Deseret News | Rocky is anti-LDS Church

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Readers' forum: Rocky is anti-LDS Church

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beliver | 9:55 a.m. Sept. 4, 2007

PEOPLE - GET A LIFE.

Yootawman | 9:56 a.m. Sept. 4, 2007

I find it pretty comical, if not ludicrous...the statemen: "Not one person moved here because it was a great place to raise a family". That is a total
"bunk".
I have heard just that comment more times than I can recall..that they chose to move here because of the wholesome atmosphere for their families.
And yes..the statement has been repeated thousands of times: "I you hate the Mormons and Salt Lake City so much...why "don't" you leave?
I seriously doubt if anyone ever twisted your arm or begged you to come here.
Face it..your goal of "chasing out the Mormons" will never come about. They founded this great city and their influence is what is keeping it so
"family friendly".
As for Rocky....just as with Bill Clinton, there were those just dumb enough to re-elect him, and many are seeing the fallacy of it.

Ben | 10:00 a.m. Sept. 4, 2007

I'm not from Utah but as far as I can see, take the LDS church out of Salt Lake City and you have Laramie Wyoming!.

Comments continue below

Matt | 10:36 a.m. Sept. 4, 2007

Come to Lawton Oklahoma and see how a Baptist controlled town with small ideas work. I would take a LDS town anytime.

How funny! | 11:10 a.m. Sept. 4, 2007

Roger B: I like your comment. Isn't funny that people can leave, but they never can leave it alone. I have never seen people more bitter or obsessed with smearing the church than those who have left. If they don't believe it, then why would they care about it so much? So funny. Whether or not you believe, hate, bad mouth, or are Rocky, there is not an organization (NGO or NPO) on the planet that does more good in the world. I am not icluding missionary work or the like in this statement. Just plain old, humanitarian goodness. It is pretty difficult to argue with that.

JIM | 11:11 a.m. Sept. 4, 2007

After being out here now for 7 yrs after coming from
Sacramento This is the place I want to be. I have found the Mormon people to be the nicest being in the world. There are a few laws that I do not agree with but I have adapted to them. I am not into politcs or religon I would like to drink 5%beer but
the law is 3.2% so I drink that. I find it so easy for people to bash the Mormons for their beliefs. I just wish more people in this world had their beliefs.

Nora | 11:13 a.m. Sept. 4, 2007

I find it really interesting that Rocky keeps after the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints. He once was a member and could not conform. Why do the people of SLC keep voting for the guy? Frankly I am glad to see him go. Lets just hope that Keith Christensen doesn't get in or we will have a Rocky Puppet.

nv | 11:30 a.m. Sept. 4, 2007

IF IT WEREN'T FOR THE MORMONS, THE CITY PROBABLY WOULDN'T EXIST. DUH.

Rory Shackleford, Esq. | 11:32 a.m. Sept. 4, 2007

I speak for everyone when I say that the Ross is the pride of the Cache Valley. We all miss him up there and wish he would come back.

Sue | 11:38 a.m. Sept. 4, 2007

Has is ever occurred to anyone that JUST PERHAPS people on the City Council are espousing their OWN views that JUST HAPPEN to conincide with those of the LDS Church and represent the majority of their constituents? You don't have to be a puppet of the LDS Church to have the same views!
Besides, what is so bad about Mormons? On the whole they are good people-nice people with good values-the type I'd like my kids and grandkids to grow up around and to be like!

Mark In Houston, TX | 11:40 a.m. Sept. 4, 2007

And I thought Houston had problems

Worst Type of Utahn | 11:54 a.m. Sept. 4, 2007

Rocky is the worst type of Utahn. He complains about the state and how repressive it is but continues to "bear the burden" of a non mormon instead of moving on or finding his nirvana.

workinglate | 12:27 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

Great discussion as to why NOT to live in SLC (which I don't).

Advice to non-Mormons: they were there first, it's their city, if you don't like their influence, move to someplace else or learn to live with it.

Advice to Mormons: if you don't like a Mormon-bashing Mayor, stop moving to the suburbs and keep the Mormon "voting block" in the city so you can elect people friendly to your cause. You can't leave the city to the "non-Mormons" and then complain that they have the gall to have a mind of their own.

