didn't leave the Church, the Church left me, and in so doing, unchurched me for having sacrament at home, unauthorized underwear, believing in ALL early teachings. Many of these teachings have been abandoned for wider appeal, but why should those believing be persecuted? Many feel that believing early doctrines are in error, but Joseph said:

"I do not like the old man being called up for erring in doctrine. It looks too much like the Methodist, and not like the Latter-day Saints. Methodists have creeds which a man must believe or be asked out of their church. I want the liberty of believing as I please. It feels good not to be trammelled. It does not prove that a man is not a good man because he errs in doctrine."

Add the 11th Article of Faith, but apparently this only applies to non-members. Comments here show some are persecuted out of the Church which many think justified. Hyrum Smith, 20th century apostle said:

"While it is true that victims of persecution have sometimes been wrong, it is equally true that the persecutors have ALWAYS been wrong."

The retention problem can often be Church policies.

CA Mormon | 11:19 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

To all who have been offended, remember the Church and its teachings are true and perfect. People are not.

re-Brent | 11:23 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Good idea, You made a point. I think I will request to have my name taken off church membership. I will spread the word. Thank you for reminding all of us what we should be doing. Feel at peace

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