This is little different than any other area - just specific to Mormons, in this case.

KH | 12:38 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

I don't see why this is such a hot topic. Rocky is gone and whether he is anti/pro-LDS doesn't matter now. Why the big debate at this point?

Rocky may not be anti-LDS but it is obvious including his name in the debate brings out the extreem views on both sides of the debate.

Going to either extreem doesn't help solve the problem. I think it's obvious neither extreem is accurate. The LDS Church and the members of the church are neither "The source of everything wrong with SLC" nor are they perfect angels. If you take the 2 extreemes I think the truth is somewhere in the middle (the same goes for most people living in SLC).

The church is a big part of SLC and it would help some people to come to grips with that. I'm not saying it would be OK for the chuch to run SLC, nor do I think the church runs SLC today. On the other hand, you can't just pretend there are no LDS people in SLC and that their votes and concerns should be discounted. You just need to learn to get along. I think Rocky's departure will help with that healing.

I don't think the Church itself controls SLC, but there is a large LDS population in SLC and though I can guarantee the church doesn't tell them how to vote, many of these people share similar views on many issues which may make it look like the church is telling them what to do (but that doesn't make it so). I don't think anyone would suggest we just disenfranchise LDS voters based on Religion. SLC is a great place to live. It doesn't matter who the Mayor is. It's the people not the Mayor that make SLC great.

england | 1:25 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

To ING
"RU LDS2?" is a bumper sticker!

Aaron | 1:33 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

This is nasty stuff. We should be better than this. Why do people feel so comfortable acting this way when it's online?

Again, I refer you to Elder Ballard's 2001 talk. No one should ever, even jokingly, suggest that non-LDS Utahns just go away if they don't like it. Why do so many of you think it's okay?

ben | 1:43 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

Coming to Utah and telling the LDS church to leave is just like going to Milwaukee and telling them stop making alcohol or to Vegas and trying to abolish gambling.

The church is here to stay. Find away to deal with it.

CHESS | 1:56 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

Karen, you might want to release that fly that flew into your mouth while you were intentionally yawning 3 days ago.

mr. right | 2:55 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

mormons never learn and thats why they're always wrong, always have been and always will be...

LDS guy who likes ROCKY | 2:58 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

Did you ever stop to think that the church has screwed up a few times, too? The church has never made a mistake, right?
Rocky is not the only one who puts his foot in his mouth. Bishop Burton has spent half his life with the taste of shoe leather in his mouth. That is part and parcel with his job. He often verbalizes things the wrong way. He is still a good, decent man.
I live in SLC. I am active LDS. I like Rocky. I voted for Frank Pignanelli last go around, but I like Rocky. I don't like his mouth, but I like the way he walks.
Note to non-SLers: I don't go around ripping on Tom Dolan cause I don't live in Sandy. Please back off. You are making fools out of yourselves.

New | 3:04 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

I lived in Philadelphia and the influence of the Amish made me leave. I moved to Atlanta and the So. Baptists drove me nuts. Now I'm in Utah and the Mormons are trying to run my life. The Rev. Jessie Jackson and the Rev. Al Sharpton are about the only ones that have the religion stuff right. I wish either of them to be the mayor of SLC.

Tyler | 3:31 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

'The church is here to stay. Find away to deal with it. ' - ben. You know what ben, one of the great things about this country is that you can worship whatever you want to, but another great thing is the seperation of church and state, whether a politition agrees or disagrees with your religion has nothing to do with the way that he runs the city, i am not LDS, but i am willing to accept the people that are, the LDS church already has control of the state to a extreme extent, the laws of our state are built around the laws of your church, i know the people of utah, both LDS and non LDS, have grown accustomed to LDS government leaders, but you should be able to get over the fact that one of them isnt.

SLaker | 3:33 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

Goodness, people, where do you get some of your ideas? I don't recall ANYONE on this board saying the LDS Church should go away or just disappear from SLC. Of course, they're not! They are a major part of the city's fabric, and certainly do a lot of good. That said, they should not be the entire city either. SLC is best served by being a diverse, secular city that happens to be the HQ of a major Religious organization. Anyone disagree?

Annoyed SLer | 3:56 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

I find it annoying that people think the LDS people should leave so the community they now live in can change to what they are used to being in. The LDS church as tried that. Heck.. they even left the COUNTRY (This valley was not part of the US when they settled it) This valley is what it is. A melting pot of MANY cultures, values and traditions. We just happen to currently have a mayor that is a proven extortionist(see past actions) when dealing with the LDS church. He seemed to want to emulate the Missouri mayor of long ago when they killed and drove the LDS from that location (which was originally a swamp). I am just glad a lawer is leaving the office of mayor, and the ACLU is loosing a pawn in that particular position. May the corrupt ACLU and Rocky just dissapear quietly... so the rest of us can get back to healing and being friends again.

Joe | 4:08 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

Why do people have the idea that the LDS Church runs everything politically? They have more integrity and better things to do than to worry about effete and impuissant matters. Many in SLC and surrounding areas should seek to relieve themselves of such paranoia and find out from actual members what it is about (and not those that have an axe to grind).

Joe | 4:10 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

I agree with Sue about people having their own ideas which doesn't make them puppets to the LDS Church or with any other Church.

Mr. X | 4:39 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

Rocky is the best thing that has happened to Salt Lake. His fight against the influence of the LDS Church has been a God send. LDS Values are not my values nor will they ever be and it is my hope that the good people of Salt Lake will always elect a leader who will stand up to the churhc in every way possible. For people to claim that Salt Lake is only good because of the church is crazy. A while back I watch a documentary on PBS about the Mormons and the best quote I heard was from a lady who was ex communicated from the church. She said "There is something evil in their niceness" Keep up the good work Rocky!

Keith V........ | 4:52 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

Wow you are an idiot. It is your type of mentality that makes the rest of us in the world believe you are part of cult. Too bad in "making this state" your church had to abandon some of it's most sacred beliefs to become a state. The bigger picture is that this country was founded on separation of church and state. Maybe you should use your own advise "if you don't like it get out" and then you could practice how you would like.

I think it's great that Rocky is taking a stand against the church - someone has to. You are very naive to think that the church doesn't control the government here - go through the state's legislature and find out what the religious beliefs of all of them are - yeah that's a surprise huh.

Maybe Rocky stands up to the church because the church is notorius for saying one thing and doing another all for their benefit - ex. main street plaza. If you don't think that is wrong then it is you that has the problem.

Jason | 4:53 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

I love Rocky the mayor of my City Salt Lake. Now why don't you worry about the Mayor in Orem. I tyhink there a few more old ladies that can't afford to water thier lawns better lock'em up.

Interesting Question | 4:54 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

If Rocky's so sour on LDS culture, why doesn't he move on?

My guess: In SLC, as a leftist, he's a big fish in a small pond. In SF, he'd be a minnow. In NYC, he'd be plankton. In Boston, he'd be a strand of DNA.

KL | 5:04 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

Come on Rocky...if you want to post just use your name. Don't go as Mr. X. I know it's you.

Move on, nothing to see | 5:27 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

It's sure a good thing that all these comments really matter and make everyone love their neighbor.

Doug Brockbank | 5:29 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

There is too much arguing in these discussions, and too little thought-provoking insights. I think we should all seek to better understand each other, and be respectful about it.

As a practicing LDS member, I would like to hear from someone who believes the Church has too much influence (whether you are LDS or not). Specifically list what those issues are, and why you are concerned that the Church is involved.

That may provide a useful discussion going forward...

Arlin | 5:30 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

Amy Bjorge
I'm really not sure how well this will come out, but I would just like to apologize for how you're being treated in this discussion. As an LDS we really have no leg to stand on to act the way some have in their public attacks on you and other irrate Non-Mormons. True I can have no say in any of their choices or lives, but hopefully I can atleast show that not every LDS that has read your comments has taken offence. I have read what you wrote, and I accept them as your opinions.

I'm sure you already understand this, but those who do react rather offensively are doing so beacuse the church is something dear to there heart, and little things like refering to Joseph Smith as Joe are very stining slaps in the face to those who believe.

On both sides in this Discussion, both on topic and off, we have certainly not been the best we could. Such is life.

Welcome to this century... | 5:41 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

Intelligent and thoughtful public figures like Rocky who are willing to stand up against the theocracy are what make the rest of the country take notice that Utah is finally being dragged (albeit kicking & screaming) out of the 19th century. He's one of the best things to happen to your image, ever. When a tourist or a local has to buy a membership and submit personal information at a local watering hole just to have a cold brew on a hot afternoon... believe me, the state needs all the help it can get. I have to practically obtain a sinner's license to order a cocktail! To suggest that Utah politics are not controlled / influenced / manipulated by the church... well that's nothing less than being an absolute head-in-the-sand Mormon apologist. Some people will just believe any old hogwash if it comes at them from the pulpit.

Texas Ute | 6:01 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

Dear nv. And that would be a good thing!

Joe | 6:04 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

Welcome . . . Actually people don't just believe whatever they hear. They think about it and prayer over it. Shame on you for taking something sacred and making it a mockery. Good practice of righteous things will never become "old school" because they come from God. You should thank your fellow Utah Mormons for having integrity. By the way, we aren't behind anyone else because we don't make it easy for you to drink and neglect your family. These are values that people live and decided to put into law. The Church is a church and is not a political institution. They have better things to do.

East Coast Opinion | 6:43 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

I lived in Utah for a little while and enjoyed my time there. I think it's amazing that something like this has even come up...the great thing about this country is that it's full of a great variety of people that may believe in different things but ultimately have the same life goals. Instead of looking at your differences, maybe you should embrace one another's strengths, especially since together they make Utah a great place to be. My life is still good where I'm at, and I'm happy; but there are many things I miss about Salt Lake...don't take it for granted and quit arguing over things that you can never convince one another of anyway since they're personal beliefs. Life is much too short not to enjoy, and that includes the people and environment that surround us.

D Hansen | 6:57 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

WHO WERE THE GENIUSES WHO ELECTED ROCKY ANDERSON MAYOR of SLC? What an embarrassment to the state and people of Utah?

He is a joke out East and such an antipathy of the Church. I guess he'll get his "reward" upstairs, particularly if he was formerly a Mormon. Get that guy out! Keep him out of the news.

So did the Prophet send a letter around to the wards asking members to support and elect this twerp? Church control? Yeah, sure. Put some long needed beauty into the City? Yes, Yes! It needs it.

Native Son

Charles | 7:25 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

Amy, we all get screened by the knuckleheads who are screening these things. I don't know you personally but after reading your posts here and on the Trib and the monthly opinions you send in, I know you by your fruits.

You claim you were misled in the history of the church. As has been stated, you just weren't very intellectual in your understanding of church history.

Your comments are as one-sided as you claim others to be. You claim to be superior in your understanding of the LDS Church and it's teachings. Your claims have been debunked for years.

It's sad that you have so much hate built up inside of you; especially since you are sharing that with your small children.

You wear your name and convictions as a badge of some sort of honor. It's just sad that you can't leave the LDS church alone.

The gospel is true no matter 'what truth' you think you have found. Move on to your greener pastures in your life.

Are you related to Rocky? You two are similar in your issues and unwillingness to take your beliefs somewhere else.

You want religion out of government? Please leave your belief and value system at your door and don't impose it on me in any way shape or form. Can you do that? If you can't, then do ask others to change who they are just to conform to your way of government thinking. Same problem as Rocky.

Economist | 8:24 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

How long would this thread be if either side had chosen not to respond to antagonistic provocations? I'm a little surprised how quickly differing views seem to evolve into hateful comments. I think we all need to improve the utilization of our time.

Brigham | 8:59 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

Wasn't SLC founded by the Mormons? From Palmyra to Kirtland to Far West to Independence to Nauvoo to SLC. Where should the next exodus be to?

Heber Stohel | 9:37 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

Amy, I just read the post where you said that you thought that Joseph Smith lied. Thank you for saying that. If someone does not believe that Joseph Smith received a revelation then they could not accept the LDS church. Instead of saying something like "I don't believe the LDS church because they practiced polygamy 100 years ago" you got right down to the bare bones. Everyone should respect that. I don't know you, but does the fact that you are not LDS make you a bad person? Not at all. LDS believe that in the Second Coming Christ will personally come to Earth and all the faithful will 'make it' and live with him. I think that there will be allot of LDS people who will be really surprised when they find that they won't. And allot of non-LDS who will. I am LDS, but I think that when that day comes, all with a good heart will 'make it'.

Ladybug | 9:38 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

Wow, what a Strange and Interesting discussion.

I like Rocky. His intentions are good, and he has done some positive things for our city (including increasing pedestrian and bicycle safety). I've always found his comments to be entertaining; now I just think it's a shame that his comments have angered so many people.

As to the many comments to this article -

1. Please do not make the all too common mistake of equating religion with morality. They are two distinct and separable things. Morality exists just fine outside of religion. Religion often clouds issues of morality. Too many people feel that their religious belief puts them in a morally superior position from which to cast aspersions on others.

2. I choose to judge others based on their actions, not their affiliation with a group. Making blanket statements about a large group of people is dangerous and often damaging. There are bound to be people in any large group who do not deserve your labels. They may even share your views, yet you alienate them right from the get-go.

3. Separation of Church and Politics - Hallelujah! Church members look to their leaders for personal guidance. Throwing any messages that can be construed as political into that relationship is entirely inappropriate.

Thanks for listening.

To Amy Bjorge | 9:51 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

How much kinder are you now that you chose a new path? Do you teach tolerance & love? Is your life filled with happiness?

NLS | 9:56 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

There's a timeless phrase within Mormon communitees which applies to exmos, "You can leave the church but you cannot leave the church alone." That is because they are inherently and subconciously miserable for having left the church; "Misery loves company!" This is especially true of Rocky Anderson, the man who "Hits the nail squarely on the thumb! OUCH!!!!

To Amy Bjorge | 10:07 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

Amy come to the blog titled;
Mountain Meadows: Church asked to turn over site, take names off records

The truth is more important than blind faith and having the original photo reprints of "The Book of Mormon" of 1830 and "Pearl of Great Price" from 1851, I'll debate any of these head cases here!

Arguments that side step the facts, are hardly the work of intellectuals.

Rocky is serving Saints and Gentiles equally, is that a problem and should all of those high tech business leave?

MIB

hi | 11:49 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

i watched the hannity debate and i thought that rocky stuck to the relevant points of the discussion and avoided name calling and criticism of hannity personally. Hannity, on the other hand, was not quite so civil in the debate, frequently criticizing rocky personally.

not sure the above point is all that relevant to this latest discussion. but i am lds, and although i disagree with rocky most of the time, i have to say i was impressed by his debate with hannity.

Utahn born and raised | 11:59 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

This country was founded because a lot of people got sick of the bigotry they encountered in Europe because of their religion. America's for religious toleration. So tolerate some religion. You're in Utah! What is Utah, and especially Salt Lake City, known for but the Mormon temple in the middle of the capital and also of course our slopes and Arches National Park. Everyone can just live with each other. And if you can tolerate all the Mormons maybe then you can tolerate all the Muslims who haven't done anything wrong. And then maybe everyone in the Middle East might get the point and wow! world peace. But seriously Rocky is an idiot and only makes the news when he protests something or someone. Do you see a trend? He lives and dies with the press he gets and he needs to realize that people are sick of his stupidity. Wait til you're out of office and you're not representing a city to make idiotic comments. You can anything you like once you don't represent anyone but then no one will care what you say now will they?...

Marilyn in Seattle | 12:32 a.m. Sept. 5, 2007

To the poster of "To Amy Bjorge" at 9:51 this evening, your comments say it all in two very succinct lines, BUT I would remove Amy's name and post this comment to all of us--all who are reading and blogging here.

"How kind are you to others whether they are like you or have differences of opinion? Do you teach tolerance & love? Is your life filled with happiness?"

Well said, To Amy Bjorge.

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